#dev 2017-07-19

2017-07-19 UTC
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@housesitting15 What the New Webmention and Annotation W3C #WordPress#WordPress Optimization#WordPress Speed https://premium.wpmudev.org/blog/webmentions-annotations-web-standards/ https://twitter.com/housesitting15/status/887462491659411456/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/887462491659411456)
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@WorkingWriter New Post: New WPMUDev Post: Webmention and Annotation Standards https://www.michaelmccallister.com/2017/07/new-wpmudev-post-webmention-annotation-standards/ (twitter.com/_/status/887462624396488705)
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miklb.com edited /disclosure (+255) "/* Backfeed Examples */ miklb Twitter & Facebook" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (-45) "events now supported with RSVPs being displayed, document event post support, lots done on events and rsvps display" (view diff)
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mblaney I have a block list on my website, but it currently only blocks webmentions being displayed.
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mblaney I'm not sure I would want it to remove previous comments when I add to to the list, to be honest.
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aaronpk interesting
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@clivewalker @juanfernandes Yes. My sites at http://cvwdesign.co.uk and clivewalker.me. Not sure that clients will understand webmentions, mind ;-) (twitter.com/_/status/887581681292652545)
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jeremycherfas Testing webmention send from Grav to Known; finds the endpoint and then seems to hang.
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Zegnat Any new errors?
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jeremycherfas Hello Zegnat.
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jeremycherfas Investigating now with curl
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jeremycherfas Need to create gists to share.
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jeremycherfas Using this command https://gist.github.com/jeremycherfas/6fcee675d9fe81b77e072f8d4a9e5d97 get this returned https://gist.github.com/jeremycherfas/ff4d841d60b656e84092704373a64bb2
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jeremycherfas Source not supported suggests the problem may be with what Grav plugin is sending, no?
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jeremycherfas Just discovered I have had this issue before http://indieweb.org/irc/2017-04-10/line/1491841936538
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Loqi [[jeremycherfas]] Give a 400 error { “error”: “source_not_supported”, “error_text”: “Could not interpret source as a comment.” }
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jeremycherfas So, better check the source entry markup
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jeremycherfas Source HTML is here https://gist.github.com/jeremycherfas/cf65220b33bfbce520ab169a4117526b
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jeremycherfas Looks to me like it has the necessary mf2 markup. Would you mind taking a look, when you have a moment, zegnat?
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Zegnat Ooh, that is Known saying the source could not be interpreted? Interesting. I’ll have a look, just got fresh tea
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jeremycherfas Meanwhile, I’ll take a look at NotifyCommand.php and try to see if I can figure out why it hangs rather than ending properly.
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Zegnat That markup actually looks completely fine …
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jeremycherfas That’s a relief
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Zegnat You can look at the parsed output here: https://php.microformats.io/?id=20170719094728451
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Zegnat You can see that in-reply-to is filled with the Known URL
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vanderven.se martijn edited /User:Vanderven.se_martijn/WebAuth (+291) "/* Self-Hostable Implementations */ Known includes one too!" (view diff)
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vanderven.se martijn edited /User:Vanderven.se_martijn/WebAuth (+46) "Revert the name back to IndieAuth. Don’t want to give the impression a rename has actually taken place." (view diff)
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vanderven.se martijn edited /Special:Log/move () "moved [[User:Vanderven.se martijn/WebAuth]] to [[User:Vanderven.se martijn/IndieAuth]] over redirect: Moving back…" (view diff)
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jeremycherfas Zegnat: I filed an issue https://github.com/idno/Known/issues/1830
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Loqi [jeremycherfas] #1830 Error: source not supported
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Zegnat Good call. I can’t really go through Known source looking for why it does this.
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Zegnat You are probably better of focussing on WebMentions going the other way: to Grav
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jeremycherfas No, I don’t think you should.
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jeremycherfas I will do that next. But I can only do this in small chunks of time. So, my next task is to move the changes we made to use xray into my local version of webmentions
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jeremycherfas But will also raise and issue with Perlkonig about the notify just hanging.
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vanderven.se martijn uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:indieweblogin.png]]" https://indieweb.org/File:indieweblogin.png"
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vanderven.se martijn edited /IndieAuth (+1825) "/* naming confusion */ Against renaming the standard, pointing out neither consumers nor providers misuse the name, bring up educating users" (view diff)
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sebastianlasse.de edited /IndieWebCamp_kit (+131) (view diff)
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seblog.nl edited /disclosure (+205) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (+998) "working on Display Received Webmentions, note blocking issues (and problems why), payment links for donation use-case" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (+100) "/* Display Received Webmentions */ link bridgy issue" (view diff)
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www.svenknebel.de edited /IndieAuth (+1165) "/* naming confusion */ additional experience from HWC, +1s" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /WARC (+25) "sknebel added "https://webrecorder.io" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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@rubygems jekyll-webmention_io (2.5.1): This Gem includes a suite of tools for managing webmentions in Jekyll: * Tags -… https://rubygems.org/gems/jekyll-webmention_io (twitter.com/_/status/887683253552939009)
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loqi.me created /authN (+51) "prompted by aaronpk and dfn added by aaronpk" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /authZ (+50) "prompted by aaronpk and dfn added by aaronpk" (view diff)
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jeremycherfas.net edited /Known (+34) "/* Development */ Update hosting availability --~~~~" (view diff)
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jeremycherfas.net edited /Known (+102) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ Adding self --~~~~" (view diff)
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www.boffosocko.com edited /longevity (+654) "Digital Life After Death article; Digital inheritance link on Wikipedia" (view diff)
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jeremycherfas_ Zegnat: I have no idea what a TLS offloader is, but I wonder whether this issue could be the source of my problems? Can’t try the workaround till tomorrow.
