sknebel(I posted a post with an embedded video recently, but that was only a link-preview so to speak and not a video I am publishing, so not a /video post
ZegnatE.g. I consume a lot of video game content. If I want to post a particular play through that happened on Twitch, those can easily be several hour long videos, that I have no intention of hosting myself. Especially when you want to (or must) offer several encodings.
ZegnatBut many of these external platforms do not have simple file links I can point people (or mf2 parsers) to. Last I checked Twitch’s video player is actually backed by a playlist of short clips. They do that so loading times are kept to a minimum when you jump around in a 12 hour live stream.
sknebelso are you creating the external video you want to embed, or are you linking to something somebody else posted? the latter IMHO wouldn't be marked up as a video post, but a like/repost/...
ZegnatI don’t think anyone is treating PESOS as a repost right now? More like syndication: it went out to platform X, but I am the author there and I am also putting it out on my own site.
ZegnatTo stick with the video case: an example would be me going live on Twitch and then making a video post on my site that has the Twitch embed iframe of the live stream.
ZegnatAfter the stream, I would change the iframe embed to no longer point to the live stream URL, but point to the specific archived-stream-footage on Twitch. On my site the URL never had to change and people can still see what was done.
sknebelin a reader, one might automatically generate embeds for linked hosted videos for likes/reposts/... instead of relying on the posting site to do something like that
ZegnatIt doesn’t feel like a repost, and I would like it to be a /video post. But everything I am reading assumes u-video with a link to the video file.
ZegnatAnd even if it is a repost, the problem extends to the video silos as they have no way to add mf2 to their video pages. Because they too do not have a link to a single video file.
LoqiIt looks like we don't have a page for "embedded" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "embedded is ____", a sentence describing the term)
sknebeladditional question maybe: can you construct it in a way that a client can discover and show the link to the stream page instead, when it doesn't want to/can't do embedding
ancardaIf I want to write a blog post where I mention an IndieWeb user, how should I markup their name? e.g. `<a class="p-name" lang="nl" href="https://vanderven.se/martijn/"><span class="p-given-name">Martijn</span> <span class="p-family-name">van der Ven</span></a>`? This would be inside an h-entry/h-feed. I don't want it confused with my h-card (that won't happen, right?)
LoqiIt looks like we don't have a page for "hreflang" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "hreflang is ____", a sentence describing the term)
ZegnatI use it for CSS flags. I don’t know if anything consumes it. I feel like software like screenreaders should announce it so you know if it is interesting to click through at all.
Zegnataaronpk, question: for XRay as a public instance instead of library (as xray.p3k.io) where would one store the API credentials? In the config file?
sknebelaaronpk: do you have some shared code for checking the url and attaching the right api keys, are you using xray internally as an API all the time or how do you handle that?
aaronpkmy site uses XRay to fetch reply contexts tho. I have a regex that checks whether a URL matches a tweet permalink and then it includes the twitter API keys when talking to XRay
ZegnatIf you go to iframely’s “Origin Data” tab you can see how much YouTube cares about communicating the author. It is literally only within the oEmbed object (which takes an extra HTTP request to get)
ZegnatHmmm, I like how YouTube (at least according to iframely) handles the OpenGraph data. For the video URL they link to the embedable URL and specify og:video:type as text/html, per http://ogp.me/#structured
ancardaCan anyone help me debug an Nginx issue? My website is built with Slim, so all requests need to go to index.php, if they don't exist on disk. For instance `/auth/` should load because `/auth/index.php` exists
ancardaI have `try_files $uri /index.php$is_args$args;` in a `location /` block. This will get requests to go through Slim as if the file doesn't exist, it calls index.php instead
ZegnatAh, that looks pretty good aaronpk. XRay is supposed to output jf2 right? So I could make it output the embed URL in video and put an HTML mime type with it?
ZegnatThe only problem I see with the mf2 path is that you either start to dangerously overload u-* parsing (if u-* on element W, also include attributes X, Y, and Z in an object) or will require a new prefix (f-* for file? m-* for media? ...)
ben_thatmustbemeas to where it came from, thats partly to bridge with jsonfeeds, since they do use multiple formats like that. an adequate translation should get at least one of those though
[kevinmarks]Also, showing flags with hreflang is a bit dubious, as countries and languages are different things. Yes, de, fr and jp are collisions in the codes that seem to work, but they're anomalies
ZegnatI was more picky, e.g. using UK flag for en-GB. Also since I was napping them to flags manually the language code did not have to be the same as the country code.
