#dev 2017-01-26

2017-01-26 UTC
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tantek chrisaldrich++ great work on https://indieweb.org/WordPress_with_Bridgy!
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Loqi chrisaldrich has 3 karma in this channel (13 overall)
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tantek !tell chrisaldrich I'm confused by this section: https://indieweb.org/WordPress_with_Bridgy#Rel-me_links - because shouldn't the IndieWeb Plugin already take care of your rel=me links for you? This section doesn't even mention the IndieWeb Plugin, and that you need to set it up with the links to your social media profiles. It should mention that right?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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loqi.me created /wordpress_bridgy (+34) "prompted by miklb and dfn added by gRegorLove" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /WordPress_with_Bridgy (-26) "/* Overview of Bridgy's functionality */ clarify jargon" (view diff)
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martymcgui.re edited /events/2017-01-25-homebrew-website-club (+91) "/* Blog posts */ add HWC Baltimore notes" (view diff)
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martymcgui.re edited /events/2017-01-25-homebrew-website-club (+161) "/* Photos */ add Baltimore 2017-01-25" (view diff)
tantek and gRegorLove joined the channel
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loqi.me created /IWS (+28) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /IndieWebSummit (+28) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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aaronpk thinks he doesn't understand CSS
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loqi.me created /Indie_Web_Summit (+28) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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aaronpk line height is not having desired effect, seems to be being overridden by something higher up despite having a more specific rule
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aaronpk i can make the line height *larger* with my rule, but not smaller
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KartikPrabhu example
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aaronpk ?
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aaronpk let me push up this HTML change
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KartikPrabhu cool
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aaronpk oh wait i can share it from my laptop ?
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tantek heh
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aaronpk i'm on iffy wifi so it might be slow
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aaronpk https://pk.tunnlr.xyz/2017/01/25/1/beer-of-trust
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 Looking forward to meeting everyone at Beer of Trust! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJYiVbDAAoJECdsKBc0bWBW6DQIAKCjbzWrO35Xlin7WveDXTDJ 8YXjQwIdOE...
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tantek wat
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aaronpk oh god thanks loqi
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aaronpk take a look at the .pgp-signature class
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aaronpk i can increase the line height with that rule, but i can't make it smaller
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tantek why not?
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aaronpk no idea!
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aaronpk i don't get it
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aaronpk there's a line-height rule on an element that it's inside setting it to 1.4285em
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tantek I'm looking at it now in FF devtools
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aaronpk if i disable that, then i can change the line height like i'd expect
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aaronpk ohhhhhh
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aaronpk display: block
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aaronpk if i set display: block on the .pgp-signature span then i can set the line height
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aaronpk i hacve no idea why that makes sense
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tantek because line-height does not affect inline flow elements
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tantek because inline flow elements do not have lines
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tantek only block elements have lineboxes that stack on top of each other
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aaronpk tries to wrap his head around that
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tantek and thus only block elements make sense to control the height of such boxes
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KartikPrabhu oh! yeah that's why ^
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tantek whereas an individual span on the line does not get to say "this line should be this tall"
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tantek because then all the spans on the line would fight
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aaronpk well this looks better now
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aaronpk will try to remember the rule about inline elements
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tantek.com edited /private_posts (+1527) "/* Use Cases */ Sharing With Fewer Friends, some quotes, use-case goal thoughts" (view diff)
KevinMarks, tantek, gRegorLove, gRegorLove_, GWG and KevinMarks_ joined the channel
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tantek.com edited /Template:Homebrew_Website_Club (+108) "2017 March dates & links" (view diff)
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KevinMarks_ I started looking at fixing my hovercards for 100days today, and they are a right layout mess
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KevinMarks_ Trying to make fixed size layouts of variable length content in css is extra hard
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tantek.com edited /Template:Homebrew_Website_Club (+270) "2017 May" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Template:Homebrew_Website_Club (+108) "2017 June" (view diff)
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tantek alright, HWC dates through June in the template at least
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tantek and I booked MozSF for all the days that I'm in town (which is most of them as it turns out)
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equivalentideas.com edited /Internet_Archive (+572) "/* How to */ Add an example Ruby method for sending a URL for backup by the Internet Archive" (view diff)
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@jevdemon Just realized webmentions are now a W3C Tech Rec. https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention (twitter.com/_/status/824554817955651585)
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jeremycherfas.net edited /IRC_People (+56) "/* Nicknames */" (view diff)
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seblog.nl edited /IRC_People (+0) "/* Nicknames */ abc'tize cleverdevil" (view diff)
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jkphl.is edited /2017/Nuremberg (+572) "/* Venue sponsor */" (view diff)
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jkphl.is edited /2017/Nuremberg (-1) "/* Platinum sponsor */" (view diff)
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seblog.nl edited /Getting_Started (+199) "added link to the WP guide + there are multiple approaches" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /getting_started_on_Known (+39) "prompted by sebsel and dfn added by sebsel" (view diff)
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seblog.nl edited /Getting_Started (+33) "added Known" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme trying to figure out how i to best store location
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aaronpk location of posts?
