#dev 2017-07-14

2017-07-14 UTC
[chrisaldrich], [dylanon], [cleverdevil] and [miklb] joined the channel
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tantek
hey I saw a micro.blog email announcement that the Micro.blog iOS app is now in the App Store
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tantek
(Apple App Store presumably)
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tantek
is that the first Micropub client in the Apple App Store?
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tantek
!tell aaronpk is the Micro.blog iOS now in the Apple App Store the first officially published iOS app that is a Micropub client? That's probably worth blogging - since now anyone with an iPhone/iPod/iPad can download and use it (presumably with any Micropub server?)
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk
good evening
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Loqi
aaronpk: tantek left you a message 41 minutes ago: is the Micro.blog iOS now in the Apple App Store the first officially published iOS app that is a Micropub client? That's probably worth blogging - since now anyone with an iPhone/iPod/iPad can download and use it (presumably with any Micropub server?)
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aaronpk
iiinteresting
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aaronpk
almost certainly is the first Micropub client in the iOS App Store, but i'm not sure whether it's possible to use it without having a micro.blog account
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[eddie]
It's not possible to use without a micro.blog account
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[eddie]
!tell tantek oops I forgot the "tell". Micro.blog app does require micro.blog access code/account
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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kodo.keybase.pub
created /User:Kodo.keybase.pub (+45) "Created page with "https://github.com/tjgillies kodo@matrix.org""
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gRegorLove
Woo, I got a Flask app up and running. Might play with this for a side project site.
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loqi.me
created /exiftool (+233) "prompted by petermolnar and dfn added by petermolnar"
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petermolnar.net
edited /exiftool (+526) "adding examples"
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[pfefferle]
good morning
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@WendyandCharles
eBooksHabit: Merfolk, media & military collide in this thrilling #UrbanFantasy series #Merfolk #Mermaid #IndieAuth… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/885832157230452740
(twtr.io/1Tu1TujVpSV)
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Zegnat
I don’t get this. Every page on this website is perfectly accessible without JavaScript, yet they feel the need to tell me I should turn on JS and they haven’t bothered making their URLs in anyway “pretty” :/ http://www.vasttrafik.se/?_escaped_fragment_=%2fbiljetter-priser%2fperiodkort%2fvara-periodkort%2fregionen-runt-365%2f
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loqi.me
created /PASTA (+109) "prompted by petermolnar and dfn added by petermolnar"
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jjuran
Zegnat: Looks like JS is necessary for User-Agent sniffing and to display a captcha
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jjuran
(based on my quick skimming of the source)
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schmarty
gRegorLove: nice! flask is fun.
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@WendyandCharles
eBooksHabit: Merfolk, media & military collide in this thrilling #UrbanFantasy series #Merfolk #Mermaid #IndieAuth… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/885856383047827456
(twtr.io/1TuA0PxTrbZ)
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[eddie]
My whole internet suddenly broke and I couldn’t figure out why….. then I noticed I had “disable JavaScript” in my browser when I was testing my site without JavaScript
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Zegnat
schmarty, that is really good news! libsodium seems nice as far as I have read about it :D
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Zegnat
I was looking at libsodium to do public key signing for selfauth actually. Just deemed it more work than I had time to put in to it
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sknebel
Zegnat: libsodium is quite easy to use actually, that's the nice thing about it
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sknebel
proper abstractions
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sknebel
once PHP 7.2(?) is somewhat available I'd revisit that
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Zegnat
Yes, I just wasn’t sure I was going to get private key signing for the tokens properly working without making mistakes in the limited time I had to get selfauth running
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sknebel
sure, it's certainly an advanced feature, and right now not available to most users.
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sknebel
hm, I should make a python version of the token signing in selfauth, then I could replace Kajas custom auth endpoint with selfauth
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Zegnat
There is sodium_compat, but that means extra dependencies that we didn’t want for selfauth either
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sknebel
yeah, unless we do some bundling etc (where I don't know if PHP world has tooling for it) more dependencies aren't so good
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Zegnat
You could bundle the entire selfauth + dependencies as a phar file
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sknebel
I thought phar support that common on random hosts?
