#dev 2018-01-02

2018-01-02 UTC
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[miklb] seems I had a few permissions issues on my cache directory and the WP plugin for fastcgi cache was choking
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GWG Which plugin?
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[miklb] it’s just called Nginx Cache. Supposed to purge the fastcgi cache when content changes, or a manual button in the Tools
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GWG [miklb]: Oh, that. Did you compile cache-purge for Nginx?
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GWG It isn't built in by default, or it used to not be.
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[miklb] I did not, but still plan to compile nginx so I can add pagespeed. I’ll make a note to look at that module as well. I’m open to suggestions for other nginx modules I should consider.
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GWG I have my own methodology
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GWG I need to update it though
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loqi.me created /themes_for_posts (+30) "prompted by tantek and redirect added by tantek" (view diff)
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vanderven.se martijn uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:fork-and-edit.png]]" https://indieweb.org/File:fork-and-edit.png"
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vanderven.se martijn uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:bbedit-find-and-replace-spam.png]]" https://indieweb.org/File:bbedit-find-and-replace-spam.png"
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vanderven.se martijn edited /IRC (+1281) "/* Spam */ How I remove bulk spam from the logs." (view diff)
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readwriterespond.com edited /multi-site_indieweb (+512) (view diff)
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www.readwriterespond.com edited /multi-site_indieweb (+328) (view diff)
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vanderven.se martijn edited /blockchain (+521) "/* See Also */ Link to Tony Arcieri’s great take on blockchain vs ledgers that have existed for years." (view diff)
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readwriterespond.com created /User:Readwriterespond.com (+480) "Profile for readwriterespond.com" (view diff)
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vanderven.se martijn edited /blockchain (+397) "/* See Also */ Another crypto person tries to define what makes a blockchain “blockchain”." (view diff)
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[eddie] Looks like it might be almost time to re-do my "On This Day..." code. Last Spring I added an On This Day feature that showed any posts from the previous year. This worked because I didn't have almost any posts on my site from 2016. However, 2017 was common to have near 20 posts per day... lol So looks like i'll have to add some filtering to my On This Day feature
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[eddie] I'm thinking to start, I'll make it show the first post that has a photo
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aaronpk could maybe also rank those by number of responses
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[eddie] Yeah, my first thought is quick fix to prevent 20+ on this day posts :) Second thought is after that is done, then an algorithim
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[eddie] The three things I think I want to rank it by is: Does photo exist, Is anyone tagged and are there responses?
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[eddie] I'm not sure of the priority order of those
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aaronpk ooh person-tags is a good one
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[eddie] Yeah, and third maybe using post type discovery to give certain post types a higher priority. For example: An article I posted with no one tagged should probably be higher than a movie I watched with my wife
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[eddie] The movie would have a person tag, so that could potentially end up higher without post type discovery weighting
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[eddie] I guess start simple with person tags and responses with a boost if it contains a photo
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[eddie] Then when I come across concrete days where I feel like that wasn't the best post to feature, I can begin tweaking the algrothim
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aaronpk incremental++
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Loqi incremental has 1 karma in this channel (6 overall)
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aaronpk [eddie]: I was thinking about somehow getting weather info into my main Compass location database, that way the weather info is always accessible to anything that has access to my location. it would simplify my micropub endpoint code a lot to have that weather info already available. is that something you'd find useful as well?
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[kevinmarks] Incremental++
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Loqi incremental has 2 karma in this channel (7 overall)
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[kevinmarks] (how can I resist incrementing incremental?)
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ben_thatmustbeme heh
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ben_thatmustbeme decremental--
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Loqi decremental has -1 karma
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[eddie] aaronpk: Yeah, that would definitely be useful. I store quite a bit of data from dark sky in regards to weather but most of it is just so I always have it if needed. The main things that I currently use or have active plans on using are: apparentTemperature, icon, moonPhase, nearestStormDistance, precipType, summary, sunriseTime, sunsetTime, temperature, visibility,
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aaronpk Cool. do you use Overland?
