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# 00:36 tantek hey I saw a micro.blog email announcement that the Micro.blog iOS app is now in the App Store
# 00:37 tantek is that the first Micropub client in the Apple App Store?
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# 00:38 tantek !tell aaronpk is the Micro.blog iOS now in the Apple App Store the first officially published iOS app that is a Micropub client? That's probably worth blogging - since now anyone with an iPhone/iPod/iPad can download and use it (presumably with any Micropub server?)
# 00:38 Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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# 01:19 Loqi aaronpk: tantek left you a message 41 minutes ago: is the Micro.blog iOS now in the Apple App Store the first officially published iOS app that is a Micropub client? That's probably worth blogging - since now anyone with an iPhone/iPod/iPad can download and use it (presumably with any Micropub server?)
# 01:22 aaronpk almost certainly is the first Micropub client in the iOS App Store, but i'm not sure whether it's possible to use it without having a micro.blog account
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# 04:15 [eddie] It's not possible to use without a micro.blog account
# 04:16 [eddie] !tell tantek oops I forgot the "tell". Micro.blog app does require micro.blog access code/account
# 04:16 Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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# 06:26 gRegorLove Woo, I got a Flask app up and running. Might play with this for a side project site.
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# 13:29 jjuran Zegnat: Looks like JS is necessary for User-Agent sniffing and to display a captcha
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# 14:56 Zegnat schmarty, that is really good news! libsodium seems nice as far as I have read about it :D
# 15:03 Zegnat I was looking at libsodium to do public key signing for selfauth actually. Just deemed it more work than I had time to put in to it
# 15:07 sknebel Zegnat: libsodium is quite easy to use actually, that's the nice thing about it
# 15:07 sknebel once PHP 7.2(?) is somewhat available I'd revisit that
# 15:08 Zegnat Yes, I just wasn’t sure I was going to get private key signing for the tokens properly working without making mistakes in the limited time I had to get selfauth running
# 15:10 sknebel sure, it's certainly an advanced feature, and right now not available to most users.
# 15:11 sknebel hm, I should make a python version of the token signing in selfauth, then I could replace Kajas custom auth endpoint with selfauth
# 15:11 Zegnat There is sodium_compat, but that means extra dependencies that we didn’t want for selfauth either
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# 15:12 sknebel yeah, unless we do some bundling etc (where I don't know if PHP world has tooling for it) more dependencies aren't so good
# 15:12 Zegnat You could bundle the entire selfauth + dependencies as a phar file
# 15:13 sknebel I thought phar support that common on random hosts?
# 15:13 Zegnat If your server is correctly configured it can offer .phar files for public access and execute its contents (think of .phar as a folder with an index.php in that case)
# 15:13 Zegnat I think there might be a difference between actual support and proper server configurations
# 15:13 sknebel of course we could have a simple and an advanced version
# 15:13 Zegnat I seem to recall cweiske having filed an issue on the matter
# 15:15 Zegnat cweiske’s article is a great read on the subject, sknebel
# 15:15 Loqi cweiske has 14 karma in this channel (107 overall)
# 15:16 sknebel Zegnat: yeah, I saw that, but again, you guys have been the ones pushing for "should run everywhere"
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# 15:16 Zegnat Yes. And I think that is a good stance to think on a simple implementation like this.
# 15:16 Zegnat I would not be opposed to a proper “advanced” version, but don’t have the time to invest right now
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# 16:46 Loqi tantek: [eddie] left you a message 12 hours, 30 minutes ago: oops I forgot the "tell". Micro.blog app does require micro.blog access code/account
# 16:47 tantek !tell eddie but if you have micro.blog access/account, can you then use the Micro.blog app with any Micropub server? (like your own site?)
# 16:47 Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
# 16:47 tantek aaronpk that's totally worth a blog post, even if they require micro.blog for the identity/auth bit
# 16:48 tantek first Micropub app in the Apple App Store right?
# 16:48 tantek which reminds me, whatever happened to Checkie?
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# 17:15 tantek searches web for checkie, finds his own 2012 blogpost
# 17:15 Loqi [aaronpk] Checkie: A lightweight foursquare client for the iOS
# 17:17 tantek I just searched gh for it and your repo is the only one left!
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# 17:19 GWG I'm trying to figure out arguments for displaying location.
# 17:19 GWG Anyone have any thoughts? I pass in longitude, latitude, and display name...or some combination therefore, and I'm trying to decide what options I would set for display.
# 17:20 tantek GWG sounds like you may be solving the problem backwards? from the data up to display instead of from the UI/use-case down to the data?
# 17:21 aaronpk interesting, what's your use case for wanting to post from checkie to your site without sending it to foursquare?
# 17:21 GWG I'm thinking how I might want to enhance it.
# 17:22 GWG I was trying to write it to match up with raamdev's design and realized I don't have any flexibility.
# 17:23 GWG I'm trying to make it so the design decision can be passed better down to the end user. Which in some cases is also me.
