#dev 2016-08-17

2016-08-17 UTC
rMdes, mblaney and rMdes_ joined the channel
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unicyclic.com mal edited /spam (+139) "Add Indieweb examples section" (view diff)
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aaronpk oops. i really need a better mechanism of rolling out updtes to my site
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aaronparecki.com edited /search (+233) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ search is back!" (view diff)
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AngeloGladding !tell KevinMarks mf2util isn't considering your representative h-card because it's bundled with p-author -- see https://github.com/kylewm/mf2util/blob/master/mf2util.py#L91 -- who should patch? i want to get you in on the crawl :)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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rascul so this https page, is it really that important to have a section for let's encrypt?
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rascul i really like them though, but we don't seem to have sections for any other ca
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aaronpk oh hm, i see
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aaronpk yeah that seems odd now
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aaronpk it's not a very good tutorial
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rascul it's also out of date
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aaronpk i'd say just delete the whole section. letsencrypt is referenced elsewhere in the page still
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rascul a separate let's encrypt page i think would be fine but i'm not really interested in making it right now
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sknebel Let's encrypt should be prominently featured, but it's better to link to official docs
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rascul yes i agree, it should be prominently featured
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aaronpk there is a letsencrypt page http://indieweb.org/letsencrypt
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rascul ahh ok
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aaronpk just link to that somewhere from /https?
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rascul that section there just doesn't seem to do it justice
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aaronpk yeah
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rascul i'll likely be adding to /letsencrypt in due time
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aaronparecki.com edited /letsencrypt (+151) (view diff)
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rascul i'll just go ahead and delete the section from https for now then
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aaronpk 👍
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rascul some more could potentially be added to it in the ca list though
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rascul i'll link to the page there also
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rascul aaronpk do you have the cert stuff automated in some manner? if so, that might be worth adding to the letsencrypt page
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aaronpk yeah
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aaronpk a cron job
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rascul if nothing else than just what you have in crontab
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rascul.xyz edited /HTTPS () "(-1201) the let's encrypt section is outdated and let's encrypt has its own page" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /letsencrypt (+262) "there are some benefits of short renewal intervals" (view diff)
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aaronpk oh man that comic is great
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rascul hehe yeah
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rascul.xyz edited /HTTPS (-218) "/* Obtain */ change let's encrypt description and link to the wiki page" (view diff)
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rascul check that
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aaronpk some of that sounds like it's from their marketing copy
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rascul well i did copy/paste a line from https://letsencrypt.org/about/
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rascul and a line from https://letsencrypt.org/getting-started/
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aaronpk well that explains it :)
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rascul i was trying to make it seem like the best option and those lines seemed right to me
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aaronparecki.com edited /letsencrypt (+810) "add cron example" (view diff)
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rascul might be worth noting that let's encrypt appears to be the only ca we have a page for
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rascul not noting in the page i mean, just a nice personal note
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rascul.xyz edited /letsencrypt (+68) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ add rascul.xyz" (view diff)
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aaronpk what is startssl?
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Loqi StartSSL is a service that provides introductory SSL certificates for no cost, see startssl.com https://indieweb.org/StartSSL
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aaronpk that's the other one i use
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mblaney bleh just paid for a certificate out of fear of changing anything on a particular server :/
rMdes_ and AngeloGladding joined the channel
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AngeloGladding not sure if the last message went through: rascul fyi if you add a rel=me to your class=u-url it becomes a http://indieweb.org/representative_h-card
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rascul oh you're looking at what i have up on rascul.xyz?
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rascul AngeloGladding done
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rascul so i have ra·scul in my h-card, i would like for it to be p-nickname, but i want p-nickname to be rascul and not ra·scul
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rascul oh i guess i could add something with p-nickname with visibility: hidden
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rascul why do i have these itemprops in my tags? i just ripped this out of an old page, i don't know why the itemprops are there
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rascul oh, because schema.org apparently
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AngeloGladding yeah who's team are you on
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AngeloGladding :)
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AngeloGladding thnx for the change.
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AngeloGladding i went through the indieweb.org wiki user list and added everyone with a representative h-card to my list
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AngeloGladding you're #20
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AngeloGladding my crawler will index your page within the half hour
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AngeloGladding https://angelo.lahacker.net/people
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rascul what do you mean who's team am i on?
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AngeloGladding microformats and schema.org are competing standards i believe
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AngeloGladding definitely just kidding
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rascul oh it's display: none i wanted, not visibility: hidden
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rascul oh i see
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rascul i think i had schema.org stuff because googles wanted it at one time
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rascul i don't really remember the reason, but that might be it
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AngeloGladding yeah it's google's baby
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rascul i just copy/pasted that h-card from what i had before on my site
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rascul so that i would have "something"
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AngeloGladding simplest source code i've read yet
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AngeloGladding and i've had my nose in some wordpress muck as of late
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AngeloGladding so refreshing
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rascul i am very much not a fan of wordpress
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AngeloGladding yeah a <span style="display: none;">&middot;</span> will work
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AngeloGladding or wait..
