#dev 2018-01-05

2018-01-05 UTC
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[cleverdevil] So you can see title and the first little bit, and then expand it if you want.
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[cleverdevil] Ack!
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[cleverdevil] I just had a bunch of channels show up in my Monocle, aaronpk 🙂
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aaronpk a...bunch of channels?
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GWG I am wondering if I should abandon an idea to steal ideas from XRay and incorporate some APIs into my Post Kinds parser
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[cleverdevil] Yes, as in, I think your channels.
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aaronpk wat
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[cleverdevil] Oh, its only in Together.
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[cleverdevil] Not in Monocle.
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[cleverdevil] Crazy, its showing me partially logged in as you.
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aaronpk whuut
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[cleverdevil] methinks something is leaking, grantcodes.
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aaronpk how is that possible, I thought Together was JS only
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[cleverdevil] Not sure. I'm signing out and back in again, hopefully.
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grantcodes Hmm it is kinda js only. But may be to do with requests being made at the same time.
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aaronpk oh is there like a server-side component for proxying requests?
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grantcodes The actual server back end is very dodgy.
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aaronpk is it written in Node?
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grantcodes But it shouldn't store any keys or anything there, that's all frontend and passed to the server
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grantcodes Yeah all node
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aaronpk sounds like a global variable leak or something to me
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grantcodes Self hosting will definitely avoid that issue, might have to change a variable or 2 though
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aaronpk I remember having this problem with some old IRC bot stuff I was doing a long time ago
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aaronpk gotta make sure all the variables are scoped inside the callback functions, otherwise stuff leaks because it's all asynchronous
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grantcodes Yeah it'll likely be classes that are instanciated with one key and overwritten with another while waiting for the microsub response
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grantcodes Don't know I'll have time to fix it in the next couple of days or not so may just take down that hosted version until I fix it.
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aaronpk i'm gonna have to figure out how to install this huh
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grantcodes Actually don't think it should be too hard
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grantcodes Just node, npm and yarn should be required 🤞
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aaronpk "just" 😂
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[kevinmarks] I had that problem with noterlive originally, you need to be careful with per user state
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grantcodes Well I've taken it offline for now
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grantcodes I'm hoping it'll be as simple as moving some code from outside a route to inside a route, but can't remember off the top of my head
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aaronpk hope so!
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grantcodes Cough cough alpha build. Use at your own risk 😂🔫
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aaronpk good thing my indieauth server issues limited-capability tokens! even if cleverdevil was able to get my access token from that response, he couldn't use it to create posts
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grantcodes At the moment I think that would've been possible. I've been very lazy with the backend past getting it to a MVP state
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tantek what is MVP
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Loqi MVP is an abbreviation for minimum viable product, the concept and methodology of designing, developing, and deploying the smallest/simplest possible variant of a product as a first step to shipping, getting real world feedback, and iterating from there https://indieweb.org/MVP
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tantek what is a capability token
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "capability token" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "capability token is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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tantek what is an access token
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Loqi An access_token is a bearer token that is given to a micropub client from a token-endpoint https://indieweb.org/access_token
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grantcodes Well gotta go to bed, will try and get it fixed and back online tomorrow. Just see this as incentive to install it locally and then you can contribute code 😉
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sknebel considers trying again to install the dependencies
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[cleverdevil] Great work, grantcodes 🙂
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[cleverdevil] I've got it running locally, its trivial to install and run.
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GWG aaronpk: Temperature doesn't have an experimental microformat on your site?
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tantek what is temperature
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "temperature" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "temperature is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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tantek GWG, want to stub an article about indieweb use of temperature? ^^^
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aaronparecki.com edited /YouTube (+167) "/* Copyright Claim */" (view diff)
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tantek what is weather
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Loqi Weather is the state of the atmosphere at a place and time as regards heat, dryness, sunshine, wind, rain, etc https://indieweb.org/weather
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tantek or is it just part of that ^^^ ?
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sknebel [cleverdevil]: last I tried yarn did not want to play ball and I gave up after one hour of not even getting the dependencies installed since yarn failed random ones each try. not sure what was up with that
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aaronpk GWG: I didn't add microformats markup to the output yet, although I am using experimental properties in my storage
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GWG aaronpk: Just curious
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[cleverdevil] Weird, I used homebrew to get yarn installed on my mac.
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[cleverdevil] Once I had it, it was easy.