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Zegnat
If your server is correctly configured it can offer .phar files for public access and execute its contents (think of .phar as a folder with an index.php in that case)
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sknebel
*is not that
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Zegnat
I think there might be a difference between actual support and proper server configurations
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sknebel
of course we could have a simple and an advanced version
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Zegnat
I seem to recall cweiske having filed an issue on the matter
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Zegnat
cweiske’s article is a great read on the subject, sknebel
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Zegnat
cweiske++
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Loqi
cweiske has 14 karma in this channel (107 overall)
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sknebel
Zegnat: yeah, I saw that, but again, you guys have been the ones pushing for "should run everywhere"
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Zegnat
Yes. And I think that is a good stance to think on a simple implementation like this.
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Zegnat
I would not be opposed to a proper “advanced” version, but don’t have the time to invest right now
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@WendyandCharles
eBooksHabit: Merfolk, media & military collide in this thrilling #UrbanFantasy series #Merfolk #Mermaid #IndieAuth… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/885881480785915904
(twtr.io/1TuK0Ej4a3U)
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aaronpk
ugh ive gotta fix the twitter search
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vanderven.se martijn
edited /pgp (+357) "/* Articles */ Add article used by Aaron, upgrade archive links to HTTPS."
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www.boffosocko.com
deleted /User:Www.boffosocko.com/sandbox/Template:WordPress "Author request: content was: "{{Navbox |title = [[WordPress]] |state = uncollapsed |image = {{{http://s.w.org/about/images/logos/wordpress-logo-notext-rgb.png}}} |above =..." (and the only contributor was "[[Special:Contributions/Www.boffosocko.com|Www.boffosocko.com]]")"
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@WendyandCharles
eBooksHabit: Merfolk, media & military collide in this thrilling #UrbanFantasy series #Merfolk #Mermaid #IndieAuth… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/885894229104488448
(twtr.io/1TuPWAa3VhQ)
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tantek
hello devs
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Loqi
tantek: [eddie] left you a message 12 hours, 30 minutes ago: oops I forgot the "tell". Micro.blog app does require micro.blog access code/account
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tantek
!tell eddie but if you have micro.blog access/account, can you then use the Micro.blog app with any Micropub server? (like your own site?)
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek
aaronpk that's totally worth a blog post, even if they require micro.blog for the identity/auth bit
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tantek
first Micropub app in the Apple App Store right?
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aaronpk
i can do that! with screenshots even
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aaronpk
yeah pretty sure it is!
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tantek
that's pretty huge
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tantek
which reminds me, whatever happened to Checkie?
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tantek
what is Checkie
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "Checkie" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indieweb.org/s/10ov
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www.boffosocko.com
edited /exiftool (+118) "WordPress extraexif plugin; fixed link in dfn"
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@WendyandCharles
eBooksHabit: Merfolk, media & military collide in this thrilling #UrbanFantasy series #Merfolk #Mermaid #IndieAuth… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/885909919421132802
(twtr.io/1TuUsariR0p)
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tantek
searches web for checkie, finds his own 2012 blogpost
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tantek
and the gh link is 404 :(
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tantek
oh wow aaronpk forked it thank goodness https://github.com/aaronpk/Checkie
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Loqi
[aaronpk] Checkie: A lightweight foursquare client for the iOS
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aaronpk
whaaat it's gone?
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aaronpk
i think my fork is super old
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tantek
I just searched gh for it and your repo is the only one left!
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tantek
old should be ok. 4sq API has not changed
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tantek
but now we have micropub!
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GWG
I'm trying to figure out arguments for displaying location.
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GWG
Anyone have any thoughts? I pass in longitude, latitude, and display name...or some combination therefore, and I'm trying to decide what options I would set for display.