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AngeloGladding no
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GWG I am a fan of WordPress.
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AngeloGladding sorry
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AngeloGladding haha
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Loqi hehe
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rascul GWG to each their own
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AngeloGladding i'm going to learn to abuse those alerts of yours
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GWG AngeloGladding: The WordPress ones?
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AngeloGladding yes
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GWG I was here anyway
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AngeloGladding oh ok
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rascul AngeloGladding check it now
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rascul https://rascul.xyz
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Loqi Ray Schulz rascul
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AngeloGladding i was actually impressed w/ your and Chris' responsiveness to the mention
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GWG AngeloGladding: We are trying to get more interest.
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rascul Loqi you didn't really need to use three lines for that
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AngeloGladding rascul i was going to suggest a different approach
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rascul maybe i did it right though because Loqi said rascul and not ra&middot;scul
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AngeloGladding w/ stylesheets turned off (as i do...) you have redundancy
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rascul hrm
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AngeloGladding i have a solution
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AngeloGladding add a <span class=dot>&middot;</span>
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AngeloGladding sorry
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AngeloGladding just the naked tag <span class=dot></span>
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AngeloGladding then add css: .dot:after { content: "-"; }
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rascul oh that's a good idea
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AngeloGladding you can look up how to add unicode to css
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AngeloGladding some escaping involved..
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rascul i should be able to just do content: "&middot;" though, right?
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AngeloGladding don't believe so
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AngeloGladding try it
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Loqi yea
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gRegorLove Loqi uses the p-name and doesn't trim new lines from it, rascul
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rascul gRegorLove ahh ok
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rascul i have the different p-name things on different lines
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sknebel rascul: {content: '\b7' }is middot in CSS
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AngeloGladding https://angelo.lahacker.net
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rascul AngeloGladding no, i can't do content: "&middot;"
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AngeloGladding correct
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sknebel '\b7'
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rascul but i can apparently do content: "·";
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AngeloGladding yeah as long as you serve the css correctly
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rascul sknebel \b7 does it, and is probably a better way than just pasting the dot
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rascul pushed changes
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AngeloGladding indeed
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AngeloGladding cool
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AngeloGladding while we're getting technical
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rascul thanks for the tips AngeloGladding and sknebel
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AngeloGladding p-job-title or p-role may be more appropriate than p-note for your, ahem, title
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rascul oh, sure
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AngeloGladding and yeah no prob
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rascul that one done
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rascul funny i had the jobtitle itemprop but the p-note
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AngeloGladding cool cool cool
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rascul so i guess the icons don't work without css but they're not really important
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AngeloGladding there's a page on the font pack's site about the accessibility issue
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rascul do you have a link?
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rascul i'm hoping that if one stares at my h-card for a minute then one would see where rascul comes from
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AngeloGladding put the content inside a <span> inside the <i> and display: none span w/ "i span { display: none; }"
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rascul ahh yeah that makes sense
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rascul whoa my touchpad went super crazy for a minute
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AngeloGladding your machine has been compromised
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rascul AngeloGladding ok made them last changes
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rascul links gets confused about irc links though heh
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rascul https://rascul.xyz/irc://freenode.net:6667/rascul,isnick
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AngeloGladding http://fontawesome.io/examples/#accessible
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rascul lynx appears to get it right
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AngeloGladding that goes a bit deeper if you're interested
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AngeloGladding i'll show you the output of my crawler tomorrowish
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rascul oh well i put the span inside the i, but oh well
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rascul w3c validator says it's fine
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rascul although the validator can't connect to my site, had to do direct input
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rascul probably it doesn't support tls1.2 or modern ciphers
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AngeloGladding great minimalist example
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rascul in due time there will be more than just an h-card at rascul.xyz
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AngeloGladding i hope you continue to add indieweb components in their simplest, purist form
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rascul this was mostly so there's "something" and so i can login to wiki
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rascul i prefer to do everything in the simplest form that makes sense
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AngeloGladding yeah there's a great divide between your camp and the wordpress folks
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AngeloGladding i'm desperately trying to strike a balance with my canopy
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rascul i'm not normally a fan of dynamic sites at all
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rascul unless they need to be, anyway
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AngeloGladding bash & rust static site generators? yeah.. evident
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AngeloGladding i think there's some room for static dynamism w/ your approach if you think outside the box
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rascul i've made many web sites and they're all as static as possible
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rascul static sites can be dynamically generated, though
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AngeloGladding exactly.. and some parts more frequently than others..
