#indieweb 2025-02-17

2025-02-17 UTC
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[Joe_Crawford] capjamesg[d]++ https://xoxo.zone/@artlung/114016289823324981
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Loqi capjamesg[d] has 80 karma in this channel over the last year (216 in all channels)
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[morganm] capjamesg[d]++
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Loqi capjamesg[d] has 81 karma in this channel over the last year (217 in all channels)
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GWG I was trying to decide if I should resume syndication to the site formerly known as Twitter
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GWG If I don't get backfeed is it worth it
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[tantek] GWG, in general I have decided no.
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[tantek] The only things I selectively syndicate to Twitter now are posts that are specifically about the indieweb and doing things in indieweb ways, only because I hope there is a chance of reaching the few folks I know still reading there and helping them leave Twitter
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GWG [tantek]: I am again looking for more places to engage. I'm trying to pivot a bit, but I'd need to build some stuff. I have publishing stable, I want to look into reading
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GWG I have not figured out what to do about Mastodon either
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[tantek] GWG, think about what kinds of places you like to engage in-person. The vibes you look for and the vibes you avoid.
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[tantek] Keep those values in mind, then assess the vibe of any online place similarly, and whether you really want anything you do to be affiliated with that place or not
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GWG [tantek]: Places have a tendency to change quickly
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[tantek] Note: it has nothing to do with the size of the place
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[tantek] you can't count on change. you can only assess the current state.
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[Joe_Crawford] On the theory that I might get *someone* to engage with and learn about IndieWeb and San Diego when I announced IWC San Diego I did post to Twitter. But without actually putting money into that bad place I don't believe there's enough casual engagement to discover something indieweb or san diego to matter.
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[tantek] and yes, if things change in the future in a bad way, unaligned with your values, you should leave
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[Joe_Crawford] But also, so many people I followed there I moved my follow of them to their website, their rss, their newsletter, mastodon, bluesky, instagram.
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[tantek] [Joe_Crawford] for me, there is the side effect of very high organic search rankings when I post there
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GWG I'm not worried about size... I want to decide where I might start reading posts again outside of reading people's websites... which is a small group
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[Joe_Crawford] I am down from following about 1100 accounts there and now down at 57.
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[Joe_Crawford] Mostly journalists and public entities.
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[Joe_Crawford] Which is to say local emergency services and political figures, some of whom are moving to bluesky.
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[tantek] so it's not just people on Twitter, it's Google searches
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[tantek] at least for me, searches for T or my given name provide one of my recent IndieWeb related tweets as a search preview in the top 5 results
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GWG I've been trying to move things to other services that I used to enjoy following.
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[tantek] that's a good way of thinking about it
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GWG I still haven't figured out how to read Mastodon. I'm technically integrated into it, but I've never done anything reading wise
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[morganm] Sometimes I get the feeling that many of us here are very online and have been online long enough to see things rise and fall, sort of a informed jadedness, and Tantek is like a titan leading us by example co-existing amongst all this stuff
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[morganm] I thought about my start on the web in 1998 with a Gateway 2000 tower computer, 56k , everyone had to get off the phone at home to check out an encylopedia article or something
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[morganm] Times moving fast, platforms changing a lot
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GWG [tantek] does have a perspective I value
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[tantek] the web at 56k was rough tbh
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aaronpk Better be really sure that's the link you want to click on
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[tantek] 👀
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[tantek] oh right lol the time to load a link being so long, each click was a time-costly action 😂
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carrvo I'm a bit different in that regard: I value diversity in a particular way where I seek out people that specifically disalign with my values.
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carrvo Not saying you should do the same (there is a lot to be said with finding like-minded people) but I generally caution against narrowing your view when you go too far away from "outsiders".
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carrvo I'm missing a word to describe it. Can't think of it right now.
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carrvo [tantek]++ I agree that you have a valuable perspective! (Though not the only one.)
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Loqi [tantek] has 23 karma in this channel over the last year (147 in all channels)
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bossy @morganm, informed jadedness is definitely how I feel about the Internet. I also had a Gateway 2000.