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grantcodes It might also run without yarn if you replace yarn with npm in all the commands. No guarantee though
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loqi.me created /Hashing (+191) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by [kevinmarks]" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /Hashing (+27) "See Also" (view diff)
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tantek what is transit?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "transit" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "transit is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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loqi.me edited /Hashing (+24) "[kevinmarks] added "http://svgur.com/dweb" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /Hashing (+11) "[kevinmarks] added "[[etag]]" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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tantek.com moved /Hashing to /hashing "not a proper noun"
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loqi.me edited /hashing (+13) "[kevinmarks] added "Bittorrent" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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tantek I forget how nice a mobile web app nextmuni.com is
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tantek I am trying to replace as many "native" apps with web apps
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aaronpk a good web app bookmarked to the home screen can be better than a native app
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tantek problem is part of the native app "feature set" requires bookmarking individual pages in the web app
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tantek which I think is an opportunity to build another web app on top of it (nextmuni.com)
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tantek (keeping track of favorite stops / directions / lines)
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tantek oh oops they broke it
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tantek it makes itself a "standalone" web app when you bookmark it (add to homescreen) which then does not have any way of asking for Geolocation API permissions and just fails
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tantek "Origina does not have permission to use Geolocation service"
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tantek Origin*
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tantek gah
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KartikPrabhu so much for "nice mobile web app"
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tantek well, looks like after /contact and /pay I need to now build a /transit UI that is just a bunch of buttons of links to specific nextmuni.com prediction pages for routes / stops
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tantek that way I can make that page itself open in Safari (rather than as its own process) and then tapping the links in it will get Geolocation inside Safari
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GWG tantek: I'm missing something here
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aaronpk needs to be https to use location now
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[kevinmarks] Sounds like an iOS bug
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GWG What are you trying to do in transit?
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aaronpk try bookmarking the https version
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aaronpk (not sure why they don't redirect http to https)
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tantek ah no it is a #-URL problem
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tantek the webapp keeps all state in # URLs
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tantek so when you "bookmark" it - it ends up bookmarking the home page
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tantek as a standalone app
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tantek instead, each prediction has a "Page to bookmark" link you have to click first lol
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tantek then *that* works as "Add to Homescreen"
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tantek GWG talking about nextmuni.com
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tantek I want to use the website instead of "Routesy" or any other transit "app"
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GWG I get that. But what are you trying to do?
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tantek reimplement a feature that is in Routesy but not nextmuni.com - "favorite / bookmarked stops / lines / directions"
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GWG I look forward to seeing that. I enjoy transit as a concept
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tantek wait does aaronpk not track bus / trimet rides?!?
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aaronpk I do
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aaronpk just as GPS logs tho
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aaronpk not route numbers
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tantek yeah that doesn't count
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tantek not like flights then
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aaronpk yeah
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tantek whoa
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aaronpk I need a way faster UI for that if i'm gonna do it
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tantek is suddenly motivated
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tantek what is a flight
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Loqi flight is a type of travel https://indieweb.org/flight
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aaronpk occasionally anomalily checks me in to MAX lines on Swarm
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tantek aaronpk when did you implement flights?
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aaronpk but that doesn't record the start/end location of the trip which is what I would want
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tantek aaronpk - assuming you get checked into the start and end, that should be inferrable
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aaronpk flight plans?
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tantek yeah
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tantek.com edited /flight (+205) "travel post dfn, indieweb example aaronpk" (view diff)
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tantek travel << flight
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Loqi ok, I added "[[flight]]" to the "See Also" section of /travel
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loqi.me edited /travel (+13) "tantek added "[[flight]]" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk I believe you tracked some trains you took in Germany as part of travel plans
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aaronpk yes true
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GWG I read the APIs for local transit. I considered doing something with them
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aaronpk whoa, my first flight plan post is 2013
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tantek.com edited /flight (+59) "found aaronpk first flight tracked from [[travel]]" (view diff)
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tantek GWG I am considering building a site that links to existing sites that use APIs for local transit
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tantek rather than building that API calling support myself
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tantek what is transit
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "transit" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "transit is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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GWG tantek: For now, I haven't built anything to display transit at all.
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GWG In my mind, manual comes before automatic.
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aaronparecki.com edited /flight (+80) "add summary of flight posts" (view diff)
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tantek transit is often short for mass transit which includes bus, light rail, and train [[travel]] methods typically in and around urban areas
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /transit (+164) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /flight (+103) "/* Aaron Parecki */" (view diff)
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tantek transit << https://www.nextbus.com/ - SF MUNI route and stop prediction web app
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Loqi ok, I added "https://www.nextbus.com/ - SF MUNI route and stop prediction web app" to the "See Also" section of /transit
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loqi.me edited /transit (+88) "See Also" (view diff)
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aaronpk here's a train post https://aaronparecki.com/2017/04/02/1/
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Eugene to Portland https://aaronparecki.com/2017/04/02/1/map.png
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tantek transit << Routesy - [[iOS]] app for SF route and stop prediction
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Loqi ok, I added "Routesy - [[iOS]] app for SF route and stop prediction" to the "See Also" section of /transit
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loqi.me edited /transit (+74) "See Also" (view diff)
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tantek travel << transit
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Loqi ok, I added "[[transit]]" to the "See Also" section of /travel
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loqi.me edited /travel (+14) "tantek added "[[transit]]" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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tantek flight << transit
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Loqi ok, I added "[[transit]]" to the "See Also" section of /flight
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loqi.me edited /flight (+14) "tantek added "[[transit]]" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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tantek ok this needs fixing
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tantek aaronpk https://indieweb.org/transit
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tantek note two See Also sections
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tantek both created by Loqi :P
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aaronpk argh
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aaronpk oh hey
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aaronpk I left myself a comment!
