#indieweb 2024-12-10

2024-12-10 UTC
troojg, cambridgeport90 and aldur42 joined the channel
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Kolev
capjamesg[d]++
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Loqi
capjamesg[d] has 73 karma in this channel over the last year (214 in all channels)
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Moult
what's Aurora?
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Kolev
Moult, Aurora is used to generate <https://jamesg.blog/>.
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Kolev
Yep!
bterry, aldur427, rvalue, eitilt, klymilark and shoesNsocks joined the channel
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[tantek]
Anyone have a gift for today's IndieWeb Gift Calendar?
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Moult
[tantek]: does a ttyrec player count?
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[tantek]
what is the gift calendar?
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Loqi
🎁 Welcome to the IndieWeb Gift Calendar! The 2024 IndieWeb Gift Calendar is the 8th annual group effort to gift (ship) one or more IndieWeb-related thing(s) each day of December that others can use to improve their IndieWeb experience https://indieweb.org/gift_calendar
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[tantek]
that's the rough description, more criteria on the page
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[tantek]
in general, can someone use it as is to improve their personal website and or IndieWeb experience like reading?
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Moult
if people like playing back ttyrecs, yes >:)
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[tantek]
what is a ttyrec?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "ttyrec" yet. Would you like to create it?_B (Or just say "ttyrec is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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Moult
it's a recording of stuff done in a terminal
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Moult
[tantek]: so if you want to show someone how to do something in a terminal, you can record it and send them a ttyrec, they can then play it back. it's the raw terminal output so it can be heavily compressed and is much lighter than a video. players can also play it back write-by-write (i.e. frame by frame)
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[tantek]
Moult it sounds like it could be a variant of a video or animated gif type post!
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Kolev
Moult, you mean Asciinema?
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Moult
Kolev: it's a predecessor to asciinema
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Kolev
Moult, ah.
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Moult
Kolev: i believe asciinema is a bit heavier but also has a few more features.
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[tantek]
Moult, do you have ttyrec posts on your personal site?
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[tantek]
if so, could be worth creating a page about it
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[mattl]
I’d love to see a GIF
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Kolev
Once I get a site running on Haunt, I'll make /Haunt.
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Moult
https://docs.asciinema.org/manual/asciicast/v2/#asciicast-v2 that's the asciicast format, basically it uses json for data, and includes headers like environment, terminal size, etc. but given it's json, it's pretty heavy
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Moult
in contrast ttyrec is just a 12 bytes of header including a timestamp and chunk length, then the raw chunk.
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Moult
but ttyrec doesn't have data like terminal size, encoding, etc
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Moult
[tantek]: i don't, i just wrote a ttyrec player yesterday for the nethack community
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Moult
[tantek]: would be pretty straightforward to write a few words and a screenshot and publish the code
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[mattl]
Is asciicast actually in ASCII or does it support UTF-8?
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Moult
[mattl]: it's utf-8 encoded json
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Loqi
friendly reminder Moult, would you mind moving this more technical conversation (headers, JSON) to #indieweb-dev? thanks!
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Moult
[tantek]: alternatively there's a post about gemini which i did about a week back
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[tantek]
Yes details of formats are better in #indieweb-dev
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[tantek]
No worries! Check out the examples on the gift calendar page, like the different types of gifts indicated by the list of emojis. That should help provide guidance for a day in the future!
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[tantek]
Moult++ good post — and certainly more written for a #indieweb-dev audience which is great! I think we should cite it as a recent post on our Gemini page
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Loqi
Moult has 1 karma over the last year
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capjamesg[d]
[tantek] That's a good question!
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capjamesg[d]
I have had a name collision or two in my URLs.
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capjamesg[d]
Uusally, if a category already exists I will name a static page something different.
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capjamesg[d]
That's why my search page is on /search-pages/. /search/ is my category page of search pages.
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capjamesg[d]
I should probably have a system that tells me if a slug is already assigned.
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Loqi
I agree
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Moult
ttyrec player app: gemini://thinkmoult.com/pyttyplay-nethack-player.gmi
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[tantek]
capjamesg[d], I do like that your category pages are at top level, rather inside a "categories" or "tags" folder
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[tantek]
I wonder if there's a way to combine the two, e.g. show the static page content and then list the "Posts about this topic" below them!
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[tantek]
That way you never have to worry about collisions, instead, each top level page allows for both
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[tantek]
What are recommendations?
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Loqi
recommendations are a list or other collection of things, places, and/or experiences that are recommended by someone or a group, on personal websites and on a few silos https://indieweb.org/recommendations
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[tantek]
^ I started that wiki page yesterday based on discussions at IWC SD, as my gift for the day for the gift calendar. Hope to expand it some more today based on the notes
eitilt, [benatwork] and klymilark joined the channel
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nemonical
I posted my first post today! https://nemonical.art/2024/12/10/my-first-post/
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nemonical
I didn't just say that I posted my first post, I did actually make something, I promise
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[mattl]
Interesting theme. You might want to make links a different color and bold to make them easier to read. Monospace fonts are very hard to read on a small screen.
gRegor and bret joined the channel
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gRegor
[tantek]++
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Loqi
[tantek] has 26 karma in this channel over the last year (141 in all channels)
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gRegor
I added some emojis to my food and drink recommendations, fixed a missing link: https://gregorlove.com/lists/food-and-drink/
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[tantek]
ooh the emojis are a really nice touch
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[tantek]
ok this makes me think I need to come up with a canonical "Foursquare venue category" -> emoji mapping
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GWG
I have to review my venue category list
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GWG
And pages for them
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gRegor
[tantek], I think I recall a post you wrote about using emojis, though I think it was a big more granular, like to indicate if a place had vegan, vegetarian, gluten free, etc.
