#indieweb 2025-10-29

2025-10-29 UTC
ttybitnik, claudinec and Xe joined the channel
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[morganm] Text only humor sometimes falls flat but hey everyone
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[morganm] I made a post on Linkedin about AI
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[morganm] (Its critical of AI, and slightly gently roasts my employer-mandated education about the topic)
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[morganm] If Indieweb was an RPG Game what kind of event or potion or boss battle would this be
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[morganm] (Im working it into a blog post now)
Xe, claudinec, [Al_Abut]1, bterry1, jjuran_, dusted__, syl, rhiaro, [Al_Abut], [artlung]1, thegreekgeek__, pelegreno, emilknievel4, strugee_, claudine, marc_in_-, oodani, lanodan, Lars-Christian, srxl, jak2k, cotsuka, Alison_, sp1ff, cotsuka_, powerLien, jboy, _justin_kelly71, bret, lackl, barnaby, Guest6 and doesnm joined the channel
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[tantek] This is an interesting indieweb “viewer” challenge and I wonder if anyone else has run into it (and dug into reasons why, I have some theories) https://norcal.social/@usefulchickadee/115453366599331571 (via #indieweb-stream )
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jeremycherfas I've run into objections to my objections to WhatsApp and FB, with so far two successful conversions to Signal. I think there is an issue with "usability" How do I like a photo of your kitten on your website? And if I can't like it, what's the point.
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[Murray] ^ I feel like this is a big issue, as is the "I want to add this to my feed, so I can see pictures when I'm scrolling later/as they arrive" angle. RSS is the answer there, but lets be honest, it's never delivered the kind of UX that Instagram or TikTok has
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jeremycherfas Right. Following RSS is always going to be another struggle for most people. I haven't yet got into pixelfed, but that could be possible. Also POSSE to ther places.
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[tantek] I think Sunlit tries to address the scrolling photos use case
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[tantek] Also re: “If I can’t like it, then what’s the point?” 😂 meant sarcastically I’m sure but has a kernel of truth to it. People get a dopamine hit by hitting the like button, and a sense of building parasocial connection, which might be “real” digital connection if the two people know each other. May be worth exploring from a UX perspective
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[tantek] Also an interesting counterpoint to Jeremy’s post seemingly not caring about likes he gets via Bridgy backfired
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[tantek] backfeed* lol autocorrect
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jeremycherfas What is Sunlit
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Loqi Sunlit is an open source iOS app to post photos to micro.blog and Micropub capable sites https://indieweb.org/sunlit
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jeremycherfas I know I get the dopamine hit from seeing likes on my IG photos, which is one reason I mention POSSE.
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jeremycherfas [tantek]++
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Loqi [tantek] has 21 karma in this channel over the last year (152 in all channels)
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[tantek] Thanks [jeremycherfas]
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[Al_Abut] I have some ideas too, ones that aren’t being brought up here: everyday people are trained pretty hard on how to surf the algorithms. So it’s not liking just for the soft reasons listed above - the dopamine hit, the parasocial relationships - it’s for the very practical benefit of seeing more things like what they just saw.
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[Al_Abut] Normies curate what they see with views, not just follows. I blame TikTok for that “innovation” but it works. For example, my instagram feed is all bicycles and cute puppies.
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jeremycherfas Except that IG honestly no longer delivers that to me. I've taken to using only Following, rather than For You every time.
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[Al_Abut] That’s a smart tip that I always forget to do on IG for some reason. I do it on Threads because the default feed is so gross.
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[tantek] Wait how do you use IG as “only Following”?
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[Al_Abut] There’s a hidden menu setting
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[tantek] (I do that on Threads also)
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[tantek] 👀
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[Al_Abut] Credit to [artlung], I always forget about it
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[tantek] Screenshots? How to? Please add this to /Instagram
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jeremycherfas For me, there's a disclosure arrow top left, next to For You.
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[Al_Abut] Sure, lemme look real quick. I do it so rarely that I can’t remember off the top of my head.
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[tantek] I don’t have IG on any of my devices with me so I’ll check again in ~2 weeks
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[tantek] Taking a bit of an IG break
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[Al_Abut] Oh! It’s simple. Click on the dropdown by the logo.
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[Al_Abut] IG breaks are super key. I’ve had several heartwarming moments this year on group bicycle rides where people half my age tell me that they follow the events on a friend’s website because they’re off IG and all socials. The kids are alright…
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jeremycherfas Done!
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[Al_Abut] Oh you beat me to it! Haha, well done.