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aaronpk # remove for new MW
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aaronpk flight << test
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Loqi ok, I added "[[test]]" to the "See Also" section of /flight
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loqi.me edited /flight (+11) "aaronpk added "[[test]]" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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tantek transit << test
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Loqi ok, I added "[[test]]" to the "See Also" section of /transit
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loqi.me edited /transit (+11) "tantek added "[[test]]" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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tantek yeah it only adds *one more* See Also section
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tantek then it adds subsequent see alsos to that second See Also section
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GWG I'm tempted to take some time away from IndieAuth and do weather. Trying to pick a project
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tantek that's the bug
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tantek what are you itches GWG?
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GWG Considering I'm snowed in, weather seems appropriat
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@veganstraightedge @j2h See also: https://indieauth.com /cc @aaronpk (twitter.com/_/status/949094677038247936)
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GWG tantek: I have many. But I'm trying to pick a smaller one to tackle
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GWG tantek: I've been very productive of late
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tantek I hear that. I was unable to even pick a smaller one for a 2018-01-01 challenge!
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[kevinmarks] I checked into every station on foursquare on one trip
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GWG tantek: I did the first major IndieAuth upgrade in 2 years.
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aaronpk Wait it still has the bug?
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aaronpk I just made a change that should even change the message in irc slightly
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aaronpk test << foo
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Loqi ok, I added "foo" to a new "See Also" section of /test
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loqi.me edited /test (+23) "aaronpk added "foo" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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aaronpk test << bar
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Loqi ok, I added "bar" to a new "See Also" section of /test
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loqi.me edited /test (+23) "aaronpk added "bar" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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aaronpk Hey
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aaronparecki.com edited /test (-23) (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /test (-23) (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /test (+23) "aaronpk added "foo" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /test (+6) "aaronpk added "foo" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /test (+6) "aaronpk added "bar" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /test (-5) (view diff)
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aaronpk test << foo
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Loqi ok, I added "foo" to a brand new "See Also" section of /test
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loqi.me edited /test (+23) "aaronpk added "foo" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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aaronpk test << bar
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Loqi ok, I added "bar" to a brand new "See Also" section of /test
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loqi.me edited /test (+23) "aaronpk added "bar" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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aaronpk I wonder if that's a caching thing
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tantek aaronpk lol your train post shows a flight path
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aaronpk it shows an abstract path :)
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tantek.com edited /transit (+247) "form of travel post, indieweb example train by aaronpk" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk oh? I thought it showed a great circle path (thus roughly approximating longer haul filghts)
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aaronpk nah that wouldn't actually look very curved between portland and SF
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aaronpk it just makes an abstract curve
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aaronpk here's LA->SF https://aaronparecki.com/2017/12/11/35/
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aaronpk actual flight path
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tantek train posts could show actual rail lines with little train segments like in Ticket to Ride ;)
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aaronpk that would be fun
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aaronpk no idea where to get that data
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tantek like http://nerdywithchildren.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/ticket1.jpg
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[kevinmarks] Google doesn't even do that and it has train data
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tantek aaronpk need that for your 2017 year in summary post - map of all your routes traveled :)
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aaronpk oh gosh yeah
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tantek (would make a cool aggregate view for travel archives by month, year etc.)
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aaronpk i'm due for a massive 10-year post this summer actually
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aaronpk I started tracking GPS in 2008
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tantek what is a train
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "train" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "train is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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tantek train is /transit
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /train (+20) "prompted by tantek and redirect added by tantek" (view diff)
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tantek what is bus
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "bus" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "bus is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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tantek bus is /transit
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /bus (+20) "prompted by tantek and redirect added by tantek" (view diff)
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tantek what is light rail
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "light rail" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "light rail is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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tantek light rail is /transit
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /light_rail (+20) "prompted by tantek and redirect added by tantek" (view diff)
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[kevinmarks] Hm, looks like Google does it for trains but not buses
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GWG There has to be a service in this people want.
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GWG Transit map drawer
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tantek GWG definitely
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aaronpk it's gonna be a bit of a project to consolidate my 10 years of logs into a single place. it's a bit fragmented right now since I went through so many iterations of how I stored it
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tantek clearly aaronpk needs it for his train posts
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tantek aaronpk sharing that history (iterations) would be valuable too!
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GWG I'm curious how it would work
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aaronpk yeah for sure
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loqi.me edited /test (+23) "aaronpk added "foo" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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aaronpk sure enough, it's a caching issue
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tantek ah, so if you wait long enough after the first See Also, then Loqi won't create the second one
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aaronpk yeah
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aaronpk I think I can fix it
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tantek well the hack is to request a made up query like ?Loqi_time=unixseconds
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tantek that busts the cache
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aaronpk i'm just adding a secret param that will skip the cache
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tantek even better
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loqi.me edited /test (+23) "aaronpk added "bar" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /test (+6) "aaronpk added "bar" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /test (+23) "aaronpk added "foo" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /test (+23) "aaronpk added "foo" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /test (+23) "aaronpk added "foo" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /test (+6) "aaronpk added "foo" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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aaronpk k fixed
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aaronpk sorry for all the noise
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aaronpk oh new idea
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aaronpk test << foo
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Loqi ok, I added "foo" to the "See Also" section of /test
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aaronpk "minor" edits if the change is made in this channel
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GWG Anyone have a preferred weather API?