# 17:26 Loqi [aaronpk] Checkie: A lightweight foursquare client for the iOS
# 17:26 tantek hey can you turn on "issues"? I want to file the "Add micropub support" feature request :)
# 17:26 aaronpk i think the recent discussion would lean me towards not moving it to the indieweb org yet
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# 17:31 tantek aaronpk, yeah that makes sense to me, and what I ended up leaning towards
# 17:32 tantek makes sense to keep the indieweb org repos more "real" and semi-immediately-usable by people that happen to stumble upon it
# 17:33 tantek maybe just ask if he'd consider adding Micropub support then!
# 17:34 aaronpk it would be a good starting point for a native Teacup app too actually
# 17:36 aaronpk tho the web version has been doing fine for me mostly
# 17:37 aaronpk only real problems are switching apps away and back again, usually causes the page to refresh and i lose my in-progress post
# 17:38 tantek that seems like a PWA opportunity though I suppose that requires Mobile Safari to support more web standards
# 17:39 aaronpk i could at least save some state in cookies (i think localforage was a good wrapper?) but that still wouldn't give me the ability to have the photo continue uploading when the app is put in the background
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# 18:28 GWG tantek: I'm looking forward to going to the past.
# 18:28 dgold and me here not even finished my friday beer
# 18:29 Loqi dgold has 1 karma in this channel (16 overall)
# 18:29 GWG What are you going to post first?
# 18:30 dgold was wondering if rhiaro is active on irc - wanted to thank her
# 18:30 dgold I have the mpub endpoint working, saving flat files for my static blog thinger
# 18:31 dgold but, and herein lies the rub - the engine (Hugo) needs to be actually 'called' to do its markdown->html thing
# 18:36 dgold sknebel: ascraeus.org is on a vps, sknebel
# 18:36 dgold so, I have whatever plumbing i can be persuaded to understand
# 18:37 sknebel and the mpub endpoint is what/where? (sorry if I missed some context)
# 18:38 dgold I've written a php-script that handles micropub
# 18:41 dgold it saves the micropub data as a flat-file markdown, with YAML headers - the site uses Hugo - gohugo.io - as the engine
# 18:41 dgold the problem is that hugo needs to be called once a new markdown file has been created
# 18:41 dgold otherwise, I'm returning a 201-location to a presently non-existent URI
# 18:42 aaronpk you can return 202 with a location header to a non-existent URI to indicate that it doesn't exist yet
# 18:43 aaronpk i'm not sure how many clients will do something different when they encounter a 202, but that's the intended response for that situation
# 18:43 aaronpk in fact... i should file a ticket on Quill for that. it should not redirect the browser to the post on a 202.
# 18:44 Loqi [aaronpk] #80 Show success message and don't redirect on a 202 response from the Micropub endpoint
# 18:47 sknebel dgold: if hugo is quick enough you could run it directly from the PHP script and return a 201 afterwards. if it takes longer you should give the job to some kind of background queue
# 18:48 Zegnat aaronpk, why does the 202 also *require* a URL?
# 18:49 Zegnat I was wondering about that not long ago. I think it came up in conversation somewhere.
# 18:49 aaronpk so that clients have a URL to reference for the post
# 18:50 aaronpk otherwise the client wouldn't have a URL to use to update the post for example
# 18:54 Zegnat Yeah, but that does mean asynchronous servers also must know the URL before processing the post. What if your URL is dependent on post type, like tantek’s? Still seems to force unnecessary synchronous tasks on the endpoint server I feel
# 18:54 dgold sknebel: im unsure how I can call hugo from a php script
# 18:54 aaronpk Zegnat: could always return an alternate URL that will eventually redirect to the real URL
# 18:55 aaronpk kind of like how in wordpress every post has a URL like ?id=1234 even if you have custom URL slugs on
# 18:55 dgold has his nanopub script dealing with different urls dependent on post-type
# 18:55 sknebel dgold: I think PHP has "exec" to run external programs? but I'm sure someone with actual PHP experience here or Stack Overflow know better than me ;)
# 18:55 Zegnat Ah, so a Micropub client that gets a URL back should not treat that URL as canonical for the post?
# 18:56 aaronpk Zegnat: i'm not sure what the use case of treating or not treating as canonical is
# 18:56 aaronpk two things micropub clients do with URLs returned: show/redirect the user agent to the post, and store it internally to use for updates
# 18:59 Zegnat So show and redirect wouldn’t work for 202 as the client has no way of knowing when the URL gets populated. The second is the only usecase left than, though the endpoint will have to manage the client possibly having a URL in memory that is no longer a post’s canonical URL. While a secondary micropub client might try to send an update for a posts c
# 18:59 Zegnat anonical URL (as discovered on the h-feed or something?).
# 19:00 aaronpk think of the alternate URL the same way it's dealt with for webmentions
# 19:00 aaronpk if you receive a webmention with a target that is an alternate URL of your post (a short link on a different domain for example), you're still supposed to resolve that to the canonical URL when you're processing it
# 19:01 Zegnat and yes, dgold, sknebel, PHP’s exec() can execute locally installed tools on the command line, that would include hugo.