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tantek.com
created /Checkie (+463) "stub with dfn, app link, gh repo, brainstorming (want Micropub support), see also"
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tantek
GWG sounds like you may be solving the problem backwards? from the data up to display instead of from the UI/use-case down to the data?
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GWG
tantek: I already solved it.
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GWG
I already display.
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aaronpk
interesting, what's your use case for wanting to post from checkie to your site without sending it to foursquare?
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GWG
I'm thinking how I might want to enhance it.
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GWG
I was trying to write it to match up with raamdev's design and realized I don't have any flexibility.
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seblog.nl
edited /PASTA (-1) "Store to > Save to"
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GWG
I'm trying to make it so the design decision can be passed better down to the end user. Which in some cases is also me.
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GWG
https://indieweb.org/location We don't have a silo location display gallery, do we?
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tantek.com
edited /PASTA (+425) "expand dfn (why it matters), relation to backfill, see also"
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tantek
aaronpk, is https://github.com/aaronpk/Checkie worth moving to indieweb for some collaborative hacking? or better to develop it on your repo first before making it look "ready" for others?
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Loqi
[aaronpk] Checkie: A lightweight foursquare client for the iOS
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tantek
hey can you turn on "issues"? I want to file the "Add micropub support" feature request :)
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aaronpk
i think the recent discussion would lean me towards not moving it to the indieweb org yet
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tantek
aaronpk, yeah that makes sense to me, and what I ended up leaning towards
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tantek
makes sense to keep the indieweb org repos more "real" and semi-immediately-usable by people that happen to stumble upon it
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tantek
instead of half-baked/implemented/old things
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@aaronpk
@timonus Whatever happened to your Checkie app? Looks like it's not on GitHub anymore!
(twtr.io/1TuWAvMtWA8)
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tantek
maybe just ask if he'd consider adding Micropub support then!
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aaronpk
it would be a good starting point for a native Teacup app too actually
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tantek
oh yeah!
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aaronpk
tho the web version has been doing fine for me mostly
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aaronpk
only real problems are switching apps away and back again, usually causes the page to refresh and i lose my in-progress post
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tantek
that seems like a PWA opportunity though I suppose that requires Mobile Safari to support more web standards
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gregorlove.com
edited /Backitude (+2) "link dfn"
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aaronpk
i could at least save some state in cookies (i think localforage was a good wrapper?) but that still wouldn't give me the ability to have the photo continue uploading when the app is put in the background
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gregorlove.com
edited /Observatory (+2) "link dfn"
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seblog.nl
edited /PASTA (+261) "PASTA vs PESOS"
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loqi.me
created /DayOne (+197) "prompted by sebsel and dfn added by sebsel"
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seblog.nl
edited /DayOne (+244) "add export options, can't find how it stores data."
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eddiehinkle.com
edited /on_this_day (+276) "/* Facebook */ added some description regarding mobile access of On This Day"
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eddiehinkle.com
edited /on_this_day (-17) "/* Facebook */ add notification screenshot"
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dgold
hullo hullo indiewebbers!
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dgold
's Friday!
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GWG
Hello, dgold.
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GWG
It's Saturday, actually.
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dgold
it is?
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tantek
GWG, always in the future :)
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GWG
But let's not quibble.
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GWG
tantek: I'm looking forward to going to the past.
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dgold
and me here not even finished my friday beer
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dgold
I've gotten my micropub endpoint working
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tantek
dgold++ awesome!!
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Loqi
dgold has 1 karma in this channel (16 overall)
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GWG
dgold: That's good.
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GWG
What are you going to post first?
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dgold
well, I already posted a 'test post'
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dgold
guess I should post a 'heres what I did'
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dgold
was wondering if rhiaro is active on irc - wanted to thank her
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dgold
anyway - reason I'm here in -dev:
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dgold
I have the mpub endpoint working, saving flat files for my static blog thinger
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dgold
but, and herein lies the rub - the engine (Hugo) needs to be actually 'called' to do its markdown->html thing
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GWG
She can be
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dgold
any ideas on what I could use?