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[eddie] Yep, I do
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aaronpk I was thinking about moving the code there
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aaronpk to have the app look up weather info and include it in the location updates it reports to the server
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[eddie] Yeah, that seems like that could work. I think the only concern is you can have GPS location without internet
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aaronpk yeah, i'm on the fence about doing it on the phone or doing it in Compass
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[eddie] So if the phone losses internet, do you lose weather tracking or does it just collect all the non-weather locations when you get internet again?
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aaronpk well before we get that far, I was also thinking about how to handle caching/rate limiting. the weather APIs have pretty low limits of how often you can ping them, certainly much less than looking up every record
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aaronpk so I was thinking about caching the weather info based on both time and distance
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[eddie] That's true. I don't have to worry about limits currently because I only do it per post, and I don't do that many daily posts yet haha
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Loqi nice
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aaronpk something like either 5 or 10 minutes, and ~5km or so
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[eddie] Yeah that seems like more than enough accuracy in my mind.
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aaronpk (checking every 5 minutes is well within the rate limits of darksky and wunderground)
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aaronpk so for short offline periods like going underground, it wouldn't really affect the data that much
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[eddie] That's true.
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aaronpk but for a several-hour plane flight, it would stop recording weather
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aaronpk tho at that point, the weather isn't very relevant anyway
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[eddie] True. I guess the only other concern is battery life
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aaronpk yeah, network fetches are a big battery hog for sure
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[eddie] Yeah that might make be a bit nervous for my phone. I try to be somewhat conservative with my GPS tracking. (I have it pause when I'm at locations for an extended period of time)
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[eddie] Well I guess if I don't move 5k
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aaronpk I let mine run all the time so I already have crap battery life, it probably wouldn't make much of a difference for me 😂
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[eddie] lol!!
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aaronpk the caching i'm imagining would be time *or* distance, so it would try to get new weather every 5 minutes, but also if you moved more than 5km in 5 minutes
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[eddie] ohhhh that's right
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[eddie] hmm yeah, right now I have the send interval set to eery 30 minutes to reduce network requests
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aaronpk so the other option I was thinking was having Compass augment the location records it receives with the weather info
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aaronpk that's possible with the darksky API since it lets you do historical lookups
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aaronpk but, a few challenges I was running into with that approach:
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aaronpk since Compass writes to append-only files, it can't really go back and update records that are already written to disk. this means it has to fetch the weather info before it writes to disk
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aaronpk since the app may send very large batches of locations that require multiple weather lookups, it obviously can't do the weather lookup in the same HTTP request that the phone sends
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aaronpk so this implies Compass needs to take the locations from the phone and write them to a temporary location, probably a Redis list to make things easy
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aaronpk then a background script can go through and process those locations to add the weather info, then write to the storage file
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[eddie] Hmmm yeah. That is tricky. As I was reading though that, some kind of queue came to mind, aka Redis list. So that definitely makes sense, but I definitely see how that can be a lot of added complexity to the system
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aaronpk but again since Compass writes to append-only files, this process can't happen in parallel like I'd normally do, it has to be done with only a single background process in order to avoid conflicts writing to the file
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Zegnat That feels like a storage nightmare. Would it not be easier to at that point have a separate storage for the weather data?
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sknebel second quartzdb as a queue that gets deleted at end of day instead of adding another dep?
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[eddie] ahhh yeah. lol I was just about to say, you probably can't do parallel with your database
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aaronpk Zegnat: I already have a separate DB for the weather data, but right now the problem is keeping the two relatively in sync and it makes my micropub code a lot more complicated to pull the info from two places
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[eddie] Hmm Zegnat has an interesting thought there. What if there were two quartzdb that compass talked to
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[eddie] so one API but two quartzdb that get merged in Compass?
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Zegnat Ah, I guess you have it all hooked to your Micropub, yeah. I was thinking only of Compass as a server.
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aaronpk my micropub endpoint wants to be able to either query the last location (with weather) or query the location and weather at a given timestamp
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[eddie] Does this sound do-able at all? Compass receives data from Overland, it writes location data to location.db. Periodic background task in Compass fetches the last entry from weather.db, grabs all locations from location.db that are more recent. Fetches weather for those locations and appends them to weather.db
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[eddie] Then when you query Compass's API (either last location or given timestamp), it fetches the location.db and weather.db for given timestamp
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aaronpk I guess if the timestamps matched up exactly that could work
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[eddie] If you used Dark Sky's API, you could use the timestamp from the location data when querying it, so then you could ensure it had the same timestamp
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Zegnat Exactly matching timestamps sound hard. Quartz has (theoretical) millisecond precision, right?
