#dev 2018-02-19

2018-02-19 UTC
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KartikPrabhu bridgy does not seem to fake URLs either
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[eddie] KartikPrabhu: Do you mean how to link to a Twitter fav from a post on your original site? Or something else?
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KartikPrabhu [eddie]: yes. I fav-ed a tweet and syndicated it via brdigy. But I want to add a syndication link to my original post on my site
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[eddie] Ohh hmmm tricky
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KartikPrabhu yeah
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[eddie] I think the syndication link is just the post that was favorited
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[cleverdevil] Do the syndication settings work for anyone in Together? I want to make sure its not just me where it doesn't work.
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KartikPrabhu no, that would imply that my post was syndicated to the tweet I liked which isn't correct
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KartikPrabhu I don't want to pull in responses to the original tweet by someone else
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[eddie] KartikPrabhu: Yeah that’s tricky. I don’t know of any other way to do that.
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[eddie] !tell snarfed: Any thought on this? https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/2018-02-18#t1518992789703200
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi [KartikPrabhu] anyone knwo how to indicate syndication links for a Twitter fav?
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KartikPrabhu [eddie]: for googleplus I think you can fake it somehow
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[eddie] [cleverdevil] I haven’t tried unfortionately
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[cleverdevil] Hmm... well, it looks like its broken for me, but I use Safari, and I am wondering if it maybe works for Chrome people.
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[eddie] KartikPrabhu: Ohhh, yeah, I’ve never seen of a way to do it with Twitter. That said, I might just not know
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KartikPrabhu oh well then!
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[cleverdevil] Confirmed, it was also broken in Chrome. Now fixed, and pushing up changes.
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[cleverdevil] Donezo.
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aaronpk There are no unique URLs for twitter favs in twitter so Bridgy makes up a fragment link off of the tweet that was favd
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aaronpk You could do the same
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mblaney KartikPrabhu: I add the tweet url as a syndication link so that bridgy can do back feed, but you're right, it doesn't have any meaning for u-like-of.
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mblaney it's just that they go through the same code as reposts and quote-tweets.
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: where did you find this fragment link?
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aaronpk I thought I remember the bridgy webmention links working that way?
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KartikPrabhu I couldn't find it in bridgy for twitter. I know it does that for G+
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[cleverdevil] !tell grantcodes pushed a whole bunch of fixes and improvements, also thinking we should settle on a domain name... confirm with me that you're good with `alltogethernow.io` and I'll buy it and then point the DNS wherever you'd like 🙂
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[cleverdevil] Was just thinking it might be fun to have a job that pushes my "On This Day" posts into a channel in Aperture every morning.
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[cleverdevil] Currently, I send them to myself via email, but reading them in Together would be much more pleasant.
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GWG What is an On This Day post?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "On This Day post" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "On This Day post is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[cleverdevil] What is On_This_Day?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "On_This_Day" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "On_This_Day is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[cleverdevil] Hmm...
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KartikPrabhu what is on this day?
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Loqi on this day is a feature on some silos and indieweb sites which show posts published on the current (typically Gregorian) day of the year in previous years; commons sites tend to show more general historical events that occurred on that same day https://indieweb.org/on_this_day
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[eddie] Ohhhh [cleverdevil], that’s brilliant!
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[cleverdevil] Working on it now 🙂
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[eddie] I’m gonna have to build a similar script for my site
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GWG [cleverdevil]: Can I see one of these posts?
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[cleverdevil] https://cleverdevil.io/onthisday/
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[cleverdevil] (Its slow because Known is terrible at searching)
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[cleverdevil] Got it working!
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[cleverdevil] So great 🙂
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[cleverdevil] Now, I need to turn it into a lambda function.
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[cleverdevil] Done. This is so cool 🙂
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aaronpk That’s a great idea
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aaronpk I’m pretty thrilled that people are able to do creative things with these building blocks
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KartikPrabhu yup
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KartikPrabhu cleverdevil++
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Loqi cleverdevil has 11 karma in this channel (61 overall)
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[cleverdevil] And thank *you* for building those building blocks 🙂
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk++ for building building blocks
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Loqi aaronpk has 118 karma in this channel (1569 overall)
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tantek looking at /watch posts to see if there is a simple text equivalent design
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KartikPrabhu is writing about more SVG weirdness in browsers
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tantek.com edited /watch (+150) "/* Emoji for checkins and syndication */ add a few more emojis for other watching possibilities" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu and here it is https://kartikprabhu.com/articles/use-svg-javascript
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Loqi [Kartik Prabhu] <use> SVG in Javascript
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tantek.com edited /watch (+640) "stub why, how / how to publish" (view diff)
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tantek it appears current watch examples are a mix of watch posts and watch lists
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tantek what is Shazam
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Loqi Shazam is a music (and television) bookmarking and discovery silo service that operates by listening to ambient sound via an app to identify the content to enable both identification and bookmarking https://indieweb.org/Shazam
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eddiehinkle.com edited /watch (+10) "/* Eddie Hinkle */ updated info" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu oops broke my webmention endpoint probably due to mf2py updates!