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gRegor
*bit more
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Loqi
[preview] [Tantek Çelik] 🌱 I have long been a fan of @Foursquare.com and @Swarmapp.com, having created many venues, posted many tips, and (checks profile) over 45,000 checkins. I recently joined @happycow.net and before I start posting new vegan (friendly) venues or revie...
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[tantek]
🫗 for breakfastandcoffee site 😔
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[tantek]
need to update that post
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[tantek]
gRegor, ah those were emojis for individual menu items
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gRegor
Yeah. I'm going to borrow that emoji for plant-based for another recommendation
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[tantek]
Post updated. Thanks for the heads-up
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[mattl]
[tantek] a version of that which includes some notion of how well the place handles cross contamination stuff too would be great for me.
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Kolev
gRegor, plant-based?
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Kolev
I'm plant-based! 😀
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[tantek]
[mattl] I don't think I would rely on any 3rd party claims about how any restaurant handles cross contamination. it's too much a mix of unreliable vs risky
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[tantek]
also, that requires some work/research for coming up with a taxonomy of how much a restaurant keeps things separate
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[tantek]
like do they have two different kitchens, two different ovens / sets of dishes and cutlery, etc.
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gRegor
Kolev, ah, well if you're ever in Chicago, Palm Springs, or Glendale, CO, I have a recommendation on https://gregorlove.com/lists/food-and-drink/ :)
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Kolev
gRegor, nice! Thank you.
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[mattl]
[tantek] oh I’m thinking more from the perspective of customers. I wish I could markup places on Swarm that have a separate fryer for veggie stuff.
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Kolev
Wow, how many veg folk do we have here?
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[tantek]
Kolev, quite a few, also we have a strong encouragement to cater IndieWebCamp events vegetarian by default. It's a bit buried but here: https://indieweb.org/IndieWebCamp_Organizing#Confirm_Catering
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Kolev
Very nice!
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[tantek]
[mattl] I think that's review material frankly, because multiply that (separate fryer, or over, etc.) across all the different allergens listed in my blog post
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[tantek]
or oven*
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[tantek]
fryer, pans, ovens etc.
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[aciccarello]
Threads takes an important baby step toward true fediverse integration - The Verge https://www.theverge.com/2024/12/4/24313229/threads-follow-fediverse-mastodon-users-post-notifications
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[aciccarello]
Has anyone tried following a bridge fed account on threads?
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[tantek]
^ going to suggest any debugging of that go to #indieweb-dev
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[tantek]
aciccarello a few days before IWC SD a few of us tried to get it working at it sorta works in Threads on desktop web, but not really in the mobile native apps. More in chat archives
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[tantek]
I gave up trying to create a "follow me on Threads" hyperlink because it only worked in desktop web, not in mobile web nor mobile native apps
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[tantek]
on the venues and emojis topic: could someone explain to me the difference between a "cafe" and a "coffee shop"? either in general or in the world of Foursquare/Swarm in particular
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[aciccarello]
Oh, I'll check the archives then
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[tantek]
here's a pointer for a bunch of the debugging / trial & error: https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/2024-12-05#t1733436605319800
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Loqi
[preview] [[tantek]] Btw just for the logs, current behavior I.e. when I tap on one of those links here in iOS Slack from [mattl] or the one snarfed made for my profile, it actually does open the Threads app (which I'm logged into) which then however bounces me to my ext...
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[aciccarello]
As far as coffee shop vs cafe, I use them interchangeably. But if I were to define a difference I'd say one is defined by selling coffee which may or may not have seating, the other is about a place to enjoy coffee or pastries, which doesn't sound very different. 😂
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gRegor
I feel like a cafe is more likely to have some sandwiches and other light food. A coffee shop usually only has coffee, tea, maybe some pastries.
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Zegnat
Wikipedia compares coffee shop to a diner in the US. And of course also points out the completely different connotation in the Netherlands (which leads to me almost never using the term) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffee_shop
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capjamesg[d]
I love diners.
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GWG
I should visit a diner
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Loqi
yea!
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[aciccarello]
I love the style of the old diners on the east coast
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[aciccarello]
I remember listening to the juke boxes in this one https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O%27Rourke%27s_Diner
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Loqi
[preview] O'Rourke's Diner
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[aciccarello]
Sorry, getting off topic
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[tantek]
aciccarello swap your #indieweb-cafe and #indieweb topics 😆
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[aciccarello]
Regarding POSSE reviews, I did that for a couple of my experimental review posts: https://www.ciccarello.me/posts/2024/04/19/pier-view-coffee/
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[tantek]
Zegnat, indeed I also associate "coffee shop" in the US as implying something diner-like in a very classic counter plus barstools plus drip coffee plus slices of baked goods and at least some hot food
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Kolev
[tantek], I associate a diner as having more food than a coffee shop.