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aaronpk microsecond
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[eddie] hmmm that is tricky
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aaronpk another thought: Compass could use MySQL as the queue and temporary storage, since I can write to MySQL in parallel. so Compass receives a batch of locations and writes it to a MySQL table, then hangs up the HTTP connection and kicks off a background process. That starts querying the weather API for each location (with the 5min/5km buffer) and writes either the successful weather info or a failure code
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aaronpk to the MySQL record. when that batch is done, it's written to the file on disk.
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[eddie] Hmm, that doesn't seem horrible
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www.boffosocko.com edited /buttons (+357) "badges from aaronpk" (view diff)
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aaronpk this is all better than doing the lookup on the phone because of network requests right?
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:webmention-button.png]]" https://indieweb.org/File:webmention-button.png"
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:microformats-button.png]]" https://indieweb.org/File:microformats-button.png"
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aaronparecki.com edited /buttons (+66) "/* Buttons */" (view diff)
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Zegnat I don’t have a stake in this as I am on Android, but I would say whatever you come up with that saves the phone from doing the network requests is the right move
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aaronparecki.com edited /p3k (+505) "/* Itching */" (view diff)
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[eddie] Obviously it's a tough balance because that is a lot of complexity for the server to save network requests.
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[eddie] But for me, network requests is best to be at a minimum
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[eddie] when it comes to phones
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[eddie] plus, if an Android version of Overland was built one day, Zegnat could partake in weather data 😉
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[eddie] haha
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aaronpk I was also imagining another row of icons in Overland that would show the weather info cause it'd be cute, but that's super not necessary
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[eddie] haha, that makes sense. That said, I'm trying to open up Overland as little as possible 😄
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aaronpk ha yeah. I also open it all the time for the trip tracking
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[eddie] In fact, I'm looking at seeing if I can build an Apple Watch extension at some point to make opening Overland less common
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aaronpk nice
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Zegnat I am not actually interested in weather tracker. There is a lot of other tracking I would like to get started on prior to that :P
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aaronpk still doesn't have an apple watch
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[eddie] Well Gen 1 wasn't that great
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[eddie] but Gen 3 is killing it
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Zegnat Although constant GPS tracking is definitely something I am interested in doing. The timed GPS polling my phone does now doesn’t really give me a lot of data.
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[eddie] Yeah timed GPS is tough. Misses some nuances
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[eddie] aaronpk: It's been hiding in plain sight: https://indieweb.org/User:Eddiehinkle.com#Currently_on_my_mind (item #5) 😉
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aaronpk nice
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aaronpk re: long pauses at locations, iOS actually provides that data pretty well now
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Zegnat It also seems that if the GPS chip isn’t constantly running and looking for signals, it is simply less accurate. When it gets turned on and has limited time to figure out where you are before being shut off again it isn’t going to be as accurate.
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aaronpk if you have "include tracking stats" enabled in Overland, you'll see some records that are labeled "visits"
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Zegnat At least that is how it seems to me, comparing my GPS logs with, e.g. just keeping a maps app open for a bit
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aaronpk Zegnat: yeah that usually has to do with the type of location the app requests. that's why I have all the little toggles in Overland, so you can customize it
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[eddie] ohh really? I'll have to turn on tracking stats and test that out
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aaronpk a "visit" is recorded about 10 minutes after you stop moving. it's surprisingly good
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tommorris.org edited /site-deaths (+157) "/* Upcoming */ adding Mapzen to death row" (view diff)
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Zegnat “type of location”, aaronpk?
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aaronpk Zegnat: yeah, iOS calls it "navigation", "fitness", etc, as well as lets the app request location at a certain accuracy
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aaronpk android has similar features IIRC but i'm not as familiar with all the recent updates there
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Zegnat Me neither. The app I use lets me set minimum GPS accuracy to a minimum of 4 metres.