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[eddie] I like the Dark Sky API
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[eddie] Although their snow info hasn’t been great so far this winter
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GWG I have my own weather station as well.
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bear i've always just used pyMETAR to query NOAA's api
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bear there is also https://openweathermap.org/api which i've used and it's open source friendly IIRC
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aaronpk I'm thinking about switching to dark sky but I use wunderground right now
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bear i'm wondering what data you get from those api's that a METAR report doesn't have
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GWG Now I'm looking for svg weather icons before I've built something to show them
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www.boffosocko.com created /Project_Jupyter (+21) "redirect" (view diff)
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www.boffosocko.com created /IPython (+499) "moved from ipython; fleshed out and added links" (view diff)
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www.boffosocko.com created /Jupyter (+479) "expand stub; link to project; see also; pagelogo; moved data from jupyter" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /prefetch (-28) "fix r" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /rel-prefetch (-31) "fix r" (view diff)
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[keithjgrant] date formatting in Go Templates is a nightmare
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dgold yes, it is
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dgold that standardised date thing is utter bullcrap, just use standardised codes already
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[keithjgrant] I don't even think it's possible to specify a time zone. I also can't figure out how to make it render a 12-hour time
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dgold oh, that I worked out
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dgold 03:04:05PM
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dgold for a tz you use 03:04:05PM -0700, or whatever you need
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dgold but its hopelessly obtuse
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[keithjgrant] I need to force it to render as EST
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[keithjgrant] Netlify builds my site, but their local time is UTC
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dgold you could ask in the hugo forums (if its hugo)
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[keithjgrant] But you just help me realize I had the wrong values in for my hour/minute, so that fixed my 12-hour issue. thanks 🙂
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[keithjgrant] yeah, Hugo. Just made a post on the forum
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sknebel https://golang.org/pkg/time/#Time.In is this maybe what you need?
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sknebel [keithjgrant]: ^^^
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[keithjgrant] looks promising. I'll have to see if the templates support that. Only a tiny subset of the full language is avaliable 😞
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dgold my long nightmare of the soul is over!
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sknebel ?
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dgold I added loads of additional parentheses to my script, and now I can repost & like posts via micropub on my site
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dgold repost & like _twitter_ tweets, I mean. It syndicates the like/repost to twitter.com
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ascraeus.org edited /nanopub (+7) (view diff)
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ascraeus.org edited /like (+415) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
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ascraeus.org edited /repost (-14) "/* Daniel Goldsmith */" (view diff)
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aaronpk !tell tantek, the ellipsize_to_word function seems to allow a trailing "(", is that an easy fix? Just noticed one of my notes was truncated as "Just pushed some updates to IndieNews! Notes like this one, (..."
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek hey Loqi
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Loqi tantek: aaronpk left you a message 1 hour, 1 minute ago: ellipsize_to_word function seems to allow a trailing "(", is that an easy fix? Just noticed one of my notes was truncated as "Just pushed some updates to IndieNews! Notes like this one, (..."
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tantek aaronpk pretty sure that was deliberate, to more strongly indicate that hey a whole parenthetical follows this!
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aaronpk oh interesting
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aaronpk it looks weird to me tho
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tantek well if you find a CMOS rule that says NOT to do it, I could change it. I did try to research existing ellipsing rules (which were scant) to implement them along with reasoning for additional special cases per-punctuation
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tantek.com edited /micro.blog (+158) "stub How to / How to POSSE" (view diff)
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Zegnat aaronpk++ for closing another flew of IndieAuth spec issues :D
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Loqi aaronpk has 100 karma in this channel (1524 overall)
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[keithjgrant] Yay! I got my timezone issue sorted. Netlify let me set the TZ environ variable to EST
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Loqi does a happy dance!
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aaronparecki.com edited /p3k (-5) "open graph tags done, also link to some other feature announcements" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /User:Aaronparecki.com (+85) "/* related talks */" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /User:Aaronparecki.com (+18) "/* to do */" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk want to document what minimal OGP you had to implement on /OGP#How_to ?
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tantek what is OGP
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Loqi The Open Graph protocol (OGP) is an open* standard developed by Facebook for annotating the primary subject of an HTML page via a set of custom <meta> tags in the document head for the purpose of Facebook showing link previews https://indieweb.org/ogp
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tantek similarly for Twitter Cards?
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tantek what are Twitter Cards
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Loqi Twitter Cards are Twitter's use of OGP and their own proprietary <meta> tags to provide link-preview information as part of tweets with links https://indieweb.org/Twitter_Cards
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tantek I think documenting that *minimum* would be very helpful in preventing people from wasting time over-adding all the crap
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tantek (context: https://aaronparecki.com/2018/01/05/10/rich-link-previews )
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Rich Link Previews for my Website on Facebook and Twitter
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aaronpk the interesting part is twitter documents a minimal example of adding twitter tags using facebook's as a fallback
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tantek of course, they want you to add their proprietary tags
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aaronpk they broke their fragment IDs but https://developer.twitter.com/en/docs/tweets/optimize-with-cards/guides/getting-started
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aaronpk "When using Open Graph protocol to describe data on a page, it is easy to generate a Twitter card without duplicating tags and data."