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Zegnat a TLS offloader? TLS = HTTPS (well, for as far as you care, probably). Not sure how that comes in here.
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jeremycherfas Oops. Forgot the link to the issue. https://github.com/idno/Known/issues/724 But in any case, it seems to have been fixed now.
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Loqi [michielbdejong] #724 webmention behind TLS offloader requires setting url explicitly in config.ini
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Zegnat That shouldn’t stop your grav/known set-up as far as I can see
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jeremycherfas Yeah; clutching at straws here.
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aaronpk huh i haven't heard it called "offloading" before
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aaronpk i've heard it called TLS termination
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tantek checks logs for any more webmention deleting / blocking related thoughts
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tantek.com edited /disclosure (+48) "subheads for indieweb examples, fix typo" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /IndieAuth (+87) "/* naming confusion */" (view diff)
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tantek what is MVF?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "MVF" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek what is MVP
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "MVP" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek MVP is an abbreviation for minimum viable product, the concept and methodology of designing, developing, and deploying the smallest/simplest possible variant of a product as a first step to shipping, getting real world feedback, and iterating from there.
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /MVP (+281) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Zegnat Oh wow I just saw cweiske’s PHAR handling post: http://cweiske.de/tagebuch/phar-webserver2.htm … how does it take 2 years for a patch to get distributed?!
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Loqi [Christian Weiske] Webserver .phar handling lands in distributions
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@thewalkingpixel Implementing Webmentions: https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions #tutorial (twitter.com/_/status/887716225673035776)
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sknebel Debian cuts a stable release every 2 years, with 4 months freeze beforehand. if you miss that and aren't a security patch, you don't get in
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Zegnat In today’s rapid release environment I don’t see how you can freeze patches for 2 years at a time anymore, honestly
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@johnjohnston IndieAuth — WordPress Plugin latest update now lets me log on my blog, which is not at top level of domain:-) https://wordpress.org/plugins/IndieAuth/ (twitter.com/_/status/887726060577718272)
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www.boffosocko.com edited /sandstorm (+68) "redlink typo; pagelogo; moved TOC, addyourself template" (view diff)
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tantek what is log-in
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "log-in" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek a-ha!
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tantek what is sign-in
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "sign-in" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek aaronpk, you pick :)
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loqi.me created /statistics (+191) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /stats (+23) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /statistics (+185) "/* See Also */ new section" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /statistics (+151) "tantek added "2016-06-06 [https://snarfed.org/2016-06-06_bridgy-stats-update-2 Bridgy stats update] with charts, methodology, and links to previous stats updates." to "See Also"" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /statistics (+135) "tantek added "[https://the-federation.info/ The Federation dot info] is a site that shows stats for [[diaspora]], [[Friendica]], and [[Hubzilla]]." to "See Also"" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /statistics (+156) "tantek added "[https://donp.org/graph/dashboard/db/mastodon?orgId=1&from=now-30d&to=now Last 30 days of Mastodon stats] - number of instances, toots per second, users." to "See Also"" (view diff)
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tantek what is Hubzilla
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Loqi Hubzilla (formerly RedMatrix) is an open source, federated, community web server that started as a fork of Friendica https://indieweb.org/HubZilla
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tantek what is RedMatrix
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Loqi Hubzilla (formerly RedMatrix) is an open source, federated, community web server that started as a fork of Friendica https://indieweb.org/RedMatrix
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tantek what is Friendica
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Loqi Friendica is an open source, federated social platform that aims to federate with many other networks (silo and indie alike) https://indieweb.org/Friendica
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tantek what is MPV
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "MPV" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek er
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tantek what is MVP
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Loqi MVP is an abbreviation for minimum viable product, the concept and methodology of designing, developing, and deploying the smallest/simplest possible variant of a product as a first step to shipping, getting real world feedback, and iterating from there https://indieweb.org/MVP
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tantek MPV is /MVP
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /MPV (+16) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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tantek what is MVF
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "MVF" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek MVF is an abbreviation for minimum viable feature, the concept and methodology of designing, developing, and deploying the simplest possible (often seemingly incomplete in comparison to others) but still usable variant of a new feature for a site or product as a means to shipping quickly and iterating based on actual (preferably [[selfdogfood]]) use and experience rather than overdesigning up front and never finishing coding
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /MVF (+456) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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tantek shipping.
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@dimensionmedia Not sure if webmentions will take off, but nice attempt in social media world where blogs are shutting off comments https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/887739063066701824)
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aaronpk ?
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@EchoChamberUncu IndieAuth — WordPress Plugin latest update now lets me log on my blog, which is not at top level of domain:-) | john https://educationechochamberuncut.wordpress.com/2017/07/19/indieauth-wordpress-plugin-latest-update-now-lets-me-log-on-my-blog-which-is-not-at-top-level-of-domain-john/ (twitter.com/_/status/887739473123061761)
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tantek "log on my blog"?
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www.boffosocko.com created /edublogs (+1292) "stub definition and overview and see also" (view diff)
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www.boffosocko.com edited /Indieweb_for_Education (+306) "edublogs and campuspress; WPCampus" (view diff)
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tantek what is webcal
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "webcal" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek webcal is a URL scheme for accessing calendar information (typically via an [[iCalendar]] feed over [[HTTP]]).