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aaronpk [eddie]: I was actually thinking about making a separate tracking mode in Overland that doesn't request location updates at all and only uses the significant change and visit APIs. it would basicaly use no battery at all.
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aaronpk i've hesitated on implementing that because I know I won't use it
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[eddie] aaronpk: That's interesting. I definitely want more in-depth tracking than that as well. That's why I fiddle with mine.
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[eddie] When I leave my house, I typically disable the Pause Updates Automatically
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[eddie] and I'll enable Trip Tracking and have best accuracy and such.
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Zegnat Not sure why Overland users would want to not use constant tracking, aaronpk? Wouldn’t there be tonnes of apps that can offer that?
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[eddie] I just am at home a lot so I try to not have it run when I'm at home all day
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aaronpk Zegnat: there are very few apps that let you point the app at your own server
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aaronpk I know some people are using the app to get location data on people for studies, and that often involves needing to know just rough location liek whether they're at work or at home
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Zegnat I do wish Backitude let me switch into some sort of “trip tracking” mode. To switch from GPS polling to full on tracking when on a bike etc.
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Zegnat Oh, interesting, aaronpk
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aaronparecki.com edited /p3k (+210) "/* Itching */" (view diff)
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[eddie] aaronpk: What about /@nickname for your URL scheme
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[eddie] I don't know if that's okay in URLs
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[eddie] lol
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aaronparecki.com edited /p3k (+195) "/* Random Ideas */" (view diff)
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aaronpk oh ha not a bad idea
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aaronpk yeah medium does that
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Zegnat aaronpk, I am a little saddened that your “buttons” don’t use https://www.kottke.org/plus/type/silkscreen/ as their font
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aaronpk they do!
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Zegnat The webmention one does not. Or maybe at a different size?
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aaronpk oh I had to modify that one slightly
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Zegnat B should be separate circles but they are connected. Which set me off ;)
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aaronpk wait no that is the font
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aaronpk https://media.aaronpk.com/Screen-Shot-2018-01-02-09-41-20-caXf6lu4W5.jpg
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Zegnat Huh. I could swear the B is supposed to be detached
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aaronpk I thought it was too actually
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aaronpk I think I separated it for the indieweb one
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Zegnat Hmm. Google Images shows me two different Bs.
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Zegnat downloads the font from Kottke
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aaronparecki.com edited /p3k (+14) "/* Address Book */" (view diff)
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Zegnat Yeah, looks like the B should connect on the right. Odd. Doesn’t match my memory at all.
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aaronpk huh i'm kind of liking the idea of URLs like https://aaronparecki.com/@tantek
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Loqi Aaron Parecki
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tantek but I don't have an account on aaronparecki.com (should I?)
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tantek why not aaronparecki.com/@tantek.com ?
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aaronpk not an account no
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aaronpk my copy of your h-card
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tantek why do you want to manage a public list of nicknames?
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aaronpk *my* public list of nicknames
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aaronpk nicknames that I already use in my posts
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tantek shouldn't those post @-names be @-domains tho? like @tantek.com?
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tantek that would be more indieweb IMO
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snarfed https://indieweb.org/nicknames-cache
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aaronpk i'm realizing that it just doesn't feel natural
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tantek that's because you're used to silo @-names
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aaronpk to refer to people in plaintext posts by their full URLs
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Zegnat I wouldn’t do domains either when writing posts. I still think of people by a name, not a domain.
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aaronpk also I can never remember which site is Zegnat's primary site, so I just want to be able to refer to him as @Zegnat
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Zegnat Hahaha
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Loqi awesome
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tantek aaronpk, then keep using @-nickname for user-entry, but just for lookup in your nicknames cache and then display their actual name, linked to their site
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aaronpk "actual name" lol
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tantek passport name if you prefer :P
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aaronpk I do not prefer
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tantek yes actual "name" property from their h-card
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Zegnat Just name is best name.
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tantek that seems more respectful than making up your own nickname for someone
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tantek or even re-using one of their silo nicknames
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tantek if they wanted you to display and call them @-name something they could put that in their "name" property
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[eddie] The downfall of name property is that its a fullname. Which seems very dissociative
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Zegnat Yeah, but this is just about how aaronpk is generating a link to his local h-card of the person right?
