#dev 2017-11-11

2017-11-11 UTC
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www.boffosocko.com created /holiday_theme (+778) "stub; definition; sketch of examples" (view diff)
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[kevinmarks] Are people good about the summary/content distinction?
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[kevinmarks] Because that was the real bugger with rss, and with the heuristic html parsing for Technorati
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aaronpk it's more than just summary vs content
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aaronpk for example most people don't include the links to syndicated copies of posts in the list view, but they do on permalinks (tantek is an example off the top of my head)
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www.boffosocko.com uploaded /File:Github-Halloween.png "One of the visual modifications made by GitHub to celebrate Halloween 2017 https://indieweb.org/File:Github-Halloween.png"
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www.boffosocko.com edited /holiday_theme (+765) "stub; definition; sketch of examples" (view diff)
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www.boffosocko.com uploaded /File:christmas_sweater.PNG "Ugly Sweater holiday border https://indieweb.org/File:christmas sweater.PNG"
jjuran, snarfed, KartikPrabhu, tantek, eli_oat, snarfed1, renem and [miklb] joined the channel
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loqi.me edited /IPFS (+159) "tantek added "2017-11-08 "[https://twitter.com/azaroth42/status/928350020297879552 IPFS: identity survives only as long as someone cares, not for ever = inevitable loss]"" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /h-card (+307) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ +me, subheadings" (view diff)
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tantek https://twitter.com/mattnortham/status/928596230321655808
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@mattnortham Casual throwaway line from @notwaldorf but it stuck - “not everything we (the internets people) make has to be used by everyone” ?? #ffconf (twitter.com/_/status/928596230321655808)
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tantek https://twitter.com/mattnortham/status/926352342756274176
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@mattnortham this is ??, but also a sad reminder that the internet can be ephemeral, despite adages suggesting the opposite. own your masters! https://twitter.com/kissane/status/926246324990828544 (twitter.com/_/status/926352342756274176)
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tantek.com edited /next-hwc (+0) "next" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (+0) "next" (view diff)
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@strugee2 Getting very, very close to shipping outbound Webmention on my personal blog (which is a static site). And all… https://pump.strugee.net/alex/note/gsi1NUXTRXK-FtozXJG2RA (twitter.com/_/status/929267491188097025)
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@johnjohnston a post (Henrik Carlsson's Blog) It seems like my site has lost the ability to receive webmentions since I moved i… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/929292916274679808 (twitter.com/_/status/929292916274679808)
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Zegnat aaronpk, snarfed: I recall having seen discussions like this several times. Most recently as part of salmentions. I think some people were also talking about always fetching the full comment origin page and parsing that instead of relying on the comment display on a third-party website.
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Zegnat The general consensus always seemed to be that the only place to parse a mf2 object on is on its permalink. But that obviously makes any reader implementation more involved as just parsing an h-feed might not do.
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@EchoChamberUncu a post (Henrik Carlsson’s Blog)It seems like my site has lost the ability to receive webmentions since… | john https://educationechochamberuncut.wordpress.com/2017/11/11/a-post-henrik-carlssons-blogit-seems-like-my-site-has-lost-the-ability-to-receive-webmentions-since-john/ (twitter.com/_/status/929302101636902914)
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Zegnat There is also the problem when people don’t add a u-url to their h-feed. No way to actually know if an h-feed you find in the current HTML is the main object at that page’s URL. What if there are multiple h-feeds, like on tantek’s page?
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Zegnat Goes to show that h-feed has been around for a while, but still had a lot of things that need to be ironed out
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vanderven.se martijn edited /GDPR (+461) "/* Data Portability */ GDPR will allow requesting posts on silos." (view diff)
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ancarda Hi everyone, I'm working on a WebMention implementation for my site. It seems like it's a good idea to save all mentions that have been received into a database. Are there any good limits on the length of source, target, and the overall POST body? I'm unsure how big to make the VARCHAR columns
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Zegnat aaronpk did you decide on anything for URL length? I see you were thinking about it too https://indiechat.search.cweiske.de/?q=url+length but for some reason the links to the actual chatlogs fail for me :(
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aaronpk https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/2017-11-03/1509673860367000
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Loqi [aaronpk] tl;dr the spec doesn't define a max length. still generally staying under 2000 is recommended to be compatible across all browsers
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ancarda Ok, I can set the limit to 2k. Thank you
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aaronpk to be clear, that was from the other perspective of when you're *making* URLs, how long should they be
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aaronpk so you could technically encounter URLs longer than 2k in the wild since most browsers do support longer URLs, however it is very unlikely
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ascraeus.org edited /GDPR (+1066) (view diff)
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Zegnat Awesome additions dgold!
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Zegnat dgold++
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Loqi dgold has 6 karma in this channel (24 overall)
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dgold yeah, i start writing legal stuff and I drop back into law talking guy mode. sorry if the language is a bit dry.
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Zegnat As a start, having any of the GDPR information that applies to IndieWeb thoughts on the wiki is awesome. No matter how serious the tone :)
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dgold has anyone been playing with mastodon.social?
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dgold their API documentation is awful.
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Zegnat People have played with Mastodon in general, I think. And there is http://fed.brid.gy/ to try and communicate between IndieWeb websites and social stuff like Mastodon
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dgold e.g. for posting replies, there is an optional feed for statuses 'in_reply_to_id': Local id of the status you want to reply to
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dgold optional _field_
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dgold what does 'local id of the status' mean? which of the seven or eight status_id fields in a mastodon status is that referring to?