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tantek without *additionally* duplicating :P
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aaronparecki.com edited /The-Open-Graph-protocol (+695) "add minimal example tags" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /The-Open-Graph-protocol (+20) "/* See Also */" (view diff)
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tantek ok question, why do you need <meta property="og:title" content="Hello World" /> ? doesn't it get it from the <title> if you leave that out?
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[cleverdevil] https://github.com/mapkyca/php-ogp
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Loqi [mapkyca] php-ogp: Simple PHP Open Graph Protocol parser library
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aaronpk tantek: my <title> contains more than what og:title contains
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tantek second question, why do you need <meta property="og:url" content="http://example.com/post" /> ? doesn't it get it from the URL of the page that is being link-previewed?
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aaronpk often sites will include the site name in <title> (mine included)
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tantek true
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dgold had not realized that og: _requires_ an og:image for validation
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aaronpk and facebook explicitly does not want the site name in the title of the page
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aaronpk oops dgold it doens't, my bad
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dgold :(
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tantek ok so that's an argument for og:title. but why og:url?
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dgold because... its in the spec?
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aaronpk it should be the canonical URL of the post, without all the tracking params and stuff that end up in posts shared
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dgold og:url - The canonical URL of your object that will be used as its permanent ID in the graph
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tantek why do extra work? send extra bytes? if the implementation doesn't need them
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tantek that's what rel=canonical is for :p
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aaronpk hey I didn't make up the spec :P
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tantek but you are free to use a subset
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tantek that's the point
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tantek also by "the spec" you are implying that the docs are the spec, whereas in practice, "what facebook.com implements" is the spec
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aaronpk now I can't find where facebook said which tags were required
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tantek because it's not an "open" spec per se (they control it)
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tantek there you go, drop og:url and see what happens
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tantek I bet it still works
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aaronpk oh here http://ogp.me/
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dgold aaronpk: all I has is that
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tantek and if you really care, use the standard rel=canonical
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aaronpk "The four required properties for every page are"
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tantek and make them use it
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tantek aaronpk: yes you're citing a doc for a spec that has a single dominant implementation
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tantek which means the implementation becomes the practical spec
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tantek regardles of what docs say
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aaronpk tbh i'm way less concerned with including something as easy as the page URL vs the work I had to do to make a summary that looks good
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tantek it's about as DRY as possible
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tantek and minimizing proprietary markup
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tantek otherwise you end up down the rathole of Dublin Coreing all the things etc. and before you know it your <head> is bigger than your <body> :P
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schmarty weird. here on the matrix irc bridge i am not seeing everyone's updates. i don't see messages from tantek at the moment. :/
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aaronpk also it's not just facebook that implemented these tags, Slack and Twitter did too
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tantek also if the first image on the page is > 600x315 then you don't need og:image as that will automatically be picked up (I know this from my posts)
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tantek Slack and Twitter will implement whatever FB implements, not the spec
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tantek not the *documentation* that is
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aaronpk the logic required for me to tell whether the first image in the page is >600x315 is way more complicated than just including the meta tag
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tantek then the documentation eventually will reflect FB.com
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aaronparecki.com edited /Twitter_Cards (+165) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
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tantek the only use I can think of for og:image on a properly structured post is setting it to "" so nothing happens in cases where you don't want one
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tantek e.g. a high-resolution profile image in your h-card
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aaronpk I actually set the og:image of my review post to a totally separate image that is not in the main post which is a tiled composition of all the post's actual images
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tantek wat
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aaronpk https://aaronparecki.com/2018/01/05/10/image-1.jpg
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aaronpk because no single image in the post was representative of the whole post
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tantek why not include that at the top of your post as a u-featured image?
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aaronpk because it would be redundant :P
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dgold notes that og:image is a requirement, but og:author isn't even in the spec
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tantek no it's a thumbnail / summary!
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raretrack.uk edited /micro.blog (+212) "/* How to */ ping micro.blog from WP after a post" (view diff)
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tantek or is it possible we actually have a new use-case to document?
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tantek preview-image?
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tantek an image that may be a composite of various images in a blog post, suitable for use as a preview, but might not itself be visibly present in the full length blog post
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tantek which is unlike u-featured in that way
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aaronparecki.com edited /The-Open-Graph-protocol (+609) "/* Indieweb Examples */" (view diff)
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dgold "These are globally defined objects that just don't fit into a vertical but yet are broadly used and agreed upon."
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dgold whut?
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dgold what's a 'vertical'?
