#dev 2017-04-11
2017-04-11 UTC
[chrisaldrich] joined the channel
# 
gRegorLove Yeah, it's a huge mess.
# gRegorLove Have to click the "in reply to" then *uncheck* people to remove them. Super easy. /s
# 
tantek is anyone up to speed on Diaspora's latest federation protocol efforts? https://diaspora.github.io/diaspora_federation/
[kevinmarks] joined the channel
[cleverdevil] and [kevinmarks] joined the channel
miklb, KartikPrabhu, tantek and [cleverdevil] joined the channel
cweiske, loicm_, barpthewire, tantek and miklb joined the channel
# 
jkphl.is created /events/2017-04-12-homebrew-website-club (+2701) "Created page with "<div class="h-event vevent"> <img style="width:100%" class="u-featured" src="https://indieweb.org/images/9/95/hwc-nbg-header.jpg" alt="Joschi, Sebastian, Nadine, Jule, Dirk, Isab..."" (view diff)
[kevinmarks] joined the channel
# 
bjoern.stierand.org edited /events/2017-04-12-homebrew-website-club (+13) "/* Nuremberg */" (view diff)
[kevinmarks], singpolyma, KevinMarks, barpthewire, KevinMarks1, KartikPrabhu, tantek, loicm_ and [cleverdevil] joined the channel
# 
miklb !tell GWG my php is poor, and not sure where %1s is coming from here https://github.com/dshanske/indieweb-post-kinds/blob/master/includes/views/kind.php#L86 can you enlighten me?
# 
KartikPrabhu miklb: looks like the "first variable"
# KartikPrabhu it is likely replaced by the value of the variable $embed after that
# KartikPrabhu yeah, from the $embed variable I suppose
# KartikPrabhu miklb: you wouldn't add u-url inside the e-summary in most cases. though it will work
# miklb https://gist.github.com/miklb/3821eb26080943f41373035f2f8e72db that's what that line inserts inside the blockquote from what I can tell. The only place the tweet url is used, which is why I thought the u-url should go there
# KartikPrabhu what's the url on your site?
# KartikPrabhu I mean the link to this post you are trying to POSSE
# KartikPrabhu aaronpk: yes
# KartikPrabhu miklb: yeah adding a u-url inside the e-summary does work
miklb joined the channel
# miklb almost feels like this should be it, https://github.com/dshanske/indieweb-post-kinds/blob/master/includes/class-kind-view.php#L246
gRegorLove, barpthewire and loicm_ joined the channel
# 
Loqi GWG: miklb left you a message 44 minutes ago: my php is poor, and not sure where %1s is coming from here https://github.com/dshanske/indieweb-post-kinds/blob/master/includes/views/kind.php#L86 can you enlighten me?
KevinMarks and [cleverdevil] joined the channel
# gRegorLove miklb: That %1s, the "1" is the argument number. It can be used for argument swapping. Not really necessary in that line of code since there's only one argument, $embed
# gRegorLove Also can be used to put the same argument multiple places in the string
loicm_ joined the channel
# gRegorLove Wait, no. I'm thinking of %1$s
# gRegorLove I think it's just the width specifier, then. At least one character.
# gRegorLove Oops, guess those were for GWG actually ^
# 
[cleverdevil] Grrrr... anyone here good with `mod_rewrite`?
# [cleverdevil] I can't for the life of me get this rule to stick ?
# 
ben_thatmustbeme [cleverdevil]: i'm okay with it
# 
martymcguire[m] i don't consider myself "good" but i have dealt with a lot of mod_rewrite pain!
# ben_thatmustbeme better to just ask though
# martymcguire[m] yeah let's have it
# [cleverdevil] OK ?
# [cleverdevil] Use case: I want `/timeline` or `/stream` on my site to be internally rewritten to return the content that is available at `/content/bookmarkedpages/statusupdates`.