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /webcal (+137) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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vanderven.se martijn edited /indieauth.com (+31) "Loqi please" (view diff)
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tantek webcal << Mobile Safari on iOS 10 appears to support "webcal:" links and when activated presents the user with a dialog like "Subscribe to the Calendar “calendarname”?" [ Subscribe ] [ Cancel ]. If you choose Subscribe, the dialog changes to "The Calendar “calendarname” has been added" [ View Events ] [ Done ]
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loqi.me edited /webcal (+329) "/* See Also */ new section" (view diff)
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Loqi ok, I added "Mobile Safari on iOS 10 appears to support "webcal:" links and when activated presents the user with a dialog like "Subscribe to the Calendar “calendarname”?" [ Subscribe ] [ Cancel ]. If you choose Subscribe, the dialog changes to "The Calendar “calendarname” has been added" [ View Events ] [ Done ]" to the "See Also" section of /webcal
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loqi.me created /Firefox_Focus (+153) "prompted by Zegnat and dfn added by Zegnat" (view diff)
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@ErikKyleNielsen Implementing Webmentions https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/887747196992593920)
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@calypsasdigital Implementing Webmentions https://www.calypsas.com/news/internet/implementing-webmentions/ https://twitter.com/calypsasdigital/status/887747209390944258/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/887747209390944258)
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@Btostivint Implementing Webmentions https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions #veille #web #internet #dev #news #trend (twitter.com/_/status/887747287564390400)
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@j3ltedev "Implementing Webmentions" - https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions #dev (twitter.com/_/status/887747612862021633)
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@Beepop_Agency Implementing Webmentions: https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/887747657111916545)
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@Un1v3rs0Z3r0 Implementing Webmentions https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/887747739139833858)
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@CSSTricks_Bot Implementing Webmentions https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/887747887869952000)
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@AstanMedia Implementing Webmentions https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions https://twitter.com/AstanMedia/status/887747896656838656/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/887747896656838656)
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@Zetrex_ #CSS #Layout #Design #Modern #HTML5 # WebDesign Implementing Webmentions https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions https://twitter.com/Zetrex_/status/887747896795217920/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/887747896795217920)
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@johnnykbot #CSS #Tips Implementing Webmentions https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions vía @Real_CSS_Tricks https://twitter.com/johnnykbot/status/887747899047591937/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/887747899047591937)
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@sigmagfx Implementing Webmentions https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions https://twitter.com/sigmagfx/status/887747901534855173/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/887747901534855173)
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@AdamCarr__ Implementing Webmentions https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions #UX #Design #UI https://twitter.com/AdamCarr__/status/887747901430091776/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/887747901430091776)
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@clarka77 #css Implementing Webmentions https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions https://twitter.com/clarka77/status/887747905800384513/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/887747905800384513)
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@riasnelli Implementing Webmentions https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/887747913983676416)
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@web_designerin Implementing Webmentions https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/887747938491002880)
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@bashooka Implementing Webmentions https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/887747974285193216)
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@mizuse2017 Implementing Webmentions: https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/887747989502128129)
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@PurMuseDesigns New post: "Implementing Webmentions" https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/887748428343717888)
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@substitute59 Implementing Webmentions https://socialscud.com/596fac3a9f9d515e226c3f5d/implementing-webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/887748919542915074)
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@WebDesignMO Implementing Webmentions https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions We get a decent amount of comments on blog posts right here on CSS-Tricks (thanks!), but… (twitter.com/_/status/887748926350254081)
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tantek wow
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@studiomobius Implementing Webmentions https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions #webdesign (twitter.com/_/status/887749366492139521)
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@NebulArt Implementing Webmentions https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions https://twitter.com/NebulArt/status/887749397965971456/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/887749397965971456)
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@vishualmedia Implementing Webmentions https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/887749479566385152)
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@mrnoeberlin Implementing Webmentions https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/887749513276006400)
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@ThroughActions Implementing Webmentions https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/887749586328137732)
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@itsfreshmade Implementing Webmentions https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions via @chriscoyier (twitter.com/_/status/887750657024729088)
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@AliceWonder32 I'm trying to figure out what problem #webmentions solves. (twitter.com/_/status/887750817532358656)
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@programmingncr Webmention Client https://www.reddit.com/r/PHP/comments/6oapw4/webmention_client/ #PHP submitted by /u/esherone[link] [comments] (twitter.com/_/status/887751198446673924)
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@onthewebit Implementing Webmentions http://onthewebit.com/2017/07/19/implementing-webmentions/ (twitter.com/_/status/887751451996553218)
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@onthewebit Implementing Webmentions From http://onthewebit.com/2017/07/19/implementing-webmentions/ (twitter.com/_/status/887751579222380544)
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@zulucode Webmention Client https://www.reddit.com/r/PHP/comments/6oapw4/webmention_client/ #php (twitter.com/_/status/887751820105449473)
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@webpoint_new #wp_Dev #reddit #php Webmention Client https://www.reddit.com/r/PHP/comments/6oapw4/webmention_client/ (twitter.com/_/status/887752256690544640)
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@JSB1ogs Implementing Webmentions https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/887753178439192576)
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@gregstout Implementing Webmentions https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions https://twitter.com/gregstout/status/887753184747204608/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/887753184747204608)
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@AliceWonder32 If someone wants to have a conversation with me, they can respond to me, on my site. KISS. #webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/887753324866396160)
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@ElectricHBeat Implementing Webmentions https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions #Link #ehbeat.com (twitter.com/_/status/887753680186859521)
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@AmyLBeall Implementing Webmentions https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions #css (twitter.com/_/status/887754036551847937)
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@RHJOfficial Implementing Webmentions https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions #css #dev (twitter.com/_/status/887754206379220992)
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@GoodContentDude https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions Implementing Webmentions #webdesign #css (twitter.com/_/status/887754272217149442)
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@WebArtFreebies Implementing Webmentions https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/887755320839241729)
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@blossomingmind Implementing Webmentions https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions #csstricks https://twitter.com/blossomingmind/status/887755478717149185/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/887755478717149185)
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@designfeeds Implementing Webmentions @Real_CSS_Tricks: We get a decent amount of comments on blog posts right here on… http://designfeeds.net/article/implementing-webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/887755688201510912)
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@ceci_joannou Implementing Webmentions https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/887755965923241984)
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KartikPrabhu oh boy~
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aaronpk another round of tweets? wonder why
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Zegnat The weird stuff some of these tweets add though. #csstricks?! How?