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KartikPrabhu and broke my whole site
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tantek.com edited /watch (+942) "analyze chrisaldrich's, eddie's, grant's watch posts, move lists to Related watch list examples" (view diff)
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tantek I like the ticket emoji 🎫 for having seen a movie in a theater with a ticket
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KartikPrabhu wow! seriously. updating html5lib worked with mf2py but broke another library (Bleach) and brought down my whole site
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KartikPrabhu admintax--
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Loqi admintax has -1 karma
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[eddie] !tell aaronpk,cleverdevil (and anyone else) I’m thinking about adding a tab bar at the bottom of Indigenous. It would move the “new post” button to the bottom center of the toolbar, with the far left tab being the channels, the second tab being notifications and the two tabs on the right being customizable to whatever channel you want. Idea stolen from Tweetbot.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[cleverdevil] Okay, for my last tinkering of the day, I made a Micropub Spoon for Hammerspoon so I can hit a hotkey on my macOS machine and it pops up a dialog, then I click "publish," and it makes it so!
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[cleverdevil] I like that idea, eddie.
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[eddie] [cleverdevil] Hammerspoon posts a Micropub entry? Or does something else. The “makes it so” part was confusing :)
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tantek what is Hammerspoon
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Hammerspoon" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Hammerspoon is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[cleverdevil] [eddie] Hammerspoon posts it.
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tantek what is Spoon
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Spoon" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Spoon is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[cleverdevil] Well, my code does.
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[cleverdevil] Inside of Hammerspoon.
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[eddie] Nice!
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[cleverdevil] Hammerspoon is a tool for powerful automation of macOS that lets users perform actions using Lua scripts, including deep integration with the operating system. - https://www.hammerspoon.org
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /Hammerspoon (+218) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by [cleverdevil]" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu what is Lua?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Lua" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Lua is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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KartikPrabhu <rabbithole alert>
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[cleverdevil] Haha
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Loqi ahahaha
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KartikPrabhu gives Loqi a h
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Loqi steps on the h
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[cleverdevil] I am throwing my windows around the screen all day using hotkeys. Hammerspoon *rocks*.
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tantek wow Adblocker Ultimate blocks *60* things on an IMDB permalink page for a film!
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tantek insane
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tantek makes me not want to link to IMDB
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tantek wikipedia it is then
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KartikPrabhu tantek: would you recommend Adblocker Ultimate?
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tantek I've been using it with FF and it seems pretty good at blocking bad things
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KartikPrabhu hmm ok will give it a shot
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tantek I also use Privacy Badger
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tantek which lets me more easily block cookies from specific 3rd party (sub)domains, or just block them completely (no loading)
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KartikPrabhu hmm
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tantek and I run NOSCRIPT add-on also
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tantek I like to minimize the bandwidth tax of so many useless external resources that do nothing for me the user
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tantek.com edited /watch (+362) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ add self with watch example I posted" (view diff)
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tantek well that wasn't an itch, except I wanted to post about seeing Black Panther, and wanted to recommended it, so I figured attempting a /watch post prototype as a note was the right thing to do
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KartikPrabhu "wanted to post" counts as an itch :)
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tantek :)
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tantek.com edited /syndication-link-use-cases (+306) "category syndication, dfn, flatten headings, Publication verification" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /watch (+78) "/* Emoji for checkins and syndication */ 💻" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /watch (+172) "/* Tantek */ +1 example" (view diff)
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tantek couple of examples is a good start. movie in the theater, movie on mac mini / projector, from Netflix
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cweiske Zegnat, I purposefully archived aaronpk's open tab info to make people think about the data they publish on the net
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Loqi cweiske: jeremycherfas left you a message 1 week, 2 days ago: should I uninstall my older version of shpub before getting the new one?
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[kevinmarks] If I want more than one php dev environment on my laptop, what's the best way of keeping them separate? (I'm helping out a couple of different people with their websites)
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cweiske environment as in different php versions?
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Zegnat Depends how much of a different environment you need. You should be able to run different versions of PHP side-by-side already. If you need a webserver to go with them, something like nginx should allow you to define a different php-fpm instance per hostname
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[kevinmarks] Different php versions, different libs.
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[kevinmarks] They both have old school php hosting with no source control, so I want to mirror their setups accurately before I change things.
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cweiske libs are managed in the project's vendor directory anyway
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cweiske so they are separate, right?
