#indieweb 2024-09-03

2024-09-03 UTC
thegreekgeek_, fluffy, Kaguneh, [snarfed], cuibonobo, [snarfed]1, robotsnowfall, ren and athan joined the channel
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capjamesg[d] [tantek]++
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Loqi [tantek] has 25 karma in this channel over the last year (122 in all channels)
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[tantek] capjamesg[d] except now I'm fully replicating the weird Mastodon accept my post but not show it problem
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[Murray] Thanks schmarty 😄 I'm getting there; so far getting away from React has massively simplified things, but I hit search yesterday and that is... a lot more complex 😅
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[KevinMarks] Charlie's mastodon profile is rather indieweb
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[KevinMarks] https://chat-uploads.indieweb.org/files/2024/09/indieweb-20240903-124300-screenshot_20240903-144212.png
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[tantek] Looks like most of my recent posts were being dropped on the floor by Mastodon instances despite them confirming receiving them via Bridgy Fed. Issue tracking them is here: https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy-fed/issues/884
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Loqi [preview] [snarfed] #884 Some posts on tantek.com delivered but not visible in Mastodon
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[tantek] I haven't figured out what in particular makes Mastodon quietly drop posts but I think it may have to do with length, or number of links, or maybe number of hashtags or some combination thereof
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[snarfed] yup, reasonable guesses. sigh
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[snarfed] [tantek] one next step could be to look at your non-Mastodon fediverse followers and see whether their instances show these posts
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[tantek] I don't know how to find out who are my non-Mastodon fediverse followers
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[tantek] should I file a feature request for enhancing https://fed.brid.gy/web/tantek.com/followers with icons for what software they are using? Mastodon, Misskey, BridgyFed, etc.?
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pcarrier [tantek]: heyo
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pcarrier [tantek]: gotosocial fediverse follower :)
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[tantek] pcarrier, which of my posts did you see in the past week?
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pcarrier [tantek]: unfortunately just started following you. "Adventures in IndieWeb / ActivityPub (AP) bridging" went through
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[tantek] right, that's the one that went thru on Mastodon also
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pcarrier hmmm if I hit "toots and replies" in semaphore.social (my client) it also shows "✏️ I want the Read Write Suggest-Edit Accept-Edit Update Web."
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[snarfed] pcarrier looks like you're on gotosocial. useful data point that your instance shows tantek's latest post!
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pcarrier and if I hit "load more" I get "All setup here at IndieWebCamp Portland!"
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pcarrier nothing in-between
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[snarfed] [tantek] software icons for followers is a good feature request! nontrivial, since I'd need to figure out how to sniff and discover each instance's software, but doable
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[snarfed] in the meantime you can open a handful of them manually and look at their software yourself
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pcarrier [snarfed]: it's visible in the user-agent
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[snarfed] sometimes! but not always
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[snarfed] and there are dozens of fediverse servers, with all sorts of different user-agent syntax, there's no single standard format that's easily parseable across them
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[snarfed] nodeinfo will generally be easier, even if it costs an outbound HTTP request
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pcarrier [snarfed]: one hour of logs on rrier.fr : https://srv.us/j7on5gwjaj2u4qountr7fcoogwisezdv
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pcarrier oh I didn't know there was an endpoint for that
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pcarrier is there a high-level document covering all the fundamentals of the fediverse? I'd really like to make a bot
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[snarfed] there are lots! eg https://activitypub.academy/
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[tantek] [snarfed] I thought there was a site like fedi info or something that was querying servers out there and tallying up software stats. So there's a way to do it. Maybe this should be a #indieweb-dev thread tho
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[tantek] Oooh: pcarrier said: « and if I hit "load more" I get "All setup here at IndieWebCamp Portland!"] » <-- that implies there's a problem at Bridgy Fed, not Mastodon. Where / How is gotosocial doing its "load more"?
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[schmarty] tantek: seems like gotosocial is a mastodon instance (or similar). "load more" is probably just a feature for paging through whatever posts gotosocial knows about already. mastodon doesn't actually ask your "outbox" for more posts.
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[schmarty] oop my bad. gotosocial is its own software. i think the issue still stands - most software doesn't look at outboxes.
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[tantek] [schmarty] except pcarrier is running his own gotosocial so it couldn't have known about any of my posts already before he followed me.
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[schmarty] i guess i am not clear on the timeline. i wonder if your attempts to re-push or push edits happened since then?
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[tantek] that's a good question. IDK if updates get sent to new followers or only people who followed you as of the time of the original post
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[mattl] Any interest in an East Coast Homebrew Website Club?
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[snarfed] [tantek] pcarrier's instance could have known about your previous posts before he followed you, he or someone else could have entered one of your post URLs (either bare or BF-wrapped) into his instance's search box
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[tantek] "could have known about your previous posts before he followed you" <-- how? there are no other users on that instance
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[snarfed] right. like I said, he could have searched for it...or he saw a reply to it in his feed, or browsed to it (through his instance's UI) some other way
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[snarfed] fediverse servers fetch remote posts for all sorts of reasons, beyond just getting them delivered due to a follow
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[tantek] so would searching for my other permalinks then "repair" the situation and have them show up in his feed?
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[schmarty] mattl: definitely interested!
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[tantek] or frankly, would searching for my other permalinks in a Mastodon instance "repair" that instance and have them show up in my profile on that server as well?
