#dev 2017-09-27

2017-09-27 UTC
tantek, clintpatty, eli_oat, renem_, leg, Kaja__ and kline joined the channel
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tantek this is kind of the opposite of a tweetstorm UI: https://twitter.com/chriscoyier/status/912426652310917122
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@chriscoyier Are typeset blog posts too hard for you to read? Here's a script to turn them into a ? tweetstorm ? https://codepen.io/chriscoyier/pen/RZEVVm/ https://twitter.com/chriscoyier/status/912426652310917122/video/1 (twitter.com/_/status/912426652310917122)
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tantek tweetstorm << 2017-09-25 [https://twitter.com/chriscoyier/status/912426652310917122 Are typeset blog posts too hard for you to read? Here's a script to turn them into a tweetstorm] - https://codepen.io/chriscoyier/pen/RZEVVm/ (js;dr link)
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@chriscoyier Are typeset blog posts too hard for you to read? Here's a script to turn them into a ? tweetstorm ? https://codepen.io/chriscoyier/pen/RZEVVm/ https://twitter.com/chriscoyier/status/912426652310917122/video/1 (twitter.com/_/status/912426652310917122)
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Loqi ok, I added "2017-09-25 [https://twitter.com/chriscoyier/status/912426652310917122 Are typeset blog posts too hard for you to read? Here's a script to turn them into a tweetstorm] - https://codepen.io/chriscoyier/pen/RZEVVm/ (js;dr link)" to the "See Also" section of /tweetstorm
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loqi.me edited /tweetstorm (+227) "tantek added "2017-09-25 [https://twitter.com/chriscoyier/status/912426652310917122 Are typeset blog posts too hard for you to read? Here's a script to turn them into a tweetstorm] - https://codepen.io/chriscoyier/pen/RZEVVm/ (js;dr link)" to "See Al" (view diff)
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aaronpk Gonna have to try this tomorrow https://gist.github.com/Prof9/c16fc4997e0ef5b22a15c43edd7f5f49
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[kevinmarks] I wonder if that works in the api too
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@etportis @davatron5000 Dave I just need to refactor this CSS a bit and implement webmentions and THEN I can REALLY WRITE (twitter.com/_/status/913042701938974720)
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keithjgrant.com edited /Omnibear (-13) (view diff)
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[miklb] I’m confused by this. Is he reinventing the wheel because he can? https://paul.kinlan.me/the-web-is-my-api/
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tantek braces himself to get upset
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aaronpk I thought that headline sounded familiar https://aaronparecki.com/2015/04/26/22/html-is-my-api
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] HTML is my API
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aaronpk Whoa another .rocks domain? https://webpush.rocks
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[miklb] yeah, that caught my eye as well.
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tantek [miklb]: hey at least he links to that good mahemoff article http://softwareas.com/cors-scraping-and-microformats/
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tantek in general that blog post seems more "too abstract without specific use-cases" rather than reinventing the wheel
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tantek i.e. I can't tell for what use-case he's "reinventing the wheel"
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tantek but maybe I'm being dim
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tantek kpraslowicz: is your CMS open source? and what's your personal site running it?
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kpraslowicz Currently I have it in private repos.
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kpraslowicz www.kpraslowicz.com & www.six-something.org are the only two sites running on it.
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tantek cool - multiple sites!
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tantek yjsy
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tantek oops.
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tantek that's always a good test of a CMS. the second deploy can be particularly illuminating
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kpraslowicz It took so much reengineering to handle multiple sites. :D
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kpraslowicz First version was very much written with the expecation of only ever powering just one of my sites.
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aaronpk I know that feeling haha
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Loqi ahahahaha
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kpraslowicz Each site is a seperate install now. The thoguht of coding again to be actual multi-tenant scares me.
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tantek yeah that's much harder
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aaronpk oh yeah that's a different problem :)
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kpraslowicz For my small ecosystem, multiple install is fine
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kpraslowicz Only take down one site at a time when I push a new bug.