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aaronpk so much of twitter is just bots now
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@OrangecatProd Implementing Webmentions https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/887756832827158528)
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@BobStovall Implementing Webmentions https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/887756853609996288)
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@oncodeit Implementing Webmentions https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/887757002549731328)
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@wpegg3 Implementing Webmentions https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions #csstricks #css (twitter.com/_/status/887757018580361216)
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@DengSip #css #tips Implementing Webmentions https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/887757053619560448)
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@tonitim1388 Implementing Webmentions https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions https://twitter.com/tonitim1388/status/887757469526614017/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/887757469526614017)
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@ImTalkingPixels Implementing Webmentions https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions #css (twitter.com/_/status/887757535645761537)
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@chriswagoner Implementing Webmentions https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions by Chris Coyier (twitter.com/_/status/887757624925712384)
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@SuperTechWorld Implementing Webmentions https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions #css #webdev (twitter.com/_/status/887757990169915392)
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@4x4developer Implementing Webmentions https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions #css (twitter.com/_/status/887758245187784704)
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@Be_WebDev Implementing Webmentions #webdev #css https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions https://twitter.com/Be_WebDev/status/887758371981492225/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/887758371981492225)
tantek joined the channel
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tantek what is follow
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Loqi follow is a common button in silo UIs (like Twitter) that adds updates from that profile (typically a person) to the stream shown in an integrated reader, and sometimes creates a follow post either in the follower's stream ("… followed …" or "… is following …") thus visible to their followers, and/or in the notifications of the user being followed ("… followed you") https://indieweb.org/follow
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@JonathanCamp Implementing Webmentions - We get a decent amount of comments on blog posts right here on CSS-Tricks (thanks!),... https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/887760313843683329)
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tantek what is suggested friends
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "suggested friends" yet. Would you like to create it?
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@designcess Implementing Webmentions - We get a decent amount of comments on blog posts right here on CSS-Tricks (thanks!),... https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/887760402779693056)
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@MicroUpdate Implementing Webmentions - We get a decent amount of comments on blog posts right here on CSS-Tricks (thanks!),... https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/887760404310523906)
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tantek hmm I thought we had a page for that
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tantek what is suggested follow
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "suggested follow" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek suggested follow is [[who to follow]]
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /suggested_follow (+26) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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@CAYdenberg Webmentions: a W3C spec for what we used to call pingbacks. https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions I like the idea. (twitter.com/_/status/887763439782739968)
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tantek hmm I know I've seen suggested friends in the FB UI but I can't seem to find it now
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tantek all I found was the "Suggest Friends" button which is different (how you can suggest to an existing friend, other friends of yours they should friend)
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tantek what is Suggest Friends
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Suggest Friends" yet. Would you like to create it?_
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Zegnat Make a new account tantek, Facebook pushes you to expand your friends hard when you have very few connections
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@ageeksview Implementing Webmentions https://www.ageeksview.com/implementing-webmentions/ (twitter.com/_/status/887764399011790849)
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tantek Suggest Friends is a button in the [[Facebook]] web UI that is visible when viewing a friend's "Friends" tab on their profile, clicking it brings up a list of your friends that they are not already friends with with a "Suggest Friend" button next to each.
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /Suggest_Friends (+282) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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tantek Suggest Friends << who to follow
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Loqi ok, I added "[[who to follow]]" to the "See Also" section of /Suggest_Friends
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loqi.me edited /Suggest_Friends (+37) "/* See Also */ new section" (view diff)
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tantek who to follow << Suggest Friends
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Loqi ok, I added "[[Suggest Friends]]" to the "See Also" section of /who_to_follow
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loqi.me edited /who_to_follow (+22) "tantek added "[[Suggest Friends]]" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /follow (+742) "move past example to a past section, several "needs screenshot", Follow Button as more UI centric than Follow Webaction, subheads under that" (view diff)
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tantek Zegnat - screenshots welcome on /follow - I added a bunch of (needs screenshot) places for suggested additiona
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tantek *additions
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Zegnat I can take a look later :)
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@dimensionmedia here’s a WordPress plugin using webmentions: https://wordpress.org/plugins/webmention/ https://twitter.com/dimensionmedia/status/887739063066701824 (twitter.com/_/status/887768399278899204)
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@VMSolutionsLtd Implementing Webmentions https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions #WebDesign #Code #MarketingAgency (twitter.com/_/status/887769907265507330)
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@design_pg Implementing Webmentions http://www.danielemilana.it/blog/implementing-webmentions/ (twitter.com/_/status/887770962275573760)
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@design_pg Implementing Webmentions http://www.danielemilana.it/blog/implementing-webmentions-2/ (twitter.com/_/status/887771086343069702)
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tantek Italian translation? or spam? can't tell because js;dr
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seblog.nl edited /disclosure (+49) "/* Sebastiaan Andeweg */ added comment about link in footer" (view diff)
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tantek what is Activello
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Activello" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek Activello is what appears to be a [[WordPress]] theme that displays zero content without JS ([[js;dr]]) and is thus to be avoided.
