GWGsnarfed: I wish you good luck. I am glad to see contributions to Semantic Linkbacks. As you recall, I did a round in the summer and will likely go through again.
GWG[miklb]: I think pfefferle left it as if it ever got to be less hacky, he'd withdraw his concerns. I think we keep evolving it and it may get there.
seblog.nlcreated /Cineville (+916) "Created page with "{{stub}} '''<dfn>[https://cineville.nl Cineville]</dfn>''' is a Dutch network of art house cinema's, a card with a monthly subscription to see unlimited movies in those cinema's..."" (view diff)
ZegnatThe in-reply-to goes for the specific post you are replying to. You could be replying to both posts, but if you are writing your reply purely because of 1 post then that 1 post should get the in-reply-to. Whether that 1 post happens to be a reply itself doesn’t affect anything.
LoqiSalmentions are a protocol extension to Webmention to propagate comments and other interactions upstream by sending a webmention from a response to the original post when the response itself receives a response (comment, like, etc.) https://indieweb.org/salmention
ZegnatApps that are supposed to be hosted whole scale should be fine on 7.x, people interested in hosting those specific apps should look at hosting that works for them
snarfedsebsel: "self-hosted all the way down" is explicitly not an indieweb design goal. all of our sites rely on third party services at some point, whether it's hosting, datacenters, backbone network providers, etc
snarfedwe each strive for *some* degree of portability, usually more than the silos, but we obviously don't go all the way and write our own web servers, OSes, etc all from scratch. where we each draw the line is a personal choice, right?
ZegnatI think it is less about hosting everything yourself and more about portability. If we are seeing a portability issue amongst IndieWeb services (in this case webmention endpoint providers) that is something to talk about :)
snarfedportability indeed. arguably the only truly required thing to be indieweb is a domain. how far to go beyond that is personal choice. (ie even tumblr, blogger, and wordpress.com are viable indieweb hosts.)
tantekZegnat, perhaps you can find some indieweb examples / experiences of portability and add them there? e.g. people switching from static/Jekyll to/from WordPress to/from Known?
ZegnatI am not sure it is a focus per se. But as we like to talk about whether social media silos support proper exports, we shouldn’t forget taking a look at our own silos like the webmention endpoint providers. I was talking specifically about portability in that sense, not really about switching CMS.
tantekinteresting. assuming you can iterate all the webmentions ever received by a service on your behalf, you can 1) switch your webmention endpoint, 2) iterate and literally resend all webmentions
aaronpkyep and that also doesn't require that either webmention service support importing, only relies on being able to list all received webmentions, which presumably it has to be able to do to be a useful webmention service
sebselthe only problem is that some pages will 404 (or similar) after a while, in which case the old endpoint might have a cached version, but the new one doesn't.
ZegnatTheoretically, if the page has gone unavailable, the original sender should have sent an update webmention and you would have taken it out of your cache in the first place, right?
tantekZegnat, it's only a reasonable discussion if there is new information beyond what is already in the spec / existing discussion. Otherwise rather than "leave it", it's better to cite the current answer as a starting point: https://indieweb.org/deleted#404_Discussion
ZegnatI meant that the entire discussion doesn’t apply to me in the first place tantek, so leaving it to others feels 100% like the right thing for me to do
Zegnatsknebel, yeah, I remember we discussed that during IWC. They also will not respect future robots.txt anymore. So if someone takes over the site and puts a disallow everything on there the old site is still visible in the archives, I think someone said.
aaronpkI mean you *can* store the whole source post in some format, HTML, mf2 json, jf2, whatever, but then re-sending those webmentions becomes a harder problem.
Zegnathttps://dissolve.github.io/jf2/#conformance - starts with talking about documents and has a “non-exhaustive list of examples of documents”. Which is why the term was in the front of my mind tantek
ZegnatYou can encode anything in jf2, as long as you add a custom prefix to the property names to make clear it isn’t an actual microformat you are encoding. But at that point you are basically just using a default JSON struct. So I don’t see the point of encoding webmentions in jf2.
sknebeldgold: yes, I think huginn should be able to follow your feed and run something for each new post. (handling updates might be trickier, depending on how they appear in your feed - that'd be easier if you did it integrated with your build step)
tantekit's not a problem now/yet, but as webmention grows in popularity, there will be dt-published bugs (abuses?) that may be "checked" via such "webmention received" time
ZegnatI am not sure why my webmention endpoint will ever care about publishing datetime. But I am definitely going to consider storing webmention receiving time in my next endpoint implementation
aaronpkZegnat: if you ever plan on re-sending old webmentions like we're talking about for importing old ones, the published date would be relevant so that your new webmentions don't all look new
ZegnatThere is nothing in the webmention spec about parsing microformats. That’s not something my endpoint does either. So whatever is in dt-published doesn’t matter to me, tantek
ZegnatMy endpoint cares about mentions, and the mention being valid. Not about the content of the documents. Which is why updates only make sense to me as far as “should I redo the notification?” And in my flow, I am not sure how much value timestamps have at all.