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rascul but if the content doesn't change, i see no reason for it to be dynamically generated per request
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rascul of course there's ways to help that, but they're just adding complexity to complexity
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AngeloGladding cache all the things
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Loqi http://meme.loqi.me/m/4iqrQhuw.jpg
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AngeloGladding yes.
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AngeloGladding i'm prepping my site to be aggressively cached.. part of the reason i have a local supervisor watching a custom built nginx
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rascul my old site was generated directly from a git repo, but i didn't want to implement all the git stuff in the generator this time around
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rascul turned out to be a lot of work with unstable libs
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AngeloGladding there's still downsides but solid caching will go a long way to make a heavily dynamic site match performance parity w/ a static one
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rascul well caching is an interesting topic
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rascul on linux anyway, frequently accessed files will be cached in memory already
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AngeloGladding you just have to instruct the web server to bake your output to file
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AngeloGladding which is non-trivial
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rascul so if you're getting a lot of hits on your static site for a number of files, linux will already have those in memory and save the disk hists
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rascul *hits
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AngeloGladding well yeah if you're static you're good
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AngeloGladding but my point is you can take an aggressively dynamic site and make it look very close to static
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AngeloGladding just takes a bit of work
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rascul yeah, but then you're adding complexity to complexity like i said earlier
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AngeloGladding that's why someone like me figures it all out *cleanly* and bakes it into the platform
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AngeloGladding that's the idea at least
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AngeloGladding don't leave caching as an afterthought
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AngeloGladding my goal is to keep the entire platform under 10k sloc python
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rascul i like dynamically generated static sites whenever i can
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AngeloGladding django and wordpress are up over 250k
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rascul instead of regular dynamic web server -> app -> db and back
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AngeloGladding oh yeah i mean i've been there.. i definitely know what you're talking about.. but the freedom one has to hit refresh and get new content
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rascul i believe wordpress can do that though
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rascul if the content is actually dynamic, then a static page for it doesn't really make sense
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AngeloGladding like an administration panel.. that's an obvious use case for dynamic
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rascul a cached page might though, if the cache can be invalidated in a timely manner
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AngeloGladding but a blog post can and should be set to cache
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AngeloGladding yeah like i said i haven't implemented it yet but i look forward to using etag+last-modified
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rascul i made a site awhile back for the mud game i play, it was for trading characters, the only dynamic page on it was the listing of characters available
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AngeloGladding the tools are there
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rascul all the rest were generated and nginx served them directly
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AngeloGladding hmm.. then there's `sendfile`
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rascul we're doing it again
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AngeloGladding familiar?
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rascul i'm getting drunk and we're flooding the channel with drivel
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AngeloGladding hah
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AngeloGladding yes
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rascul just like last night
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AngeloGladding on that note
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AngeloGladding the chatter is not entirely in vain
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rascul i was going to do some more wiki editing but now i got drunk and i don't trust myself much with the wiki right now
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AngeloGladding i look forward to adverstising the simplicity of your site through my crawler's public interface
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mblaney expire all the caches
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Loqi http://meme.loqi.me/m/4iqHs7RM.jpg
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AngeloGladding so keep on doing the static thing
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mblaney yessssssss
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AngeloGladding damn we were just about wrapped up
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AngeloGladding :)
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mblaney in Australia we're just getting started.
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mblaney s/we're/me
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rascul btw gitit is a fun wiki if you want a personal wiki and use git a lot http://gitit.net/
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AngeloGladding hello Australia
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AngeloGladding the wiki app ive begun work on for my platform has the simplest of features
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AngeloGladding a title, a body in markdown, and a hash of the two appended to the previous versions' hashes
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AngeloGladding a merkle tree
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AngeloGladding like in git
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AngeloGladding i'm all about reinventing wheels i suppose...
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AngeloGladding mblaney -- do you have an indieweb site w/ a representative hcard?
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AngeloGladding i'm collecting them all....
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AngeloGladding brb
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mblaney AngeloGladding: yes https://unicyclic.com/mal or just click on my name in the logs
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mblaney did you look at /irc-people? lots of sites with h-cards there.
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AngeloGladding ah i was foraging at http://indieweb.org/Special:ActiveUsers and misinterpreted your username
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mblaney yeah people with paths in their urls have trouble with the wiki
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AngeloGladding whoa that irc list has way more people..
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AngeloGladding are those all manual entries?
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KevinMarks_ So why is mine failing? Because I have other h-cards?
