#dev 2017-04-05

2017-04-05 UTC
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loqi.me
created /Granola (+168) "prompted by [cleverdevil] and dfn added by [cleverdevil]"
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loqi.me
created /Open_mHealth_Schemas (+205) "prompted by [cleverdevil] and dfn added by [cleverdevil]"
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loqi.me
created /HumanAPI (+158) "prompted by [cleverdevil] and dfn added by [cleverdevil]"
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cleverdevil.io
edited /Health (+15) "/* Ideas */"
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[eddie]
https://files.slack.com/files-pri/T03QR2B2T-F4UJ1GB7C/screenshot_2017-04-04_21.11.04.png?pub_secret=b099084756&name=Screenshot 2017-04-04 21.11.04.png Yes!!! automated git commits to my repo when my files in my content section changes. The final step is just configuring the micropub endpoint to tweak the YAML frontend data to match my current structure.
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www.boffosocko.com
edited /Akismet (+110) "Plugin for Known"
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Loqi
morning!
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petermolnar
note to photo people: Amazon Rekognition is not too mature for photo tagging.
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petermolnar
and I have an interesting observation: none of the big image recognition service (Google Vision API, Amazon Rekognition, Flick; I have not yet tried Watson) takes the in-image GPS in account when trying to guess the contents. I partly understand this, because it's not what you exactly see on the picture, and, of course, it can be wrong or altered, but sometimes it would come extremely handy.
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@klagefall
@fabeblau Schon in Ordnung. Das sollte ein Test sein, ob die Webmentions via Twitter funktionieren. Siehe: http://klagefall.de/notizen/20170330
(twtr.io/1QJS2ojGqcs)
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ben_thatmustbeme
trying to get mastodon's docker instances running, no bueno
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ben_thatmustbeme
i just want to fix their mf2
leg joined the channel
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aaronpk
if it's just rails it shouldn't be too hard to install natively without docker
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aaronpk
how should an event mark up RSVPs it received?
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aaronpk
are they comments with an rsvp property?
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aaronpk
ohh, p-attendee
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[kevinmarks]
I pointed out the line to fix in mastodon a while back
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[kevinmarks]
But adding a test to stop it being broken again would be good
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aaronpk
alright, thoughts on this mf2 markup for upcoming.org? http://pin13.net/mf2/?id=20170405153619036
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Loqi
Test Event
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martymcguire[m]
looks good from here! the images on the live example have src="undefined", not sure if that's in scope for what you're working on.
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aaronpk
That's just cause I didn't set up s3 keys
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aaronpk
oh hey tantek
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aaronpk
good timing. need your feedback on upcoming mf2
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Loqi
Test Event
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aaronpk
in particular: the "attendee" property is list of h-cards, this seems to match what's documented on h-event
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tantek
good morning
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tantek
seems like we are gaining critical mass for attendee
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aaronpk
I translated "recommend" to "like", since it seems to have a similar function, and also uses a star icon. however, there is very little information on the page, so i made the "like" property just h-cards!
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Loqi
*yawn*
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tantek
with real world examples
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tantek
(beyond the editor of the spec ;) )
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aaronpk
comments were straightforward, although they are not from elsewhere so i made them h-entry instead of h-cite, and their URLs have fragment IDs
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tantek
I wonder if the like should be an h-cite with an h-card or is that too much
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aaronpk
that would require me to add too much markup
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aaronpk
nice thing about comments is the fragment IDs parse through XRay properly! http://upcoming.tunnlr.xyz/event/test-event-qr4tkf8q54#comment-1
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Loqi
[Aaron Parecki] Here’s a comment
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tantek
no, h-cite is for something that's posted somewhere else and it's not
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tantek
like + h-card is interesting / novel
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ben_thatmustbeme
can someone help me try to pick out any issues with mf2 on this https://ben.thatmustbe.me/static/test1.html
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ben_thatmustbeme
its a local dev i'm running it from so its not pretty
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ben_thatmustbeme
i think the mention is kinda funky
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KartikPrabhu
ben_thatmustbeme: which mention?
