#dev 2017-06-06

2017-06-06 UTC
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tantek what is Getting Started
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Loqi Get started on the indieweb by connecting with the indiewebcamp community, getting a personal domain, a place for your content, and setting up your home page & other indieweb essentials https://indieweb.org/Getting_Started
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tantek Getting Started << [https://ietf.org/newcomers.html IETF Getting Started] - as another example, and perhaps source of inspiration for how to keep incrementally improving this page
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loqi.me edited /Getting_Started (+163) "tantek added "[https://ietf.org/newcomers.html IETF Getting Started] - as another example, and perhaps source of inspiration for how to keep incrementally improving this page" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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Loqi ok, I added "[https://ietf.org/newcomers.html IETF Getting Started] - as another example, and perhaps source of inspiration for how to keep incrementally improving this page" to the "See Also" section of /Getting_Started
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david.shanske.com edited /2017 (+284) "/* Travel and Lodging */" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /NIH (+296) "Why (does it happen), cite and quote" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2017/Leaders (+1306) "/* Events Website */ actually, Events Organizing in general, problems go beyond the / a website, and short of that, can we make incremental improvements? some problems" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2017/Leaders (+620) "Site Refresh session proposed" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2017/Leaders (+1555) "/* Site Refresh */ also people, projects, getting started" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2017/Leaders (+1288) "/* Sessions */ interested? be explicit, also, More Logos?" (view diff)
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tantek !tell aaronpk,ben_thatmustbeme,benwerd,gRegorLove,GWG,Salt,schmarty,sknebel,Zegnat added a bunch more proposed Leaders Summit sessions for your consideration - please take a look and add interested (or not) notes, or other suggestions! https://indieweb.org/2017/Leaders#Sessions
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek.com edited /2017/Leaders (+208) "/* Site Refresh */ About?" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /Loqi (+58) "aaronpk added "bug: don't ignore lone stopwords, e.g. "what is about?"" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /2017/Leaders (+466) "/* Events Organizing */ +me, +comment" (view diff)
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miklb https://www.pipes.digital
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miklb ^ "RE-LIVE YAHOO PIPES"
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gregorlove.com created /anti-pattern (+26) "r" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /2017/Leaders (+130) "/* More Logos */" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /2017/Leaders (+12) "/* Discussion Channels */ +me" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /2017/Leaders (+332) "/* Sessions */" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /2017/Leaders (+32) "/* Discussion Channels */" (view diff)
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gRegorLove Discussion Channels seems like it will be an easy session. "Add -wordpress? Aye? Done." :)
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Loqi gRegorLove: tantek left you a message 38 minutes ago: added a bunch more proposed Leaders Summit sessions for your consideration - please take a look and add interested (or not) notes, or other suggestions! https://indieweb.org/2017/Leaders#Sessions
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aaronpk pretty much
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Loqi aaronpk: gRegorLove left you a message 6 hours, 21 minutes ago: Apparently Loqi's "when is" is case-sensitive. Only returns the link with "When is..."
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Loqi aaronpk: sknebel left you a message 6 hours, 21 minutes ago: https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/2017-06-05#t1496692265564000
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Loqi aaronpk: tantek left you a message 38 minutes ago: added a bunch more proposed Leaders Summit sessions for your consideration - please take a look and add interested (or not) notes, or other suggestions! https://indieweb.org/2017/Leaders#Sessions
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aaronpk whoa
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tantek heh
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aaronpk looks like those are all accounted for
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tantek gRegorLove: indeed, I think that'll take < 5min
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tantek maybe we can brainstorm about what other channels we might want / need, and what would motivate us to create them
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aaronpk a good discussion might be how to determine when a new channel is needed and how we can do that in the middle of the year before the next IWS
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aaronpk i feel like we've all been kind of waiting til IWS to make a call on this, even though it would have been useful to have a wp channel a couple months ago
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tantek aaronpk, I would agree with that example, except for the fact *none* (AFAIK) of the folks who chat WordPress regularly here or on #indieweb has said anything about it - which concerns me
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GWG Are we dividing ourselves too thin?
