#dev 2016-10-20

2016-10-20 UTC
#
bear fortunately I can change my nginx default setting
ChrisAldrich and AngeloGladding joined the channel
#
dansup y'all doing amazing work
#
bear hmm, I don't see why my response for a source query is failing
#
bear the test doesn't specify what item it isn't finding
KevinMarks, bear_ and thebaer_ joined the channel
#
bear huh, both of the source tests are failing the "Returned the requested properties with the appropriate values." part
#
bear oh poo, "if no properties are specified, then the response must include all..."
#
bear grumbles about magic defaults
#
bear welp, returning type, published, content and category isn't working either
#
KartikPrabhu what does "all" mean?
#
KartikPrabhu bear: try including a type as in h-enrtry or something
#
bear I did
#
bear for "all" I set it to: type, content, published, category
#
bear grrrr
#
bear type isn't a property
#
bear so even tho it's associated with the rules for properties, it isn't *a* property
#
bear counts to 10
#
bear welp, that didn't fix anything
#
bear for test 602 i'm returning {"type": ["h-entry"], "properties": {"category": ["micropub", "test"], "content": ["Test of querying the endpoint for the source content\n"], "published": ["2016-10-20 00:52:28"]}}
#
bear which sure does look right
gRegorLove joined the channel
#
KartikPrabhu why is content not a string? it has a \n in it
#
bear the example result in the spec shows: "content": ["Hello World"],
#
aaronpk It's checking that the response is an exact match of what it sent
#
aaronpk maybe the new line is throwing it off?
#
bear so I took my list of lines and returned it
#
KartikPrabhu yeah I did mean the "\n"
#
bear prepares to grumble again
KevinMarks joined the channel
#
bear yea, it was the training newline :/
#
bear my suggestion would be to use the PHP variant of the Python startswith() routine
#
bear because now i'm special casing my content string to match the test
#
bear technically I should be able to return [ "Test of querying the endpoint\n", "for the source content"]
#
martymcgui.re edited /events/2016-10-19-homebrew-website-club (+127) "/* Photos */ Baltimore" (view diff)
#
bear had to file an issue for this one aaronpk - seems smelly that a testing tool is making me change how text is managed for my site
#
aaronpk Interesting
#
aaronpk that does seem reasonable
#
martymcgui.re edited /events/2016-10-19-homebrew-website-club (+93) "/* Blog posts */ add Baltimore notes" (view diff)
#
bear is oddly happy that aaronpk has called one of my thoughts reasonable
#
aaronpk lol
#
tantek double-edged and deserving of further analysis. space handling in text can either be over specified/restricted (thus undesirably limiting user authoring intentions etc.) or under specified (thus resulting into interop failure).
#
tantek it's one of the hardest balances / edge cases to get right in UX / format / protocol design
#
bear oh completely agree
#
tantek and yeah, bear's expression of concern is valid
#
bear I have a solution tho
#
bear hmm, maybe not
#
tantek means there's something worth looking into to see if the changes he's being "forced" into are fixing bugs, or limiting his code's features
#
bear I was thinking that a small addition to the spec would say "the content array MUST be split by newline"
#
bear but even that makes me itchy
#
tantek yep
#
bear for now I am going to do that but still keep the issue open
#
bear as splitting it into "content": [
#
bear "Test of querying the endpoint for the source content",
#
bear ]
#
bear ""
#
bear worked
#
KartikPrabhu weird! does it affect actual posting with micropub or just the tests?
#
bear from my vantage - just the test
#
bear the create sends (python tuple version) -- ('content', u'Testing accepting access token in post body')
#
bear but because I use markdown it gets a newline added
#
bear booyaa - with that I pass every test except for the 4XX ones
KevinMarks_ joined the channel
#
loqi.me created /IndieWeb_Bingo (+138) "prompted by ChrisAldrich and dfn added by GWG" (view diff)
tantek joined the channel
#
aaronpk !
KevinMarks joined the channel
#
www.boffosocko.com edited /IndieWeb_Bingo (+285) "alternates; sample; fun" (view diff)
#
aaronpk bear: you just made me realize I should add a test to check that the endpoint is returning the source content specifically, like not returning autolinked HTML
#
bear I was also wondering why you didn't use the source query for the 4XX tests - to verify the changes
#
dansup anyone know if there is a php lib for micropub?