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ben_thatmustbeme
there is a mention of @bob
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KartikPrabhu
ben_thatmustbeme: you want the u-url and p-nickname inside the h-card
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KartikPrabhu
otherwise they become the u-url and p-nickname of the parent with h-card inside
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ben_thatmustbeme
i think thats better now
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KartikPrabhu
yeah looks right
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ben_thatmustbeme
now to fix the individual page
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ben_thatmustbeme
err individual post page
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Loqi
[mattl] @LogicalDash Thanks :)
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ben_thatmustbeme
h-cites are not inside the h-entry
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KartikPrabhu
yeah the inreply-to won't work
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ben_thatmustbeme
ick, i can't quite figure out how to get the reply context to be a chain, right now i have it just replying to all of the previous feed
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Loqi
[Ben Roberts] @bob weird that i can't reply from other websites
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ben_thatmustbeme
so it looks like everything in the reply-chain is being replied to directly :/
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gregorlove.com
edited /accessibility (+639) "update dfn to cover physical environments, add stub section with links"
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: the other way to look at this is as a markup example that may need another way of indicating replying etc.
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tantek
one of the vague principles in microformats is to be flexible to fit the markup of the page
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gregorlove.com
edited /2017/Bellingham (+296) "/* Where */ Venue!"
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ben_thatmustbeme
tantek: trying not to change ordering of items, just classes
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ben_thatmustbeme
more likely to get the pr accepted
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ben_thatmustbeme
i think i have it worked out
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ben_thatmustbeme
everything outside of the direct context and reply now are just h-cite
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: exactly, not change order of markup
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tantek
ideally microformats should just add class names to existing markup and "just work"
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tantek
so when there's a use case that's not quite satisfied with that, we have to figure out alternatives
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tantek
e.g. like we have overtime with /authorship
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ben_thatmustbeme
yes, its the way it was written it was adding markup to ALL ancestors
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aaronpk
i've had to add a few elements to upcoming to make it work
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ben_thatmustbeme
and so i had to work out a way to target only the closest ancestor
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tantek
aaronpk, hopefully just wrapping spans?
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aaronpk
and a common pattern i'm finding that i struggle with is how author avatars are marked up
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ben_thatmustbeme
yeah, sometimes you need to add a wrapper here or there
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aaronpk
yeah mostly just wrapper classes. i'm trying to not change anything fundamental
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tantek
aaronpk: interesting, those are likely worth documenting
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tantek
in case we have to do an "avatar discovery" mini-spec similar to /authorship
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aaronpk
yeah the pattern is basically you want the photo hanging to the left of the comment, and sometimes the markup doesn't allow that
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aaronpk
like, there's no way to wrap both the photo and the name in an h-card without also encompassing some of the comment text
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tantek
like there is no div that contains both the photo and the comment?
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aaronpk
well there is, but it also contains the whole comment
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tantek
aaronpk what does the alt of the photo have?
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tantek
if the alt has the name, you can get it from there
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aaronpk
but then you don't get the author URL
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aaronpk
or in this case the nickname also
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tantek
the photo is not linked to the author URL?
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aaronpk
correct
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tantek
that's. unusual
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aaronpk
i guess
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aaronpk
either way you're still losing the ability to express something
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tantek
um, nearly every social network links people's photos to their profile
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tantek
so I would guess it's an omission
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tantek
*accidental
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aaronpk
which contains p-nickname
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aaronpk
so there's no way with this markup to enclose the image URL, author URL, name and nickname in an element
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aaronpk
moving the author name and URL to the image solves everything except the nickname
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tantek
interesting. I feel like I may have run into this exact problem with my own notes markup
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aaronpk
i have with mine as well
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Loqi
[Ben Roberts] @bob weird that i can't reply from other websites
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tantek
it's probably ok to not bother with "nickname" because it really is account name
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ben_thatmustbeme
make sure i'm not missing anything
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tantek
rather than actual nickname that people would call you in person
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ben_thatmustbeme
i didn't add that
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ben_thatmustbeme
but i can remove it
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aaronpk
should i not mark up the nickname then?
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tantek
yeah I wouldn't bother, unless it's an actual nickname
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ben_thatmustbeme
username != nickname
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tantek
as part of the URL it's already an implicit account name / username
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tantek
right
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ben_thatmustbeme
okay, updated with that fix
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ben_thatmustbeme
well its re-uploading that now
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aaronpk
what's the child h-card in the comment for?
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ben_thatmustbeme
it was already there
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aaronpk
oh it's the mention
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aaronpk
in the text
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aaronpk
there's a lot of children objects on the main object, what are they?
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aaronpk
also what's the link to this on mastodon so i can see how it looks with css?
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gregorlove.com
edited /2017/Bellingham (+587) "archive Initial Planning notes"
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gregorlove.com
edited /Planning (-317) "Bellingham planned"
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tantek
home page!