# [cleverdevil] Tried: `RewriteRule ^timeline$ /content/statusupdates/bookmarkedpages`
# [cleverdevil] (Along with many other things...)
# martymcguire[m] some usual gotchas: is rewrite engine enabled with RewriteEngine On?
# [cleverdevil] I'm doing this inside of the `.htaccess` bundled with Known
# [cleverdevil] It has the `RewriteEngine On` setting in there.
# martymcguire[m] might be that you need to indicate that it's a PassThrough
# martymcguire[m] e.g. "RewriteRule ^timeline$ /content/statusupdates/bookmarkedpages [PT]"
# martymcguire[m] https://httpd.apache.org/docs/current/rewrite/flags.html#flag_pt
# martymcguire[m] otherwise apache assumes the path is for a file
# [cleverdevil] That causes a 500 error.
# martymcguire[m] ooh
# [cleverdevil] I thought flags were like: `[PT]`
# martymcguire[m] ah, i should have read further: PT is implied in .htaccess
# [cleverdevil] Gotcha.
# [cleverdevil] Well, at least I know my `.htaccess` is being read!
# martymcguire[m] always good to sanity check :}
# [cleverdevil] Indeed!
# ben_thatmustbeme is that the last rewrite rule [cleverdevil]] ?
# ben_thatmustbeme as in, do you need [L]
# [cleverdevil] I've tried it as the first and the last.
# [cleverdevil] And in the middle, too ?
# [cleverdevil] Currently, I am putting it at the top, just under `RewriteEngine on`
# martymcguire[m] playing with this on my site as well.
# martymcguire[m] weirdly, if i make it a redirect, it works.
# [cleverdevil] Oh, interesting.
# [cleverdevil] If I do this: `RewriteRule ^timeline$ https://cleverdevil.io/content/statusupdates/bookmarkedpages [L]`
# [cleverdevil] It does a 301
# martymcguire[m] e.g. "RewriteRule ^timeline$ /content/statusupdates/bookmarkedpages [R,L]"
# martymcguire[m] otherwise i just get 404s
# [cleverdevil] If this: `RewriteRule ^timeline$ /content/statusupdates/bookmarkedpages [L]`, I get a 404.
# martymcguire[m] the https:// triggers an automatic redirect, since it's not set up to proxy remote content by default
# [cleverdevil] Yup, I am thinking that, for some reason, it views all of the rules as remote content.
# [cleverdevil] Not sure why...
# [cleverdevil] Stumped!
# gRegorLove Is there a RewriteBase?
KevinMarks joined the channel
# [cleverdevil] No RewriteBase defined.
# [cleverdevil] Yeah, it should likely *not* be an `[L]` rule.
KevinMarks joined the channel
# 
loqi.me edited /private_posts (+92) "tantek added "https://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/federatedsocialweb/wiki/SWAT1_use_cases#Private_content" to "See Also"" (view diff)
[chrisaldrich] joined the channel
# 
[chrisaldrich] cleverdevil I'm far from an expert, but this here's an example I used back in December to rewrite the locations of some of my RSS feeds which may help: http://boffosocko.com/2016/12/18/rss-feeds-a-follow-up-on-my-indieweb-commitment-2017/
# [cleverdevil] Thanks!
# [cleverdevil] I'll take a look.
# [chrisaldrich] cleverdevil, btw, I set up oAuth on known.boffosocko.com, so you should be able to install https://github.com/mapkyca/KnownKnown on your personal Known instance and syndicate to the other one, the github page has some reasonable directions.
# [cleverdevil] Oh, cool.
# 
tantek.com edited /Mastodon (+450) "see issues on the github instead, and one primary instance looks fairly resolved" (view diff)
# tantek ben_thatmustbeme: hey https://indieweb.org/Mastodon#IndieWeb_Support still says "this patch" a bunch - can we change that to "as of 2017-XX-YY" since those patches are now in core presumably?
# ben_thatmustbeme i was waiting until PR gets accepted
# ben_thatmustbeme its still not there
# ben_thatmustbeme but i can update when i get time, though apparently now its failing some build tests
loicm_ joined the channel
# Loqi A quote tweet (also known as a "retweet with comment") is a reply on Twitter to an original tweet that displays the entirety of the original in a reply-context below the reply text https://indieweb.org/quote_tweet
# tantek wondering if we documented this on /reply-context already
# martymcguire[m] this reminds me - i (ab?)use quill's reply functionality a lot when i mean "quote this with my commentary"
[terminalpixel] joined the channel
# martymcguire[m] mostly because of the UI experience (it's super easy, and i had my site set up to show replies already)
# martymcguire[m] does anyone use a micropub client that supports u-quotation-of? i don't think quill has it.
# martymcguire[m] aaronpk: i agree that the bookmark flow would also be as good, but i want to make a post that is equivalent to a /quote_tweet
# martymcguire[m] ie - both of these are really close from a UI perspective but i don't think of it as a reply or a bookmark, haha
# miklb tantek here's the thing. If I were just a new user, and managed to get all the plugins installed, hooked up with bridgy and I were to set the type to reply, add the link to the url and write my reply, the plugin would return an error saying bridgy can't find the link to the tweet, even though you are looking at it the link in the post editor, see it on Twitter. I'm trying to fix that. Nothing ground breaking, nothing out-of-the-box
# martymcguire[m] hmm. that would work for me, but the h-cite has to come from somewhere.
tantek joined the channel
# martymcguire[m] this is plumbing-y, but i'd be happy with receiving a "u-quotation-of" URL and feeding that into my site's reply context system. i'd display the entire content or a truncated summary.