ZegnatI can totally see how adding some other checks before that (e.g. is there an h-card parent object to use) is useful, but I don’t think that’s “so high up in the list”
ZegnatMini h-cards are a thing. E.g. all /person-tags on a page are one. Those might resolve in some circumstances as “h-card on the current page with a matching url”.
aaronpkZegnat: right now if you use superfeedr's subscription service to subscribe to your home page it will already send websub notifications when your weight is updated
ZegnatAlso note that with mini h-cards, e.g. because they show up inside a post, the display name might not be the name chosen by the person the u-url points too. So you could theoretically end up with a nickname chosen by someone else in your data.
ZegnatYeah, that’s the problem with “first h-card” IMHO. I have a post with <a href="http://isabelforester.com" class="h-card">Isi</a>. If that post is ever displayed higher up the feed from anything with u-author isabelforester.com (be it a repost, a comment, whatever) the algo will end with “Isi” as the author name. While in reality that is just how I
ZegnatAny mini h-cards (e.g. person-tags) on the same page (could be elsewhere in a feed) could be treated as the author’s h-card as long as they are first in source order. These h-cards may be filled with nicknames chosen by someone else. Of course if we codify the limitation of same domain that problem is basically gone.
ZegnatAnd I personally think it should work on any h-entry. Whether it is nested under a different h-entry (as comment or as anything else) shouldn’t matter IMHO.
ZegnatAs [kevinmarks] said, it is not a very big problem, and I think it is an issue that is acceptable for a fallback value. Just not for the main value.
ZegnatYes, using 7.4 temporary if you want to make 7.1–7.3 async also seems fine to me. You are basically using it as a fallback then as well (e.g. if the async takes too long or fails).
ZegnatUsing 7.4 if hostnames of the object’s u-url and the h-card’s u-url match also seems fine to me, that way you have insurance that the author influences their own h-card on the page
Zegnathttps://indieweb.org/authorship#Algorithm_Design_Notes - he, the exact photo usecase gets mentioned in the design notes as the reason why the HTTP request comes before looking for a small one. So whoever wrote that (tantek?) apparently thought the same thing as I did
tantekZegnat, a lot of the authorship algorithm came out of real world examples and the last time we had a flurry of indieweb reader development around here, probably around Monocle and/or Woodwind
sknebelI'm also not sure I want my browser to talk WebRTC to all my rss feed subscriptions, revealing my online times, IP address, ... in the process, so I wouldn't want that in the hubs
vanderven.se martijnedited /authorship (+1673) "/* Other theoretical */ Documenting some theoretical issues with 7.4, that may come to light if 7.4 is moved up in the algo step order. Links to chatlog. Documented here after prompt by tantek." (view diff)
Loqi[Matthias Pfefferle] Description
This plugin is a simple way to let people know in real-time when your blog is updated. PubSubHubbub is widely adopted and is used by Google Reader, Google Alerts and many other services. WebSub provides a common mechanism for communic...
sknebelaaronpk: btw, since someone asked in Berlin when Websub was mentioned, did you look at any of the APIs hosted readers offer for alternative clients while coming up with it?
ZegnatThe accessible footnotes thing seems nice for mobility impaired. You do not need pinpoint precision for clicking as the entire word box around the small footnote marker is click-able.
ZegnatKartikPrabhu, I can’t have footnotes next to links, that’s a limitation of the system. The superscript number is added by CSS so the actual footnote link is always a piece of text
Zegnatsknebel, yeah, current CSS is specifically made so it looks like only the superscript number is interactable. I am now considering changing that for people with mobility impairments. Was a good point by dgold.
sknebelon a pen device, I might spend unnecessary time aiming on a small target I can hit - but a hover style would work for many of those (since most pen devices track while hovering as well)
ZegnatOh, sknebel, before I forget: http://www.metadataworkinggroup.com/specs/ (that WG is Adobe, Apple, Canon, Microsoft, Nokia, and Sony) is the spec that has an XMP extension for tagging people’s faces with their names within photo metadata :)
ZegnatWith that I am off for bed. I will consider trying to hook the number into the link to make the area more clear for footnote links. Thanks for the ideas all!