#
aaronpk bear: I didn't want to prevent you from passing the 4xx tests if you don't support the source query
#
bear I do now :)
KevinMarks_ joined the channel
#
bear after implementing all of these the last couple of days, I feel that query and update|add|delete are pretty core and should be considered minimal implementation
#
bear if anything the source query really points out the oddities that indieweb is with mf2 json stuff
#
KartikPrabhu dansup: couldn't find a standalone micropub php lib on https://indieweb.org/Micropub/Servers but Wordpress and Drupal seem to have implementations
#
KartikPrabhu and also Craft
#
KartikPrabhu what is kaku
#
Loqi kaku is an open-source Python Flask app that can be used to handle incoming micropub, webmention and token requests https://indieweb.org/Kaku
#
bear I should probably add "opinionated" to that :)
#
Loqi yea
#
KartikPrabhu bear: it seems both kaku and ronkyuu doe webmentions. any reason?
#
bear kaku is a webmention endpoint implementation - ronkyuu is the library to validate and work with them
#
KartikPrabhu aah go it
#
bear kaku uses ronkyuu to process the GET request
#
KartikPrabhu got* also is it possible to separate out micropub in the same way?
#
bear I will be stripping out the micropub helper code from kaku into another library
#
bear yes
#
bear kaku converts things to a json blob with details - so I should be able to have a micropub lib that takes that mf2 json
#
bear i'll find out soon - just now got kaku to pass all of the micropub.rocks tests
#
KartikPrabhu awesome! I can then try to update my micropub
#
KartikPrabhu you'll have to find a new name for the micropub lib though, kaku suited best ;)
#
bear I make move kaku's code over to another project and morph kaku back to a lib
#
KartikPrabhu :thumbs-up:
#
KartikPrabhu also would be great if it uses python objects instead of JSON
#
bear I have a name for the micropub lib set aside: hakkan 発刊 - to publish
#
KartikPrabhu I thought hakkan was your site generator?
#
dansup thanks KartikPrabhu :)
#
bear it was/is
#
bear project names for me are really fluid sometimes :)
#
KartikPrabhu yeah same here until I use them enough to make them fixed and not confuse myself :)
#
bear yep
#
bear but yea, I want micropub to be able to be passed a raw requests lib object and convert it to python items
#
bear to smooth out some of what I consider php/mf2/indieweb oddities
#
KartikPrabhu great will keep track of kaku/micropub progress and use it on my own site. I seemed to have lost touch with micropub changes/improvements to write the code myself
#
bear the kaku source shouldn't be too bad in a short bit to read/use
#
bear but right now it's a mess
#
KartikPrabhu I am better/faster at reading code than writing it :P
#
KartikPrabhu or should I say reading specs
#
bear it's a small amount of code to handle the incoming request, break it down into some dicts and then act on it
#
dansup im making a gnu/social clone that will use a lot of indieweb/ostatus stuff
#
dansup getting tired of patching gnu/social, been running a popular instance for a few years
AngeloGladding joined the channel
#
tantek.com edited /events/2016-10-19-homebrew-website-club (+1) "/* Photos */ sort - most people!" (view diff)
AngeloGladding, gRegorLove, KevinMarks, chrisaldrich1 and cweiske joined the channel
#
KevinMarks Sounds interesting dansup
KevinMarks_ joined the channel
#
@karenbwill RT @ReadersGazette BLOG Indie Author Answers by Jim Heskett http://www.thejugglingauthor.com/indieauth/ Get help writing your book #bookbloggers 23 (twitter.com/_/status/789047333682028544)
#
jkphl.is edited /2016/Berlin (+288) "/* IndieWebCamp Hoodies */" (view diff)
KevinMarks and loicm joined the channel
#
ben_thatmustbeme woo, syndications working in my new app
#
bear ben_thatmustbeme++
#
Loqi ben_thatmustbeme has 175 karma (3 in this channel)
#
ben_thatmustbeme would anyone like a preview. I think i have all the functionality really. Just UI stuff like notifying when a post is actually created
#
ben_thatmustbeme and showing link
#
ben_thatmustbeme well https://inklinks.io/inkstone/
#
ben_thatmustbeme woops https://inklings.io/inkstone/
#
aaronpk oh hey i am already logged in
#
ben_thatmustbeme oh, yeah, you had logged in before when you tested, so it has it stored in localstorage
#
ben_thatmustbeme you should probably log out and log back in though
#
ben_thatmustbeme a lot has changed since then so it might need that
#
aaronpk oops your error message is almost invisible
#
aaronpk it's way at the bottom
#
Loqi agreed.