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /Activello (+157) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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tantek Activello--
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Loqi activello has -1 karma
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tantek waits for that page to hit the search results for Activello
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tantek what is Add Friend
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Add Friend" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek Add Friend is /friending
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /Add_Friend (+22) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
KevinMarks_ joined the channel
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@devnewsbot Implementing Webmentions https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/887774947657035776)
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@onebasemedia Implementing Webmentions https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/887775400457326593)
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@remotesynth The Webmentions spec handles links/discussion about a post that occurs on external platforms (i.e. not in comments) https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/887776306842267649)
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vanderven.se martijn edited /relationship-status (+352) "Add IndieWeb Example" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /relationship-status (+958) "dfn, headings, articles, see also" (view diff)
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vanderven.se martijn edited /User:Vanderven.se_martijn (+948) "/* My personal website. */ Document big change of my personal site" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /friending (+218) "indieweb examples none, silo examples heading, note explicitly Facebook's Add Friend button from screenshot" (view diff)
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@AlexRodDesign Implementing Webmentions #CSS https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/887780094793711623)
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vanderven.se martijn deleted /wiki/pronouns "Don’t know how I got /wiki/ in front here :S"
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tantek what is Add as Friend
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Add as Friend" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek Add as Friend is /friending
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /Add_as_Friend (+22) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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tantek what is Confirm
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Confirm" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek what is Ignore
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Ignore" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek is finally going through The Social Network Trailer
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@superxteam Implementing Webmentions - http://www.superxteam.com/blog/implementing-webmentions-2/ (twitter.com/_/status/887781900672270336)
leg joined the channel
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@shahw1 Via annerallen Sell Books without Selling your Soul with Orna Ross | Self-Publishing Advice Center - http://ir.shareaholic.com/e?a=1&u=https%3A%2F%2Fselfpublishingadvice.org%2Ffringe-highlight-sell-your-books-without-selling-your-soul-with-orna-ross%2F%253Futm_campaign%253Dshareaholic%2526utm_medium%253Dtwitter%2526utm_source%253Dsocialnetwork&r=1 via indieauth… (twitter.com/_/status/887782630216925184)
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@jonathanfidi Implementing Webmentions https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/887782634985750531)
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tantek Confirm is /friending
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /Confirm (+22) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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tantek Ignore is /friending
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /Ignore (+22) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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@jonathanfidi Implementing Webmentions https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/887783719779663873)
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tantek.com edited /The_Social_Network (+2304) "/* Trailer */ Features shown" (view diff)
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tantek done
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aaronpk !!
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aaronpk amazing
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tantek.com edited /The_Social_Network (+0) "/* Trailer */ number summary items" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /The_Social_Network (+162) "/* Features shown */ note feature" (view diff)
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tantek 11 features if I counted right
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tantek most of which there are indieweb solutions and deployments
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aaronpk what's missing?
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tantek Four features: Add as Friend, relationship-status editing, Confirm/Ignore friend request, note post creating on someone else's wall
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aaronpk posting to someone's wall! interesting
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tantek Three if you consider "Add as Friend" and "Confirm"/"Ignore" part of the same feature, but from the experience of Webmention implementing sending/receiving those are different features
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aaronpk i'm curious about this friending thing. I feel like that needs to get broken down a bit before we have a path forward.
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tantek so I've kept them separate, but combined Confirm/Ignore into one as I don't see how that's marginally more difficult than just doing one
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tantek that's what inspired it - no one in SWWG is bothering to document existing UIs
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tantek so I went back to where I know there was a canonical example documented
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aaronpk do you want to define this use of friending in terms of the feature set that facebook provides when friending someone?
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tantek TSN trailer
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tantek I want to *document* that at a minimum
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tantek but I'd prefer to see additional examples: https://indieweb.org/friending
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aaronpk i think it's two parts: if I friend someone, then I show up in their list of friends on *their* profile, and also I start seeing their posts.
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tantek before we try to design/define an indieweb friending feature
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aaronpk they feel like separate features to me
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tantek it's far more than two parts
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aaronpk because I can follow someone's content without them listing me as a friend
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tantek there's all the implicit group / ACL stuff
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aaronpk and facebook even launched that "follow" feature later as well
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tantek all of that needs expansion on https://indieweb.org/friending
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aaronpk oh yeah the whole ACL stuff is another layer
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aaronpk but even with public content there's more to it than "just" a friend request
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tantek indeed
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[kevinmarks] The comments on my blog post there though
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[kevinmarks] Friending (with mutual agreement) predates follow as a UI feature I think. There was "subscribe to feed" but not follow per se
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tantek kevinmarks - have to check what LJ did
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tantek certainly Flickr had follow as a UI feature
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tantek (adding someone without requiring confirmation, regardless of what it was called in the UI)
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tantek wonder if it's worth using that list of 11 as the next acid test of sorts
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aaronpk there's a SWAT1 already right? or am i remembering something else
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tantek there was a SWAT1 proposed back in the old days of when there the first claims of SWAT0 passing
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aaronpk aha
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tantek but didn't go anywhere, never any consensus
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tantek hmm that's worth at least looking up / citing
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tantek what is SWAT0
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Loqi SWAT0 is an abbreviation for The Social Web Acid Test level 0 and is a user-feature interoperability test for social web functionality defined on 2010-07-18 at FSWS2010 https://indieweb.org/SWAT0
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tantek what is SWAT1
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "SWAT1" yet. Would you like to create it?