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Loqi GWG: tantek left you a message 42 minutes ago: added a bunch more proposed Leaders Summit sessions for your consideration - please take a look and add interested (or not) notes, or other suggestions! https://indieweb.org/2017/Leaders#Sessions
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tantek e.g. creating a channel for a specific subject/demographic where the people who participate in that subject don't explicitly express a desire for it seems odd
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aaronpk interesting point
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tantek or rather, it feels like segregation rather than a positive thing. maybe I'm overreacting but it makes me uncomfortable
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aaronpk however it may not have occurred to them that a new channel was an option
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tantek lol, now we are othering? "them" ;)
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aaronpk i'm just saying maybe people don't feel empowered to create a new channel, and if they new it was an option then they may have expressed a desire for it
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tantek yes that's reasonable
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aaronpk this is based on my experience in other Slack teams, where channel creation is encouraged
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GWG I thought dev might be enough.
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aaronpk some of this doesn't translate to IRC as well as it does to Slack, which also may be part of what's going on
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aaronpk to take things to the extreme, a channel for each spec wouldn't be an unusual use of Slack. e.g. channels for webmention, micropub, indieauth, websub, etc
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aaronpk anyway, i'm not necessarily advocating that, just saying i wouldn't be surprised to drop in to a slack and see channels like that
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GWG But IRC isn't Slack.
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GWG I already can't figure out which room to use
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tantek aaronpk OTOH that kind of slackplosion of slacks and channels is what caused me to give up and declare slackruptcy and go cold turkey
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eli_oat ✊ slackruptcy
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eli_oat actually, indieweb is the only thing taht has brought me back to slack so I can chat here from my phone
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tantek I need to see someone's slack setup who is actually still productive, maybe aaronpk
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tantek and figure out how to setup my slack notifications etc. accordingly as well
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david.shanske.com edited /2017/Leaders (+122) "/* More Logos */" (view diff)
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aaronpk The thing I like about the super separation like that is it makes it really easy to "catch up" on logs, since you can decide to skim certain topics and fully read others
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GWG Agreed.
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david.shanske.com edited /2017/Leaders (+10) "/* Events Organizing */" (view diff)
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tantek GWG is right though, with every channel there is the increasing cognitive load and paradox of choice of which channel to choose for what
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tantek as soon as your channel list is so long you have to scroll, there's a problem
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GWG I'm getting there now.
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GWG Even indieweb-chat and indiechat confuses me.
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tantek lol
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GWG I don't know where to say anything sometimes.
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tantek that's easy, do you want to include slack people (*-chat) or not (*chat)
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tantek ;)
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miklb I almost think there needs to be a wiki/activity channel so -dev is just discussion. Can be difficult to follow a conversation if a bunch of wiki edits are going on at same time
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tantek GWG, that's what #indieweb-meta is for
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tantek when you don't know where to say what
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GWG tantek: To talk about which channel to talk about stuff in?
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tantek yes
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GWG I think we need to invent a new IRC client to deal with this
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tantek OTOH I can see aaronpk's point as well about no limits / restrictions on new channels. I mean, like hashtags, no one has to agree on them, you just start using them
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david.shanske.com edited /2017/Leaders (+128) "/* Discussion Channels */" (view diff)
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miklb speaking of Slack, just tried to login but it's not recognizing my email address/pw but my username is taken. Any suggestions?
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tantek you sure you're logging into the right Slack?
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miklb indiewebcamp from the link on /discuss
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miklb I haven't used IWC slack in a long time, might have changed since I last used it. But I can't register miklb because it's saying it's not available. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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miklb maybe a different email address that I need to use than the one I used to request access?
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martymcgui.re edited /2017/Leaders (+18) "/* 2016 Next Time */" (view diff)
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martymcgui.re edited /2017/Leaders (+57) "/* Sessions */ i am apparently interested in everything" (view diff)
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martymcgui.re edited /Homebrew_Website_Club (+83) "/* Baltimore */" (view diff)
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www.svenknebel.de edited /2017/Leaders (+358) "/* Discussion Channels */ me: ±0" (view diff)
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aaronpk Unlimited channels has its own problem but there is definitely a happy medium
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aaronpk miklb: you might have registered early enough that you're using an @indiewebcamp.com forwarding address, I can take a look tomorrow
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miklb aaronpk might be, no rush. thanks
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aaronpk Those should still be active so you could try your domain @indiewebcamp.com as the email
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miklb yep, that worked. I wouldn't have thought to try domain (with .com) @indiewebcamp.com
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[miklb] \0/
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aaronpk Hooray
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david.shanske.com edited /2017/Leaders (+10) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
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[eddie] Regarding super separation, as a Slack guy, that is definitely my default. As aaronpk said, when you miss a lot it's easier to choose what you want to skip and what you want to make sure and read up on
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[eddie] Also, I think some of the existing channels can be confusing because they ARE such broad topics or as nuanced as "slack or no slack bridge". Where as with Micropub or Webmention, it's pretty clear when to post in there. It's in the name
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sknebel [eddie]: interesting points, esp. the specific topic one
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Loqi sknebel: tantek left you a message 3 hours, 47 minutes ago: added a bunch more proposed Leaders Summit sessions for your consideration - please take a look and add interested (or not) notes, or other suggestions! https://indieweb.org/2017/Leaders#Sessions
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aaronpk The -chat vs chat thing is an artifact, not intentional
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www.svenknebel.de edited /2017/Leaders (+376) "/* Discussion Channels */ chat vs -chat" (view diff)
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tantek sknebel: we could redirect #indiechat to #indieweb-chat
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sknebel that's what I meant with "merge"
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www.svenknebel.de edited /2017/Leaders (+59) "/* Discussion Channels */ clarify" (view diff)
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www.svenknebel.de edited /2017 (-10) "remove stub template" (view diff)
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vanderven.se martijn edited /2017/Leaders (+805) "/* Sessions */ Add interest and possible discussion point" (view diff)
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[kevinmarks] What is text first?