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tantek and if they don't have a "name" property or h-card then I think falling back to @-domain is better
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Zegnat I can totally see why you would “file” those h-cards under a name aaronpk choses
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aaronpk I would rather people write "aaronpk" (nickname in my h-card) in posts instead of "Aaron Parecki" (name in my h-card)
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aaronpk but I publish both
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tantek in a post when you reference someone you really should link directly to them, not to a local page about them, that also seems like the kind of thing a silo or SEO-skeezy site would do
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aaronpk who said I was going to link to my local copy of them in a post
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Zegnat I don’t think aaronpk is actually going to link to those h-card pages?
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tantek Zegnat implied it
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tantek "generating a link to his local h-card"
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Zegnat I meant he is generating URLs because the h-cards in his system have a URL. Not that he would explicitly refer to those h-cards. Sorry for confusion.
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Zegnat Presumably those URLs are only for him. Thus I think it is fine to use @nicknamechosenbyaaronhimself in the URL.
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tantek I like the Wikipedia (and frankly journalistic approach) in articles, first reference is full name ("name") linked to their site, subsequent references can use just given name if informal (a friend) or family name if a more formal reference (someone you don't know and you're citing them)
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aaronpk but that's just not how peopel write in microblog posts
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aaronpk i'm not going to try to apply journalistic writing techniques to microblogging :P
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tantek that may be a reason to distinguish, depending on length? like if a microblog post gets long enough with enough paragraphs it starts to feel more like an article
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tantek how do @-names in your posts work when you POSSE to different destinations? do you have to keep a list of translations? what about passive POSSE e.g. micro.blog where it just reads your feed?
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tantek either you have to deal with @-name clashes across services like that, or you come up with something else (which is why I like @-domain as a indieweb-aware way of doing it)
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aaronpk I only recently got the nicknames cache working again so I still need to do the mapping to silo accounts but the data is in place
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tantek it's also so much better than the @-@- thing of mastodon etc.
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aaronpk I only have one h-card right now, sknebel's
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aaronpk And that's cause he doesnt have that twitter account
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[eddie] tantek: on my website @nickname is a URL that points to their homepage. That same href is displayed on Micro.blog
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[eddie] I am pretty sure micro.blog doesn't care about the @name as much as the URL it points to
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[eddie] obviously for micro.blog it would need to point to their micro.blog profile instead of homepage
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[eddie] but manton hasn't finished adding that part yet
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[eddie] so it's not 100% clear
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Zegnat I would love to just see what names people end up using for me
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[eddie] If someone is at least a casual acquaintance, I typically use @Firstname unless there is a first name conflict, then I add @FirstnameLastname or some other identifier like I use my niece's @FirstnameMiddleName
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[eddie] unless someone has a well known usename like aaronpk
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[eddie] at which point, that would be used
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Zegnat I am Zegnat only on Freenode and GitHub, else I am martijnvdven. I can definitely see different people using different names to refer to me.
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[eddie] ohhh yeah
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[eddie] that makes sense. haha I see Zegnat so often I get confused and forget it's not your name 😄
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[eddie] irc confusion! haha
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Zegnat I would respond to that name, so not really a problem 😉
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[keithjgrant] Does anybody know why Telegraph doesn't see the link to bridgy/publish here? https://keithjgrant.com/notes/2017/11/72425/
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Loqi 20:08 PM • 28 Nov 2017 “So, implementors: build stuff which kills your own FB usage before trying to kill faceb...