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[snarfed] probably! but like you said, this clod start behavior, and profile timelines that aren't contiguous, is kind of expected behavior in the fediverse, not something you "fix"
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[snarfed] the issue with posts not showing up in Mastodon is something else, since those instances already had people following you
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[tantek] I mean if that's the workaround then I guess I have to manually "search" for my post permalink in Mastodon everytime I publish
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[tantek] this is an easy test
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[snarfed] no, almost certainly not
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[snarfed] yes it is
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[tantek] searching for https://tantek.com/2024/245/t1/read-write-suggest-edit-web in w3c.social does not show any results and does NOT cause it to magically start appearing in my profile there: https://w3c.social/@tantek.com@tantek.com
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Loqi [preview] [Tantek Çelik] ✏️ I want the Read Write Suggest-Edit Accept-Edit Update Web. The consumer Infinite Scroll Web leaves us feeling empty. Too few of us participate in the Read Write Web, whether with personal sites or Wikipedia. A week ago when we wrapped up #I...
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[snarfed] yeah makes sense
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[snarfed] oh actually that wouldn't anyway, you don't have a rel=alternate type=activity+json link to the BF URL, https://fed.brid.gy/docs#searchable
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[mattl] [schmarty] Okay, two of us is enough to get a page started.
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[snarfed] let's try https://fed.brid.gy/r/https://tantek.com/2024/245/t1/read-write-suggest-edit-web
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[snarfed] yeah searching for that on indieweb.social doesn't find it either
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[snarfed] so yeah, consistent so far, this is an odd Mastodon issue
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[snarfed] (possibly shared by some other fediverse servers, but definitely not all)
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[tantek] no dice on w3c.social either with that attempt, though the search progress bar had the weird iMessage behavior of progressing nearly all the way to the right and then pausing for many seconds
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[tantek] and then showing no results found
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[tantek] do people on Mastodon use the CW disclosure trick for joke : punchline?
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[tantek] do we need explicit support for joke posts so the reader does not see the "answer" until they explicitly choose to look at it?
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pcarrier I haven't seen it used for a joke, but I've seen it used excessively. did so myself today.
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pcarrier by "excessively" I mean to help you decide if you want to invest your attention on the rest of the post, not to avoid triggering anybody
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[tantek] sure, summary/details UX is a good use of the original property meanings of summary and content
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pcarrier is that what it is? semaphore.social calls it (Add|Remove) content warning
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[tantek] yeah Mastodon misused summary/content for "content warning" UX and now we're kinda maybe stuck with that intepretation 😕
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[mattl] I’ve never used CW for a joke.
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pcarrier but yeah it's totally a <details><summary></summary></details>
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "IndieWeb Movie Club August 2024 Round Up (The Matrix)" https://marksuth.dev/posts/2024/09/indieweb-movie-club-august-2024-round-up-the-matrix
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[KevinMarks] I mapped it to details/summary in my h-feed adaptor way back
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[tantek] wondering if BridgyFed to Bluesky is more reliable than Mastodon
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aaronpk given that it only has to talk to one piece of software rather than dozens, probably
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[tantek] I mean, the problem here is with the one (dominant) piece of software
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aaronpk heh
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jimw which reminds me that i should figure out why my tags aren't working on Bluesky posts even though I was pretty sure I was generating the facets correctly.
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[tantek] ugh
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[tantek] what is a facet
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "facet" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "facet is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[tantek] or maybe that's better for #indieweb-dev
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jimw indeed.
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[tantek] is anyone here using Bridgy Fed with a static site? I don't see any particular how to for "static" or e.g. GitHub Pages on https://fed.brid.gy/docs
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[schmarty] tantek: my site probably qualifies for this? i'm not exactly sure what to document, though. i followed the http://fed.brid.gy docs for setting up some redirects on my server, make sure to add a syndication link to http://fed.brid.gy in posts i want to go there, and my builder pings http://fed.brid.gy as part of sending webmentions.
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[tantek] "what to document" -> perhaps stub a "How to setup with a static site" subsection on https://indieweb.org/Bridgy_Fed with some of the steps you took?
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[tantek] the word "static" does not exist on the /Bridgy_Fed page currently
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[tantek] good to know it's at least doable [schmarty]
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to2ds I experimented with BF from static pages, but could never get my replies working.
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to2ds All in all, BF is really cool software!
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[snarfed] Bridgy Fed doesn't care if your site is static or "dynamic," you integrate the same way
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[snarfed] thanks to2ds!
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[tantek] [snarfed] I think the challenge is not all static site setup allow "easy" redirects
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[tantek] e.g. has anyone got it working with GH pages?
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[snarfed] the redirects, true! those can be tricky for dynamic sites too. fortunately they're not required, you only need to set them up if you want your address to be @[domain] instead of @web.brid.gy
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[snarfed] I have basic redirect setup docs for a number of common web servers, https://fed.brid.gy/docs#fediverse-enhanced , but I doubt I'd add and maintain many more
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[tantek] [snarfed] that's why I'm asking for help with adding docs incrementally to /Bridgy_Fed on the wiki, so that eventually it may be in a "complete" enough form to add as a PR to the official docs
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[snarfed] true! docs on the wiki may make more sense. I'm still pretty unlikely to take on the burden of maintaining more instructions in BF's docs themselves for arbitrary software that I don't use or know, but wiki sounds good!
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[tantek] right, wiki as a workspace for getting things "good enough" to more formally publish, and then hopefully maintain by the community
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