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tantek makes sense
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tantek kpraslowicz: have you tried out indiewebify.me?
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kpraslowicz Not yet. Just discovered this last weekend, haven't had any time yet to do any coding
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kpraslowicz I got a big pile of technical debt I'm cleaning up first, but the goal is to get the CMS publishing to Twitter for me
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tantek Since you've already got your personal site setup (very nice photos btw), indiewebify will help with step by step adding more indieweb features / functionality
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kpraslowicz For sure
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tantek +1 to getting your CMS to publish to Twitter for you
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tantek that was one of the first things I added also after just getting basic posts showing up on my site
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skippy How do folks handle @-mentions to you on Twitter that AREN'T replies to POSSE content you created? Do you capture and display those on your own sites? Or do you only capture and post replies to things you've POSSEd?
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tantek oh boy
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tantek skippy, do you mean @-mentions unrelated to a particular tweet? or do you mean tweets for which you have no original post on your site?
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skippy both?
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tantek for the latter, don't :) or rather, /ownyourdata and always post to your site and syndicate to Twitter :)
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tantek (including your own @-replies to others tweets)
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aaronpk what is a home page webmention?
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Loqi person mention is a homepage webmention sent to a person's homepage https://indieweb.org/home_page_webmention
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tantek and that's the former ^^^
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aaronpk if someone @-mentions me on twitter without replying to a tweet, it gets turned into a home page mention by bridgy
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aaronpk i see those, but I don't display them back on my site
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skippy thanks!
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tantek others get notifications from such homepage mentions, but also don't display them
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tantek I think there are a few that do display, perhaps kevinmarks
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tantek and GWG's homepage mentions get displayed on his /about page!
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tantek.com edited /Twitter (-49) "been consistently 23 chars for a while now" (view diff)
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GWG I want to do something about that, like a link
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tantek kpraslowicz: re: getting your "CMS publishing to Twitter" - I took *a lot* of notes while buliding that myself, captured here: https://indieweb.org/Twitter#POSSE_to_Twitter (perhaps more detail than you need initially, but I figured I might as well document all the challenges I encountered and approaches/solutions I ended up with)
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tantek what is CMS publishing to Twitter
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "CMS publishing to Twitter" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek CMS publishing to Twitter is /Twitter#POSSE_to_Twitter
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /CMS_publishing_to_Twitter (+37) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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snarfed kpraslowicz: re publishing to twitter, feel free to try https://brid.gy/about#publishing . lets you avoid writing twitter API code, truncating logic, etc
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singpolyma I actually had my own Twitter API code and switched to brid.gy publish because it's a bit cleaner and I don't have to keep it up to date as Twitter invents new things :)
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singpolyma Highly recommended
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aaronpk speaking of which, 280 chars anyone?
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tantek snarfed - Bridgy publish is one of the three options at the very top of that section I cited
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tantek though I'll update the link to be more specific
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singpolyma aaronpk: Yeah... that's just weird :P After all this time... and 280 is a weird number
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tantek it's a nice freeway
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tantek.com edited /Twitter (+52) "/* POSSE to Twitter */ specific link for Bridgy publish option" (view diff)
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[miklb] I questioned expansion of characters until I saw argument for other languages. Seems would be easier to do for everyone than try to sniff which language and support >
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[miklb] other languages than English
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aaronpk i mean 140 is a pretty weird number too, and has no real significance anymore
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tantek at least 140 was dictated by SMS protocol limits.