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schmarty static_site << http://www.ftwynn.com/articles/creating-a-post-api-for-hugo/
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Loqi schmarty: [eddie] left you a message 4 days, 16 hours ago: While parsing https://martymcgui.re/2017/12/26/102358/ I realized that your dt-published date is ISO8601, but the dt-start is Jekyll’s offshoot date where you place the “T” with a space and add a space between the time and the timezone
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Loqi ok, I added "http://www.ftwynn.com/articles/creating-a-post-api-for-hugo/" to the "See Also" section of /static_site
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loqi.me edited /static_site (+63) "schmarty added "http://www.ftwynn.com/articles/creating-a-post-api-for-hugo/" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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sknebel [keithjgrant]: Telegraph only looks in the first mf2 object on the page it seems
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schmarty !tell [eddie] thanks for the dt-published vs dt-start inconsistency on my post. i'm probably forgetting to pass in a format somewhere.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[keithjgrant] @sknebel - hm. I thought I had an h-card at the top of my old design, too
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sknebel I just looked at mention--client source, that's how it does it. not sure that's a good idea, would have to ask aaronpk for the reasoning
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sknebel seems worthy a filed bug, at the very least it did not do what you expected without telling you why
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[keithjgrant] Oh, I think in my old design, the h-entry was on the <body>, with the h-card nested within
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gRegorLove what is prefetch?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "prefetch" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "prefetch is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[keithjgrant] Is it valid the way I've got it now? H-card followed by h-entry?
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gRegorLove what is rel-prefetch?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "rel-prefetch" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "rel-prefetch is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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@NelioSoft_ES Por si te lo perdiste: Trackbacks, pingbacks y webmentions https://neliosoftware.com/es/blog/trackbacks-pingbacks-y-webmentions/ https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DSkGQPRXkAEd7fZ.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/948296075290595329)
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gregorlove.com created /link_prefetching (+281) "stub" (view diff)
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gRegorLove prefetch is /link prefetching
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /prefetch (+57) "prompted by gRegorLove and dfn added by gRegorLove" (view diff)
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gRegorLove rel-prefetch is /link prefetching
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /rel-prefetch (+61) "prompted by gRegorLove and dfn added by gRegorLove" (view diff)
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gRegorLove Noticed [keithjgrant] has that, in case wondering where ^ came from
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ludovicchabant hello there! happy new year! are there any good tools I can use for POSSEing stuff to Mastodon/GNUSocial?
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[eddie] keithjgrant Wow Beautiful Site redesign! How did you do the page transitions?
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KartikPrabhu [eddie]: [keithjgrant] seems ti be using Javscript to do page transitions, afaik that is the only way to do them
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[keithjgrant] eddie Thanks! I listen for clicks on links; if it's to a same-domain url, I prevent navigation and load the page via AJAX instead. All pages have a few key classnames ("js-main" or something like that) to help find the key part of content to transition in.
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[keithjgrant] I do a lookup based on old url & new url to decide which animation to play. Used GSAP for the actual animation implementation
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[eddie] ohhhhh nice! So you have static site pages, and you're just pulling in the content via JavaScript and injecting it
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[keithjgrant] Yep. All statically generated
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[eddie] That's pretty awesome. I'm stuck in-between static sites and doing a server-side Angular. So this is an interesting medium
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[keithjgrant] My one big compromise is I couldn't put an `h-entry` on the <body>, since some pages need it and some don't. So I had to nest that more deeply, but I think it works out okay this way
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Zegnat ludovicchabant have a look at https://fed.brid.gy/
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Loqi Ryan Barrett
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cweiske IIRC, internet explorer 4 or 5 had a transition-on-link-clicks setting
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[keithjgrant] eddie If you want a closer look under the hood, you can see the source at https://github.com/keithjgrant/keithjgrant.com/tree/master/themes/shindig/static-src/js
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[eddie] keithjgrant: I don't put my h-entry on body currently so that's not a bad tradoff for me 🙂
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[eddie] Awesome, I'll take a look. Thanks!
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cweiske ah, there it is: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms532847(v=vs.85).aspx#Interpage_Transition
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cweiske it really was IE4
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cweiske interpage transitions
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ludovicchabant Ah thanks Zegnat ! But AFAICT Bridgy is generally for the other way (i.e. getting pings back from somewhere onto your website's IndieWeb endpoints)
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ludovicchabant I'm looking for cross posting basically
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snarfed ludovicchabant: note the *fed* in the url Zegnat posted. related but different service :P
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Zegnat I was just about to write that. Might be the most confusing domain you could have used snarfed ;)
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snarfed (and also bridgy does do posse as well as backfeed!)