sknebelokay, what's the place to collect them? (finding examples of people posting yt embeds isn't going to be difficult, but lets go through the motions)
sknebeldon't see why my viewing UI (=reader) should have a difference between posts that link an mp4 file and posts that link an html file playing the video
tanteksknebel: go look at how /jam evolved. it was just notes for a while, then the example of /ThisIsMyJam and their different UI inspired evolving it
tantekand besides, one kinda obvious answer is, a reader with direct access to mp4 files can play them directly, back to back, without you needing to interact with a bunch of random different HTML UIs from other sites
tanteklike: without documenting examples of what you're talking about, you can't really reason what does or does not exist about them to come to any conclusions
LoqiAn autoembed is an embedding of media, typically of an image or video, that was automatically added from a URL to that media, to provide immediate viewing and or direct interaction with that media https://indieweb.org/autoembed
tantekthat's the difference between supporting /video post vs just linking to random things including YouTube links which may themselves have videos to play
sknebelyes, and since you've declared that this difference apparently overrides the use case for making them similar to handle for readers I don't see much point in continuing this right now (also, busy. gotta pack)
tantekno one has built something that will go grab 3rd party HTML player links and then play them sequentially like a podcast app plays podcasts sequentially from 3rd party sites
[eddie]As much as I love to usually debate and disagree with tantek 😉 as far as microformats are concerned, I agree. I haven't come across any different behavior for YouTube video links. In my site I ultimately just detect the youtube URL and the "link preview" is adding the embed code with the given detected YouTube url.
ZegnatI get the link preview, auto-embedding, etc. But if it is a PESOS post, I would like for it to be identified as a video post, as that is the main thing about the post. That was what I was struggling with.
ZegnatFor my YouTube support in XRay I will just follow jf2, which does support content type, and follow the OpenGraph example of linking to the embeddable HTML.
ZegnatI kinda like what YouTube is going with OpenGraph og:video:url in combination with og:video:type, and I do not mind mapping those to jf2’s structure.
ZegnatA long blog post that just happens to embed a video, I might still want to read (just not let the video load). But posts (like those of people I follow on YouTube) where video is the main content I need to sort out and hold until I get WiFi.
ZegnatNote also that my consuming use-case is actually coming before publications use-case. E.g. if I teach XRay to create the jf2 feed for YouTube channels and playlists, I could subscribe to those (with monocle/together/whatever) or simply convert to JSON Feed to subscribe with Reeder. This means the jf2 option for video properties is actually more imp
ZegnatI have some videos that I would like to post to my blog and backdate, but I am not producing new online video content until March–April when we are expecting to have internet at home again. So posting is several months out still.
ZegnatYou aren’t serving them from your own hosting though. How is that different from me serving video straight from the silo because I don’t want to host it myself?
LoqiSingle points of failure (SPOFs) are aspects or parts of a system which, when they fail, cause crucial parts of (or the entire) system to fail https://indieweb.org/spof
ZegnatThe real problem isn’t so much getting it on several video hosting platforms. It is that almost no video hosting platform offer direct video-file links.
ZegnatThe real problem is that this is really long form video content. That’s also the reason why e.g. Twitch doesn’t have a single video file available. To make it quick to seek etc Twitch actually slices video into many small fragment files and streams it to their player as a playlist.
tantekran into a similar question/problem with hosting of large "not quite fully owned" audio files, friends were asking me where they should move their Soundcloud posts to
ZegnatI have the right to publish it, and would love publishing it on my site. But when I looked into Internet Archive for that before they seemed to be saying that I needed to atleast be something like Share Alike. But I don’t want to give *everyone* publishing rights.
ZegnatI am happy to have specialised video silos handle it. It is just that it often means I do not have a specific video file to link to in my u-video. Which then means PTD doesn’t think of my post as a video post. Except the post has no content other than the video... Which loops me back to how I like what YouTube is doing with OpenGraph and defining t
ZegnatI have a copy locally, a copy on YouTube, and a copy on Twitch. That doesn’t sound a whole lot different from your photo posts? Except that you maybe trust the Internet Archive more to stay afloat than I trust Twitch :P
ZegnatYes. And I can automatically have a local copy, a Twitch copy, and a YouTube copy, with minimal manual labour already. Twitch I think even has a button to mirror to YouTube, so I don’t even need to think about that copy.
ZegnatBut I do have a copy. I am just not serving that copy on my site. Much like you are doing, where you are not serving the local photo copy but are serving the photo as hosted by a silo?
ZegnatI don’t think there is any reliability difference between your <img src="{photo-path-on-silo}"> and my <iframe src="{video-path-on-silo">, is what I am saying. Not obvious to me at all.