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aaronpk whoops, that fsw URL is dead http://tantek.com/2010/199/t3/fsws-social-web-acid-test-swat-v0
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Loqi [Tantek Çelik] we (@daveman692 @evanpro + I) just came up with a #fsws Social Web Acid Test (SWAT) v0 draft. full description, challenge: user A takes a photo of B from their phone and posts it, B gets notified that they are in a photo, C who follows A gets the pho...
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tantek yeah evan let it expire ages ago :(
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tantek https://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/federatedsocialweb/wiki/FSWS2010_Next_Meeting_and_FSWS2011
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tantek lol: "CITATIONS NEEDED. If this "is trivial" (in public), then please provide URLs" yeah I keep challenging everyone who says things are trivial / not difficult
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Zegnat totally forgot about SWAT0
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Zegnat Looks like I almost pass SWAT0
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aaronpk o.O
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tantek.com edited /SWAT0 (+231) "SWAT1 brainstorming and link" (view diff)
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tantek sigh
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Zegnat realises he will probably never pass SWAT0 and goes to bed
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Zegnat Have a good one everyone!
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tantek Zegnat, no one person can "pass" SWAT0
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aaronpk eh that's just semantics. I assume that if you say you can pass SWAT0, it means you can pass each role in SWAT0.
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tantek.com edited /SWAT0 (+766) "Misconceptions" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk, I wish it were. it has been used in the past to assert and post a video of "passing" SWAT0 with one person using one project
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Zegnat Let’s rephrase: I will probably never be able to fulfil role A
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aaronpk i would argue that one project can pass SWAT0 if it's running in three separate places. now that's not saying much because interoperating with yourself is just a monoculture, but it's certainly a step in the right direction.
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tantek nope, the definition specifically excludes that
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aaronpk reviews
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tantek https://indieweb.org/SWAT0#My_project_passes_SWAT0
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aaronpk "Assumptions: Dave, Tantek, and Evan have accounts on different social networks"
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@Picksor_waotd Implementing Webmentions https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/887793237779296256)
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aaronpk "These social networks have at least two different codebases"
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tantek believe me I knew people would be trying to aim for that kind of a lower bar and that's why I documented it explicitly in 2010
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aaronpk yup k
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tantek because there were a lot of people claiming they could do it at FSWS2010
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aaronpk then if someone says "my project passes SWAT0" I hear that as they can play each role in SWAT0
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tantek I hear that as "I didn't actually read the test description"
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aaronpk heh
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aaronpk then what's the right way to say you pass SWAT0?
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tantek or more broadly "I have no concept of the problem of monoculture"
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tantek you can't. hence we documented the roles separately
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aaronpk it's very awkward to describe the situation in which you can pass each role
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aaronpk which is why i think people keep saying they pass SWAT0
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aaronpk we'll need better terminology to describe passing a particular role
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tantek they should say "my site/software/service can perform SWAT0 roles A,B, and C"
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aaronpk is that documented anywhere?
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aaronpk or are there any examples of people having said that?
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tantek uh, thought that was an obvious summary?
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tantek we've certainly had chats in #indiewebcamp ages ago about "I can do role A" or whatever
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tantek probably from IWC 2015
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aaronpk the positive framing of that should be documented after the misconceptions https://indieweb.org/SWAT0#Misconceptions
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Zegnat So my complience is more like this? ‘I am currently almost able to fulfil role B (the only thing I don’t do is identify the “type” of webmention as specifically being “a tag on a photo” or something else), I am actively working towards fulfilling role C (being able to start a post from my reader), but will not be able to fulfil role A in any forese
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Zegnat eable future.’
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aaronpk 'instead, say ___'
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tantek yeah true
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@89ArtsOfficial Implementing Webmentions https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/887794270907904000)
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aaronpk Zegnat: what part of A are you struggling with?
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tantek.com edited /SWAT0 (+386) "/* Misconceptions */ Instead" (view diff)
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Zegnat I am not struggling with anything aaronpk. I can’t do salmentions unless I start including comments on my posts, and that is something I have decided against doing.
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tantek aaronpk done
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aaronpk Zegnat: aha!
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aaronpk interesting
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Zegnat I might not be alone in not wanting to show comments on my posts. Anyone who made that same decision (for whatever reason) cannot fulfil role A.
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aaronpk reviews SWAT0 to remember why salmention sending is part of it
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tantek aaronpk: last step, the person tagged in the photo gets a notification that someone else commented on it
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tantek you as it were :) https://indieweb.org/SWAT0#Summary
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tantek with all the site rewrites/updates/outages it's not clear if there is a demonstrable set of SWAT0 roles today!
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aaronpk hm yeah without listing comments on the post that step would be difficult
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Zegnat Another way you can never perform role A is if you are using an external service for comments. Take tantek’s RSVPs for example, those aren’t actually part of his page markup so even if he were to send salmentions when an RSVP comes in, there is nothing for the receiver to parse.