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ben_thatmustbeme so in the past i have used location which i store geo:.... and location_name with just a plaintext "logal international airport" etc
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aaronpk i store an h-card, h-adr or h-geo now
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ben_thatmustbeme trying to fit that in to micropub's way of doing it and keeping it so its always the same, not sometimes json, sometimes, url, sometimes geo
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ben_thatmustbeme trying to fit that in to micropub's way of doing it and keeping it so its always the same, not sometimes json, sometimes, url, sometimes geo
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ben_thatmustbeme non-stable internet at the office
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aaronpk why does it need to always be the same? sometimes you just have different data
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ben_thatmustbeme if i store as an h-card always i can store different data below that, but i suppose as long as its always the same data type (json) its okay
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ben_thatmustbeme the multiple types is annoying
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aaronpk it's not necessarily accurate to always store an h-card either though
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aaronpk h-card is for named places
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ben_thatmustbeme h-card with an h-adr below it
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ben_thatmustbeme or h-card with a url only
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aaronpk for me, the location property can be a couple different kinds of objects, and i just sort it out when i render the post
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aaronpk i have an object that is created with the value of the location property, whatever it is, and then there's a method there to for example get the latitude, which knows how to dive in to the h-card/h-adr/whatever and find it
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ben_thatmustbeme so let me put it as my use case, i have yet only ever done 2 things with locations, posted geo: data or posted text place names
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ben_thatmustbeme not actual addresses, just like "Ikea" or "the esplanade"
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ben_thatmustbeme but i can definitely see wanting to put a URL (one that isn't an h-card there) like the website for veggie galaxy when i was there
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ben_thatmustbeme which is why i was sort of fine doing the h-card always, but when all i'm posting is geo data going location->adr->geo seems rather silly
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aaronpk it's sort of a false precision thing using an h-card to store just a lat/lng too
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aaronpk i think your sense of "it seems silly to use location->adr->geo" is the reason i wrote a function that handles doing that
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aaronpk so my usage is basically `$location->latitude` and it works because $location is actually an object that knows how to extract the latitude from whatever the location property is
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ben_thatmustbeme so if you have geo and location name (which i do a lot)
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ben_thatmustbeme then you store it as an h-card?
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aaronpk yeah
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ben_thatmustbeme hmm, interesting
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aaronpk it's also worth noting that latitude can be a property on an h-card too
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ben_thatmustbeme and in micropub you just return whatever h-* is stored there and edit that
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aaronpk hm, i haven't actually tried editing the location property via micropub yet
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ben_thatmustbeme huh, so it is that does make it simpler
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ben_thatmustbeme acutally that makes it a lot simpler
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ben_thatmustbeme its not that i'm actually storing it as a card, i don't ever determine those types of things until i display it
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ben_thatmustbeme storing it just as a json object with logitude, latitude, name, or url and based on what is there i detemine where it is
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ben_thatmustbeme what*
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snarfed.org edited /quotation (+152) "bridgy publish support" (view diff)
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aaronpk ooo
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aaronpk fancy
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snarfed.org edited /quotation (+133) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ snarfed quote tweet" (view diff)
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seblog.nl edited /Main_Page (+22) "restored h-card" (view diff)
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sebsel Let's see http://indieweb.nl
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Loqi Homebrew Website Club
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sebsel :(
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sebsel http://indieweb.org
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aaronpk scratches head
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sebsel well it thought it was a h-event.
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sebsel .nl == .org, just a redirect.
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sebsel .org was not cached, I think
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aaronpk oh it needs a u-url on whatever the main object is
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sebsel Ah1
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aaronpk since there's a bunch of h-* objects on the page it has no idea which is the "primary" without that
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sebsel there is no url there yet. I can make 'Indieweb' a link
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miklb are there any visual representations of m2? I'm thinking along the lines of how the CSS Box model can be diagramed
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seblog.nl edited /Main_Page (+41) "h-card: add url" (view diff)
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sebsel http://indieweb.org ? :D
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sebsel checks XRay directly
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sebsel https://indieweb.org ?