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[tantek] A few kids are navigating alternatives, at the cost of disconnecting (social isolation) from some (many?) peers. I would not call that “alright” 😔
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[Al_Abut] True. “Some of the kids are alright” doesn’t have the same ring to it though ;)
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[tantek] There are NYT etc articles about flipphones, portable digital cameras, CD players
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[Al_Abut] Oh I run into film camera users all the time
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[tantek] (Adoption by gen Z / alpha)
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[Al_Abut] It’s the vinyl of photos
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[tantek] I mean full on revert from “smartphones” back to the 3-4 devices we used to carry
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[tantek] Has a very indie vibe to it
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[tantek] Sure, some go “full analog” but that’s not the larger (I suspect) phenomenon I’m talking about
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[tantek] It’s more like digital decomposition
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[tantek] And ditching anything “cloud”
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[Al_Abut] Totally
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[Al_Abut] Subscription fatigue is driving it too
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[Al_Abut] Getting nickel and dimed for every dang thing you want to watch or interact with
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[tantek] That’s one aspect sure. I think notifications and distraction fatigue is another, even at zero monetary cost
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[Al_Abut] Honestly IG is a hack for me. If there was a better way to use digital tools to meet people in physical spaces that everyone actually used, I’d be off it in a second, puppies or no
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[tantek] IG has replaced Twitter in that regard I agree
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[tantek] This is why I keep pointing people back at Sunlit as an example to follow
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[Al_Abut] The latest example of someone young getting off IG told me at our big Halloween ride last Friday that losing cycling friends has been the hardest part but she specifically mentioned the mental health burden of being performative (her words)
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[tantek] I think it’s worth pushing Sunlit to its limits and the providing feedback when you find those limits
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[tantek] Yeah that’s a big burden
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[Al_Abut] Never heard of Sunlit before, that looks interesting
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[tantek] One of the nice things about the demise of Twitter is now I feel like I can treat it much more like an occasional POSSE backup, and assume no one is reading me there except for bots
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[Al_Abut] Yeah, me too, although it makes me so sad to post there sometimes that I skip it
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[tantek] And if the boys learn a thing or two from me, I’m ok with that
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[Al_Abut] It’s like going back to your old high school and seeing nobody you know
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[tantek] Lol autocorrect again
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[tantek] If the bots* learn a thing or two
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[tantek] Twitter lost the “high school” vibe for me in 2009 so that’s long gone. Have had more time to process that grief :)
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[Al_Abut] Me too but I realized recently that I still get those pangs
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[Al_Abut] Like my little circles all grew up and now I’m chasing different ones across the various socials
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[Al_Abut] But they don’t talk to each other, it’s the cross-talk that’s missing
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[Al_Abut] But hey, yet another old man around the fire story mode
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[Al_Abut] Looking to the kids and the future, the most successful hack I’ve seen to get people off of IG is (paradoxically) to embrace it. There’s an IG account here that a local developer runs that does nothing but list schedules of all the grassroots cycling events here in SD and then dump the spreadsheet on to the web, and it’s helped people to get off IG knowing they can still see their friends IRL: https://bikingis.fun
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[tantek] I neee to watch the Twitter documentary “Breaking the Bird”
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[tantek] Yes, IG as discovery rather than content. Good strategy. Worth adding to /Instagram#Brainstorming
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[Al_Abut] Oof, the IG page on our wiki is huge. Trying to see where to slot that idea in…
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[tantek] New Subsection at the start of the “Brainstorming” top level section
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[tantek] Here to help with such wikinav issues for adding to the wiki. The gardeners will clean it up at some point :)
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[tantek] Re: breaking the bird btw https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2025/mar/31/twitter-breaking-the-bird-review-how-all-the-hate-speech-flooded-in
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[Al_Abut] Teach me your ways, oh wiki one
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[Al_Abut] I don’t see a brainstorming section, do you mean add one?
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[Al_Abut] Also some of the stuff in there is wrong - a video post is not the same as a reel
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[Al_Abut] So I can chip in with some cleaning there of my own
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[tantek] Huh
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[tantek] Surprised no Brainstorming section
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[tantek] Add it top level just before “See Also”
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[tantek] One change at a time. Capture your new thoughts first before fixing other parts of the page :)
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[Al_Abut] Ha! Good tip, I was just about to ask
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[Al_Abut] Ok, documented in the Brainstorming section! What’s cool about writing it up is that I learned more about something I thought I already knew well.
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[Al_Abut] E.g. I only just now realized that one of the cultural patterns in IG to get people off of it is to name the url in the account name
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[Al_Abut] My new section feels verbose, not sure if it’ll get gardened out or if it’s actually useful: https://indieweb.org/Instagram#Brainstorming
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jeremycherfas It is a useful read. I'm wondering, though, how do the examples you mention get over the difficulty of linking out of IG?
