#dev 2016-10-21

2016-10-21 UTC
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aaronpk I need an mf2 property for the list of people who can see a private post, aka who the post is shared with
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aaronpk see the Facebook screenshots on /private for an example
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aaronpk Facebook actually lists out each person when the message is shared with a specific set of people
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aaronpk im thinking either "visible-to" or "shared-with"
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aaronpk not a huge fan of using "share" since it's kind of vague/overloaded
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tantek indeed
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tantek what is share?
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Loqi share is a watered down verb that's used on the "social web" (and other platforms like Google's Android) to mean pretty much any action https://indieweb.org/share
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dansup heh
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tantek aaronpk - is there vocabulary you can re-use from ActivityPub ?
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aaronpk activitypub has "to" (and "cc")
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aaronpk (actually from activitystreams)
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aaronpk tho activitystreams also has "audience" and it's not entirely clear to me the difference https://www.w3.org/TR/activitystreams-vocabulary/#dfn-audience
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Loqi [James M Snell] Activity Vocabulary
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tantek Does ActivityPub have audience?
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aaronpk i believe activitypub only uses "to" and "cc" and "bcc" for what is called "targeting" https://www.w3.org/TR/activitypub/#targeting
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Loqi [Christopher Allan Webber] ActivityPub
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tantek huh - then I'm definitely confused about "audience" in ActivityStreams
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tantek I wonder if anyone implements "audience" (publishing and/or consuming)
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tantek is it "at risk"?
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loqi.me created /superuser (+243) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /superuser (+380) "expand, fix dfn, add why, how, examples, see also" (view diff)
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dansup aaronpk, what is the difference between activitystreams and activitypub ?
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dansup i am using activitystreams for my gnu/social clone
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KartikPrabhu what is activitypub?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "activitypub" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek dansup AS1 or AS2?
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dansup tantek, as2
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dansup the working draft
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tantek dansup great! we definitely need more implementation experience with AS2
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tantek it's a CR!
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dansup tantek, yes my bad! https://github.com/dansup/php-activitystreams
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KartikPrabhu what is activitystreams?
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Loqi https://indieweb.org/ActivityStreams
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dansup its not working yet, still have a lot of work to do
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tantek publishing or consuming?
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dansup tantek, it will support both
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dansup same with my micropub lib
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tantek awesome!
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dansup client/server and I hope to publish laravel packages too, because I am using laravel for a few projects
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dansup i ran a gnu/social instance for a few years on something called hyperboria, its a peer-to-peer IPv6 network with automatic end-to-end encryption, distributed IP address allocation, and DHT-based Source Routing
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dansup we like to think of it as the alternative/next-gen internet
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dansup and I need something more modern than gnu/social now
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ben_thatmustbeme Reading back
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tantek any/all feedback re: AS2 and/or Micropub is strongly welcome! Anything from editorial to challenges / problems / questions you come up with from the specs
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tantek feel free to ask informally, or file github issues! (both specs link to their github repos for issues)
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dansup thanks tantek!
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ben_thatmustbeme Tantek, aaronpk I started mp-type to distinguish between types that you cannot determine based on field. (note at a location vs check-in with text). (note vs snark)
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ben_thatmustbeme I was unaware that known used it as well
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ben_thatmustbeme Also mp-type in inkstone is a deletable field
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ben_thatmustbeme Bear, we should probably document all current usage of mp-type
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: is it still needed and if so why?
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ben_thatmustbeme For me, yes, they are different templates
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ben_thatmustbeme But the arguement for explicit typing has gone on for a long time
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: what "they" and why "they" need mp-type in particular
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ben_thatmustbeme I have different templates for a checkin with text vs note with a location attached
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ben_thatmustbeme Most others I have worked around
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tantek so let's solve that then
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tantek since that's one specific post type discovery case
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ben_thatmustbeme Also "snark"as a type, but more of a joke
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ben_thatmustbeme Now that is an interesting way about it. The arguement in the past has been that they are the same
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tantek not from a user perspective, which is the important part
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tantek we need to capture that somehow
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tantek regardless of what particular set of properties / values get created or not
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ben_thatmustbeme Sorry, i'm on mobile so a little slow to respond
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tantek no problem
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tantek this is worthy of some thinking, taking some time to figure out
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ben_thatmustbeme So in the simplest case, I could see just location and content being the only data on them
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ben_thatmustbeme The difference is what is the focus or primary content of the post
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tantek right
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tantek but more importantly, it may be that that focus or intent can only be captured by the client UI
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ben_thatmustbeme That's reflected in my display, small gps link, vs map showing position
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tantek rather than some aspect of those properties
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tantek yes yes obviously in the eventual display they look different
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tantek that's not the part that's as interesting
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tantek what's interesting is how does the user create one vs the other
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ben_thatmustbeme I'm just trying to think of a system that allows both. I think Facebook does both
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tantek that's probably worth documenting, e.g. screenshots of their UI creating one vs the other
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ben_thatmustbeme Hmm actually it does not appear you can do both
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ben_thatmustbeme At least not that I can tell
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tantek can you capture their checkin UI at least?