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Loqi KevinMarks_: AngeloGladding left you a message 3 hours, 41 minutes ago: mf2util isn't considering your representative h-card because it's bundled with p-author -- see https://github.com/kylewm/mf2util/blob/master/mf2util.py#L91 -- who should patch? i want to get you in on the crawl :)
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AngeloGladding !tell KevinMarks_ yours is failing because the mf2util has been instructed to ignore an h-card that's provided in a p-author context
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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AngeloGladding !tell KevinMarks_ i can submit a pull request for a change but I haven't researched on the wiki or asked kyle personally why he made the decision -- the cited docstring explicitly demonstrates the exclusionary approach
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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AngeloGladding brb
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AngeloGladding added you to my crawl btw mblaney -- https://angelo.lahacker.net/people -- give it 30 to index
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mblaney AngeloGladding: yes /irc-people is all manual entries, people are encouraged to add themselves which creates the links seen in the logs.
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rascul AngeloGladding everyone i click on shows internal server error
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mblaney thanks what are you doing with the crawled data?
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rascul.xyz created /Caddy (+181) "init" (view diff)
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rascul what is caddy?
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Loqi Caddy is an HTTP/2 web server, built for designers, bloggers and developers, with a simple configuration and automatic TLS https://indieweb.org/Caddy
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rascul i'm going to add fun things to that tomorrow
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AngeloGladding oops sorry
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AngeloGladding i'm DOING IT LIVE
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AngeloGladding *fixed*
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AngeloGladding mblaney at this point i'm indexing the indiewebsites on that list, crawling to their rel=me's and storing all parsed mf2 objects into json and storing in a database
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AngeloGladding now that i've added enough people i can reason about the various structures of mf2 implementations in the wild
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AngeloGladding https://angelo.lahacker.net/people/9ExBDU/Malcolm-Blaney
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AngeloGladding the first UL is a "table of contents" for the second UL with a full presentation of the mf2 found
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AngeloGladding you just have an h-card
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AngeloGladding simple
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AngeloGladding click around to others and you see various nested hierarchies of h-card, h-entry, h-feed
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AngeloGladding very few events..
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AngeloGladding anyway.. once i've gotten a feel for what people are conveying and how i'll begin to add them to the various pages you see on the right -- event, location, ..
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AngeloGladding i'd really like to see more XFN data so that the person page will link to other person pages and .. well .. now we've got a decentralized social network
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AngeloGladding i'm getting 429 from youtube, 999 from linkedin and 404s from facebook
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AngeloGladding i'm likely going to have to add API requests to the crawler
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AngeloGladding not sure how far i'll be able to go but the indieweb will obviously possess no barriers
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AngeloGladding so .. early days .. but big plans?
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AngeloGladding :)
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rascul no more internal server errors on your /people :)
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rascul or i mean the links on it
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AngeloGladding yeah now that i've got the deploy automated and the various resources on the right added via remote git repos..
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AngeloGladding i need to build out a staging env
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rascul doesn't show my nickname though
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AngeloGladding and a testing architecture..
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AngeloGladding hmm..
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AngeloGladding im just dumping the data obtained from mf2py at the moment
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AngeloGladding you took the p-nickname out
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AngeloGladding and never replaced :)
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AngeloGladding and THAT'S why im starting out raw
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AngeloGladding i'm findind errors in /everyone's/ implementations
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AngeloGladding validate all the things
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Loqi http://meme.loqi.me/m/4iqRr2TZ.jpg
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AngeloGladding !
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AngeloGladding sorry....
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rascul oh i did oops
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rascul i'll fix that right now
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rascul ok fixed
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AngeloGladding just restarted the crawl
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AngeloGladding we'll see how long it takes
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AngeloGladding is hitting everyone's home page once every 30 minutes wrong?
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sknebel really shouldn't be an issue
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sknebel although probably overkill for many
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AngeloGladding i suppose i'll eventually implement cache awareness -- from the other end
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sknebel oh, and: great project! AngeloGladding++
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AngeloGladding thnx
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sknebel Loqi?
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rascul 30 mins should be fine
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AngeloGladding now loqi goes silent
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AngeloGladding :)
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rascul you could probably make it less if you wanted
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rascul but it's probably not necessary
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sknebel you could parse for feeds and PuSH hubs as well, that might be interesting data
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AngeloGladding rss feeds? i'd love to see all rss content implemented as h-entry
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AngeloGladding what do you mean by PuSH hubs?
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rascul i think someone made a thing for rss to h-entry
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rascul or something like that
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sknebel What is PuSH?
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Loqi PubSubHubbub (PuSH) is a notification-based protocol for publishing and subscribing to streams and legacy feed files in real time https://indieweb.org/PuSH
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sknebel rss/atom feeds, yes. a) to see how many people have them, b) if they actually work ;)
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AngeloGladding oh the crawl is complete
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sknebel (btw, feel free to add www.svenknebel.de to the list of sites you crawl if you want. I really should be working on it more ;))
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rascul AngeloGladding maybe this? https://github.com/snarfed/granary
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rascul that's not the one i remember, but it looks like it might do it
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sknebel there is a few
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AngeloGladding oh nice
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AngeloGladding ok
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AngeloGladding so its kind of like webmention
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AngeloGladding but more general
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AngeloGladding that's perfect
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sknebel for subscriptions, yes. push instead of pull
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rascul i just found it from https://indieweb.org/rss
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AngeloGladding how does granary differ from brid.gy?