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aaronpk hm slash? i might need to normalize that on XRay side
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aaronpk also i think Loqi doesn't expand indieweb.org links at all
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sebsel http://indieweb.nl
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Loqi Homebrew Website Club
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sebsel http://indieweb.nl/
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Loqi Homebrew Website Club
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sebsel Should take this to indiechat now probably
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aaronpk try redirecting .nl to https
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@ADPase #indieauth https://twitter.com/ADPase/status/728926133538816000/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/824658165006528512)
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sebsel oh boy, that's ugly https://seblog.nl/temp/media-endpoint/9e54b8-schermafbeelding-2017-01-26-om-17.41.55.jpg
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aaronpk haha yeah
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Loqi hahaha
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sebsel http://indieweb.nl/ > goes to https now
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Loqi IndieWeb
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sebsel yeah.
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aaronpk oh hey that worked
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sebsel a link to "/" should work too right?
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sebsel and then style it white
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aaronpk oh yeah actually
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seblog.nl edited /Main_Page (+1) "h-card: styling" (view diff)
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sebsel so weird, it's not rendered as a link at all :/
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sebsel But it seems to work.
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aaronpk oh mediawiki is stripping the href attribute
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aaronpk "security"
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sebsel ah :/
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sebsel but we can't add classes and styles to [[]] syntax right?
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aaronpk correct
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sebsel I don't know if this is cached, but .. it sees an url.
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sebsel http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https%3A%2F%2Findieweb.org%2F
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aaronpk yeah i bet the mf2 parser is resolving the relative URL which is an empty string
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sebsel oh well it works now
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ascraeus.org created /User:Ascraeus.org (+357) "Created page with "[https://ascraeus.org Daniel Goldsmith] is an IndieWeb newbie, living in Cork, Ireland. == Current Progress == Site using {{Hugo}} Fully marked up h-card and h-entry Using [htt..."" (view diff)
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@KathyLeeDrupal Hey! What do you think of Linkback: Implement Webmentions? I'm trying to build consensus! https://www.drupal.org/node/2846789 (twitter.com/_/status/824663484482850818)
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ascraeus.org edited /User:Ascraeus.org (+76) "/* Current Progress */" (view diff)
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aaronpk i had a crazy idea to resurrect the idea of microp3k, basically making a trimmed down version of p3k that is easy to install like wordpress, and using that to spin up the list of microblogs for my various projects that i keep wanting to do.
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aaronpk sometimes i feel like main p3k is overkill
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sebsel aaronpk++ Zegnat and I where just talking about something like that in DM (Dutch Message).
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Loqi aaronpk has 29 karma in this channel (1189 overall)
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sebsel in my case not p3k, but getting the Twitter-like thing out of my Kirby.
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sebsel Because it's not really Kirby anymore.
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aaronpk Kirby is much more of a CMS than a timeline-based thing right?
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sebsel yeah, that's why.
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sebsel with 8000 posts I needed an indexer.
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sebsel That's a problem with Wordpress too: it's a CMS, not a timeline thing.
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sebsel you can make it do timeline, but it's not efficient.
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aaronpk at least wordpress started out as a timeline
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sebsel oh, that's true.
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aaronpk it would also mean i'd have to package up more things as libraries, like extracting the processing code from XRay separately from the API it has
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aaronpk i'm trying to make a list of all the things it would need to do
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www.boffosocko.com edited /Getting_Started (+267) "suggestion to document; port silo content from upcoming site-deaths" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks: here is a SVG problem for you (I am thinking about it too) http://mediatemple.net/blog/tips/map-rollovers/
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KartikPrabhu problem: make SVG elements highlight/change color, when hovering over a separate list of their names without JS :)
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aaronpk without js? tricky
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KartikPrabhu I was thinking some image map thing might be do-ale
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KartikPrabhu if not do-able that is a good resource for something like face-tags
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KartikPrabhu what is face tags?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "face tags" yet. Would you like to create it?
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KartikPrabhu what is face tag?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "face tag" yet. Would you like to create it?
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KartikPrabhu what is person tag?
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Loqi A person tag (AKA people tag) is a person mention that is also a tag on a post that refers to a specific person by URL rather than just a word or phrase, and is done as an explicit tag by the user, beyond just mentioning a person via hyperlink / h-card / or @-name https://indieweb.org/person-tag
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KartikPrabhu weird I thought this was discussed and documented
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sebsel what is facepile?
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Loqi A Facepile is a way of showing interactions for a page/site by using profile pictures https://indieweb.org/facepile
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sebsel that?