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loqi.me
created /O2 (+167) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by [cleverdevil]"
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gRegorLove
Looks like it's already there
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loqi.me
edited /P2 (+9) "[cleverdevil] added "[[O2]]" to "See Also""
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[keithjgrant]
CSS Grid is going to make it tricky to wrap microformats around the right content in some instances
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[keithjgrant]
(that markup up above made me think about that)
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tantek
really?
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[keithjgrant]
Yeah. All grid items in a grid must be sibling elements
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[keithjgrant]
(at least until Subgrids get added to the spec, but that will be a while)
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[keithjgrant]
similar issue w/ flexbox too, in theory, but I think practical examples would be much more rare
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KartikPrabhu
[keithjgrant]: until sub-grids show up one could use grid-items as div-containers with content in them
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[keithjgrant]
yeah, there are workarounds. But if you want to guarantee alignment of, say, avatars in a series of comments, there won't be a way to wrap an MF class around both the avatar and the comment that appear in each row of the grid
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www.boffosocko.com
edited /O2 (+112) "link and WordPress category; github version"
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[keithjgrant]
avatars not the best example, since you can probably hard-code a set width on those. but some other piece of text that might be variant in length: domain, timestamp, etc
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www.boffosocko.com
edited /P2 (+85) "P2 resolved posts"
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KartikPrabhu
[keithjgrant]: hmm yeah, I see the problem now
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ben_thatmustbeme
aaronpk: this is an local dev env
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ben_thatmustbeme
with css it looks exactly the same, i didn't change anything really
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ben_thatmustbeme
as to what all the extra children are,
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ben_thatmustbeme
this is just 5 direct replies, and this is the link to the 3rd one
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ben_thatmustbeme
so it has its context as the p-in-reply-to but also has just a cite of what that replies to
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ben_thatmustbeme
similarly comments on comments are not cites instead of it thinking that everyone directly replied to this
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aaronpk
alright, i'm happy withthe mf2 on upcoming event pages. now to move to venue pages.
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tantek
oh! have they restored venue pages? or are these just new venue pages?
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aaronpk
new venue pages
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aaronpk
i don't think the archive is part of this repo
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aaronpk
hm, already hit a snag
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aaronpk
the venue page links to the foursquare URL for the venue, but doesn't have a link to itself
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aaronpk
so adding u-url to the foursquare link makes it look like the canonical venue URL is foursquare
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tantek
aaronpk <data class="u-url" value=""></data>
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aaronpk
:sigh: k
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tantek
or if you really want to get all canonical
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tantek
<data class="u-url u-uid" value=""></data>
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aaronpk
this jade template thing is pretty funny
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aaronpk
it's kind of like i'm creating a data structure that gets turned into html that gets turned back into a data structure
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tantek
wish there was a way to build a relative URL that stripped any ? or #
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tantek
aaronpk, welcome to dataception
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Loqi
Magnolia's Corner
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aaronpk
now user pages
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ben_thatmustbeme
aaronpk: does that make sense for the mastodon stuff?
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aaronpk
ben_thatmustbeme: it's just hard to see what that page is supposed to look like without CSS
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aaronpk
ben_thatmustbeme: like, which post on that page is the primary post? it's hard to tell with no css
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aaronpk
"weird that i can't reply from other websites" seems to be the primary post? and the things above that are reply context, and below are comments?
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loqi.me
created /global_timeline (+28) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek"
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loqi.me
edited /timeline (+22) "tantek added "[[public timeline]]" to "See Also""
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aaronpk
ben_thatmustbeme: I don't understand why the post with "hi there @broberts" is a child of the h-entry when it's the top post on the page
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gregorlove.com
edited /2017/Bellingham (+1360) "/* Participating */ travel and lodging"
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gRegorLove
Here's a mastodon.social thread for reference: https://mastodon.social/@sarahjeong/1653278
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Loqi
[sarah jeong] @chr are likes really florps
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aaronpk
oh another challenge is with date ranges
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aaronpk
there is no good solution here because the date range is generated by a library, so adding mf2 markup requires support by that library
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aaronpk
i added support specifically for this to my php library
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aaronpk
so i'm adding hidden <time> elements with start/end instead
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aaronpk
alright, i think i have everything done now
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gregorlove.com
edited /2017/Bellingham (+194) "/* Notes */"
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aaronpk
ben_thatmustbeme: you got mastodon running locally right? can you try subscribing to @aaronpk@aaron.pk and tell me where it crashes?
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tantek
huh? can't you just subscribe to a URL?