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aaronpk that http://ogp.me site smells like schema.org
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aaronpk better to stick to what facebook actually implements I think
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tantek exactly
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tantek ogp was a more minimal schema
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tantek then schema came along and had to gunk it up even worse
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aaronpk it seems like none of the fancy stuff in ogp ever got used. turns out the only thing that matters is if the tag can be used to enhance the display of it when people look at it
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aaronpk don't need any of these complicated og:type stuff, since in the end they just show a featured image and title/description for everything
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aaronpk twitter has gone a little farther with it and lets you make "player" cards that contain videos, but that's it
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dgold aaronpk: sending 'like' to micro.blog - is that a webmention-sending operation?
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aaronpk sending a like? not sure what you mean
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dgold oh, I saw the slack conversation with you & manton - that your site sent a 'like' as a full repost
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dgold https://microblogging.slack.com/archives/C3UH49H1N/p1515111825000184 & subsq
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aaronpk oh yeah. that was because I favorited one of manton's micro.blog posts
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aaronpk that sent a webmention from my favorite to micro.blog, and it pulled it in as a reply
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gRegorLove I didn't know FB explicitly doesn't want site name in the ogp
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gRegorLove Using https://developers.facebook.com/tools/debug/og/object/, FB seems to get the rel=canonical
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gRegorLove Ah, it even follows the rel=canonical as a redirect before it does the scrape.
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gRegorLove So yeah, og:url doesn't seem to add value.
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tantek and that's worth documenting in /OGP
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gRegorLove Doing so
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aaronpk gRegorLove++
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Loqi gregorlove has 38 karma in this channel (204 overall)
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Zegnat reads the og: duplication discussion
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gRegorLove Annoying that they *ignore* your explicit og:image if it's under 200x200
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aaronpk it makes sense tho
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Zegnat Ah, rel=canonical. I got annoyed by that one not too long ago because I couldn’t use it as my mf2 url property for the page.
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gRegorLove So maybe I'll drop it altogether since that's the only tag I'm using :)
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aaronpk not a lot of ways you can make https://aaronparecki.com/assets/badges/indieweb.png look good
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tantek gRegorLove++
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Loqi gregorlove has 39 karma in this channel (205 overall)
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aaronpk as a featured image
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Zegnat Needed to move HTML around, since <link rel="canonical" class="u-url"> isn’t valid in mf2.
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[eddie] Wow I uploaded Jekyll on my server to a minor version upgrade for a new config setting that I didn't even end up using but it cut my rebuild time from 20 minutes to 7 minutes!!
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[eddie] updated* not uploaded
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tantek Zegnat: huh? why?
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gRegorLove It might make sense on Facebook
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Zegnat because mf2 hates hidden data, so u- does not accept href-attribute on link elements.
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gRegorLove But I think if someone authors it, they should show it as-is.
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Zegnat I think I brought that up once before and was told that it was because of hidden data :P
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tantek Zegnat hmm I thought I relented on that due to enough requests
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tantek maybe that was rel=me?
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dgold [eddie]: 7 minutes?
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dgold how many pages?
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Zegnat It just means you have to make the page link to itself with an <a> element and give that the rel.
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dgold and, again, 7 minutes?!?
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Zegnat But I don’t always see a usecase for an actual clickable link to itself.
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[eddie] Lol 7 minutes is quick for me! 😉
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tantek Zegnat: mf2 parsing does parse <link> for rels: http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing#parse_a_document_for_microformats
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Loqi [Tantek Çelik] microformats2 parsing specification
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gregorlove.com edited /The-Open-Graph-protocol (-10) "/* gRegor Morrill */ update my usage" (view diff)
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Zegnat Yes, but it isn’t in the mf2
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[eddie] dgold: not sure how to check how many files because they are all in different folders
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Zegnat So you can’t use it as the url property of e.g. the page's h-entry
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tantek Zegnat: yeah you mean http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing#parsing_a_u-_property right?
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Loqi [Tantek Çelik] microformats2 parsing specification
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Zegnat Yes
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tantek Zegnat hmm: http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing-issues#link_elements_and_u-_parsing
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Loqi microformats2-parsing-issues
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gRegorLove tantek, what happens if og:image is under 600x315? Does it ignore those too?
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tantek gRegorLove: no idea
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aaronpk facebook claims it will just show up smaller if it's under 600x215
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dgold [eddie]: for comparison (not being proselytizer)
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aaronpk 315
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dgold [eddie]: hugo does 1,400 pages on my site in .5s
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gRegorLove Just checking because I couldn't find those resolutions on https://developers.facebook.com/docs/sharing/webmasters/#images
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Zegnat tantek, interesting. “RESOLVED at 2015-01-20 meetup. Make link consistent with a.” - but not in parsing spec?
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[eddie] Wow, that does seem pretty good. I have considered potentially moving to hugo at some point. I can't decide whether to do dynamic page rendering in node.js or hugo rendering. 0.5s IS pretty good
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aaronpk gRegorLove: it's in https://developers.facebook.com/docs/sharing/best-practices#images
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gRegorLove Ah, thanks!
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tantek Zegnat this is why I thought it was already there
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tantek that's what I remember agreeing to
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tantek but maybe my bad for failing to edit the spec accordingly!