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[tantek]
Oh and bills that have a very specific size and look that the server has scribbled your order and the total on, usually double underlined, maybe with a smiley if they liked you
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[aciccarello]
Same, I associate diners more with breakfast foods like eggs
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[tantek]
Kolev, I would agree that something that self-labels as a diner is expected to have more food options than a coffee shop
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[aciccarello]
Coffee shops in my mind usually have 50% more of the menu being beverages
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Kolev
Also, I love savory breakfast foods so much. I had tofu scramble and hash browns for dinner last night.
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[tantek]
I want a category name that is specifically for a place that makes coffee drinks and the only food options are either premade pastries / baked goods from somewhere else, with maybe an exception for "small assembly" like bagels and smoothies
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[tantek]
To me "coffee shop" does not capture that. Nor does "cafe". Both imply far more food options IMO
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[tantek]
I'm leaning a bit towards "coffee house" for the thing I described
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[tantek]
Well great, Wikipedia starts the /coffeehouse page with "A coffeehouse, coffee shop, or café" 🫠
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[mattl]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veggie_Galaxy is a favorite of many a W3C meeting from the era where they were at MIT. I used to live behind this place and put on 40lbs.
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Zegnat
Mmm, there is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konditorei for a place that sells pastries / baked goods and often has the option to get simple drinks like coffee. But that maybe does not fit [tantek]’s description as they would not get the goods from somewhere else (most of the time)
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capjamesg[d]
I have been in the Demel Konditorei in Austria!
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capjamesg[d]
I thought that meta image looked familiar.
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capjamesg[d]
I had a good cake there.
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gRegor
[tantek], how would you classify Dark Horse Coffee that we went to? I'd say coffee shop, since primarily drinks, but they have some pastries
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gRegor
I think Dark Horse might actually have like one breakfast sandwich they make too, though I think it's a pre-made thing they heat up (haven't tried it yet). Which is similar to a Starbucks to me, but with better coffee :)
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[snarfed]
#indieweb-random? #indieweb-cafe?
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capjamesg[d]
Let's move to the cafe for this.
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capjamesg[d]
[snarfed]++
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Loqi
[snarfed] has 28 karma in this channel over the last year (92 in all channels)
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capjamesg[d]
I love that we have a channel with the name cafe in it and there's spillover into the main channel 😂
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gRegor
I guess, the topic is category names for /recommendations or /review
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gRegor
Just using a recent real world example
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gRegor
naming_is_hard++
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Loqi
naming_is_hard has 1 karma over the last year
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[tantek]
Yes the context is replacing Foursquare venue categories with better definitions as we move venue recommendations to our own sites, literally continuing from the weekend
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[tantek]
gRegor I saw "espresso bar" mentioned in the Wikipedia article so I would say that fits Dark Horse Coffee
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[tantek]
Does OpenStreetMaps have a taxonomy for things like this that we can reuse or take inspiration from?
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Zegnat
OSM splits amenity and cuisine into separate taxonomies. So they might use two tags: amenity=cafe + cuisine=coffee_shop (cf. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Coffee)
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Zegnat
E.g. you could have a cuisine=burger and combine it with either amenity=fast_food or amenity=restaurant
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[lazcorp]
The trouble is that the different types of food & drink establishments are very much embedded in individual cultures, so much so that creating a single taxonomy is a nightmare
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[lazcorp]
The British Tearoom/Teahouse is "a small room or restaurant where beverages and light meals are served, often having a sedate or subdued atmosphere" [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teahouse]
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[lazcorp]
But even then the food can range from a scone (with jam and cream) to afternoon tea or high tea
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[lazcorp]
[or even "the finest wines known to humanity"]
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[lazcorp]
Similarly a cafe can range from a 'caff' (serving full English breakfast with a cup of tea etc) to a 'café' (serving coffee and pastries) purely depending on whether you pronounce the second syllable
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[lazcorp]
(sorry, just saw I should have posted this in the cafe channel)
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capjamesg[d]
I love tea rooms.
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Kolev
capjamesg[d], I went to a tea room a few days ago. White tea. So good.
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[lazcorp]
@Kolev "white" tea? Dare I ask what that is?
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Kolev
[lazcorp], minimally processed tea leaves.
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capjamesg[d]
Oh, I haven't had white tea.
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capjamesg[d]
I love tea.
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capjamesg[d]
Especially the really floral ones.
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gRegor
taxonomy is on topic
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Kolev
capjamesg[d], tangerine blossom red (black) tea is great.
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gRegor
beverage preferences is random or cafe :)
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capjamesg[d]
Kolev let's chat in #indieweb-chat.
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capjamesg[d]
I mean indieweb-cafe.
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Kolev
I'll probably get my own domain by January.