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snarfed I REGRET NOTHING
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ludovicchabant oh Bridgy does both ways? Mmmh I must have missed that
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ludovicchabant Especially since the second paragraph says "This isn't syndication or POSSE!" :D
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ludovicchabant But then later, "Mastodon: replies, likes, and reposts aka boosts, both directions, via ActivityPub".... I guess "both directions" is the key here
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Zegnat snarfed++
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Loqi snarfed has 25 karma in this channel (327 overall)
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snarfed heh. *bridgy* does posse and backfeed. *bridgy fed* does federation. related but different.
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ludovicchabant Cool, thanks -- I'll check back on Bridgy/BridgyFed then
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ludovicchabant btw snarfed it looks like the formatting of this post is broken (missing bullet lists) https://snarfed.org/indieweb-ostatus-bridge
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Loqi [Ryan Barrett] IndieWeb OStatus bridge
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snarfed ludovicchabant: thanks! fixed.
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ludovicchabant ok so if I understand this correctly, both Bridgy versions will crosspost on various services if you send them a webmention to tell them to crosspost a specific URL, is that correct?
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ludovicchabant so I would need to integrate something in my CMS that figures out when there's a new article, and then ping Bridgy about it?
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snarfed ludovicchabant: roughly. bridgy, yes. bridgy fed, only responses, not original posts. (and it federates, not cross posts.)
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snarfed and yes, but bridgy also has an interactive UI, so you don't have to do webmention
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ludovicchabant what's the difference between federating and crossposting?
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KartikPrabhu good question ^
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KartikPrabhu what is federation?
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Loqi federation in the context of the indieweb refers to services and features on indieweb sites that work directly with other indieweb sites peer-to-peer, without having to setup or create accounts in both places, and without being bottlenecked by any kind of centralized service or silo https://indieweb.org/federation
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KartikPrabhu what is crossposting?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "crossposting" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "crossposting is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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snarfed federating with e.g. mastodon means it understands that the real version of your post is on your site, not on mastodon
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snarfed ie links go to your site, etc.
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gRegorLove crossposting is /syndication-models
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /crossposting (+31) "prompted by KartikPrabhu and redirect added by gRegorLove" (view diff)
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Zegnat It is as if your own site is a self-hosted Mastodon instance, since Mastodon works federated. Is that a good description in this case, snarfed?
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snarfed yup
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ludovicchabant so cross-posting means "copy the whole thing" (assuming it's under 280 chars or whatever the limit is) and make it look as if you posted it natively on Twitter/Mastodon/etc?
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ludovicchabant whereas federating means just posting the title and link?
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gRegorLove Hm, that redirect isn't right. Oops.
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gregorlove.com edited /crossposting (-5) "fix r" (view diff)
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gRegorLove what is crossposting?
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Loqi Cross-posting is the social media practice of syndicating or placing the same content, possibly slightly modified, on numerous different websites https://indieweb.org/crossposting
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ludovicchabant oh right Zegnat -- yeah it's especially confusing since I don't know if "federation" for indieweb has the same meaning as for Mastodon/GNUSocial/etc. :)
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snarfed ludovicchabant: federating doesn't necessarily change how the content of a post shows up. it has to do with how the underlying sites interact. kinda subtle.
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snarfed indieweb protocols are federated, yes. each site is a node
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snarfed but via different protocols than mastodon (activitypub) or gnu social (ostatus)
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snarfed example bridgy fed comment: https://lgbt.io/@nelson/2825766 (scroll down)
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Loqi [Nelson Minar] Somehow find myself watching H R Pufnstuf and holy shit were the 70s weird. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFUyhTY0jyg
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snarfed note that my avatar links to https://snarfed.org/ , not to a mastodon instance, and "2 days ago" links to the original reply on my site
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Loqi Ryan Barrett
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ludovicchabant ah ok, so yeah in my case I already have a Mastodon instance myself... so my indieweb site "identity" is different from my Mastodon "identity"
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snarfed right
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ludovicchabant I guess I'm looking for something slightly different then
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ludovicchabant thanks!
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Zegnat Another interesting question is if you need a separate Mastodon identity if your posts on your website all are compatible with other Mastodon instances already 😉
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Zegnat But of course I don't know your usecase.
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gRegorLove Mastodon can "follow" (or whatever the correct term is) an indieweb site?
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gRegorLove I thought it needed some Atom feeds or something
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sknebel you do.
