#dev 2016-07-20

2016-07-20 UTC
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david.shanske.com edited /2016/NYC2/Planning (+433) (view diff)
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@NelioSoft_ES ¿Te han hecho un pingback? ¿No sabes qué es? Nosotros te lo explicamos https://neliosoftware.com/es/blog/trackbacks-pingbacks-y-webmentions/ #WordPress (twitter.com/_/status/755687682236350464)
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tommorris.org edited /code-of-conduct (+22) "fixing link to [[IndieWebCamp:Copyrights]]" (view diff)
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tommorris.org created /IndieWebCamp:Copyrights (+33) "redirect" (view diff)
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calumryan.com edited /events/2016-07-27-homebrew-website-club (+16) "/* London */" (view diff)
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@Inkwater_Masha Is There a Best Time of Day to Be Creative? http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/best-time-day-creative/?platform=hootsuite #amwriting #indieauth (twitter.com/_/status/755763015614664705)
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aaronpk well this looks interesting https://github.com/GUI/lua-resty-auto-ssl
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petermolnar I swear I was looking at lua ~10 minutes ago :D
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aaronpk i wrote a bit of lua while experimenting with my eyefi card replacement
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petermolnar since it seems pretty much I will end up deperting from wordpress, I might as well choose something other than PHP
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petermolnar and since lua can be embedded in nginx...
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petermolnar but I also seem to have trouble locating markdown extra and twig parsers for lua
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petermolnar and that much time/patience I may not have to write those :)
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aaronpk oh shoot i broke loqi's logging last night
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aaronpk dammit
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aaronpk it was getting late last night
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Loqi tantek: petermolnar left you a message 1 day, 15 hours ago: PHP 5.2 is without namespaces, anonym functions and it's brutally slow compared to 7.0, so yes, it's quite bad.
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tantek whoa
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petermolnar tantek by the way, I went through your http://tantek.pbworks.com/w/page/59905776/Markdown and I've found most of it true
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petermolnar especially that it would make every content easily regex parsable as well
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tantek ooh
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tantek appreciate the review petermolnar !
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petermolnar there are things you didn't touch on the other hand
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tantek I'm sure
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tantek it's not comprehensive
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petermolnar like tables and definition lists
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tantek I only got to the things that *really* annoyed me obviously about Markdown
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petermolnar which are not part of the original markdown either
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tantek to be fair, tables and DLs are harder
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tantek I'd need to gather some real world examples from plain text emails
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tantek before designing something better
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petermolnar I'd love to participate
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tantek also project gutenberg (their plain text docs) is a likely good source
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tantek awesome!
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aaronpk cringes at plaintext tables
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petermolnar :D
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tantek aaronpk, fair enough
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aaronpk they look nice, but are a PITA to author
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tantek point being, there is some prior art for people publishing them in plain text
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tantek like prior art *before* markdown
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aaronpk yeah totally
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aaronpk mediawiki has its own table syntax too which is a similar nightmare
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tantek or mediawiki {| |} craziness
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tantek lol yeah
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petermolnar I'm getting desperately tired of WordPress, and if I change, I'll make my content _actually_ human readable, which leaves me with plain text with rather strict syntax for anything that requires parsing
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tantek interesting
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tantek petermolnar I've been gradually implementing and selfdogfooding the features of tantek.com/w/Markdown
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tantek so far very few surprises, but definitely a few minor iterations
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petermolnar by the way, I want to keep the idea of fenced code blocks
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tantek the trick with more memorable linking syntax (with all the video / image / URL / linktext ) possibilities is to prefer "richer" / "more primary" content first
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petermolnar the ```language in my opinion is useful
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tantek petermolnar I've never seen ``` used for that before markdown
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tantek it's a total made-up hack with zero basis in research AFAIK
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petermolnar true
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petermolnar still usefil
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petermolnar useful
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tantek yes the use-case is there for sure
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petermolnar you know, never go full retro ;)
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tantek however I think we can redesign it based on actual research
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tantek instead of making stuff up with random characters like what was done with Markdown
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petermolnar the indention-based block drives me mad
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tantek smells like Perl logic
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petermolnar mostly because I'm a tab person
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tantek hah yes - indention-based stuff is fragile when linebreaks occur (e.g. email)
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aaronpk trying to write regexes for matching indent based blocks is super hard too
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petermolnar tantek -> `perldoc perlvar` ;)
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petermolnar aaronpk not that bad, ``` is rather rare in code
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petermolnar unless you're coding Markdown... inside Markdown... (Yo, dawg... )
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aaronpk ``` is easier, but matching lines beginning with spaces and allowing for blank links is harder
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tantek I get the feeling it is somewhat a derivative of / inspired by PHP heredoc syntax
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tantek (also not very memorable nor readable)
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petermolnar I need to leave for now; I'll summarize my thoughts as well on the plain-text ideas
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tantek awesome petermolnar !