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aaronpk yeah just doesn't really have any reason to still be that anymore
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aaronpk it made sense before URLs were shortened, before the new @-reply rules, before images could be attached, etc
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tantek right
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singpolyma For sure, the 140 has been a lie for awhile
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aaronpk but you can't really faithfully represent a tweet in 140 characters anymore
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aaronpk like to actually deliver via SMS
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tantek aaronpk, my code still does
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aaronpk not sure what you mean
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tantek because I haven't bothered to make any exceptions for all the new stuff like new @-reply rules
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aaronpk take an arbitrary tweet and you can't actually send it via SMS in a way that conveys the full info
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tantek my POSSE copies to Twitter will deliver 100% via SMS
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tantek that are published by Falcon
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aaronpk sure, you can author tweets that still fit within the 140 rule
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tantek I mean, predictably. and up to the limit.
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aaronpk that's not really my point
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[miklb] you count URL characters tantek?
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tantek no, not just author. my code will truncate precisely
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aaronpk again, not the point :P
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tantek I can author any note I want on my site, and Falcon will truncate to precisely fit it
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tantek aaronpk, not sure what your point is then
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tantek I'm saying your statement "you can't actually send it via SMS in a way that conveys the full info" is false by example of my code still doing it
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aaronpk most tweets on twitter aren't deliverable via SMS in a way that actually makes sense anymore
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aaronpk of course you can still write tweets that do
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tantek no, I'm not talking about "writing"
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tantek no matter what I "write", my code will deliver it in a way that 100% of it will make it to / through classic SMS
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aaronpk s/write/create
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aaronpk right, and that SMS version is different from what you authored on your site
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aaronpk you're a super edge case here
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tantek and I'm fine with that because I'm fine with Twitter only getting summaries or truncations, since it's a silo
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tantek dons his super edge case cape :)
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aaronpk that would be a fun cape to wear at the next IWC
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snarfed hey aaronpk how's OYG's instagram scraping these days? rate limited much?
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snarfed bridgy is, badly, so i'm curious
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aaronpk oh interesting, not sure i've noticed
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aaronpk i don't think i'm logging the response code from instagram
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aaronpk I should probably start doing that
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snarfed they don't say it explicitly, but i interpret their 503s as rate limiting
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aaronpk seems likely
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Loqi +1
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aaronpk i think i'm hitting it far less than you are tho
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snarfed maybe
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snarfed very rough order of magnitude estimate, i send maybe .5qps
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aaronpk i'm not even sure what mine is, heh
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aaronpk time to set up some graphing i guess
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snarfed monitoring++
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Loqi monitoring has 1 karma
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snarfed ?
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kpraslowicz Thanks for the resources snarfed & tantek
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tantek no problem
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tantek kpraslowicz: I will note one large exception - I have done nothing with the 280 thing
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tantek though I have found a few examples that may help illuminate what to do with 280 chars in tweets
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tantek since it's a quiet morning, I will share them, for the record
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tantek https://twitter.com/kennethn/status/913053785517260801
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@kennethn Super excited about the move to 280 characters! ---- CONFIDENTIALITY. This tweet is intended only for the use of the recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient any dissemination of this tweet is prohibited. If you received this in error notify the sender immediately. (twitter.com/_/status/913053785517260801)
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tantek https://twitter.com/codepo8/status/913060263368232960
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@codepo8 Finally 280! ----------------------------------------------------------------- Please consider the environment before printing this tweet (twitter.com/_/status/913060263368232960)
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kpraslowicz Hahhaha
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Loqi awesome
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kpraslowicz Finally tweet signatures
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tantek And finally: https://twitter.com/DanMentos/status/912884851665117184
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@DanMentos ┳┻| ┻┳| ┳┻| ┻┳| ┳┻| ┻┳| ┳┻| ┻┳| ┳┻| ┻┳| ┳┻| ┻┳| ┳┻| ┻┳| ┳┻| ┻┳| ┳┻| ┻┳| ┳┻| ┻┳| ┳┻| ┻┳| ┳┻| ┻┳| ┳┻| ┻┳| ┳┻| ┻┳| ┳┻| ┻┳| ┳┻| ┻┳| ┳┻| _ ┻┳| •.•) this seems excessive ┳┻|⊂ﾉ ┻┳| (twitter.com/_/status/912884851665117184)
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tantek (see the original on twitter for full vertical effect)
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kpraslowicz I am also curious to see what happens to my organic traffic once I dump eight years of tweets onto my domain all at once.