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tantek or I can categorize it as one of the sources of "Note: This specification is only marked as a "Draft Specification" because of pending edits from resolved issues before 2016-06-20. "
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[eddie] dgold: It outputs 15,220 files
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tantek (from Status of http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing#change_control )
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Loqi [Tantek Çelik] microformats2 parsing specification
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tantek er http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing
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[eddie] dgold: some of those are feed pages where it has to loop through all my posts and filter out which ones it wants)
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Loqi [Tantek Çelik] microformats2 parsing specification
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dgold [eddie]: ditto
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tantek Zegnat we can take this to #microformats
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dgold [eddie]: each of my post-type pages has an individual atom feed
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[eddie] so let's see if hugo does 0.5s for 1,400, 14,000 should take 5s that definitely would be an improvement
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[eddie] dgold: are you doing full rebuilds or some type of incremental rebuild?
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dgold full rebuilds
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[eddie] oh wow that is good then. I'm doing full rebuilds as well but I've considered trying to switch to some type of incremental
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[eddie] If hugo is that fast it probably doesn't need incremental lol
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dgold [eddie]: as I say - not proselytizing, but 20m is insane
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[eddie] Oh yeah, I was getting very upset
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[eddie] 7 minutes feels like a race car!
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dgold I've seen those figures cited by some jekyll users in the past and thought they must have gigantic sites or something
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[eddie] Oh, quick question. Is hugo running on your computer or server?
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dgold server
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[eddie] how much ram?
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dgold 1G
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[eddie] Oh nice. I think I have 2G so no problems there
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[eddie] Yeah, I definitely might have to look into it. I'll wait until schmarty does the dive and finds any issues for me 😉 haha
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Loqi [eddie]: lol
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dgold [eddie]: if you need any details of my switch, i'd be happy to help
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[eddie] You used to be on Jekyll?
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dgold i was on pelican, but aiui the issues people find are similar
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[eddie] ohhhh. I guess by biggest question is on templates. I'm wondering if I'm going to have to change all my templates. Jekyll uses Liquid, not sure what Hugo uses
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dgold [eddie]: sarah soueidan wrote up her experience recently:
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dgold https://www.sarasoueidan.com/blog/jekyll-ghpages-to-hugo-netlify/
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dgold and there's a lot in there that I can empathise with in pelican->hugo
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[eddie] oh great! Thanks! I'll have to read that
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[eddie] Ahh Sara! Nailed it "waiting for the site to compile became a torturous, life-sucking process that I wanted to avoid at all costs."
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[eddie] and " Jekyll became way, way too slow. “Too slow” is actually an understatement."
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[eddie] lol
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[eddie] Thanks for your statistics dgold, I'll definitely have to add looking into hugo as a next step for me
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[eddie] Wow, there's a one line migration tool from jekyll to hugo. The real question.... will all my special jf2 properties kill it? 😆
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gregorlove.com created /link_preview (+26) "r" (view diff)
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[eddie] "Congratulations! 8 post(s) imported!" ... 😕
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dgold hey - remember I said not proselytising :-)
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dgold I wrote a (mad awful very bad) script to reformat all my posts
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[eddie] haha no worries 🙂 I just felt like I should try it if it was a one-liner
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dansup Edmunds is shutting down their Open API :(
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dansup was useful for decoding VINs and other vehicle information
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tantek what is Edmunds
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Edmunds" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Edmunds is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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tantek what is lazymention
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Loqi lazymention is a Node.js daemon written by AJ Jordan https://indieweb.org/lazymention
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tantek that needs a user-friendly dfn
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tantek like at least as good as https://strugee.net/blog/2017/12/announcing-lazymention-elegant-outbound-webmention-for-static-sites
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Loqi [AJ Jordan] Announcing lazymention: elegant outbound Webmention for static sites
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tantek.com edited /lazymention (+182) "make dfn say what it does for users, not what it is made of split up additional prose, see also" (view diff)
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tantek what is lazymention
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Loqi lazymention is an open source service you can run on a Node.js server to send Webmentions for static sites https://indieweb.org/lazymention
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tantek.com edited /lazymention (+1) "from" (view diff)
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tantek what is lazymention
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Loqi lazymention is an open source service you can run on a Node.js server to send Webmentions from static sites https://indieweb.org/lazymention
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tantek lazymention << https://strugee.net/blog/2017/12/announcing-lazymention-elegant-outbound-webmention-for-static-sites
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Loqi ok, I added "https://strugee.net/blog/2017/12/announcing-lazymention-elegant-outbound-webmention-for-static-sites" to the "See Also" section of /lazymention
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Loqi [AJ Jordan] Announcing lazymention: elegant outbound Webmention for static sites
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tantek what is emacs
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Loqi emacs is the extensible, customizable, self-documenting, real-time display editor https://indieweb.org/emacs
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tantek anyone want to try improving that? it doesn't sound very useful