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KartikPrabhu no, the UI where you can tag people's faces in photos
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sebsel ah
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KartikPrabhu like what FB does
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KartikPrabhu I know this was discussed at IWC NYC 2014 on the way to dinner :P
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KartikPrabhu actually is there any interest here from people to markup faces with people's URLs?
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gRegorLove People have usually resisted when I try to write URLs on their face.
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aaronpk ?
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gRegorLove The face tagging you're talking about should be on one of the tag related pages. ben_thatmustbeme implemented it, I thought. Or was working on it.
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KartikPrabhu gRegorLove: I am mainly thinking of the UI to show it, rather than where/how people want to put them
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gRegorLove https://indieweb.org/photo#Tagging
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KartikPrabhu oh yeah so it is documented :)
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gregorlove.com created /face_tags (+22) "prompted by KartikPrabhu" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu particulerly https://indieweb.org/area-tag#person_tag_as_area_tag
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gregorlove.com created /face_tag (+22) "prompted by KartikPrabhu" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu goes back to writing his conference talk
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KevinMarks Hovwr is hard, you could do it with links and fragments, but hover is more difficult.
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ben_thatmustbeme yeah, we had worked on face tagging but the markup for it was strange and didn't work at the time
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ben_thatmustbeme I actually just started removing that from my database as i start to migrate to laravel
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ben_thatmustbeme simplifying the database before i transition over
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KartikPrabhu ben_thatmustbeme: would be good if you archived such posts (in some form) for future reference
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ben_thatmustbeme KartikPrabhu: the issues hit were when we started to write the code for it, i didn't ever have a public post for it
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ben_thatmustbeme i am not deleting any posts
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KartikPrabhu I see
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ben_thatmustbeme actually, with the exception of one post that i broke
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ben_thatmustbeme https://ben.thatmustbe.me/follow/2015/5/11/7/
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Loqi followed
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ben_thatmustbeme i had tested it
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aaronpk hmm, if I were to write a WebSub hub as a Laravel plugin would that be useful to anyone else?
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /follow (+119) "/* Ben Roberts */" (view diff)
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www.boffosocko.com edited /User:Boffosocko.com (+2046) "update itches" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme as a laravel plugin? or as its own laravel service?
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aaronpk plugin
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aaronpk for using in existing laravel apps
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ben_thatmustbeme i suppose it would certainly be a help to me
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aaronpk i'm reading https://laravel.com/docs/5.3/packages to see what it takes
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KevinMarks We do have prior art for putting people's handles over an image https://indieweb.org/events/2017-01-11-homebrew-website-club#San_Francisco_Photo
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KevinMarks An image map could add urls. Or do it with svg. Chrome for Android does hover on long press, which is a bit odd.
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KevinMarks Looking at my hovercards yesterday, they were not good. I need to rethink how to do those.
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tantek.com edited /Feedly (+1387) "Features stub, IndieWeb Examples stub, IndieWeb Friendly stub, new issue: logged out home page is js dr (for no good reason, it's just a brochure)), see also Woodwind" (view diff)
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KevinMarks Though I am wondering about hover as a UI mode at all.
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aaronpk certainly seems to not be the mode of the future given the rise of touch devices
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gregorlove.com edited /Feedly (-24) "simpler dfn" (view diff)
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KevinMarks It may map better to VR
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KevinMarks Though there it's more like stare
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KartikPrabhu what is Feedly?
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Loqi Feedly is a feed reader service https://indieweb.org/Feedly
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cleverdevil.io created /Reader_Self (+170) "Created page with "Reader Self is a self-hosted RSS aggregator and reader written in PHP. You can find it at http://readerself.com and on GitHub at https://github.com/readerself/readerself"" (view diff)
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kartikprabhu.com edited /Feedly (+224) "/* IndieWeb Friendly */ update tested indieweb support" (view diff)
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cleverdevil.io created /Nextcloud_News (+252) "prompted by tantek" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu I don't see any SF photo on this page in FF https://indieweb.org/events/2017-01-11-homebrew-website-club#San_Francisco_Photo
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KartikPrabhu aah tracking protection for Twitter images
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www.boffosocko.com edited /Nextcloud_News (+36) "dfn tag" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Reader_Self (+41) "dfn link, see also" (view diff)
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gRegorLove what is reader self
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Loqi Reader Self is a self-hosted RSS aggregator and reader written in PHP https://indieweb.org/Reader_Self
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www.boffosocko.com edited /Feedly (+126) "+chrisaldrich; webactions" (view diff)
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gRegorLove What is nextcloud news
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Loqi Nextcloud News is an "app" for the Nextcloud platform that provides an RSS aggregator and feed reader functionality https://indieweb.org/Nextcloud_News
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gRegorLove What is Nextcloud?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Nextcloud" yet. Would you like to create it?