#
aaronpk https://aaronparecki.com/uploads/Screen-Shot-2016-10-20-10-33-00.png
#
calumryan.com edited /events/2016-11-02-homebrew-website-club (+397) "/* Where */" (view diff)
#
calumryan.com edited /events/2016-11-02-homebrew-website-club (+218) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
chrisaldrich1 joined the channel
#
ben_thatmustbeme an error message actually showed up?
#
ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: what error message? i haven't added any yet (i didn't think)
#
aaronpk look at the screenshot at the bottom
#
ben_thatmustbeme oh, sorry, missed the screen shot link
#
ben_thatmustbeme thanks
tantek joined the channel
#
ben_thatmustbeme huh, aaronpk, i wonder what i'm doing wrong on that.
#
aaronpk you're not doing anything wrong there, but you should display the error better :)
#
ben_thatmustbeme i mean why the error is coming up
#
ben_thatmustbeme instead of logging in
#
ben_thatmustbeme oh
#
ben_thatmustbeme ohhhhh
#
aaronpk i was returning "https://pk.dev" at some point in the flow
#
ben_thatmustbeme okay
#
aaronpk which is what i use when i test things on my laptop off of the internet
#
ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: hows that
#
aaronpk what changed?
#
ben_thatmustbeme do a hard refresh
#
ben_thatmustbeme the error message moved
#
ben_thatmustbeme changed size, color
#
ben_thatmustbeme or just a refresh, doesn't need to be a hard refresh
#
ben_thatmustbeme i'm not going to make it offline fully until i work out more bugs
#
ben_thatmustbeme the caching of those script files gets annoying otherwise
#
aaronpk well when i refresh i get the "state" error but it's still at the bottom
#
KartikPrabhu legal stuff but might be useful for people using Facebook's React: http://www.elcaminolegal.com/single-post/2016/10/04/Facebook-Reactjs-License
#
ben_thatmustbeme ah, deploy didn't go right
#
ben_thatmustbeme there we go
#
aaronpk whoa it crashed chrome trying to refresh
#
ben_thatmustbeme wow
#
ben_thatmustbeme i crash chrome all the time, but thats just because its linux
#
ben_thatmustbeme it runs much better on firefox
#
aaronpk it still looks the same
#
aaronparecki.com edited /Private-Webmention (+96) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
gRegorLove joined the channel
#
ben_thatmustbeme now i'm getting all kinds of errors
#
ben_thatmustbeme crazy
#
ben_thatmustbeme okay
#
gregorlove.com edited /next-hwc (+0) "next" (view diff)
#
gregorlove.com edited /Main_Page (-190) "/* Homebrew Website Club */ next" (view diff)
#
ben_thatmustbeme i fixed some issues, I got the new error message location
#
ben_thatmustbeme now sure how you are still getting a cached file though aaronpk
#
aaronpk there it goes
#
aaronpk much better
#
ben_thatmustbeme i think i went a little over board on the settings
#
ben_thatmustbeme but you can add pretty much anything you want to it
#
ben_thatmustbeme ever
#
ben_thatmustbeme plus actually delete fields from the UI completely
#
ben_thatmustbeme all those setting saving in localstorage
#
gregorlove.com edited /User:Gregorlove.com (+73) "/* Interests */ fix authorship for reply-context" (view diff)
tantek joined the channel
#
gregorlove.com edited /User:Gregorlove.com (-239) "/* Interests */ clean up list" (view diff)
tantek joined the channel
#
ben_thatmustbeme ick, nothing more frustrating than no error but just silently failing
#
ben_thatmustbeme yay, and it successfully lets you know when your post is submitted, and gives you a link
#
Loqi giggles
tantek joined the channel
#
ben_thatmustbeme cool, at least i know someone else was able to log in
#
aaronpk i think it's not sending h=entry
#
aaronpk and errors are not shown so I couldn't tell why it wasn't posting
#
aaronpk but i can log in!