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aaronpk
it uses webfinger to look up the atom feed for a user
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tantek
I used to be able to in statusnet
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tantek
so that should theoretically still work
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aaronpk
so it first looks at aaron.pk/.well-known/host-meta with the account provided
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aaronpk
to find the atom feed
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aaronpk
then there is some other stuff about salmon and signatures i can't figure out
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aaronpk
and that's when i run away screaming
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tantek
i.e. it would do hub+feed discovery on the URL and if it liked it it just subscribed
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tantek
salmonprotocol--
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Loqi
salmonprotocol has -1 karma
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aaronpk
this does not appear to be very error tolerant
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tantek
waits for someone to deploy a Known instance called WellKnown
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aaronpk
er, i missed a step in the decription
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tantek
and then offer free accounts to all former "The Well" users
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aaronpk
first it looks at http://aaron.pk/.well-known/host-meta to find the webfinger endpoint
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aaronpk
then does a webfinger request
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KartikPrabhu
wait! it looks at a BIN file to find atom feed?
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[kevinmarks]
Does the pubsubhubbub hub have a way of telling the subscribers that the origin url has changed?
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Loqi
[Chris Coyier] Little Stuff about Markdown I Always Forget and have to Google
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tantek
GWG: I just heard from Jeremy Zilar, he is looking at getting event space in NYC for indiewebcamp
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aaronpk
KartikPrabhu: lol yeah that's webfinger
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aaronpk
well, not bin, but a weird xml format
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KartikPrabhu
aaronpk: oh ok FF told me it was a BIN file when I clicked the link
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KartikPrabhu
probably because it has no extension/mime-type?
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aaronpk
oh i didn't set the right content-type header on mine
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KartikPrabhu
yeah that is probably the cause of that
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aaronpk
great example of why host-meta is not a good solution
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aaronpk
ok content-type header is set right now
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KartikPrabhu
yes, it does say "xrd-xml" now
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tantek
lol xrd run away
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KartikPrabhu
yeah didn't open it because why!?
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tantek
maybe feed it to kevinmarks unmung to see what it does
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tantek
maybe it will jsonify it ;)
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KartikPrabhu
in my world XRD = X-Ray DIffraction
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tantek
so it has a rel to itself. ok
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tantek.com
edited /Planning (+80) "/* Planning */ Jeremy Zilar available to help co-organize IWC DC"
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aaronpk
so the one thing I've learned from mastodon which may be useful to us is how the "remote follow" works
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tantek
probably worth writing it up
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tantek
though I detest that the UI is bleeding "remote" into the text
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tantek
why isn't it just "follow"? that is, as a user I should never see a "Remote Follow" button (which is what you see when you view someone's profile)
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aaronpk
ugh yeah
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aaronpk
the remote/local distinction is a weird artifact
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aaronpk
but, here's the cool part
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aaronpk
you're on someone's blog, and you see a "follow" button
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aaronpk
click, takes you to a new page on their site, which has a form input to "enter your URL"
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aaronpk
once you enter your URL, their server does a GET request to your site to find your "following" endpoint. either as an HTTP Link header or an html link rel.
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aaronpk
then it redirects you to your following endpoint with a parameter in the query string, url=http://url.to.the.blog.you.were.on
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aaronpk
now you're on your own interface, with your own authentication context, so you can log in however, or are probably cookied, and you can confirm the follow action, all which is under the control of your own software
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tantek.com
created /Template:jeremyzilar (+570) "create since I used it"
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tantek.com
edited /Template:jeremyzilar (+10) "one more copy/pasta"
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tantek
aaronpk, yes that flow makes sense. just s/remote follow/follow
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tantek
so does that require a new protocol and new discovery?
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tantek
IIRC OStatus didn't have anything for that
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tantek
anything *standard
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tantek
hmm, sounds like a web action with specific rel discovery underneath
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tantek
that is, you can replace all the above about "following" someone with "liking" something and it could work the same
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aaronpk
OStatus does!
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aaronpk
I can't find the docs on it ironically
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aaronpk
and for some reason people don't like to have web pages up at the URLs they use for these link rels
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tantek
like the actual rel value is a URL?
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gRegorLove
aaronpk: Now that venue's confirmed, can we get 2017.indieweb.org/Bellingham set up, including indieweb RSVP and tito links? Let me know if we can push updates to that through github or something.
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tantek
and this is why using URLs for rel values is basically no better than a string, so you might as well just use a string and stick it in a registry :P
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tantek
I think this might be fundamental reason why RDF (which assumes URLs for all names of properties etc.) is a lot more fragile than advocates want to admit
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gRegorLove
Free tito registration, not the $5
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tantek
oh wait gRegorLove is actually having a productive conversation, my bad :)