# gRegorLove Think they mean via micropub
# martymcguire[m] oops, right. i meant my micropub endpoint would receive a quotation-of.
# 
@PS_Promoter follow please #PrabhuStudio I recommended SelfPubShowcase From #Worldwide https://twitter.com/SelfPubShowcase The best books, from the best #Indieauth… (twitter.com/_/status/851886031339126784)
# martymcguire[m] reads /quotation and /quote_tweet for ideas
# 
gregorlove.com edited /quotation (-14) "/* Quote entirety with commentary */ rm quotes" (view diff)
# gRegorLove s/quotes/quotation marks/
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
# martymcguire[m] after some reading i think i want something that is a hybrid.
# martymcguire[m] reading /quotation#reply has me convinced that i want to post an in-reply-to on my own site
# martymcguire[m] but when i POSSE to twitter i want it to appear as a /quote_tweet, not a /reply
# martymcguire[m] i want it to be public on my timeline
# martymcguire[m] i've got an example. here i replied to a tweet that was an announcement: https://martymcgui.re/2017/04/04/141550/
# martymcguire[m] however, when i POSSE this through bridgy, it becomes a reply to the original tweet, which would not show up in my main list of tweets.
# martymcguire[m] absolutely, when i POSSE manually.
# martymcguire[m] when i POSSE'd this tweet through bridgy, it became a reply to the original tweet rather than a quote tweet.
[cleverdevil] joined the channel
# miklb this article https://miklb.com/owning-my-feed-reading/ had a in-reply-to in the link to [cleverdevil] site. On Twitter it showed up with @ as a reply
# martymcguire[m] i posted a note to my site in-reply-to a twitter URL where the content of the note did not start with an @. however, when i used bridgy publish to POSSE this note to twitter, it was posted as a reply to the tweet rather than quoting the tweet.
# tantek martymcguire[m]: this tweet https://twitter.com/schmarty/status/849346041392615427 shows up in your profile tweets
# 
@schmarty Congrats to @thatonegm for publishing Four Sherlock Holmes and a Vampire. One-up your friends, solve the crime, and maybe be a vampire! QT [@ThatOneGM] Inspired by @JustinMcElroy on the latest @TheZoneCast, I wrote this. Enjoy! @griffinmcelroy @travismcelroy @DocCurm https://www.dropbox.com/s/shafmajj4nzqftr/Four%20Sherlock%20Holmes%20and%20a%20Vampire.pdf?dl=0 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8lmLtWXgAAiZQE.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/849346041392615427)
# martymcguire[m] (i deleted the bridgy tweet and manually created the tweet i expected)
# 
@miklb @cleverdevil I’ve been a stalwart _RSS_ (Atom) reader since I started blogging 12 years ago. Back then, in the dark ages, it was the only way to easily… (twitter.com/_/status/851589518763454465)
# martymcguire[m] in other words, i deleted the evidence and made the post that i expected, haha.
# martymcguire[m] heads off to create an example.
# KartikPrabhu yes, bridgy does find the Twitter POSSE copy and replies to that
# KartikPrabhu I think it does (or did?)
[chrisaldrich] joined the channel
# KartikPrabhu yeah, testing now
# martymcguire[m] just created this post: https://martymcgui.re/2017/04/11/162245/
# martymcguire[m] about to posse w/ bridgy
# martymcguire[m] in fact, bridgy informs me that it will create an @-reply
# KartikPrabhu tantek: hmmm nope, bridgy does not duplicate the @-mention in a reply, in fact it removes it! compare https://twitter.com/kartik_prabhu/status/851894558074052613 to https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/re-nice-ducks
# KartikPrabhu weird! that Loqi preview has a @t
# martymcguire[m] and the resulting tweet: https://twitter.com/schmarty/status/851894835086839817
# @schmarty @DnDSVU Had a blast running Everyone is John on @DnDSVU last night! Looking forward to next week when @thatonegm runs another one-shot. (twitter.com/_/status/851894835086839817)
# miklb bridgy has specifc markup needed for a quote tweet https://brid.gy/about#quote-tweet
# martymcguire[m] not sure if bridgy is sending that with the @ name in front, but you can see that my post did not start with @
# martymcguire[m] tantek: please read my post above - the post on my site does not start with "@DnDSVU"
# martymcguire[m] unfortunately the resulting tweet seems to have it
# martymcguire[m] it's a good place for discussion, if nothing else
# martymcguire[m] heads to github
# martymcguire[m] (my theory is that bridgy is specifying that the tweet is a reply in the API request to twitter, causing twitter to start the canoe. in that case the @-name at the start of the text is being added by twitter in display of the tweet.)