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snarfed https://github.com/tootsuite/mastodon/issues/1441
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Loqi [raymestalez] #1441 What is necessary for Mastodon to be able to fetch my profile and a list of posts from my blog?
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Zegnat Ah, O thought that was more of a "solved" case then it appears. My apologies.
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Zegnat Has anyone tried using Mastodon as their IndieWeb CMS?
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snarfed Zegnat: you can definitely follow a web site with an atom feed from mastodon. it's finicky, but doable
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ludovicchabant Zegnat: my use case is that i want to treat Mastodon the same as, say, Twitter... which is that the fact that I own my Mastodon instance is irrelevant and just a “coincidence”
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ludovicchabant The reality is that after thinking about it for a while, I don’t think I want to centralize as much of my content on my website as so if you do... I want to cross post, but then I want to “engage” with other services’ users directly on the services themselves, rather than from the confines of my indie web site
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snarfed ludovicchabant: you can still do that! eg i generally POSSE everywhere manually, and often like/reply within those services (and automatically PESOS those back)
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snarfed (or not :P)
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ludovicchabant Yep I can but I guess for instance Fed Bridgy doesn’t fit it? It would have to know about my Mastodon instance to cross post?
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ludovicchabant There’s also the fact that I’m using a static website so unlike, say, Wordpress, I don’t have the concept of “publishing an article” in the same sense
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snarfed if you really want to POSSE to mastodon, then no, i don't think any current indieweb tool does that, including bridgy
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snarfed (i think static vs dynamic is unrelated to this)
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snarfed try just POSSEing to mastodon manually for a while
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snarfed "manual until it hurts!"
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ludovicchabant Haha yeah that’s what I do at the moment
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Loqi haha
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ludovicchabant It doesn’t hurt yet... but it bothers me :)
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snarfed eh. manual until it hurts.
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ludovicchabant I do think that static/dynamic has a bit to do with it since some services like Bridgy support automation based on some CMS sending a POST request on publish
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snarfed sure, via webmention. there are lots of tools that help static sites send webmentions.
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ludovicchabant Yeah I started looking at those too
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loqi.me edited /custom_post_style (+49) "tantek added "https://digwp.com/2010/02/custom-css-per-post/" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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ludovicchabant There’s the recently announced “lazymention” that is basically like what I was hacking at
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ludovicchabant I might just roll my own “because I can” and also because it would integrate hopefully better with my static website’s admin panel
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ludovicchabant We’ll see... I’m still gathering up info and examples at this point.
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loqi.me created /minimum_indieweb (+30) "prompted by tantek and redirect added by tantek" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /IndieAuth (+237) "/* how to should include endpoint definition */ stop suggestion extra steps for the 99% that are only needed for the 1%" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /IndieAuth (-1) "/* how to should include endpoint definition */" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /IndieAuth (+199) "stub Setup your own IndieAuth provider with ask someone who has done it" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /IndieMark (+159) "/* draft levels */ note setting up IndieAuth can be done easy with rel-me, or harder with local provider support (no obv how to on [[IndieAuth]] to link to, so yeah, much harder)" (view diff)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: re: Known pivoting discussion, perhaps #withknown ?
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KartikPrabhu tantek: sure, I keep forgetting about all the channels :P
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tantek what are channels
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "channels" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "channels is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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tantek channels are /discuss#Chat_Channels
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /channels (+34) "prompted by tantek and redirect added by tantek" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu cool
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tantek.com edited /discuss (+575) "/* Chat Channels */ add brief descriptions for related channels used by the community and available in Slack #microformats #knownchat #bridgy" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /LS (+20) "prompted by tantek and redirect added by tantek" (view diff)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: ^^^ added explicit #knownchat docs to make it a bit more discoverable hopefully
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KartikPrabhu yup :thumbsup:
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tantek what is minimum
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "minimum" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "minimum is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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tantek minimum is /IndieMark#Level_1
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /minimum (+30) "prompted by tantek and redirect added by tantek" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Leaders (+574) "/* Issues */ Redirect IRC People to something less about chat plumbing?" (view diff)
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www.readwriterespond.com edited /User:Www.readwriterespond.com (-354) "Redirect for www.readwriterespond.com" (view diff)