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tantek do you support sending webmentions to things you link to?
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kpraslowicz Not yet
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tantek I'd suggest at least 1) markup your posts with h-entry (verify with indiewebify.me), and 2) make sure your post publish/update code/flow sends webmentions for all links in your posts
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tantek before importing eight years of tweets
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kpraslowicz Aye
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tantek and make sure the import is set to do that, THEN you'll see some interesting organic traffic :)
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kpraslowicz Nice. Looks easy enough to implement
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skippy anyone here using Hugo?
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loqi.me edited /IoT (+43) "tantek added "https://www.facebook.com/internetofshit/" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /IoT (+37) "tantek added "https://twitter.com/internetofshit" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /open_collective (+111) "/* See Also */ new section" (view diff)
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[keithjgrant] @skippy: I use Hugo for keithjgrant.com
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[kevinmarks] I borrowed your shindig theme for a presentation today, Keith.
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[kevinmarks] Though I made a white background variant
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[keithjgrant] ?
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skippy [keithjgrant]: curious how you handle incoming webmentions? or pulling Twiiter comments / likes? are you using brid.gy ?
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tantek.com edited /SMS (+532) "Twitter, and move criticism citation to the top since it is so critical" (view diff)
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skippy [keithjgrant]: also curious how you set up notes and posts in Hugo. I only have "posts" and haven't fully wrapped my brain around content types with Hugo yet.
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tantek.com edited /SMS (+246) "/* Twitter */ Possible way to correct prompt text" (view diff)
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[keithjgrant] For MicroPub, I use voxpelli’s micropub-to-github, hosted in a heroku instance
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[keithjgrant] https://github.com/voxpelli/webpage-micropub-to-github
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Loqi [voxpelli] webpage-micropub-to-github: Self-hosteable Micropub endpoint that publishes to Jekyll by committing to GitHub
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[keithjgrant] I use bridgy for tweet integration (and my Omnibear extension)
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tantek hey silo-SMS apologists: screenshot for you: https://indieweb.org/SMS#Twitter
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tantek.com edited /SMS (-3) "/* Twitter */" (view diff)
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[keithjgrant] For posts/notes/likes/replies, I did something with the post categories, I think, but I'd have to dig into the code to recall exactly how I set that up
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aaronpk SMS 2fa ? ... SMS account recovery ?
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tantek.com edited /SMS (+0) "move tweet about 1-factor SMS compromise happening to criticism" (view diff)
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skippy thanks [keithjgrant]
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tantek aaronpk: prompting user to sign-up for SMS 2fa AND SMS account recovery ?
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aaronpk srsly
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tantek see I was not making this up
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tantek Am I the only around here that cares about silos defaulting to enabling SMS password reset when users add their phone number?
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[grantcodes] Hey keithjgrant I see you're working on omnibear, do you still need to fix that generated `eval` issue? I have an updated webpack setup I can send a pull request for but I don't know if it actually fixes the issue
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tantek Loqi what no "Am I the only one" meme?
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[keithjgrant] grantcodes yeah, if you've got a PR for that, that would be great
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[grantcodes] ok will send in a minute
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skippy tantek: i certainly care. SMS 2FA is weak. I'd rather have OTP.
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[keithjgrant] Oh, @skippy there's one more piece to my Hugo setup. micropub-to-github commits the source file for the new post, but the site still needs to be rebuilt...
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skippy i havent given Twitter my phone number. I don't plan to do so.
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[keithjgrant] I use forestry.io to do that, but it's slow. Like 60 seconds. I want to take a look at using netlify instead
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skippy [keithjgrant]: yeah, a build pipeline seemed obvious from the github usage. I dont use GitHub to store my posts, but have a (similar) rebuild process for https://skippy.is/
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Loqi [skippy] skippy is an ally Do you know what I want for my kids? Happiness.