# [cleverdevil] Thanks for the help, folks, I ended up creating a tiny custom Known plugin that does what I want.
# [cleverdevil] Now, you can visit https://cleverdevil.io/timeline/ or https://cleverdevil.io/activity/ and see filtered versions of my Known stream.
# [cleverdevil] Not sure I'm totally happy with the categorization, yet, but its getting there!
# [chrisaldrich] cleverdevil and my, look at that larger typography! What was the secret ultimately to rewrite the pages?
# [cleverdevil] Its a Known plugin.
# [cleverdevil] That basically inherits from the Homepage object in core and forces it to show specific content types.
# martymcguire[m] ok, unfolding the mystery. did a dive into bridgy publish handling, which hands off to granary to make the actual post to twitter.
# martymcguire[m] granary isn't adding in the @-names at the front. it's using a twitter API option to have twitter do it.
# martymcguire[m] comment about the API option: https://github.com/snarfed/granary/blob/master/granary/twitter.py#L735
# martymcguire[m] code where the auto_populate_reply_metadata option is invoked if the post being published has an in-reply-to: https://github.com/snarfed/granary/blob/master/granary/twitter.py#L735
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "u-featured" yet. Would you like to create it?
# martymcguire[m] issue filed: https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/742
# [cleverdevil] chrisaldrich in case you're curious https://github.com/cleverdevil/CleverCustomize
# martymcguire[m] the more i think about it, the more i think this isn't a bug so much as a use case falling through the cracks of twitter's @-name handling in replies.
snarfed joined the channel
# snarfed hi all. details on the bridgy duplicating @-mentions complaint: https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/742#issuecomment-293411480
# martymcguire[m] snarfed++ for the reply! that is what i having trouble articulating. the "@-name" isn't duplicated "in" the tweet as twitter displays it in the twitter UI.
# martymcguire[m] so i'm back to wanting a way to differentiate "a reply on my site that should be a reply on twitter" vs "a reply on my site that should be a quote on twitter"
# martymcguire[m] snarfed: that's what i will do for now. :}
[eddie] joined the channel
# KartikPrabhu [eddie]: you can h-cite just a link too
# KartikPrabhu to cite it :P
# KartikPrabhu of course it isn't a pretty markup
# KartikPrabhu but I don't see why h-cite needs to have any content other than a link
# martymcguire[m] from the discussion on /quotation, i definitely see these as /reply posts. it's like twitter has a distinction that my site doesn't because my site doesn't have canoes. :}
# [cleverdevil] What is a canoe?
# Loqi canoe is a long chain of replies on twitter, with many people @'d into it https://indieweb.org/canoe
# [cleverdevil] sighs
# martymcguire[m] [eddie]: it's also a question of audience. twitter will put a /quote_tweet on my public timeline under "Tweets", but an @-reply is under "Tweets and Replies" (and may not be visible to my followers? is that still true?)
# martymcguire[m] whereas my site doesn't make a distinction like that.
# martymcguire[m] bridgy publish does support making quote tweets if you replace in-reply-to with quotation-of, but i am not sure it is worth it to build that difference into my site
# martymcguire[m] [eddie]: it does seem that twitter's new reply-handling implementation breaks expectations of the old behavior that position of @-mentions matters.
# [cleverdevil] I'd actually like a "repost" with content in Quill, sort of like quoted RTs on Twitter.
# [cleverdevil] Is that even a thing?
# KartikPrabhu your site can pull the content from the original being reposted no?
# KartikPrabhu or so you mean repost with your own commentary?
# [cleverdevil] The latter.
# KartikPrabhu aah ok
# [cleverdevil] Both, though, I suppose?
# [cleverdevil] It'd be nice if it were formatted very similarly to how Twitter does.
# 
[eddie] If no to either question then your post should be a reply instead of a quotation. -> Current documented thinking on https://indieweb.org/quotation#reply
# [cleverdevil] Point taken.
# [cleverdevil] Now I've been dragged into it!
# [cleverdevil] Wake me up when you all sort it out ?
# martymcguire[m] s/limited audience/limited-audience/
# martymcguire[m] like it's more a matter of which streams reply post appears in and who gets notified.
# martymcguire[m] if i were to implement twitter-style-replies, i'd make the post to my site and send webmentions for it, but it wouldn't appear in my stream(s).