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sknebel
dgold: where do you host the site?
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dgold
sknebel: ascraeus.org is on a vps, sknebel
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dgold
so, I have whatever plumbing i can be persuaded to understand
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sknebel
and the mpub endpoint is what/where? (sorry if I missed some context)
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dgold
sorry, sknebel
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dgold
I've written a php-script that handles micropub
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dgold
that's now the endpoint on my site - https://ascraeus.org
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Loqi
Daniel Goldsmith
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dgold
it handles notes, articles and bookmarks
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dgold
it saves the micropub data as a flat-file markdown, with YAML headers - the site uses Hugo - gohugo.io - as the engine
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dgold
the problem is that hugo needs to be called once a new markdown file has been created
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dgold
otherwise, I'm returning a 201-location to a presently non-existent URI
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aaronpk
you can return 202 with a location header to a non-existent URI to indicate that it doesn't exist yet
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aaronpk
i'm not sure how many clients will do something different when they encounter a 202, but that's the intended response for that situation
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aaronpk
in fact... i should file a ticket on Quill for that. it should not redirect the browser to the post on a 202.
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Loqi
[aaronpk] #80 Show success message and don't redirect on a 202 response from the Micropub endpoint
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@WendyandCharles
eBooksHabit: Merfolk, media & military collide in this thrilling #UrbanFantasy series #Merfolk #Mermaid #IndieAuth… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/885932937782452225
(twtr.io/1TubzgyPEVM)
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dgold
that's.... an interesting indieweb link
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sknebel
#indieauth ...
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sknebel
dgold: if hugo is quick enough you could run it directly from the PHP script and return a 201 afterwards. if it takes longer you should give the job to some kind of background queue
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dgold
sknebel: hugo is _fast_
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Zegnat
aaronpk, why does the 202 also *require* a URL?
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Zegnat
I was wondering about that not long ago. I think it came up in conversation somewhere.
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aaronpk
so that clients have a URL to reference for the post
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aaronpk
otherwise the client wouldn't have a URL to use to update the post for example
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Zegnat
Yeah, but that does mean asynchronous servers also must know the URL before processing the post. What if your URL is dependent on post type, like tantek’s? Still seems to force unnecessary synchronous tasks on the endpoint server I feel
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dgold
sknebel: im unsure how I can call hugo from a php script
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aaronpk
Zegnat: could always return an alternate URL that will eventually redirect to the real URL
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aaronpk
kind of like how in wordpress every post has a URL like ?id=1234 even if you have custom URL slugs on
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dgold
has his nanopub script dealing with different urls dependent on post-type
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sknebel
dgold: I think PHP has "exec" to run external programs? but I'm sure someone with actual PHP experience here or Stack Overflow know better than me ;)
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Zegnat
Ah, so a Micropub client that gets a URL back should not treat that URL as canonical for the post?
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aaronpk
Zegnat: i'm not sure what the use case of treating or not treating as canonical is
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aaronpk
two things micropub clients do with URLs returned: show/redirect the user agent to the post, and store it internally to use for updates
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Zegnat
So show and redirect wouldn’t work for 202 as the client has no way of knowing when the URL gets populated. The second is the only usecase left than, though the endpoint will have to manage the client possibly having a URL in memory that is no longer a post’s canonical URL. While a secondary micropub client might try to send an update for a posts c
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Zegnat
anonical URL (as discovered on the h-feed or something?).
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aaronpk
think of the alternate URL the same way it's dealt with for webmentions
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aaronpk
if you receive a webmention with a target that is an alternate URL of your post (a short link on a different domain for example), you're still supposed to resolve that to the canonical URL when you're processing it
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Zegnat
and yes, dgold, sknebel, PHP’s exec() can execute locally installed tools on the command line, that would include hugo.
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martymcgui.re
edited /PASTA (+559) "add myself as an example"
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Zegnat
That would work, aaronpk. Just means storing an extra identifier with each post, one generated by the Micropub endpoint when it first receives a post.