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AngeloGladding i'm aware that these sites are available but as i believe aaron mentioned last HWC -- "the goal of brid.gy is to become obsolete"
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AngeloGladding do either of you remember technorati?
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rascul isn't brid.gy for making webmentions out of fb/twitter comments or something like that?
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sknebel I'm aware that technorati existed and screenshots seem vaguely familiar, but I couldn't tell you if I've ever used it
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AngeloGladding pretty sure brid.gy and granary are in the same boat.. middle-man services to facilitate indieweb sites while they independently build out similar features
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AngeloGladding technorati indexed blogs
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AngeloGladding made the blogosphere searchable
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AngeloGladding i'd like my canopy project to decentralize that
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AngeloGladding personal crawler indexes everything you care about
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AngeloGladding and leverages /other/ people's crawl index to enhance results beyond your scope of awareness
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AngeloGladding early days....
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AngeloGladding but i know there's a plethora of technologies to leverage
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AngeloGladding PuSH is great to know
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sknebel decentralized search is a really interesting problem. and not many projects around
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sknebel (YaCy and Pears are the only ones that come to mind, and the latter is really really early stages)
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AngeloGladding hard to go head to head with the giants
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AngeloGladding but i see this as a unique opportunity to carve out a niche search space
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AngeloGladding to experiment with a lively developer community
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AngeloGladding interestingly enough.. snarfed of brid.gy and granary was not on the active wiki users list
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rascul searx is interesting but is a proxy not decentralized search
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rascul er, metasearch engine i guess is the right term
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rascul https://github.com/asciimoo/searx
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AngeloGladding so much to read and learn
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sknebel activity on the wiki is last 30 days? thats pretty short
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sknebel esp since most article creation is via Loqi ;)
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AngeloGladding k now i see how that works
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AngeloGladding good to know
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AngeloGladding i'll expand the list aggressively w/ the irc-people list you gave me earlier sknebel
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AngeloGladding check this out
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AngeloGladding i don't have it complete yet
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AngeloGladding but the indieauth on my page
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AngeloGladding will do essentially the same thing that i'm doing manually
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sknebel mblaney suggested it ;) but yes, most people should be on irc-people
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AngeloGladding ah, yes
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AngeloGladding mblaney++ for likely doubling my crawl size
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Loqi mblaney has 15 karma (1 in this channel)
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AngeloGladding see now loqi's there for the sweet sweet karma
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AngeloGladding anyway..
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AngeloGladding when i add someone it is as if i am following them
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AngeloGladding when they log in to my site it is as if they are following me
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sknebel AngeloGladding++
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Loqi angelogladding has 2 karma (1 in this channel)
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AngeloGladding reciprocation puts the status into rel=acquaintence/friend
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AngeloGladding either way the graph is built out
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AngeloGladding thanks for that :)
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AngeloGladding i'm going to be incorporating my soccer mates into that list
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AngeloGladding none of which have a personal website
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AngeloGladding i'll see what kind of exposure they feel comfortable with
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AngeloGladding the graph will expand into convergent territory w/ walled gardens
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AngeloGladding because everyone is directly related to me i should be able to extract their info from fb, linkedin, et al w/o violating tos or rate limits
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AngeloGladding ...amiright?
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sknebel violating ToS might be tricky ;)
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sknebel +not
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sknebel not sure
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AngeloGladding lol.. on second thought "get a lawyer"
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sknebel I bet many tools around here do stuff that you somehow could construe to violate ToS of various silos
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sknebel as long as it's small stuff it's just unlikely they'll notice or care
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AngeloGladding yeah they won't notice until other people begin to use my platform
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AngeloGladding so i'll be defensive in leveraging walled data
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AngeloGladding stick to the indieweb for now
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AngeloGladding as long as i can
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AngeloGladding so what site are you at sknebel?
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sknebel my site is www.svenknebel.de
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AngeloGladding ah, ok. i had you confused w/ mblaney
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AngeloGladding let me add you
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sknebel ... and it has been nearly 3 months since I have done anything on it
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sknebel really need to build a posting interface, so I'll post more and have more reasons to do more things ;)
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AngeloGladding what language are you using?
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AngeloGladding and you forward to /posts/
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AngeloGladding is that a temporary thing?