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[KevinMarks] I X-d out my profile pic on X and went private, so that deters me when I'm tempted to post there
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bossy The internet is too structured for my liking now. It's kind of like how high streets here in the UK are just full of the same chains, instead of lots of interesting independent shops. You go to any town centre and it kind of looks the same and the experience is the same. That's how the internet feels to me now.
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capjamesg[d] I'm thinking about starting a webring for sites that publish poetry / stories.
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[Jo] good idea!
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[Jo] one i know about is the poetry line of the https://gusbus.space/smallweb-subway/
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capjamesg[d] Oooh! Interesting!
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[Murray] absolutely love the implications of "the poetry line of the small web subway" 😄 cool idea
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[Jo] its a great project! if youre on two lines the lines intersect at your station :3
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doesnm Smallweb Subway? Like Nightfall Express?
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[Jo] well, thats a protocol isnt it? this is just a webring
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doesnm nightfall express has "webring" in categories
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[Jo] oh! didnt know that
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[Sophia_wood] [Jo] that is such a cool site! thanks for sharing.
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leflame Can I see it, I just joined
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[Jo] also welcome
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Lars-Christian @bossy Am aware DRM is mostly a publisher req. I think encouraging people to avoid it where possible is a small step in the direction of change for the better :)
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bossy Unless you want to only read very old books or self published books, only way of avoiding DRM is to crack it.
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bossy Or buy printed books.
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carrvo DRM, I believe, was invented to deal with copyright violations by pirating. So "avoiding it" is maybe not very inviting overall. But encouraging people to be aware of the consequences and evaluate whether it fits their needs is good.
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[qubyte] This prompted me to un-drm a bunch of kindle books to calibre. Not for sharing. I just don’t want Amazon to decide they can take the books I paid for away.
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[qubyte] These days I mostly read physical print books, but now and then it’s impractical. I removed the DRM from most of my kindle books years ago, so thankfully there were only three to do.
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bossy Yes I am not interesting in sharing but I am interested in being able to buy a different e-reader and read books I’ve already bought on it.
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Halian needs to download and crack his Amazon books
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Lars-Christian " encouraging people to be aware of the consequences and evaluate whether it fits their needs is good" yeah this was the point I was trying to get across
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Lars-Christian And my DRM talk all originated from Amazon now shutting down the option to sideload books you've bought onto a Kindle (which made it easier to remove the DRM)
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Lars-Christian @Halian remember to do it within the next 8 days!
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Halian I'm doing it now :3
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Lars-Christian Good!
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Halian https://www.cloudwards.net/remove-drm-from-kindle-books/
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Lars-Christian @bossy that's also my motivation. We should be free to read books we buy wherever we want. Otherwise it's just renting.
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Lars-Christian Amazon shutting that feature down was the kick in the ass I needed to finally download and remove the DRM for the 150 or so books I've bought from Amazon
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carrvo bossy, Lars-Christian: I can emphasize with the sentiment (I have often found myself in the same position). Unfortunately from a social perspective it is not possible to differentiate between those not interested in sharing and those that will.
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carrvo Not trying to dissuade you, just hoping to bring a better understanding of why businesses are making you life more difficult.
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[snarfed] great conversation!...but doesn't seem directly indieweb relevant? let's maybe take it to #indieweb-random?
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bossy I understand why they make it difficult and I kind of understand DRM existing to be honest. I think it's telling however how Amazon go to extra lengths and I think it's probably because they have the biggest potential vendor lock-in from all of the e-reading options. There are more and more e-readers, all as good as Kindle (if not better), they don't want people jumping ship. The other vendors have 'normal' DRM, I'll be using them from now one until something el
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bossy There needs to be some sort of universal DRM transfer option, so just say I move e-reader vendor, I can transfer (not copy) my purchases over from one account to another, but there is no way in hell people like kindle would support such a thing. They want everyone stuck with Amazon forever.
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bossy That is how these companies would show they are about protecting copyright and not just trying to lock people in.
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carrvo Transfer is a great point!
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gRegor Agreed, better topic for #indieweb-random
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