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aaronpk
yeah that'd be a consideration you'd have to do if you want to create the post asynchronously
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aaronpk
my endpoint creates enough of the post synchronously to get a URL and show most of the contents. I then have background scripts that go and "fill in" pieces of the post, like adding my gps location, fetching reply context or repost content, syndicating, etc
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sknebel
I wouldn't expect much to break if you didn't return a valid URL anyways
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Zegnat
I don’t really think servers wouldn’t be able to handle it. I just thought it weird that when asynchronous is specifically allowed by the spec, the Location was a requirement.
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Zegnat
sknebel, neither do I, or a URL that will only work for a week or something, it is mostly the requirement of Location that stood out to me :)
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sknebel
that's an argument in support of "possibly shouldn't be required"
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martymcgui.re
edited /Camlistore (+305) "/* Features */ mention PASTA importer features"
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Zegnat
Aah, it was cweiske I discussed this with when taking sl007 through some building blocks: https://chat.indieweb.org/2017-07-13#t1499933965930000
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Loqi
[Zegnat] That section sounds weird, cweiske… does it say a URL is send back for 202 too?!
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seblog.nl
edited /PASTA (+210) "PASTA vs personal archiving"
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dgold
fwiw, looking at the w3c on http headers, 202 doesn't require a uri
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sknebel
micropub does
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aaronpk
there are 3 servers that return HTTP 202 + Location according to the implementation reports https://micropub.rocks/implementation-reports/servers/
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aaronpk
probably worth looking at how/why they did that
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dgold
indeed
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sknebel
I know that kaku uses a queue in the background
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sknebel
(nr 3)
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[barryf]
My site returns a 202 because post creation is async so I made Micropublish retry with a little countdown/spinner if it gets a 404 after creating a post.
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[barryf]
I should do a video at some point.
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@aaronpk
@hvdsomp also not sure how you ended up on last year's CR draft of Micropub, the canonical URL is https://www.w3.org/TR/micropub/ (It's a REC now)
(twtr.io/1TueoXTF_BC)
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dgold
has just realised he needs to reimplement everything to use json-encoded micropubs as well.
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seblog.nl
edited /hotlinking (+355) "listed some downsides"
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sknebel
dgold: making one for JSON and then putting code in front to convert form-encoded to the same structure seems to work quite well
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sknebel
(that's how I do it, and I think the wordpress one is structured the same way)
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dgold
sknebel: how do you do the webmention->irc notifications?
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dgold
(totally different topic)
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sknebel
dgold: I run a private IRC server and aaronpks TikTokBot
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sknebel
and my webmention verifier triggers a webhook on that
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sknebel
happy to help you set that up/publish docs on it
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dgold
thanks sknebel I'd be delighted to take any/all advice
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Zegnat
How/why the current Micropub implementations return 202 + Location:
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Zegnat
Kaku seems to use its own event system, queues a create event and then returns a 202 + Location. The “location” value is stored within the post metadata, it seems.
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Zegnat
Aruna also seems to use a job queue, but its URLs are simply a hardcoded https://j4y.co/p/ + $uid, so that is what always gets returned for the Location header.
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Zegnat
Transformative seems to use octokit, which I think is a GitHub client, to store a post in a repo. I am guessing this is a 202 because the actual storing happens asynchronously (I did not dive into octokit). The location is taken from an absolute_url field on the post object, and I am not sure how it is getting filled.
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Zegnat
Kaku’s location value is simply generated from timestamp and the “slug” field on the micropub request
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sknebel
aaronpk: outside of updating cinch, did you check if any of the other updates you did to the Gems used by TikTokBot are important?
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aaronpk
the rest of the updates were because of updating cinch
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sknebel
I think you just updated everything to newest available?
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aaronpk
hm mebbe?