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tantek do you have something like a wiki yourself?
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tantek (obv my wiki is on a silo still, but better than nothing)
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aaronpk Linode is doing some server maintenance and needs to reboot all my servers
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aaronpk one (that isn't doing much) is scheduled for tomorrow 5am PDT, the rest (including the indieweb server) are 4am on Friday.
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aaronpk I have to decide whether to use this opportunity to move to their new infrastructure which will require similar downtime. Probably a good move otherwise I have to do this againz
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bear my opinion is to never decide to test moving to new infra because of a quickly arriving infra reboot
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aaronpk If I can finish my work release on the early side I can maybe do the reboots tonight
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aaronpk it should be a seamless move, Linode is good about that
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bear oh - letting them move your server image... that's different
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aaronpk its just moving to their KVM hosts from the XEN one
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bear sorry, I thought you were going to test some new provisioning script or somesuch
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aaronpk it'll take maybe 1-2 hours per server
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aaronpk oh no I don't have anything fancy like that
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bear resists the urge to whisper "you could..."
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bear I'm +1 for getting them moved ahead of the force reboots
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aaronpk I have too many apps on the server to try any sort of automatic provisioning stuff. Also that is a lot of extra work and I don't think it provides much benefit overall
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bear I keep saying that it doesn't have to be *you* that does the work
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aaronpk Yeah but I do have to know how it works still
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bear and the benefit is that this documents for others how to do something similar
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bear sure, I get that you will want to know how it works - i'm not talking about something complicated
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aaronpk I have a text file I keep notes in right now
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bear more like a series of bash scripts that sets up the server for the apps and then some that install/start the apps
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aaronpk basically my manual server setup scripts
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aaronpk Also this stuff changes every 6 months so actually automating it isn't practical
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bear just stops beating his head against that wall
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aaronpk new versions of nginx/php, and the occasional platform change where suddenly you have to write startup scripts a whole different way
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bear yes, I am well aware of all the different things that change when OSs and languages and even devs change things
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bear it's what I do every day of the year and have been for 35+ years
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bear once you get the pattern of using scripts then you do any changes in the scripts - boom - they are up to date
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bear and the script becomes your "text file"
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aaronpk I did write a pretty thorough automation script for the Geoloqi servers a while ago
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aaronpk but it involved some config file templates and tricky bash scripts to move them around and replace pieces
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bear all I've ever tried to do, and will still try to do, is remove the *chore* of infra maintenance from you so you have brain cycles for the other stuff
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bear because we (the IndieWeb community) are very very close to having infrastructure that is required to have high uptimes
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aaronpk sorry, I don't mean to sound cranky or ungrateful
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bear your not
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bear the whole experience has been very normal and pleasant
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bear I'm going thru some personal stress and may be the cranky one
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bear this is something I go thru a lot with devs (way more than you would think)
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bear I sometimes have to approach the conversation from multiple angles, reasons and timings
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bear until they hit some pain point and realize that having a friendly ops person who groks change and configuration management is a good thing ;)
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bear it's what all the young folks are calling DevOps now
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bear aaronpk - back to the server restarts
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bear my suggestion is to get word out today and do the moves tomorrow evening
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bear so you are ahead of the forced linode event
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bear because of how linode does forced restarts, you don't want to be part of the 1000's who are queued for image moves
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bear better to be ahead of it
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aaronpk true
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bear then you can pick the time, let folks know and just do it
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aaronpk on an unrelated note, here's my notes on how i installed these servers. it looks like the version numbers are way out of date but this is basically what I do https://gist.github.com/aaronpk/2d6681a2dfe41025c30ce22165d2d563
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aaronpk i think i might be missing an nginx plugin too, crap.