#
ben_thatmustbeme oh, again, it may be pulling up old data
#
ben_thatmustbeme i need a better method to clear everything automatically
#
ben_thatmustbeme go to settings and reset to default
#
ben_thatmustbeme that should take care of it
#
ben_thatmustbeme anyone else brave enough to try :P
#
aaronpk aha that worked
#
aaronpk the "new post created" doesn't link to the post
#
aaronpk it looks like it shoved my whole HTTP response into the link
#
aaronpk it should look for the location header and get the URL from there instead
tantek joined the channel
#
ben_thatmustbeme indeed. that is fixed now
#
tantek cool: https://twitter.com/w3c/status/789120542737596416
#
Loqi [@w3c] First Public Working Draft of PubSub https://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/5887
#
tantek and two days ago: https://twitter.com/w3c/status/788276976331157504
#
Loqi [@w3c] W3C Invites Implementations of Micropub https://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/5883
#
ben_thatmustbeme cool
#
ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: any thoughts otherwise?
#
ben_thatmustbeme obviously i still have a lot to do on the front end
#
ben_thatmustbeme error messages,etc
#
aaronpk I should try it out on my phone
#
Loqi yea
#
KevinMarks It still doesn't like known redirecting to user profile
#
KevinMarks Hm, I wrote a post with title and content, and it only posted the content - do I need to change type?
#
KevinMarks http://known.kevinmarks.com/2016/and-post-when-i-return-to-connectivity
#
Loqi [Kevin Marks] And post when I return to connectivity
#
KevinMarks It only offers note or check in, not post
#
KevinMarks If I add post as a type it doesn't work, but no error
#
dansup works on a php implementation of micropub
#
ben_thatmustbeme Kevin marks, you can add that option in the settings
#
ben_thatmustbeme S/Kevin marks/KevinMarks/
#
ben_thatmustbeme Loqi?
#
ben_thatmustbeme Oh hmm. If mp-type is hidden, it won't send anything
#
KevinMarks I show type. But maybe I have the type wrong
#
tantek what is mp-type?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "mp-type" yet. Would you like to create it?
#
KevinMarks Oh, should be entry?
#
KevinMarks If I change the mp-type options, the saved post only shows me the previous ones
#
aaronpk uh yeah, what is mp-type
#
KevinMarks mp-type is the post type being used in micropub. In Known it chooses a post template.
#
loqi.me created /mp-type (+117) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by KevinMarks" (view diff)
#
Loqi ok
#
aaronpk wat
#
aaronpk micropub doesn't have a post type
#
tantek lolol
#
tantek good thing I ask the dumb questions ;)
#
bear mp-type I thought was old school micropub (at least I have that check in my code)
#
KevinMarks https://github.com/idno/Known/blob/master/IdnoPlugins/IndiePub/Pages/MicroPub/Endpoint.php
#
KevinMarks I just switched inkstone from note to entry to get a title in known
#
aaronpk but...the whole point of microformats and micropub is to avoid explicit typing
#
KevinMarks (after reading that code, and seeing that mp-type defaulted to note there)
#
tantek right
#
tantek (to aaronpk )
#
tantek so what's still using mp-type, why, and should it be explicitly deprecated somewhere?
#
bear sure, it is now - but I have a memory of the first time I was writing an endpoint for posting having to deal with mp-* fields
#
KevinMarks I'm with you, but known started with post types. Ben has talked about changing that, and that code looks like it will auto detect
#
aaronpk mp-action has been around
#
tantek where are these documented?
#
tantek and their current status?
#
tantek.com edited /CSS_Framework (+267) "add header image" (view diff)
#
KevinMarks So if inkstone didn't send an mp-type, maybe it would pick "entry"
#
KevinMarks mp-type << https://github.com/idno/Known/blob/master/IdnoPlugins/IndiePub/Pages/MicroPub/Endpoint.php
#
Loqi ok, I added "https://github.com/idno/Known/blob/master/IdnoPlugins/IndiePub/Pages/MicroPub/Endpoint.php" to the "See Also" section of /mp-type
#
loqi.me edited /mp-type (+110) "/* See Also */ new section" (view diff)
#
tantek this sounds like all sorts of potential confusion
#
aaronpk yeah i'm confused
#
aaronpk quill doesnt send mp-type and it works with Known, right?