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tantek like "display editor"? I always thought it was a text editor
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tantek.com edited /photography_policy (+50) "add indieweb relevance and current cultural use of photography / video" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /photo_policy (+31) "prompted by tantek and redirect added by tantek" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com created /recording_policy (+32) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /The-Open-Graph-protocol (+1739) "actually, in practice they're all optional, clarify why you might want to use each property instead of blindly following a spec" (view diff)
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tantek gRegorLove thanks for noting you use meta description successfully. incorporated that into the update ^^^
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gRegorLove Nice! I wasn't sure how to update that part of /OGP so put it off :)
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tantek.com edited /The-Open-Graph-protocol (+107) "simplify first part of dfn, add caveat about in practice" (view diff)
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tantek what is OGP
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Loqi The Open Graph protocol (OGP) is an open* standard developed and controlled by Facebook for expressing the primary subject of an HTML page in custom <meta> tags for the purpose of Facebook showing link previews; in practice only a couple are even sometimes necessary for that use-case, and you can use existing open standards instead https://indieweb.org/ogp
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tantek gRegorLove: feel free to review my edits ^^^ pretty sure I captured what we discussed in the channel today
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tantek yeah I didn't want a major update to go out that overstated how necessary FB controlled OGP was for even the FB linkpreview use-case
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tantek might be worth a blog post just to debunk all the SEO garbage articles out there
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gRegorLove Running a fresh scrape in https://developers.facebook.com/tools/debug/og/object/ of my URL, I see it picks up my 300x300 profile photo image for a post that doesn't have any other images, so it appears 600 isn't the minimum
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gRegorLove Tested with https://gregorlove.com/2017/12/indieweb-wordpress-feedback/
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Loqi [gRegor Morrill] IndieWeb WordPress Feedback
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aaronparecki.com edited /The-Open-Graph-protocol (+32) "/* How to set title */" (view diff)
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gRegorLove With a post with a larger photo (and which appears in source before my profile photo), it picked up the larger photo: https://gregorlove.com/2017/10/hello-san-diego/
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Loqi [gRegor Morrill] Hello, San Diego https://gregorlove.com/site/assets/files/4652/2017-10-08-san-diego.750x0-is.jpg
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tantek how wide were/are the two photos?
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gRegorLove So it would appear to be the first image that's > 200, if the error messages on the debugger is correct
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gRegorLove My profile photo is 300
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gRegorLove "og:image was not defined, could not be downloaded or was not big enough. Please define a chosen image using the og:image metatag, and use an image that's at least 200x200px and is accessible from Facebook. Image 'https://gregorlove.com/site/assets/files/4652/2017-10-08-san-diego.750x0-is.jpg' will be used instead. Consult http://developers.facebook.com/docs/sharing/webmasters/crawler for more troubleshooting tips."
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gRegorLove The second post, with the photo, is 750 wide
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aaronpk I can't find a citation for facebook's use of rel=canonical
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aaronpk "(which Facebook's own documentation states they support)" should be a link to that documentation
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tantek aaronpk it was in the discussion above I thought
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tantek that says they first follow rel=canonical before looking the og:
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gRegorLove The debugger states it when it follows a redirect.
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aaronpk I know you said that in chat, but I didn't see a link to docs
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gRegorLove "To find the object, these are the redirects we had to follow ... The following will be treated as a redirect by the crawler:
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gRegorLove A HTTP redirect
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gRegorLove A <link rel="canonical" href=".." /> tag
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gRegorLove A <meta property="og:url" content=".." /> tag
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gRegorLove The final URL, which we tried to extract metadata from is highlighted in bold"
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tantek ah, then update to according to their own debugger
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aaronpk can you screenshot that then?
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gRegorLove Yep!
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aaronpk good udpates to that page tho!
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gregorlove.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:facebook-open-graph-object-debugger-2018-01-05.PNG]]" https://indieweb.org/File:facebook-open-graph-object-debugger-2018-01-05.PNG"
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gregorlove.com edited /The-Open-Graph-protocol (+241) "/* How to set URL */ screenshot + details" (view diff)
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gRegorLove Ah, there we go: https://developers.facebook.com/docs/sharing/webmasters/crawler#canonical
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aaronpk nice I coudl not find that page for the life of me
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gRegorLove It's a maze
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gregorlove.com edited /The-Open-Graph-protocol (+79) "/* How to set URL */ docs link" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /The-Open-Graph-protocol (+10) "/* Required Properties */ be more explicit about documentation claim vs However in practice" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com created /rel=canonical (+27) "r" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com created /rel=alternate (+27) "r" (view diff)
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[kevinmarks] Hugo is very fast, and you can run it interactively locally while you are editing templates
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[kevinmarks] The templating is very powerful (and a bit complex to grasp)
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[kevinmarks] I ported lifewithalacrity.com to it, which has a huge number of posts
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gregorlove.com edited /rel-alternate (+163) "dfn" (view diff)
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Zegnat Loqi, +v me! :D
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tantek.com edited /The-Open-Graph-protocol (+15) "and controlled" (view diff)
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www.funwhilelost.com edited /User:Www.funwhilelost.com (+44) "/* Itches */" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /100DaysOfIndieWeb (+81) "update 24 days to december or, note IndieWeb Challenge mostly happened" (view diff)
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