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AngeloGladding so i'm limiting my crawl to pages that have a http://indieweb.org/representative_h-card
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AngeloGladding to keep the list clean
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AngeloGladding so i've been damn near harassing people to clean up their semantics
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AngeloGladding which again i'm surprised isn't more fiercely enforced.. i think thats with good reason though
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AngeloGladding standards should reflect the user and not be forced upon them
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sknebel it's python
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AngeloGladding nice
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sknebel and the redirect is there since I don't know yet if I'll add an explicit "front page" and wanted to keep the urls clean
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sknebel and the h-card should be representative
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AngeloGladding so check this out
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AngeloGladding i've been going back and forth a bit with KevinMarks with regards to his repr h-card
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AngeloGladding the python lib i'm using is mf2util
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AngeloGladding if takes a parsed tree from mf2py and can extract the "representative" h-card
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AngeloGladding it wasn't working for kevin
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AngeloGladding so i dug deep and found that for whatever reason mf2util is explicitly refusing to acknowledge an h-card found in the same context as p-author
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AngeloGladding which yours does
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AngeloGladding you're #2
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AngeloGladding so i need to get to the bottom of that
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AngeloGladding find out why kyle has chosen to do that
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sknebel ah, interesting
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sknebel my redirect is questionable as well, re-reading the spec
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AngeloGladding yeah you can definitely do w/o that
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AngeloGladding keep the /posts/.../...
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AngeloGladding but link from your /
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sknebel "If the page contains an h-card with uid and url properties both matching the page URL"
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AngeloGladding yup
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sknebel now it is an interesting question what the page URL is in this case ;)
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sknebel Indiewebify.me (which has bugs, but is often recommended for beginners) says my h-card is an acceptable representative h-card
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sknebel I could add a rel=me to trigger the second case
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AngeloGladding yeah again i think the library i'm using is buggy
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AngeloGladding but the docstring explicitly discusses *not* accepting an h-card next to a p-author
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AngeloGladding so i've got to see what kyle was thinking before i offer a pull request, etc..
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AngeloGladding so leave your code as it is for now
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AngeloGladding unless...
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AngeloGladding you want to try to route around the problme
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AngeloGladding have you ever heard of http://microformats.org/wiki/include
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Loqi include-pattern
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AngeloGladding i'm not even sure if my parser is aware of such.. i could contrive the case and test it out or you could try it on your end
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sknebel I suspect you'll find more pages that do <html class="h-feed"> and then have the h-card as a property
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AngeloGladding so yeah
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AngeloGladding i'm doing a lot of chatting
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AngeloGladding but i'm just about to start investigating others' semantic hierarchies
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AngeloGladding people are definitely nesting this way and that
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sknebel did you try searching in the chat archives? could be that it has already come up
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AngeloGladding but the mf2util is finding their reprs just fine
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AngeloGladding i have not.. kevinmarks didn't immediately understand the problem
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AngeloGladding i'm sure this is edge case territory
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AngeloGladding it may be documented in wiki
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AngeloGladding but i'd really like to go to the source (kylewm) before i get lost in wiki/chat logs
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AngeloGladding so i'll write your site down with pen and paper
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AngeloGladding and let you know when i resolve it
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AngeloGladding in the meantime work on getting your root set up
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AngeloGladding because it really is the correct place for your repr
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AngeloGladding leave /posts the way it is
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AngeloGladding and do something simple like rascul
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AngeloGladding https://rascul.xyz
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Loqi Ray Schulz
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sknebel you get the page at the root url, it has an representative h-card for the root url
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sknebel just checked, the rel=me is there
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sknebel so it is valid
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AngeloGladding hmm..
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AngeloGladding the redirect is throwing off some basic logic
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AngeloGladding my "crawler" is terribly naive
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AngeloGladding i'm almost reluctant to investigate further because it just seems wrong
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AngeloGladding <div style="display:none" class="h-card p-author">by <a class="u-url u-uid p-name" href="/">Sven Knebel</a></div>
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AngeloGladding google would write the heuristics to make that valid
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AngeloGladding i'm trying to err on the site of standards at this early stage
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AngeloGladding think of my crawler as a validator..
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sknebel what standard makes this not valid?
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AngeloGladding the fact that that code exists on /posts
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AngeloGladding i could be wrong
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sknebel all that says is that you can find me on http://www.svenknebel.de
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sknebel <div class="header_nav"><a href="/" rel="me">index</a>
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sknebel ah, wait, maybe I misread something
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AngeloGladding i see what you're doing
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AngeloGladding and i want to make it work
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AngeloGladding but frankly i'll have to reraise this conversation with the others and see if it holds up
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AngeloGladding on a side note -- semantics embedded within a "display:none;" is blasphemy
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AngeloGladding :)
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AngeloGladding and my mf2util is bonking on class="h-card p-author" anyway
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AngeloGladding so you're like three strikes at this point
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AngeloGladding lol
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sknebel ;)
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sknebel now I just need some strange symbols in my name ...