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sknebel
at least if I just update cinch I get a working TTB on Ruby 2.1.5, with the gemfile.lock from the repo I don't
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sknebel
(since something wants a newer ruby)
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sknebel
I guess I'll just "risk it" then and ignore your lockfile
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www.boffosocko.com
edited /code-of-conduct (+70) "wiki display issue; signed"
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@WendyandCharles
eBooksHabit: Merfolk, media & military collide in this thrilling #UrbanFantasy series #Merfolk #Mermaid #IndieAuth… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/885989401372897282
(twtr.io/1TuxEHTcE5s)
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www.svenknebel.de
created /Leaders (+602) "init: what, next, past events"
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tantek
I'm kinda curious how often someone's site goes down because of SSL cert expired
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tantek
also bringing a general convo from #indieweb-wordpress here
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tantek
facepiles vs stream of reactions
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tantek
er, responses
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tantek
[chrisaldrich] noted that he wants facepiles to aggregate all the likes/reposts etc. responses out of the flow of the comments (e.g. on his FB mom-likes post)
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tantek
what are mom-likes
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "mom-likes" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indieweb.org/s/10oz
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loqi.me
created /mom-likes (+25) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek"
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tantek
and I noted that I *started* with facepiles (no stream of responses yet)
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tantek
I'm getting so much noise @-replies on Twitter that I'm not sure how to block those when using services to delegate webmention handling
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snarfed
tantek: re ssl certs, that's one unintended side benefit of redirecting http to https with hsts instead of 301/2: https://willnorris.com/2014/03/using-hsts-with-http-requests
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Loqi
[Will Norris] Using HSTS with HTTP requests
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snarfed
not great, since hsts-capable clients would need to use incognito etc to get back to http...but meh
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snarfed
more broadly, expiring ssl certs definitely hurt site longevity, but i think they're an argument for cert automation like let's encrypts, more than an argument against ssl
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snarfed
ie we work toward privacy/security *and* longevity, together, instead of a dichotomy
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tantek
really appreciate that analysis and conclusion snarfed
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tantek
snarfed++
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Loqi
snarfed has 6 karma in this channel (289 overall)
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tantek
because all too often it (like many things) is framed as either or
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snarfed
thanks!
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tantek
worthy of capturing
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tantek
what is SSL expiration?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "SSL expiration" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indieweb.org/s/10p0
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tantek
what is SSL expired?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "SSL expired" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indieweb.org/s/10p1
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tantek
^^^ snarfed take your pick and at least capture that short para you just noted as a stub. Super good detail(s) to capture
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snarfed
will do
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tantek
(reframed as a positive as opposed to on /https :) )
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tantek
thanks
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@WendyandCharles
eBooksHabit: Merfolk, media & military collide in this thrilling #UrbanFantasy series #Merfolk #Mermaid #IndieAuth… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/886000898283122691
(twtr.io/1Tv1F_JBkqw)
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snarfed
here goes nothing
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loqi.me
created /SSL_expired (+51) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by snarfed"
(view diff)
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loqi.me
created /SSL_expiration (+51) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by snarfed"
(view diff)
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snarfed
yahtzee!
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snarfed
wait, damn, nope
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snarfed
damn, guess mediawiki redirects can't include a fragment
ben_thatmustbeme joined the channel
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sknebel
snarfed: works for me?
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KartikPrabhu
snarfed: me too
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snarfed
sknebel: nope. curl -v https://indieweb.org/SSL_expired shows that it serves the redirect page
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www.svenknebel.de
edited /SSL_expired (+0) "does this fix it?"
(view diff)
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sknebel
double redirect isn't ok
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www.svenknebel.de
edited /SSL_expiration (+2) "HTTPS, not SSL"
(view diff)
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snarfed.org
edited /HTTPS (+686) "/* Maintenance tax and site fragility */ longevity and ssl can be friends!"
(view diff)
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snarfed
sknebel++ thanks!
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Loqi
sknebel has 17 karma in this channel (46 overall)
snarfed, tantek, davidmead and [dylanon] joined the channel