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[Al_Abut] They typically say “link in bio”
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[Al_Abut] Which is IG code for “click through to my profile to see more info, including a link”
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jeremycherfas Sure, I also wonder how many people do that.
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[Al_Abut] Pretty common
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[Al_Abut] To the point where there’s even splash pages made specifically for it
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[Al_Abut] https://lnk.bio
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[Al_Abut] Joe’s got a homemade version:
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[Al_Abut] https://artlung.com/links/
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crystalwoohoo jeremycherfas: I personally click through a ton from instagram and I'm always glad when the bio link is a linktree or some other page with lots of links pointing me to other places to connect.
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[tantek] [Al_Abut] re splash pages, just going to point out:
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[tantek] What is link in bio
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Loqi link in bio is a common expression on silos like Instagram which disallow linking from posts, directing viewers to the respective social media profile which usually allows only one link, which motivates linking to a link-in-bio service to show multiple links, usually at a short vanity path https://indieweb.org/link_in_bio
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[tantek] ^ see if lnkbio is there and if not add it with your experience! Eg if you know of a “trusted” creator who has an example “lnkbio” URL on their IG profile you can add as a real world example
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failxontour long time since I wrote something I fixed up my permalinks on my blog https://failxontour.de/blog/
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failxontour now just open an issue I did not even tackle before adding a perl script so I can generate atom/rss feeds
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failxontour either that or using a generator like rss.app I guess
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failxontour what's better?
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failxontour I also need a sitemap
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jeremycherfas <c​rystalwoohoo>++
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jeremycherfas I bookmarked https://bkardell.com/blog/LinkInBio.html when it was published. Where would I add that? /LinkInBio/Articles?
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jeremycherfas No, wait. It is already there.
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[Al_Abut] [tantek] I like that page for “link in bio” splash pages! And I like the indieweb-based examples way more than the commercial offerings, they’re inspiring.
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[tantek] yes! feel free to add more! the more indieweb examples we provide, the more we encourage others to do so
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failxontour there we go much better dont need content for bots but for humans :D https://failxontour.de/sitemap
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failxontour if you need the link aggregator to be simpler
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failxontour it's accessible it has no issue with being shown anywhere else there is no tracking no images or heavy payloads just works ^^
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failxontour (but the emojis) there is unicode shush
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[tantek] what is a sitemap
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Loqi A sitemap is a list of pages on a website https://indieweb.org/sitemap
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[tantek] heh, it's a bit more than that
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[tantek] the two certainly overlap yet I think most examples look very different
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cupparex posting from discord, can someone tell me if my name shows as CuppaRex or if it's still showing as crystalwhoohoo?
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[jeremycherfas] I see cupparex
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[jeremycherfas] On slack
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cupparex whew! thank you. I think i fixed it then 🙂
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cupparex I didn't know that my display name isn't what shows on slack and irc if I post on discord.
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[jeremycherfas] @cupparex++
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Loqi @cupparex has 1 karma over the last year
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capjamesg cupparex++
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Loqi cupparex has 2 karma over the last year
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cupparex Thanks! y'all 🙂 I'm figuring all this out still. so the ++ after a name gives karma to people?
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cupparex capjamesg[d]++
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Loqi capjamesg[d] has 66 karma in this channel over the last year (208 in all channels)
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cupparex @jeremycherfas++
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Loqi @jeremycherfas has 5 karma in this channel over the last year (14 in all channels)
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cupparex @tantek++
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Loqi @tantek has 22 karma in this channel over the last year (153 in all channels)
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cupparex aaronpk[d]++
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Loqi too much karma!
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cupparex dang I was catching up from the help yesterday by passing our the karma lol
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cupparex [edit] dang I was catching up from the help yesterday by passing out the karma lol
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[tantek] aww thanks cupparex and appreciate the kind vibes 🙏
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Loqi Homebrew Website Club Europe/London is starting soon! Join us! https://events.indieweb.org/JO0cHNU7vIqt
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capjamesg One of my favourite local news outlets just moved from Substack to Ghost: https://edinburghminute.substack.com/p/a-new-home-for-the-edinburgh-minute
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capjamesg [edit] One of my favourite local news outlets just moved from Substack to Ghost: https://edinburghminute.substack.com/p/a-new-home-for-the-edinburgh-minute
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[jeremycherfas] 👍
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rgbivvv [jeremycherfas]: o/
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[tantek] worth documenting silo migrations like that to alternative hosted platforms? feels like it
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[Al_Abut] That’s a great writeup, James. Opening explanation of how not changing the reader UX is a feature not a bug, the rallying cry of “here’s to a simpler future!”, lots of great zingers
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