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Zegnat salmentions being required for role A up the bar by a lot
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tantek Zegnat we had some brief brainstorms about how to direct salmentions into an iframe or 3rd party service but I can't recall where that ended up
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Zegnat You’d have to change post parsing to being more than just mf2 parsing, which sounds like a lot of additional infrastructure to me
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aaronpk hm
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aaronpk rel=comments ... isn't that a thing?
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tantek or "responses" ?
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tantek or we have to say how to interepret a u-responses on an iframe?
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tantek that sounds close
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aaronpk this discussion sounds familiar
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tantek re: next acid test BTW
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tantek Indieweb Social Network Trailer Acid Test from Examples Shown in Trailer
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@superxteam Implementing Webmentions - http://www.superxteam.com/blog/implementing-webmentions-3/ (twitter.com/_/status/887797799303163905)
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aaronpk i see what you did there
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tantek what ISNTATEST?
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tantek what IS ISNTATEST
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "ISNTATEST" yet. Would you like to create it?
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aaronpk oh boy here we go
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aaronpk Zegnat: would you be willing to link to a separate page where people can read comments on your posts, instead of showing the posts directly?
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aaronpk like a "view comments" link on your posts
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tantek ISTNATEST is a proposed Indieweb Social Network Trailer Acid Test from Examples Shown in Trailer. See: [[The_Social_Network#Features_shown]]
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Zegnat Unsure aaronpk, haven’t considered that at all ’til this very second
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tantek ISNTATEST is a proposed Indieweb Social Network Trailer Acid Test from Examples Shown in Trailer. See: [[The_Social_Network#Features_shown]]
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loqi.me created /ISNTATEST (+168) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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tantek ISNTATEST << SWAT0
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Loqi ok, I added "[[SWAT0]]" to the "See Also" section of /ISNTATEST
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loqi.me edited /ISNTATEST (+29) "/* See Also */ new section" (view diff)
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aaronpk it depends on your motivations for not showing comments
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Zegnat Also: rel=comments would probably be bad as rel is page-scoped, would mean those links cannot be included in a feed
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tantek hence u-responses
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tantek what are responses
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Loqi responses, or interactions, in the context of the indieweb, refer to all the different ways and things people explicitly do to and with others’s posts, from written replies to quick likes, in other words responses = replies + reactions https://indieweb.org/responses,
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aaronpk but linking to a page that has the comments would mean external webmention receivers like webmention.io could be used if they rendered the comments with microformats
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tantek precisely
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aaronpk the additional work for consumers means following another URL but that's marginal extra effort
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tantek that sounds like a Webmention extension!
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Zegnat Wait, a webmention extension?
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www.boffosocko.com edited /blogroll (+20) "who to follow" (view diff)
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aaronpk isn't it.. a salmention extension?
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Zegnat It sounds like an h-entry extension for linking to an external page for consumers to do comment parsing on. That’s it, right?
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Zegnat And salmention would need a small addendum that a salmention might be received for external page changes if those pages are inheritly linked to the h-entry (e.g. u-responses). Something like that
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tantek.com edited /ISNTATEST (+966) "Brainstorming / To Be Defined" (view diff)
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tantek There you go aaronpk, https://indieweb.org/ISNTATEST#To_Be_Defined
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aaronpk ?
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www.boffosocko.com edited /Activello (+66) "prompted by tantek" (view diff)
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tantek # daturldoe
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Zegnat This could make sense. I probably still wouldn’t implement it personally. I treat comments as commentary for me to read and not as food for public discussions. At least surrounding my site.
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tantek aaronpk, really the plan here is to get some set of people passing such a ISNTATEST and then use those indieweb sites to remake the trailer ;)
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aaronpk omg
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Zegnat What is a backronym?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "backronym" yet. Would you like to create it?
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aaronpk i will absolutely make that trailer
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Zegnat Darn, I don’t feel like defining, but really wanted to add ISNTATEST there :p
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Zegnat Eitherway, u-responses for an external resource with the responses sounds interesting. Good discussion. Now I really should get to bed~
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aaronpk ?
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tantek then the race is on to figure out https://indieweb.org/ISNTATEST#To_Be_Defined, brainstorm a sensible test flow with roles for at least two actors, preferably more, and then implement them
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aaronpk what is a guest book?
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Loqi guestbook is a way to allow visitors to your site to leave a comment about the website as a whole, instead of a comment about a specific post https://indieweb.org/guest_book
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aaronpk that feels related to posting on a wall
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tantek similar, prior art at least
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tantek except posts on someone's wall show up on their profile intermixed with their own posts
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aaronpk yeah it ends up looking like i reposted their post
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aaronpk cause it just looks like another post in the list
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tantek no there are details that indicate otherwise
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aaronpk hm i'm not seeing them
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aaronpk i see two posts on my facebook profiile that are from different people
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aaronpk although... it looks like I was tagged in those posts and now they show up there
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aaronpk is that different?
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tantek yes that's different
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tantek it's an option to have posts you're tagged in (e.g. others' photos) show up in your timeline or not
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aaronpk gosh that's just entirely different, is anyone doing that on their site?
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tantek the "writing on your wall", now called "posted on your timeline" has a different UX
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tantek that would likely be something you might implement after an integrated /reader and /friending
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aaronpk really it's just republishing a received webention
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[chrisaldrich] though semantically different, guest posts feel something akin to posting on someone else's wall...