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bear that is (to be honest) much better than I normally see from a dev
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bear making that into some simple form of automation would be very easy
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aaronpk i realized a couple years ago that every time i have to figure out what i installed i was wasting time, and it'd be easier if i just wrote it down
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bear :)
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bear pulling known versions of your key services is also a great thing
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aaronpk you'll notice sometimes i link to stackoverflow or other places where the process has changed over the years, so i know where to check if something is updated
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bear aaronpk++ for having clear install notes
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Loqi aaronpk has 1069 karma (3 in this channel)
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aaronpk i also realized that if i get in the habit of updating nginx/php/ruby regularly, i get better at it, and doing smaller changes more frequently means fewer things break
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aaronpk so at the beginning of the year i decided i would try upgrading everything on the system every 3 months
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bear that was what I was crankily referring to above :)
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bear change management done incrementally is always better
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aaronpk one of my servers that's being rebooted tomorrow morning is about 7 years old, and i've been trying to move off of it for about 4 years. it's too old to upgrade now. it's so old that the openssl bugs found weren't even in its openssl yet.
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bear LOL
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bear oh my - your making me cry right now
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aaronpk this is why i'm trying to get better about regular updates :)
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bear 7 yrs old - I yell at my team when a server is more than a month old
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aaronpk i finally shut down one of my other servers a couple months ago after finally moving everything off of it. but that was about 2 years later than I wanted to shut it down
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aaronpk this is definitely a bad habit of mine. the "oh i'll totally move all these apps to this new server let me go set up the new server now" and then not realizing some dependency or something that makes me leave the old server online for 2 years more than it should have been
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aaronpk so i'm actually down to just one old server now. my target is having 3 linodes.
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aaronpk i have a linode problem 😂
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aaronpk hm i wonder if using cloudflare on indieweb.org to serve cached pages while the migration happens might be a good solution
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tantek interesting, CDN as a service uptime enhancer
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tantek.com created /2017 (+971) "stub with dfn, organizers, dates, onsite considerations, sponsors, etc." (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Planning (+65) "/* 2017 */ summit planning link!" (view diff)
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aaronpk just put indieweb.org behind cloudflare, but i think they haven't generated the SSL cert for it yet
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aaronpk yeah i'm gonna switch back and wait for them to issue the cert
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aaronpk they should really point that out
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aaronpk there it goes, now it's active
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aaronpk ah darn, their crawler only crawls once every 7 days so that likely won't work for tomorrow https://support.cloudflare.com/hc/en-us/articles/202238800-Why-is-Always-Online-not-working-
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www.boffosocko.com edited /recipe (+494) "example: Chris Aldrich, mf1, hrecipe, WordPress" (view diff)
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paulrobertlloyd.com created /Template:paulrobertlloyd (+176) "Created page with "<span class="h-card" style="white-space:nowrap">{{sparkline|https://gravatar.com/avatar/15091a37bacfa4bdd011282627eaca2b}} [[User:Paulrobertlloyd.com|Paul Robert Lloyd]]</span>"" (view diff)
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paulrobertlloyd.com edited /2016/Brighton (+22) "/* Participating */" (view diff)
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miklb guess this is more a -dev/plumbing issue
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miklb this is the full error message in logs EPROTO 140499128305536:error:14077438:SSL routines:SSL23_GET_SERVER_HELLO:tlsv1 alert internal error:../deps/openssl/openssl/ssl/s23_clnt.c:769
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aaronpk oh so there's an ssl error?
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aaronpk do you know what URL it's trying to fetch at that point?
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miklb FetchError: request to https://tokens.indieauth.com/token failed ?
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miklb that is prior to the above error
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aaronpk so it did
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miklb sorry wasn't clear with error message(s)
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aaronpk oh snap
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aaronpk my fault!
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aaronpk i didn't realize i had aliased that to indieweb.org!
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aaronpk (which i just launched on cloudflare)
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aaronpk give it 5 minutes or so and it should work again
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miklb cool
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aaronpk might work now
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miklb \_O_/
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miklb thanks aaronpk
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www.boffosocko.com edited /recipe (+256) "mf2 code example for WordPress" (view diff)
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aaronpk whee dns is fun
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