#
tantek and that's *really* a bad sign
#
tantek when the spec editor is confused
#
aaronpk i don't know how mp-type got in there, and i can't find any trace of it on the /Micropub edit history
#
bear the places I saw it (that caused me to add support) was that Postly and some other tool supported it - back in late 2014
#
tantek aaronpk - this is precisely the "implementers adding extensions randomly" problem
#
tantek since it was never in the spec per se
#
bear well, this was pre spec ... so it's not random
#
tantek bear ??? before /Micropub was created?
#
bear it just falls into an edge case variant that the spec should acknowledge
#
bear yes
#
tantek because once /Micropub was created, that was the spec until it was submitted to W3C
#
aaronpk sep 2013 was the first time it called itself a spec: https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?title=Micropub&direction=next&oldid=5282
#
bear I don't think /Micropub was around in jan/feb of 2015
#
aaronpk micropub has been around way longer than 2015
#
bear wow - was it that long ago
#
tantek waits for apparently different data/assertions to resolve themselves
#
bear (and this is why I don't do dates)
#
aaronpk i created it on sep 22, 2013. this is the page as of the end of my editing on that day https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?title=Micropub&direction=prev&oldid=5378
#
bear in my brain (take that with a grain of salt) I don't remember micropub having the momentum it does now until the beginning of 2015 - sure it may have been around -- just observations as an implementor
#
tantek goes back to previous question - where did mp-type come from? who conceived it / first typed it? implemented it? etc.
#
aaronpk here's the first reference to clients that implemented it https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?title=Micropub&direction=next&oldid=8641
#
bear aaronpk - could this be a conflation from folks who have had to consume old style mf while also working on new micropub stuff?
#
aaronpk old style mf?
#
aaronpk like before mf2?
#
bear I think that's what I want to say - but seeing how bad I am with recent history i'm just going to be quiet
#
aaronpk honestly i think it just came from the laziness of programmers wanting explicit types to make the code easier
#
bear then let's shine a bright light on it and clearly mark it as deprecated
#
bear will happily remove all of those if checks from his code
#
aaronpk you have code that checks for mp-type?
#
bear yes, I patterned mine off of some earlier python parsing code I found
#
bear so those items have just been carried across
#
aaronpk wow, i had no idea
#
tantek old style mf has nothing to do with mp-type, never did
#
aaronpk i've never used mp-type on any clients or servers
#
tantek aaronpk - hence my point about it being an emergent mp-* extensions from implementers
#
tantek that never got documented
#
tantek where are mp-* extensions (ideas, proposals, etc.) documented?
#
tantek what is an mp extension?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "mp extension" yet. Would you like to create it?
#
aaronpk aha https://indieweb.org/Micropub-brainstorming#Explicit_Post_Types
#
aaronpk the example cited is of course the classic "post with location vs checkin with comment"
#
tantek oh dear
#
aaronpk well https://www.w3.org/TR/micropub/#reserved-properties links to https://indieweb.org/Micropub-extensions now
#
Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Micropub
#
tantek mp extension is /Micropub-extensions
#
loqi.me created /mp_extension (+32) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
#
Loqi ok
#
tantek what are mp extensions?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "mp extensions" yet. Would you like to create it?
#
tantek mp extensions are /Micropub-extensions
#
loqi.me created /mp_extensions (+32) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
#
Loqi ok
#
KevinMarks So both Ben's and bear have implemented mp-type
#
tantek but it was explicitly dropped right?
#
aaronpk it was never explicitly added
#
tantek or rather, never made it out of brainstorming
#
tantek yeah
#
bear I added "don't crash if you see this" support but I don't act on it
#
KevinMarks So known 1st looks at h= for type but lets mp-type override
thebaer joined the channel
#
tantek KevinMarks: that seems not good
#
aaronpk do any clients actually send that?
#
loqi.me created /NIPSA (+268) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
#
loqi.me edited /NIPSA (+59) "/* See Also */ new section" (view diff)
#
aaronparecki.com edited /p3k_naming_convention (+11) "/* Unused Names */" (view diff)
#
dansup hi, what is the best way to start contributing to the indieweb project? Register on the wiki?
#
aaronpk dansup: logging in to the wiki is a great start!
#
aaronpk but there is no single "indieweb project"
#
aaronpk do you already have a personal website? that's the place to start
#
dansup i have dansup.com, but i haven't done anything with it. I will register on the wiki and get my site up
#
dansup thanks for the advice aaronpk! Once I get my site up, I will work on my php implementation of the micropub spec
#
aaronpk cool! then you'll be able to use micropub clients to post stuff to your site!