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aaronpk is making progress on feed parsing
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schmarty aaronpk++ feed parsing progress is exciting
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Loqi aaronpk has 85 karma in this channel (1466 overall)
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aaronpk snarfed++ for the tips
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Loqi snarfed has 19 karma in this channel (316 overall)
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aaronpk didn't end up translating it exactly, but it helped me think about this differently
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aaronpk I decided to skip the step of /authorship that involves making another GET request entirely, since that would potentially mean I'd be making a GET request for each item in the feed
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schmarty Ooh, in favor of what? A per-feed authorship?
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aaronpk well in finding the author for each h-entry, it limits to what it can find on the page
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aaronpk so if there's a top-level h-card like tantek, then that h-card becomes the author for each entry. but it won't go and fetch data from another URL if it can't find anything otherwise
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aaronpk normally XRay does actually go fetch the author URL like /authorship says
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[kevinmarks] That makes sense, and matches the Atom pattern.
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[kevinmarks] (in atom feed level author is overridden by post level)
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@samim The W3C re-invents two-way hyperlinks https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/ and "forgets" to even name the concepts inventor… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/929421788894908416 (twitter.com/_/status/929421788894908416)
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aaronpk ...
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aaronpk "Wired magazine published an article called "The Curse of Xanadu", calling Project Xanadu "the longest-running vaporware story in the history of the computer industry".[2] The first attempt at implementation began in 1960, but it was not until 1998 that an incomplete implementation was released. A version described as "a working deliverable", OpenXanadu, was made available in 2014."
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aaronpk closes that rabbit hole
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dgold aaronpk: what are you using in quill to pull the tweets/mastodon posts when doing a reply-to?
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aaronpk XRay
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dgold ok
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[kevinmarks] http://epeus.blogspot.co.uk/2004/02/technorati-xanadu-and-other-dreams.html
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aaronpk which coincidentally i'm working on right now https://github.com/aaronpk/XRay
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Loqi [aaronpk] XRay: X-Ray returns structured data from any URL
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dgold oh, excellent!
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aaronpk you can use it as a library or run it on a server and use it as an API. the one I run is on google app engine
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[kevinmarks] Ted Nelson is fun to talk to.
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Zegnat Wait, where in that original ideas list on Wikipedia does it mention that pages need to tell other pages when they link to them? Because that’s what Webmentions are :/
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aaronpk yeah I don't think I wanna get involved in that discussion
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[kevinmarks] https://www.intertwingly.net/wiki/pie/MotivationDiscussion
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[kevinmarks] Previous version of that discussion. Sample quote Clay Shirky: "If you thought that all that was wrong with RSS 1.0 is that RDF didn't make it confusing enough, attach the twin boat-anchors of OWL and the Semantic Web to [Atom] and see what happens."
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aaronpk I still don't know how to clean up the `name` property of things like this http://known.kevinmarks.com/2017/untitled-51
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Loqi [Kevin Marks] Kevin Marks ... http://known.kevinmarks.com/file/549bb9b4ad20d6f94372a159bf7d0c96/thumb.jpg
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aaronpk I can't remember if this is an outstanding mf2 parser issue or not
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snarfed aaronpk: i was thinking about your partial feed content problem. you might consider just skipping it in v1, instead of always fetching permalinks. seems reasonable for a first pass MVP, esp if it's easy to click through. you can always add full fetching later.
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aaronpk good point
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aaronpk at the very least I decided to not make fetching the original post part of XRay, so I was able to hammer that part out this morning
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snarfed nice
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aaronpk Now it parses microformats Atom, RSS and JSONFeed and converts everything to the XRay format
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snarfed it's php granary!
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[kevinmarks] That had no name in instagram, so brid.gy could have set the name to "" in micropub
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[kevinmarks] http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing-issues#whitespace_collapsing_revisited
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Loqi microformats2-parsing-issues
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[kevinmarks] So yes, it's hard, and maybe we should revisit implied name again.
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aaronpk snarfed: hah yeah except only one direction
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aaronpk [kevinmarks]: the other way weve done that is to set p-name and e-content on the same element and then dedupe when consuming
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Zegnat Yeah, that is still the recommended mark-up for notes, I think. Personally I am not a fan of forcing every object to have a name. We might want to take that to #microformats though
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aaronpk next up I think I'm gonna make an API call to find any feeds at a URL
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aaronpk ? https://media.aaronpk.com/Screen-Shot-2017-11-11-12-54-59-NHma7jpiof.jpg
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Zegnat What happens on tantek.com? He has 2 h-feeds if I remember correctly?
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aaronpk I think it only uses the first
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aaronpk https://xray.p3k.io/parse?expect=feed&url=http%3A%2F%2Ftantek.com%2F
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Zegnat At least it grabs the one for his blog items then, hehe
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aaronpk although you can target the second one with a fragment URL! https://xray.p3k.io/parse?expect=feed&url=http%3A%2F%2Ftantek.com%2F%23recent-articles
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Zegnat Oh, that’s pretty cool!
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Zegnat We debated that at IWC Berlin: using fragment URLs as permalinks for posts in a feed. I recommended against it as I didn’t know any parsers that would understand it. Guess XRay does :D
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aaronpk yeah I still woudln't recommend it tho :)
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aaronpk well that was a lot of updates to XRay, time to publish a release
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Zegnat Yeah, that was what I said too. I could see me doing it to break stuff, but I wouldn’t recommend anyone else to do it ?
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aaronpk ? https://github.com/aaronpk/XRay/releases/tag/v1.4.0
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[kevinmarks] Most parsers should pass through fragments in a url, but extracting mf2 from just one element is less common
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[kevinmarks] This is interesting https://medium.com/@terrycrowley/real-time-editing-is-kind-of-hard-785622043b7b
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