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ben_thatmustbeme I have screenshots on mobile, ill upload them later
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tantek sounds good
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ben_thatmustbeme And I did find it. You can only "check-in" by finding a page of a place (restaurants etc) and selecting check-in from there
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ben_thatmustbeme But you can update your status and add a location to it
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: I wonder if their "native" app has different checkin UI (more explicit)
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ben_thatmustbeme Hmm. No clue, I don't install their apps ever.
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ben_thatmustbeme Interesting that the UI is slightly different, check-ins don't let you post what you are eating
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KevinMarks_ Another odd variation there is swarm posse to foursquare
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KevinMarks_ Er. I meant instagram to swarm
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KevinMarks_ You add a location to a photo on instagram, that becomes a checkin with photo on swarm
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bear most of facebooks post options on their android phone app are exactly the same, once you pick one the other options are icons at the bottem
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gregorlove.com edited /Events (+29) "/* October */ +Portland" (view diff)
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gibberish.com edited /JSON-LD (+232) (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Events (+250) "/* 2016 */ SeaGL and indieweb session" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Events (+1) "archive 10/19 hwc" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /events/2016 (+2733) "/* 2016 */ archive July" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Events () "(-2733) /* Recent */ archive July" (view diff)
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gibberish.com edited /RDF (+617) "in case some poor soul stumbles here in need of actual info" (view diff)
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gibberish.com edited /RDF (+6) (view diff)
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gibberish.com edited /RDFa (+559) (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /2015/Germany/limited-audience-posts (+142) "dfn, link to etherpad" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com created /2015/Germany/auth (+209) "dfn, no etherpad notes to dump" (view diff)
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tantek huh
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gregorlove.com created /2015/Germany/linked-data (+1359) "etherpad dump" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com created /2015/Germany/microformats (+254) "placeholder, no etherpad" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com created /2015/Germany/webmention (+220) "placeholder, no etherpad" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com created /2015/Germany/hosting (+225) "placeholder, no etherpad" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com created /2015/Germany/offline (+222) "placeholder, no etherpad" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com created /2015/Germany/indieweb-phonestuff (+236) "placeholder, no etherpad" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com created /2015/Cambridge/chromify (+234) "placeholder, no etherpad notes" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com created /2015/Cambridge/future (+226) "placeholder, no etherpad notes" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com created /2015/Cambridge/analytics (+236) "placeholder, no etherpad notes" (view diff)
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tantek I wonder where the notes went. IRC perhaps
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loqi.me created /DYN (+116) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by bear" (view diff)
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aaronpk gRegorLove: fyi i'm getting an HTTP 200 response even though it says i need to authenticate
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gRegorLove still?? argh. That's what I fixed last night. I thought.
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gRegorLove With the token or just a regular get?
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gRegorLove I didn't check with the token, just get. Clearly something's messed up with the token handling part.
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aaronpk ok yeah with no token I get 401 now
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aaronpk with the token I get 200, but the content still says please authenticate
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loqi.me created /issue (+223) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /GitHub (+243) "POSSE an issue" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /issue_tracker (+48) "linky linky" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /issue (+251) "expand!" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /issue (+298) "added some examples" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /Project_Shield (+325) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /GitHub (+75) "/* POSSE an issue */ see examples" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /issue (+12) "see also posts" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /✏️ (+18) "edit" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /edit (+20) "emojicon" (view diff)
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sknebel What is ✏️?