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tantek oh true
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tantek [chrisaldrich]: still very different IMO
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aaronpk i don't have this on my new site, but i used to have a /mentions page that showed my received webmentions
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aaronpk it'd be like if I included the ones that were person-tags of me on my home page
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tantek the posting on a wall has a subtly different authorship UI
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tantek aaronpk: yeah!
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tantek in FB it shows PersonA ▶️ PersonB
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aaronpk aha i just found one
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tantek search your email archives for "posted on your timeline"
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aaronpk i usually delete those
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tantek I auto-file them
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aaronpk lol! there are a bunch from <2014 and they're all from my birthdays
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tantek because they're plain text equivalents, they're useful for search!
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tantek yes primary use-case due to being prompted to do so
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tantek also search "tagged you"
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tantek what is a wall
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Loqi wall is the original name for a feature launched on Facebook which is a user's stream of updates shown on their profile page, similar to the main stream of posts you might show on your indieweb homepage, however with key innovations such as allowing your friends to "write" (create) posts on your wall, and also showing others' public posts that person-tag you https://indieweb.org/wall
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www.boffosocko.com edited /statistics (+16) "redlink typo; indie map" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /wall (+113) "subheads" (view diff)
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tantek what is indiemap
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "indiemap" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek what is indie map
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Loqi indie map is a public IndieWeb social graph and dataset, made by Ryan Barrett and launched at IndieWeb Summit 2017 http://www.indiemap.org https://indieweb.org/indie_map
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tantek indiemap is [[indie map]]
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /indiemap (+22) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:facebook-posted-on-your-timeline.png]]" https://indieweb.org/File:facebook-posted-on-your-timeline.png"
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tantek Facebook << The Social Network
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loqi.me edited /Facebook (+25) "tantek added "[[The Social Network]]" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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Loqi ok, I added "[[The Social Network]]" to the "See Also" section of /Facebook
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aaronparecki.com edited /wall (+146) "add facebook example" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /wall (+116) "clarify, note names linked" (view diff)
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[kevinmarks] Isn't a test?
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tantek welcome back KevinMarks :D
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[kevinmarks] I think acegiak is the only one who can play roles A, B and C in SWAT0
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tantek we think, but no one has tested with right?
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tantek.com edited /ISNTATEST (+2) "link wall" (view diff)
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[kevinmarks] I tested with the roles I could play
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tantek.com edited /The_Social_Network (+6) "/* Features shown */ link wall" (view diff)
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[chrisaldrich] Yes, in some sense, my http://boffosocko.com/mentions/ feels kind of like people with the ability to write on my wall. Maybe I should change the path to /Wall?
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Loqi @Mentions
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tantek [chrisaldrich]: as a separate page it's not your wall. FB used "wall" to mean a feature of your profile / home page
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tantek I think in indieweb terms, posting on someone's wall would be syndicating to it
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aaronpk true
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tantek perhaps the way syndicating to Bridgy Publish or IndieNews works
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@alligatorio Implementing Webmentions: https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions https://twitter.com/alligatorio/status/887808033744715776/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/887808033744715776)
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aaronpk i was going to say
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aaronpk that sounds like IndieNews
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tantek except the target being someone else's home page
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aaronpk syndicating to IndieNews' wall
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tantek I'd say that's a core part of the default permissions from accepting a "Friend" request
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aaronpk you can follow IndieNews' page just like someone's home page, they're only different because IndieNews doesn't represent a person
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tantek or even making a friend request - you're saying you're ok with the other person writing on your wall
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tantek and by accepting, they are too vice versa
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aaronpk i don't think it has to be reciprocal, but i like it
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tantek "friending" is by dfn reciprocal
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aaronpk i mean i don't think the ability to post on someone's wall needs to be reciprocal
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tantek.com edited /friending (+213) "Brainstorming Posting to another wall" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk, well it necessarily can't be required
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tantek since only person may implement it (across a friend request pair)
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tantek.com edited /friending (-131) "undo and note friending grants permission to write on each others walls" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /wall (+213) "Brainstorming / Posting to another wall" (view diff)
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[chrisaldrich] I can oAuth from my Known site at stream.boffosocko.com into my other multi-user hub Known site known.boffosocko.com, which essentially does that "wall" to "wall" posting.
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tantek [chrisaldrich]: yes and overkill a bit since that authing may grant too much permission in a person to person context
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tantek hence the preference to use webmention instead
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[chrisaldrich] It works via portions of https://github.com/mapkyca/KnownKnown
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Loqi [mapkyca] KnownKnown: Simple Known cross poster, written to test my OAuth server and the API
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[chrisaldrich] Webmention is certainly a smaller "circle of trust" https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/folder579/500x/65705579/circle-of-trust-circle-of-trust-youre-in-it.jpg
KevinMarks joined the channel
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tantek hmm I wonder if filtering webmentions and/or blocking sources could be a separate service
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tantek e.g. use wmio for collecting all of your wms (unfiltered), then send its output (API results) into another service "wmfilter" which would know (keep track of) what WM URLs to delete or author URLs to block, and it would pass through everything else
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tantek it's less efficient (especially for something like homepage mentions from Twitter) but might be a workaround to trying to make wmio smarter
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tantek alternatively, aaronpk, I'm curious how hard you think https://github.com/aaronpk/webmention.io/issues/86 would be
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Loqi [tantek] #86 Feature: persistent webmention delete
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@WebDesignSmarty Implementing Webmentions https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/887816867804581888)
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aaronpk #86 is definitely doable