# martymcguire[m] and if i wanted to implement twitter-style-quotes on my site, i'd make the post to my site and include it in my streams. but instead of sending a webmention to the post i'm replying to, i'd send a person-tag??
# martymcguire[m] (so the original poster gets notified, but it doesn't show up in the mentions for that particular post)
KevinMarks joined the channel
# [cleverdevil] What you just did on Twitter is exactly what I want, eddie.
# martymcguire[m] [eddie]: here's a tweet that quotes one of my tweets: https://twitter.com/ThatOneGM/status/851895381906554880
# 
@ThatOneGM Everyone Is John is super fun, and I loved last night's episode. Next week, I'm running Wushu! Expect over-the-top action and wackiness. QT [@schmarty] @DnDSVU Had a blast running Everyone is John on @DnDSVU last night! Looking forward to next week when @thatonegm runs another one-shot. (twitter.com/_/status/851895381906554880)
# martymcguire[m] clicking through to the tweet in question, that quote is not in the replies: https://twitter.com/schmarty/status/851894835086839817
# @schmarty @DnDSVU Had a blast running Everyone is John on @DnDSVU last night! Looking forward to next week when @thatonegm runs another one-shot. (twitter.com/_/status/851894835086839817)
# [cleverdevil] Hah.
# martymcguire[m] well i am not sure what we have learned but i very much enjoyed the discussion.
# martymcguire[m] if i want to make a simple workflow for something like quill, maybe i'd make two twitter syndication targets: one that treats replies as replies (ie - just passes through normal in-reply-to mf2 markup) and one that treats replies as quotes (ie - uses quotation-of mf2 markup for bridgy)
# martymcguire[m] either way i'd want most mf2 consumers to see it as in-reply-to.
# martymcguire[m] well, with that i need to get ready for dinner. later on, everybody. and thanks!
# [cleverdevil] This is my weekly reminder to ask you how its coming, eddie ?
# [eddie] cleverdevil++ Ran into DNS issues over the end of last week/weekend when I switched to DreamCompute ? (DNS issues weren’t DreamHost’s issue, other servers issue). So I couldn’t do micropub all weekend. But the DNS issues seem resolved, so I’m looking forward to getting some testing done on it this week ?
# [cleverdevil] No worries. Sounds good!
KevinMarks_ joined the channel
# [cleverdevil] Looking forward to it. I think its a real key to making the entire user experience better. Integrated sharing in both iOS and and macOS will be fantastic.
# [cleverdevil] Might also be interesting to contact the Dropshare people and see if they might be interested in integrating Micropub.
# [cleverdevil] What is Dropshare?
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Dropshare" yet. Would you like to create it?
# [cleverdevil] Dropshare is an app for [[macOS]] and [[iOS]] for sharing files to popular cloud services and to your own server. https://getdropsha.re
# loqi.me created /Dropshare (+163) "prompted by [cleverdevil] and dfn added by [cleverdevil]" (view diff)
# 
eddiehinkle.com edited /reply (+1272) "Added brainstorm section with a summary of @-reply vs. quote tweet brainstorm" (view diff)
# [cleverdevil] Same reason I made my Nextcloud News plugin.
# [cleverdevil] Reduce friction for doing the "right thing" vs. the easy thing.
# [cleverdevil] Eventually, I'd like to move back to a native feed reader like Reeder.app, which I love, but it (a) doesn't sync with Nextcloud News's API yet, and (b) Doesn't support Micropub sharing yet.
[kevinmarks] joined the channel
# 
[kevinmarks] Miklb: did you see http://www.kevinmarks.com/mentionquote.html
[chrisaldrich] joined the channel
# [chrisaldrich] tantek: It doesn't look quite like a time zone issue. Maybe every time they update their web server for some reason? https://indiechat.search.cweiske.de/?q=A+short+note+about+web+standards+from+your+friends+at+Known&page=1
# [kevinmarks] With the new canoe replies, they don't show in your timeline by default even if you don't start with @
# [kevinmarks] You have to retweet your own post to put it in your public timeline
# gRegorLove I think if you start off a tweet with an @-mention of someone, not @-reply, that's visible to all your followers, regardless if they follow that user. All subsequent replies are *not* shown your followers, unless they also follow the initial @-mention user.
# gRegorLove So it's sorta like you can see the start of a conversation, but not the rest unless you click through / follow the people in the convo
# KevinMarks_ It is so much better than their app on android
KevinMarks and KevinMarks_ joined the channel