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Loqi An edit (AKA diff, change) is a special type of reply that indicates a set of suggested changes to the post it is replying to. A collection of (presumably related) suggested edits in open source is often called a patch or pull request https://indieweb.org/%E2%9C%8F%EF%B8%8F
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tantek.com edited /venue (+18) "emojicon ?" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /? (+19) "venue" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /“ (+23) "quotation" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /quotation (+25) "emojicon “" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /posts (+138) "/* Kinds of Posts */ add a few emojicons, update a few frequencies" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /? (+19) "issue" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /issue (+40) "emojicon posttype" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /issue (+231) "why, how" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (-94) "next HWC PDX SF" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /GitHub (+216) "/* DDoS collateral damage */ DYN attack today takes GitHub offline" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /Shopify (+91) "prompted by gRegorLove and dfn added by gRegorLove" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Shopify (+32) "link dfn, see also" (view diff)
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tantek.com moved /Issues to /wiki/resolved/2013 "all old issues either inapplicable (OpenID) or long since solved"
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tantek.com edited /wiki/resolved (+85) "link to even older resolved issues" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /wiki/resolved (+50) "for current issues" (view diff)
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gRegorLove https://indieweb.org/wiki/redesign has some issues listed, if you're consolidating wiki issues
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tantek.com edited /wiki/resolved/2013 (+125) "historical only, see current issues" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /issues (+7) "now more applicable" (view diff)
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tantek gRegorLove: those may have been separate as pre-flipping the switch for the new redesign
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tantek also there were issues with the simple redesign in 2016, vs the larger effort in 2014
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tantek not going to try to figure out which is which right now
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tantek but if you like, go for it
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gRegorLove Is there a general "wiki issues" page?
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tantek what is wiki issues?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "wiki issues" yet. Would you like to create it?
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gRegorLove The further we get from the 2016 redesign in July, the less likely anyone is to remember to look at 2016/newskin#Issues, is my thinking
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tantek wiki issues are /wiki/#Suggestions
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loqi.me created /wiki_issues (+30) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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tantek gRegorLove: indeed - the problem is that processing those is more a matter of triage
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gRegorLove Re: the blockquote formatting, checked Wikipedia and seems they only do the indent currently.
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tantek since they were part of a "new" effort, we have to decide whether to just "punt" on some of the issues that we didn't bother fixing before flipping the switch
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tantek what are wiki issues?
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Loqi https://indieweb.org/wiki_issues
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tantek the issues there ^^^ are all "we really should fix these" issues
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gRegorLove Cool, I'll check it out.
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tantek any remaining 2016 issues need re-evaluation as to whether we really should or shouldn't fix them.
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tantek since we obviously didn't bother to fix all of them before flipping the switch
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tantek therefore maybe the remaining ones didn't matter that much?
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gRegorLove I think indented blockquote looks good, generally. A bit off if it's in a ul, like https://indieweb.org/site-deaths##We%E2%80%99re+printing
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tantek or if they did, they should be carried forward yes
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gRegorLove Yeah, I think the issues on 2016/redesign were after the switch. They do seem low priority, though.
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gregorlove.com edited /wiki_issues (+0) "fix redirect" (view diff)
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gRegorLove What are wiki issues?
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Loqi wiki may refer to: https://indieweb.org/wiki_issues
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gRegorLove Oh, cool. I didn't realize the list of wiki suggestions was pulled in from github
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tantek what is mp-type?
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Loqi mp-type is the post type being used in micropub https://indieweb.org/mp-type
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tantek ^^^ aaronpk that sounds normative but is misleading since mp-type is not in the micropub spec
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aaronpk oh gosh
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tantek probably worth fixing, especially since it just went out in the newsletter
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tantek just saying
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aaronpk i don't even know what to call it
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aaronparecki.com edited /mp-type (+62) (view diff)
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www.funwhilelost.com edited /Planning (+109) "/* Potential Cities */" (view diff)
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tantek it's an mp-* extension right? that was (is?) a stopgap measure in an attempt to distinguish checkin and note with location posts?
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tantek just saw the edit - it started with Known? I thought ben_thatmustbeme started it
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gregorlove.com edited /Planning (+28) "/* Potential Cities */ Seattle" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /events/2016-11-02-homebrew-website-club (+51) "Bellingham hiatus for holidays" (view diff)