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tantek awww
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tantek skippy++
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Loqi skippy has 1 karma in this channel (3 overall)
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skippy i'm thinking about playing with AWS Lambda for some of the future wiring; but that's a differnet kind of silo, with a whole new set of lock-in...
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skippy thanks tantek !
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tantek !tell [chrisaldrich] this point of stress is a good reason to *not* try to make your blog look "perfect", but rather, be ok with "pretty good" and iterate. https://twitter.com/ChrisAldrich/status/913150710241480705 if you ever make it look "too good" that's a barrier to incremental change/shift over time also
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@ChrisAldrich Or improve it incrementally... #indieweb QT [@davatron5000] My platform supports 28,000+ characters. It’s called blogs. And it fills you with shame and you want to redesign it every 6 months.?s=09 (twitter.com/_/status/913150710241480705)
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tantek um what's that ?s=09 ?!?
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tantek aaronpk ^^^ something odd from the new Twitter API? or 280 chars?
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[keithjgrant] I've seen that when sharing from the Twitter Android app
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[keithjgrant] (it breaks embedded tweet scripts on my site ?)
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snarfed looks like the regexp that matches a trailing quote tweet URL is excluding query params, but should include them
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aaronpk uhh
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aaronpk whoa new twitter api docs
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aaronpk ugh they got rid of their API console
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aaronpk https://dev.twitter.com/rest/tools/console -> redirects to https://developer.twitter.com/en/docs
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snarfed yeah :(:(:( https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/2017-09-26#t1506466475397000
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Loqi [snarfed] nice, old https://dev.twitter.com/ redirects to new https://developer.twitter.com/ , but breaks old links to API docs
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aaronpk oh dear all the API doc links are broken too?
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snarfed old ones yes
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aaronpk srsly people
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aaronpk it's not that hard
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Loqi aww, cheer up
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aaronpk especially when your old site is on a different subdomain!
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tantek indeed
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aaronpk so what does the ?s=09 on the tweet permalink mean?
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[keithjgrant] Sharing from the Twitter app adds that. Probably for metrics
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tantek well that's annoying
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tantek hey aaronpk, dev.twtr.io ? :D
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aaronpk heh
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tantek if I'm going to fix my links (now broken) to dev.twitter.com, I'd rather direct them to a domain that I trust to not break
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tantek (again)
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[cleverdevil] To be fair, they have all of those extra characters for the URLs now!
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[cleverdevil] </snark>
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tantek might need just a static JSON table in github with oldpath -> newpath
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aaronpk that'd be doable
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tantek and we can add to it collectively as we fix it
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aaronpk i actually prefer just oldurl<tab>newurl
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tantek up to you, you'd be writing the consuming / searching code
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aaronpk i have a file like that for my website already
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tantek hah
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aaronpk cause i've had to keep track of URLs of 4 past site iterations :)
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tantek and then once we've gotten all the urls we know of, we can hand it to Twitter as a gift
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aaronpk oh hey it's already on github too https://github.com/aaronpk/twtr.io
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Loqi [aaronpk] twtr.io: Algorithmic Twitter URL shortener
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loqi.me edited /YouTube (+137) "tantek added "Criticism: YouTube blocks Amazon Echo from playing videos: https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/26/16371292/google-youtube-amazon-echo-show" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /silos_gonna_silo (+34) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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GWG Evening
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tantek hey folks if you're in the bay area or might be the week of 11/6-10, check out the W3C Developer Meetup https://www.eventbrite.com/e/w3c-developer-meetup-in-san-francisco-tickets-37268895269
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GWG I still would like an excuse to return to the Bay Area
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tantek.com edited /Planning (+356) "W3C Developer Meetup in San Francisco" (view diff)
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tantek GWG, I added the info to the /Planning page for SF in case that makes a difference
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GWG I need to say how many more days I need to burn in 2017