LoqiIt looks like we don't have a page for "youtube-dl " yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "youtube-dl is ____", a sentence describing the term)
ancardayoutube-dl is a command line program written in Python to download videos from popular video hosting and streaming sites, such as YouTube and Vimeo
ancardaI can manually make that page. Should probably be linked to archive, as that's what I suspect most people use `youtube-dl` for (it's my primary use of it)
LoqiIt looks like we don't have a page for "youtube-dl" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "youtube-dl is ____", a sentence describing the term)
LoqiIt looks like we don't have a page for "youtube-dl" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "youtube-dl is ____", a sentence describing the term)
ancardayoutube-dl is a command line program written in Python to download video and audio from popular video and audio hosting and streaming sites, such as YouTube, Vimeo, and SoundCloud
ancardaFor me, youtube-dl frequently fails to work, and every time, a `brew update` fixes the problem. I suspect it's because downloading from YouTube isn't officially supported, and they probably break whatever undocumented APIs it's using on a regular basis
tantekto answer sknebel's question from a while ago, because publishing a link or an embed isn't making a copy, and thus is not syndicating and thus neither POSSE nor PESOS.
LoqiIt looks like we don't have a page for "photo hosting" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "photo hosting is ____", a sentence describing the term)
aaronpkI should really host my conference videos myself as well as the youtube copy. right now I store the master mov file at home which is like 8gb/hr, and publish them on youtube. if I encoded a web-friendly version of that it would take a lot less space than 8gb/hr and I could host those files myself. just a lot of transcoding to do.
LoqiLOCKSS is an acronym for Lots Of Copies Keeps Stuff Safe, a mnemonic for the technique of keeping and encouraging many copies of things as a way of improving their longevity https://indieweb.org/LOCKSS
LoqiLOCKSS is an acronym for Lots Of Copies Keeps Stuff Safe, a project and collection of networks for libraries to keep copies of stuff on the web, but often used as a generic mnemonic for the technique of keeping and encouraging many copies of things as a way of improving their longevity https://indieweb.org/LOCKSS
Loqi[Zegnat] Re photo posts with other images in their content: what about emoji images? I seem to recall people using plugins in e.g. WordPress to have emoji images. Those would not be .u-photo but dropping a winky-face from text could severely affect tone of th...
Loqi[gRegor Morrill] Martijn asked if I had documented the micropub request I make for read posts. I had not yet, so decided to make some quick notes while it's fresh in my mind.
Currently, it sends an h-cite object with properties: status, url, name, author, and isbn....
ZegnatBTW: another example of a video file that will not work in browser video elements is FLV. I suddenly thought of that while I was sorting and writing down my thoughts on the video thing.
ZegnatAlso, fun fact, looks like YouTube offers a link to the application/x-shockwave-flash file to OpenGraph consumers. It really is format on-top-of format over at YouTube.
tantek.com edited /POSSE (+673) "/* Update */ more details, link out to silo pages for more, capture silo-specific notes / to-dos" (view diff)
Zegnat But many of these external platforms do not have simple file links I can point people (or mf2 parsers) to. Last I checked Twitch’s video player is actually backed by a playlist of short clips. They do that so loading times are kept to a minimum when you jump around in a 12 hour live stream.
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "embed" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "embed is ____", a sentence describing the term)
ancarda If I want to write a blog post where I mention an IndieWeb user, how should I markup their name? e.g. `<a class="p-name" lang="nl" href="https://vanderven.se/martijn/"><span class="p-given-name">Martijn</span> <span class="p-family-name">van der Ven</span></a>`? This would be inside an h-entry/h-feed. I don't want it confused with my h-card (that won't happen, right?)
ben_thatmustbeme interesting
sknebel there is also http://iframely.com/debug?uri=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DRaVCeofdZQc parsing some things, but nothing with additional useful data I can see here on first glance
aaronpk hm there's something about it here http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing-brainstorming#rel-enclosure
[kevinmarks] That's how rel-alternate works - should be in the rels list for mf2 parsing, but not in jf2
tantek sknebel: go look at how /jam evolved. it was just notes for a while, then the example of /ThisIsMyJam and their different UI inspired evolving it
[eddie] As much as I love to usually debate and disagree with tantek 😉 as far as microformats are concerned, I agree. I haven't come across any different behavior for YouTube video links. In my site I ultimately just detect the youtube URL and the "link preview" is adding the embed code with the given detected YouTube url.
loqi.me edited /read (+92) "tantek added "2017-12-11 [https://macwright.org/2017/12/11/indieweb-reading.html Owning my reading log]" to "See Also"" (view diff)
eddiehinkle.com edited /User:Eddiehinkle.com (+437) "Add blogging process description" (view diff)
KartikPrabhu Zegnat presumbably has a local offline copy but not hosted on his site, so he can also upload to another file host
gRegorLove huffduff-video uses youtuble-dl as well