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AngeloGladding so let me try to understand why you don't put up a page at your root
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AngeloGladding yes.. be the crawler's acid test
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AngeloGladding no that's what ChrisAldrich is for
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AngeloGladding *he's got like 200 rel=me's*
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AngeloGladding anyway..
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AngeloGladding consider putting a straightforward repr h-card at your root
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AngeloGladding and i'll ask tantek about your redirect issue
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AngeloGladding and i'll ask kyle about the h-card w/ a p-author
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AngeloGladding and i'll definitely get you on the crawl :)
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AngeloGladding but for now
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AngeloGladding i need to get some codering done
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AngeloGladding is that german?
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AngeloGladding :)
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AngeloGladding or russian...
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AngeloGladding or just generally offensive
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AngeloGladding the sweet sweet python stuff
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AngeloGladding https://github.com/angelogladding if you'd like to take a peak
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AngeloGladding peek*
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sknebel just looked at the code of indiewebify.me. doesn't do anything interesting, except that the microformat search function it uses flattens the structure and thus finds the h-card in the property
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mblaney AngeloGladding: if you're looking at what people are trying to convey with their h-card, I also have rel=feed in mine. and if you want to go even further I also have indie-actions in there.
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sknebel and now I really have to go find breakfast -> afk
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mblaney but now I gotta go, so talk more later.
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petermolnar !tell GWG this may interest you: http://wp-cli.org/restful/
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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barryfrost.com edited /events/2016-08-24-homebrew-website-club (+13) "/* London */" (view diff)
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tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2016-230-facebook-99-notifications.png]]""
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tantek for anyone that wants to add that to /Facebook or /notifications ^^^
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tantek re: max # of notifications
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gkbrk.com edited /IRC_People (+47) "/* Nicknames */" (view diff)
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@ChrisAldrich Comments about webmention for #sciencecommunication http://boffosocko.com/2016/08/17/reply-to-something-the-nih-can-learn-from-nasa/ (twitter.com/_/status/765996009440759808)
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voxpelli Quite happy with this solution, but it's probably very very much overkill: https://github.com/voxpelli/webpage-micropub-to-github/issues/4#issuecomment-240529329
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voxpelli ping miklb :)
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voxpelli (and now I have to document all of the overkillness :P)
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miklb voxpelli++
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Loqi voxpelli has 91 karma (5 in this channel)
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miklb guess I need to move to the new version :)
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miklb just need to look at how to move my syndicate-to links
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voxpelli especially happy with the Peg.js grammar: https://github.com/voxpelli/node-fulfills/blob/master/condition-parser.pegjs :)
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rascul https://rascul.xyz
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Loqi Ray Schulz
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rascul just ray now? hrm
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rascul https://rascul.xyz
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Loqi Ray Schulz
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rascul eh
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rascul https://rascul.xyz
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Loqi Ray Schulz
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aaronpk you can check here too https://xray.p3k.io/parse?url=https%3A%2F%2Frascul.xyz%2F
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rascul oh i see
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aaronpk that's what Loqi uses
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rascul ok
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rascul i had my classes messed up
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rascul aaronpk why isn't it getting my p-nickname? and why all the space between ray and schulz?
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rascul could it be cached?
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aaronpk xray might not be looking for nickname at all, you could check in a regular mf2 parser
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aaronpk xray i think does cache also
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rascul ok, the cache explains the whitespace
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aaronpk http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https%3A%2F%2Frascul.xyz%2F
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aaronpk oh i see why there's whitespace
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rascul hehe "Ray Schulz\n\t\t\t\t\t\t \n\t\t\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\trascul"
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aaronpk look at all those newlines https://aaronparecki.com/uploads/Screen-Shot-2016-08-17-13-31-50.png
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rascul and tabs!
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gRegorLove oh my!
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rascul https://rascul.xyz
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Loqi Ray Schulz rascul
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rascul yay Loqi gets it
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gRegorLove p-name could also just go on that h3 I think
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rascul but then p-nickname wouldn't be included
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gRegorLove You want your name to appear "Ray Schulz rascul"?
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rascul hrm you have a point
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gRegorLove nickname will still parse in the mf2, but yeah it will display as part of the name, like in comments.
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rascul is all this schema.org crap i have really necessary?
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gRegorLove I vote no. heh
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aaronpk not necessary for anything to do with mf2
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gRegorLove But I've never done anything with schema
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rascul doesn't google use it or something? can google not use mf2?
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gRegorLove Yeah, I think Google uses some of it in search results.
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gRegorLove I don't think Google uses mf2 yet. Did use mf1 before, not sure if they do anymore.
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gRegorLove mf1 used to be in their recommendations iirc. Might still use it, but not be documented well.