# 19:02 Zegnat That would work, aaronpk. Just means storing an extra identifier with each post, one generated by the Micropub endpoint when it first receives a post.
# 19:03 aaronpk yeah that'd be a consideration you'd have to do if you want to create the post asynchronously
# 19:04 aaronpk my endpoint creates enough of the post synchronously to get a URL and show most of the contents. I then have background scripts that go and "fill in" pieces of the post, like adding my gps location, fetching reply context or repost content, syndicating, etc
# 19:04 sknebel I wouldn't expect much to break if you didn't return a valid URL anyways
# 19:05 Zegnat I don’t really think servers wouldn’t be able to handle it. I just thought it weird that when asynchronous is specifically allowed by the spec, the Location was a requirement.
# 19:05 Zegnat sknebel, neither do I, or a URL that will only work for a week or something, it is mostly the requirement of Location that stood out to me :)
# 19:06 sknebel that's an argument in support of "possibly shouldn't be required"
# 19:09 Loqi [Zegnat] That section sounds weird, cweiske… does it say a URL is send back for 202 too?!
# 19:16 dgold fwiw, looking at the w3c on http headers, 202 doesn't require a uri
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# 19:28 [barryf] My site returns a 202 because post creation is async so I made Micropublish retry with a little countdown/spinner if it gets a 404 after creating a post.
# 19:38 dgold has just realised he needs to reimplement everything to use json-encoded micropubs as well.
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# 19:51 sknebel dgold: making one for JSON and then putting code in front to convert form-encoded to the same structure seems to work quite well
# 19:51 sknebel (that's how I do it, and I think the wordpress one is structured the same way)
# 19:53 dgold sknebel: how do you do the webmention->irc notifications?
# 19:54 sknebel dgold: I run a private IRC server and aaronpks TikTokBot
# 19:54 sknebel and my webmention verifier triggers a webhook on that
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# 20:09 dgold thanks sknebel I'd be delighted to take any/all advice
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# 20:48 Zegnat How/why the current Micropub implementations return 202 + Location:
# 20:48 Zegnat Kaku seems to use its own event system, queues a create event and then returns a 202 + Location. The “location” value is stored within the post metadata, it seems.
# 20:48 Zegnat Aruna also seems to use a job queue, but its URLs are simply a hardcoded https://j4y.co/p/ + $uid, so that is what always gets returned for the Location header.
# 20:48 Zegnat Transformative seems to use octokit, which I think is a GitHub client, to store a post in a repo. I am guessing this is a 202 because the actual storing happens asynchronously (I did not dive into octokit). The location is taken from an absolute_url field on the post object, and I am not sure how it is getting filled.
# 20:49 Zegnat Kaku’s location value is simply generated from timestamp and the “slug” field on the micropub request
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# 21:50 sknebel aaronpk: outside of updating cinch, did you check if any of the other updates you did to the Gems used by TikTokBot are important?
# 21:51 aaronpk the rest of the updates were because of updating cinch
# 21:51 sknebel I think you just updated everything to newest available?
# 21:52 sknebel at least if I just update cinch I get a working TTB on Ruby 2.1.5, with the gemfile.lock from the repo I don't
# 21:52 sknebel I guess I'll just "risk it" then and ignore your lockfile
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# 22:51 tantek I'm kinda curious how often someone's site goes down because of SSL cert expired
# 22:53 tantek also bringing a general convo from #indieweb-wordpress here
# 22:53 tantek [chrisaldrich] noted that he wants facepiles to aggregate all the likes/reposts etc. responses out of the flow of the comments (e.g. on his FB mom-likes post)
# 22:54 tantek and I noted that I *started* with facepiles (no stream of responses yet)
# 22:55 tantek I'm getting so much noise @-replies on Twitter that I'm not sure how to block those when using services to delegate webmention handling
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# 23:02 Loqi [Will Norris] Using HSTS with HTTP requests
# 23:03 snarfed not great, since hsts-capable clients would need to use incognito etc to get back to http...but meh
# 23:06 snarfed more broadly, expiring ssl certs definitely hurt site longevity, but i think they're an argument for cert automation like let's encrypts, more than an argument against ssl
# 23:07 snarfed ie we work toward privacy/security *and* longevity, together, instead of a dichotomy
# 23:12 tantek really appreciate that analysis and conclusion snarfed
# 23:12 Loqi snarfed has 6 karma in this channel (289 overall)
# 23:13 tantek because all too often it (like many things) is framed as either or
# 23:13 tantek ^^^ snarfed take your pick and at least capture that short para you just noted as a stub. Super good detail(s) to capture
# 23:17 snarfed damn, guess mediawiki redirects can't include a fragment
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# 23:28 Loqi sknebel has 17 karma in this channel (46 overall)
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