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Loqi Text-first design refers to the practice of designing information so that it is usable/actionable in its most basic plaintext form https://indieweb.org/text-first
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[kevinmarks] Text first << https://uxplanet.org/ux-writing-how-to-do-it-like-google-with-this-powerful-checklist-e263cc37f5f1
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Loqi ok, I added "https://uxplanet.org/ux-writing-how-to-do-it-like-google-with-this-powerful-checklist-e263cc37f5f1" to the "See Also" section of /text-first_design
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loqi.me edited /text-first_design (+101) "[kevinmarks] added "https://uxplanet.org/ux-writing-how-to-do-it-like-google-with-this-powerful-checklist-e263cc37f5f1" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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[kevinmarks] The example being a password entry box is telling
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www.svenknebel.de edited /2017 (+0) "/* IndieWeb Summit */ fix markup" (view diff)
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sknebel turns out microformats on the wiki are error prone
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sknebel kylewm++ for mf2util
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Loqi kylewm has 1 karma in this channel (356 overall)
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Zegnat sknebel, I am not surprised. I wonder if some clever person can’t whip up a good mediawiki template for those adresses
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Loqi Zegnat: tantek left you a message 7 hours, 17 minutes ago: added a bunch more proposed Leaders Summit sessions for your consideration - please take a look and add interested (or not) notes, or other suggestions! https://indieweb.org/2017/Leaders#Sessions
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sknebel addresses might be a viable case for this, yes. otherwise I'd generally ask the question of "what does actually consume this markup?" before thinking about improving something that isn't used
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sknebel (really, the u-url was wrong, but it's not like I know of anything that would have been broken by it – I just noticed it in debug output right now and wanted to make sure it's not Yet Another Parser Bug)
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petermolnar.net edited /2017/Leaders (+87) "/* When */" (view diff)
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petermolnar.net edited /2017/Leaders (+32) "/* When */" (view diff)
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pfefferle good morning
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petermolnar question: is anyone running regular external vulnerability checks against their internet facing stuff?
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petermolnar if yes, how?
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mblaney petermolnar I've used OWASP ZAP in the past, should probably use it more often.
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mblaney sqlmap is pretty good too, if you need to worry about databases.
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petermolnar I tend to use mysql unix socket based
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petermolnar OWASP seems to be web application oriented, and for that, it looks great, but I was looking for something more generic that, for example, checks mail server, ssh, etc
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mblaney oh ok. I rely on automatic updates and locked down ssh config for that... which is probably just a variation on hope and pray.
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petermolnar one of my colleagues just told me an IRC server of one of his friends just got ransomwared - a linux host. I've known they exists, but haven't seen them in action so far; hence the question
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petermolnar (I've also enabled daily/weekly ZFS snapshost, just in casE)
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mblaney yeah backups are the only true comfort. I've got a daily backup automated with cron for important stuff, which also rsync's to another server. I offline copies pretty regularly too.
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petermolnar daily rsync won't always save you, unless you keep an eye on how many things are changing
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petermolnar the reason why zfs (btrfs, lvm, etc) snapshots are good for this is that if something starts encrypting everything you disk will fill up which you'll certainly notice
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petermolnar which, in this case, is _good_
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petermolnar so you can restore the snapshot
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petermolnar whereas if you rsync and don't actively monitor what changed, you'll end up rsyncing the encrypted files...