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@AaronGustafson @arnorb @patrickbjohnson Yeah, build issue. I’m gonna delete and re-publish once I sort out the issue (timeout checking webmentions). (twitter.com/_/status/766028976011767808)
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miklb aaronpk I wonder if that's related to your mention of webmention.io being slow.
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miklb Iknow my build times run long, but assumed it was something on my end
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aaronpk does he use webmention.io?
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miklb yes, his jekyll plugin uses it. It checks for received mentions on each build to cache locally
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aaronpk the site doesn't seem slow, but processing webmentions is definitely lagging
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miklb I use the same plugin.
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miklb albeit slightly modified
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aaronpk can you check if it's slow because it's waiting for webmention.io to respond?
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miklb not exactly sure how to do that, I know when I profiled my build times, it was due to checking for mentions. Takes about 5 minutes to process ~500 posts
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miklb granted some posts don't have links and some have several
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@miklb @AaronGustafson @arnorb @patrickbjohnson is the timeout on checking for webmentions to cache? (twitter.com/_/status/766031435627106305)
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aaronpk i would be curious if that's the slow part
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miklb he just replied that it is one specific mention, thinking it might be an uncaught exception
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aaronpk i could try updating webmention.io to build out JSON files of the mentions, so that retrieving them would just be fetching files off the disk instead of a bunch of database queries
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miklb I don't know how many people use the plugin, or have a large collection of posts to check to know if it would be worth the work.
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miklb https://twitter.com/AaronGustafson/status/766032303705448452
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Loqi [@AaronGustafson] @miklb Yeah, when URLs go away, they throw errors. The caching may need to be refactored.
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miklb https://twitter.com/AaronGustafson/status/766032458357891072
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Loqi [@AaronGustafson] @miklb The question is: How often do you check a potentially rotten URL before you assume it’s never returning?
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@aaronpk @AaronGustafson @miklb If a tweak to webmention.io would help, I'm open to suggestions! (twitter.com/_/status/766032757080285184)
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@AaronGustafson @aaronpk @miklb Pruning stale links from webmention.io would definitely reduce the lookups on our end, but… (twitter.com/_/status/766033134538416132)
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aaronpk miklb: does that script go fetch the original source URL of the webmention?
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miklb it stores all links from each post in one cache file, then checks against each for received, then stores the mention in a different cache file.
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miklb oh, wait, nevermind, that's for sending
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miklb is now confused
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aaronpk me too
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miklb this is what the received cache looks like https://github.com/miklb/miklb.github.com/blob/jekyll/.cache/webmentions_received.yml
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miklb you can navigate up to the .cache folder to see the others
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miklb I don't know what he means by stale links.
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aaronpk okay that is my confusion too
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@AaronGustafson @miklb The we mention URL. So someone linkblogs a post of yours & webmention.io collects it. But when you try to pull it it 404s. (twitter.com/_/status/766037109979357184)
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miklb hmm. I think that's different than what I'm experiencing in slow build times. Mine might be mroe about the querying. I don't think I've experienced what he's talking about.
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miklb s/mroe/more/
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miklb domain not responding maybe
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aaronpk so he does go fetch the original source URL?
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aaronpk rather than just using the contents that webmention.io reports?
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aaronpk my intent was definitely to have webmention.io be the only site you need to get data from, so that your site wouldn't have to go fetch each webmention individually
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miklb I'm trying to read through the plugin and decipher exactly what is going on :)
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miklb not very well mind you
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miklb yes, seems checking original source
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aaronpk aha
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aaronpk well removing that should speed it up significantly :)
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aaronpk all the data from the source should be available in the data you get from webmention.io
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aaronpk and if it's not, then it's a bug
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@aaronpk @AaronGustafson @miklb Do you get data from the source that's not in the webmention.io response? I tried to include all data in the JSON. (twitter.com/_/status/766039838399209472)
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miklb aha
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@aaronpk @AaronGustafson oh interesting. Have you found data at some pages that webmention.io missed? Could file bugs on it for that. (twitter.com/_/status/766040673262809088)
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loqi.me created /WCAG (+111) "prompted by bear and dfn added by bear" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /WCAG (+24) "/* See Also */ new section" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /WCAG (+44) "KevinMarks1 added "http://leaverou.github.io/contrast-ratio/" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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bear aaronpk - clef login is causing IndieAuth to give me an invalid_state error
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aaronpk logging in where?
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bear the wiki
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aaronpk huh, have you deleted your indieauth.com cookies recently?
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bear it's working, the redirect from indieauth is going to https://indieauth.com/?error=invalid_state
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bear nope
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aaronpk try that, could be related to the cookie fiddling i was doing
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bear k
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bear same error - tho this time clef did ask me to verify what clef site I was on
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aaronpk weird
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bear no worries - it works if I go back in the browser
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