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gregorlove.com edited /feed_reader (+67) "/* Examples */ alpha sort, add readers" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /feed_reader (-25) "/* Examples */ fix link for Owncloud News app" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu should use quick sort not alpha sort^^
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tantek what are Service Workers?
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Loqi service workers are scripts that run in the background, separate from tabs with the site open, and are commonly used for offline functionality and push notifications https://indieweb.org/service_workers
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bear.im edited /User:Bear.im (+85) "add itches" (view diff)
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bear.im edited /Pinboard (+147) "add Screenshots for Pinboard Twitter archiving" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /archive (+59) "add some intro disambig for "the Archive"" (view diff)
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bear.im uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:PinboardTwitterAddAnAccount.png]]""
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bear.im uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:PinboardTwitterActivate.png]]""
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bear.im uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:PinboardTwitterConfiguration.png]]""
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bear.im uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:PinboardTwitterAuthorizePinboard.png]]""
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tantek You know how there's this ongoing debate about how we need a "real" event system to replace our event pages etc. because they're so cumbersome etc. etc.? Here's an example of an event where the *only* link that remains working for it is a dumb *wiki* page about it: http://microformats.org/wiki/events/2010-03-15-sxsw-open-science - all the "real" event systems, Upcoming, Plancast, and even SXSW's own event system pages all di
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Loqi Open Science: Create, Collaborate, Communicate
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tantek what is Upcoming?
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Loqi Upcoming, also known as Upcoming.org was (perhaps) the first social event sharing silo, then acquired and shutdown by Yahoo, and is now in the process of being recreated, currently open source on github at https://github.com/upcoming/upcoming-www https://indieweb.org/upcoming
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tantek what is upcoming.yahoo.com?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "upcoming.yahoo.com" yet. Would you like to create it?_
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tantek upcoming.yahoo.com is where Yahoo moved the [[Upcoming]] site after purchasing it, and where all URLs now just redirect to the Yahoo home page; you can fix those URLs by ... ?
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loqi.me created /upcoming.yahoo.com (+207) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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tantek drat, the Upcoming archive that's up doesn't appear to provide URLs by event ID :(
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aaronpk really? wekrd
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tantek so like I can't find the equivalent for http://upcoming.yahoo.com/event/5560741/
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tantek or if someone can, let me know the heuristic or just document it on /upcoming.yahoo.com
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aaronpk that's surprising, i can ask andy
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tantek cool
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tantek I'd love a way to programmatically repair those links
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tantek anyway the larger point still stands
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gRegorLove This reminds me, I should take an IA snapshot of my Upcoming.org backup. Just in case :)
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tantek any new "event system" is enough of an admintax that unless someone proposing it is willing to sign up for maintaining it, it's kind of a no go
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tantek basically we have evidence of dumb/awkward wiki event pages outlasting *all* event systems, so yeah, someone will have to do better
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tantek (maybe Calagator is an exception)
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aaronpk calagator continues to amaze me
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aaronpk they do a lot of community organizing around development though. it's not just one person.
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gRegorLove I don't see any hidden metadata about events in the archive pages either, so looks like just the slug
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gRegorLove They're /event/[slug]-[number]. The number might be the event ID, but that then requires knowing the event title
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aaronpk i think that event doesn't exist
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aaronpk he did restore the original URLs
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aaronpk so like http://archive.upcoming.org/event/282162/ works given the original http://upcoming.org/event/282162/
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tantek no I'm getting a 502
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gRegorLove Ah, yeah just noticed I could take out the slug and just the number works
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aaronpk yeah i think maybe that event just didn't get included in the restoration
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aaronpk it was not a database restore, it was restored from crawling the internet archive
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gRegorLove e.g. http://archive.upcoming.org/event/8846 same as http://archive.upcoming.org/event/eisley-and-snow-patrol-8846
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tantek well supposedly IA had/has it: https://web.archive.org/web/20130422133656/http://upcoming.yahoo.com/event/5560741/TX/Austin/Open-Science-Create-Collaborate-Communicate/Austin-Convention-Center
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Loqi Open Science: Create, Collaborate, Communicate
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aaronpk hmm
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tantek so... ?
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aaronpk strange
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tantek and regardless, it shouldn't return "502 Bad Gateway" ! that means there's a bug in the code.
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tantek if it doesn't exist, that should be a 404
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tantek http://archive.upcoming.org/event/5560741/
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tantek yeah the IA page eventually loaded for me
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aaronpk yeah must be a bug