sknebelimage_metadata << http://www.metadataworkinggroup.com/specs/ (that WG is Adobe, Apple, Canon, Microsoft, Nokia, and Sony) is the spec that has an XMP extension for tagging people’s faces with their names within photo metadata
Loqiok, I added "http://www.metadataworkinggroup.com/specs/ (that WG is Adobe, Apple, Canon, Microsoft, Nokia, and Sony) is the spec that has an XMP extension for tagging people’s faces with their names within photo metadata" to the "See Also" section of /image_metadata
loqi.meedited /image_metadata (+212) "sknebel added "http://www.metadataworkinggroup.com/specs/ (that WG is Adobe, Apple, Canon, Microsoft, Nokia, and Sony) is the spec that has an XMP extension for tagging people’s faces with their names within photo metadata" to "See Also"" (view diff)
Loqisnarfed: tantek left you a message 1 hour, 46 minutes ago: does your indiestats project show somewhere # of total comments received/posted, and similarly for likes, reposts, RSVPs?
snarfed!tell tantek yes! indie map does count responses by type, both overall and per site. http://www.indiemap.org/docs.html#stats . see the "mf2 class frequency" and "mf2 class frequency by site" graphs
snarfed!tell kevinmarks,zegnat btw http://www.indiemap.org/ is a good source for the kinds of stats you all were idly guessing about while debating authorship and representative h-card. easy to data mine w/SQL. happy to help!
snarfed is there any consensus on whether https://github.com/aaronpk/emoji-detector-php or https://github.com/dissolve/single-emoji-recognizer is better?
@StuRobson @rachelnabors @jaffathecake @rachsmithtweets Oh, for sure. When I have a chance I’m hoping to implement webmentions… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/929625670887661568 (twitter.com/_/status/929625670887661568)
@kevinmarks @rachsmithtweets I use http://webmention.herokuapp.com with brid.gy on my static sites - that means that they show… http://known.kevinmarks.com/2017/i-use-webmentionherokuappcom-with-bridgy-on-my-static-sites (twitter.com/_/status/929639825212243968)
jkphl.is uploaded /File:iwcber-2017-group.gif "IndieWebCamp Berlin 2017 group photo (animated) https://indieweb.org/File:iwcber-2017-group.gif"
seblog.nl created /Cineville (+916) "Created page with "
@keithjgrant @rachsmithtweets I added webmention support to my blog and I love it. And it's a W3C Recomendation spec! (twitter.com/_/status/929681954370400256)
[keithjgrant] If I reply to a reply, should my in-reply-to lost both urls?
Loqi Salmentions are a protocol extension to Webmention to propagate comments and other interactions upstream by sending a webmention from a response to the original post when the response itself receives a response (comment, like, etc.) https://indieweb.org/salmention
@fsteeg Micropub, IndieAuth, and posting to my own site with http://Micro.blog: http://fsteeg.com/notes/micropub-indieauth-and-posting-to-my-own-site-with-microblog (twitter.com/_/status/929716996366917633)
loqi.me edited /Jekyll (+127) "aaronpk added "[https://www.aaron-gustafson.com/notebook/enabling-webmentions-in-jekyll/ Enabling Webmentions in Jekyll] by Aaron Gustafson" to "See Also"" (view diff)
[kevinmarks] dgold I'd have to check, but I think both provide a script to fetch webmentions and display them
tantek portability is /data-portability
Zegnat I am not sure it is a focus per se. But as we like to talk about whether social media silos support proper exports, we shouldn’t forget taking a look at our own silos like the webmention endpoint providers. I was talking specifically about portability in that sense, not really about switching CMS.
aaronpk hm I should file an issue to get them to support the payload that my GPS tracker app sends https://github.com/huginn/huginn/wiki/Agent-Types-&-Descriptions#user-location-agent
@sull @ummjackson good question. been a while since I followed this. i’ve used indie webmention in past too. https://indieweb.org/reply (twitter.com/_/status/929782848852234240)
@aaronpk @ummjackson @sull @ummjackson We've been working on exactly that! https://indieweb.org/Webmention (twitter.com/_/status/929786260113076224)
KartikPrabhu for SVG users http://www.otsukare.info/2017/11/02/fatwigoo
dgold Zegnat: see here, para5: https://ascraeus.org/tracks-in-the-dust/
gRegorLove what is image metadata?
@ubiquitic Reading about #webmentions… the 2d “famous” post I stumble across is an ode to spam: https://adactio.com/journal/6469 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DOeD-vbVwAEAjMu.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/929856968189140992)