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mblaney it doesn't have to be malicious either.... disks randomly fail too :-/
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mblaney yes rsync is just a convenience, offline copies on an external hard drive are the last resort.
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petermolnar I also highly suggest to do sanity checks before rsync... I did manage to wipe my backup by forgetting to mount a partition on the source that way
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sknebel you'd think that giving a geocoder "company, street, zip, city, country" would give you results at least as good as just "city, country"
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sknebel sighs
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[kevinmarks] Company seems to confuse them, especially Google's
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sknebel in this case it seems to be a #-sign in front of the house number. I wonder if something in their API handles the URL weirdly and thinks its a fragment...
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www.svenknebel.de edited /location (+241) "/* How to determine the location of a microformat */ add step to deal with nested adr" (view diff)
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sknebel ^^^ I'd appreciate it if someone could review that this makes sense
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www.svenknebel.de edited /location (+87) "/* implementations*/ new section" (view diff)
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calumryan.com edited /2017/Leaders (+16) "/* Remote Participation */" (view diff)
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gRegorLove sknebel: I think "value" in that algorithm means the actual key "value" in the parsed results, so should probably read "If that _location_ property is a nested _mf_ of type h-adr, use the value of that nested h-adr"
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gRegorLove Wait, I think I misread
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gRegorLove Yeah, scratch that
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gRegorLove Looks good as is
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[kevinmarks] Interesting https://css-tricks.com/reactive-uis-vanillajs-part-1-pure-functional-style/
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Loqi [Brandon Smith] Reactive UI’s with VanillaJS – Part 1: Pure Functional Style
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KartikPrabhu <sigh> HTML in JS
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martymcgui.re edited /events/2017-06-28-homebrew-website-club (+173) "/* Baltimore MD */" (view diff)
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www.boffosocko.com edited /Indieweb_for_Education (+256) "Related Conferences; Domains17" (view diff)
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@ChrisAldrich @BenjaminHarwood The best part is it supports cutting edge tech like webmentions & micropub out of the box as well… http://stream.boffosocko.com/2017/benjaminharwood-the-best-part-is-it-supports-cutting-edge-tech (twitter.com/_/status/872160659542335492)
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tantek.com edited /2017 (+761) "/* Participating */ add activities section as an excuse for donuts and fitness" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2017 (+25) "/* Exercise */ free" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu Loqi: messages?
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www.boffosocko.com edited /site-deaths (+155) "/* OpenStudy */" (view diff)
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www.boffosocko.com edited /export (+57) "/* Silos */ delicious" (view diff)
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tantek hey indieweb devs, want to speak about what you've been building with IndieWeb APIs? API World in September has a CFP that has a deadline Friday! http://apiworld.co/conference/apply-to-speak/
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www.boffosocko.com edited /site-deaths (+676) "Delicious (adding on the side of caution, but could be re-categorized once the acquisition details settle out)" (view diff)
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@jackjamieson Testing webmentions again - http://jackjamieson.net/testing-webmentions-again/ (twitter.com/_/status/872220099037478912)
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loqi.me created /WordPress_user (+64) "prompted by [miklb] and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /rsvp (+116) "subheads to divide the work" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /rsvp (+3) "/* How to RSVP with Known */ numbered list instead of two steps on one line where you can easily miss the second step" (view diff)
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cleverdevil.io edited /rsvp (+487) "/* How to RSVP with Known */" (view diff)
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@WendyandCharles ReadersGazette: BLOG Indie Author Answers by Jim Heskett http://www.thejugglingauthor.com/indieauth/ Get help writing your book #bookbloggers 39 (twitter.com/_/status/872233166429458432)
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tantek what is Apple Pay
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Apple Pay" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek payment << [[Apple Pay]]
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loqi.me edited /payment (+16) "tantek added "[[Apple Pay]]" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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Loqi ok, I added "[[Apple Pay]]" to the "See Also" section of /payment
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tantek gives Loqi a nudge
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Loqi eats the nudge
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tantek what is Apple Pay
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Apple Pay" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek payment << [[Apple Pay]]
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loqi.me edited /payment (+16) "tantek added "[[Apple Pay]]" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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Loqi ok, I added "[[Apple Pay]]" to the "See Also" section of /payment
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2017-hanselman-dotnetfringe.png]]""
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aaronparecki.com edited /payment (+163) "/* Other independent examples */" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk: why does @shanselman include "applepay"? there is no obvious way to construct an Apple Pay link to *pay you*