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[kevinmarks] Also MySQL versions
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cweiske use docker
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aaronpk I run multiple versions of php on my laptop and server now. Most of the package managers let you install them side by side now
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Loqi aaronpk: [eddie] left you a message 9 hours, 20 minutes ago: (and anyone else) I’m thinking about adding a tab bar at the bottom of Indigenous. It would move the “new post” button to the bottom center of the toolbar, with the far left tab being the channels, the second tab being notifications and the two tabs on the right being customizable to whatever channel you want. Idea stolen from Tweetbot.
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aaronpk and then yeah in nginx or Apache you just point the server config at the different php backend
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aaronpk [eddie] I like that idea! It'll make it feel like a "real" app!
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[kevinmarks] Can I install 2 MySQL versions and just tweak config to switch ports?
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aaronpk you have to configure a different data directory for each as well
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aaronpk https://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.7/en/multiple-servers.html
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schmarty silo << https://www.eff.org/the-story-of-wael-abbas
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Loqi ok, I added "https://www.eff.org/the-story-of-wael-abbas" to the "See Also" section of /silo
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aaronpk whee the twitter api is ✨amazing✨
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aaronpk 🙄
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[kevinmarks] What did they do now?
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aaronpk the streaming api and rest api return quite different data
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aaronpk mostly around how they handle >140 char tweets
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snarfed huh streaming doesn't handle extended tweets?
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Loqi snarfed: [eddie] left you a message 15 hours, 58 minutes ago: Any thought on this? https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/2018-02-18#t1518992789703200
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aaronpk it does, but completely differently
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snarfed ugh
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aaronpk the "new" api representation of the tweet ends up in a top-level property called "extended_tweet"
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aaronpk and that's where you'll find all the things like "extended_entities"
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aaronpk it basically lets consumers treat the streaming api as if it never changed and always still returns <140 char tweets if they don't dive into that property
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snarfed the rest api is the same way, right?
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snarfed not sure about extended_entities, but extended_tweet afaik yes
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aaronpk no the rest api doesn't include "extended_tweet", it just includes the new properties on the top-level object directly
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snarfed i could have sworn rest api also did extended_tweet
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aaronpk i'll double check
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snarfed no matter
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snarfed ohhhh i'm thinking ?tweet_mode=extended
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snarfed never mind
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aaronpk confirmed
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aaronpk yeah with tweet_mode=extended then you get the "full_text" and "extended_entities" properties on the main tweet object
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snarfed basically required these days
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aaronpk but they didn't do that query string param for the streaming API, so they just shoved the new extended tweet into a new property
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aaronpk here's an example of what the streaming api returns https://github.com/aaronpk/XRay/blob/master/tests/data/api.twitter.com/streaming-tweet-truncated-with-photo.json
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aaronpk hm, anyone know how to tell travis to only run one deploy job? I have it testing on multiple PHP versions and i'm pretty sure each version is deploying to appengine when it finishes
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aaronpk ooh I think I found it https://docs.travis-ci.com/user/deployment#Examples-of-Conditional-Deployment
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aaronpk worked 🎉
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snarfed so i started looking at feed reader APIs last night to see how they'd bridge to microsub
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aaronpk naturally
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snarfed heh
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snarfed feedly, newsblur, feedbin, inoreader, miniflux all look doable
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snarfed doubt i'd actually build it but i might write it up. might inspire someone else to build it, a la silo.pub :P
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snarfed it'd definitely be another (orthogonal!) microsub server implementation
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sknebel I might tackle Inoreader
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snarfed !
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snarfed sknebel: yes! https://www.inoreader.com/developers/
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aaronpk nice
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Zegnat snarfed, I was looking at that too, for Feedbin.
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Zegnat So who knows, maybe we all just need to come together on this ;)
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Zegnat Oh, snarfed, if you are still around I was meaning to ask: do you do any sort of caching on Instagram Atom or just always refetch and parse on every hit?
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snarfed Zegnat: definitely cached! 5m i think
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Zegnat Hmm, I must be reading over it in your Python code then. I’m not very good at untangling Python.
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Zegnat may or may not be halfway having his own Instagram Atom implementation in PHP done
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snarfed ah 10m for instagram since it rate limits so heavily on scraping
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snarfed ahaha
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Loqi awesome
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snarfed Zegnat: https://github.com/snarfed/instagram-atom/blob/master/cookie.py#L22
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Zegnat No idea what that means in the grand scheme of things... Does that mean get() will only execute if its response isn’t in memcache?
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snarfed Zegnat: right. it's https://github.com/snarfed/webutil/blob/master/handlers.py#L91-L118
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Zegnat quickly scans an article called “Primer on Python Decorators”
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snarfed heh
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snarfed why build your own, out of curiosity? totally ok, but you have to scrape IG, and with a cookie to get your feed, so it's especially annoying
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Zegnat Because I do not want to figure out hosting a Python app, and I do not want to entrust my IG session cookie to you and/or Google and/or my feed reader.
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Zegnat Nothing personal, obviously, just felt like a thing I wanted to try.
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snarfed very good reason!
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snarfed alternatively you could just deploy it to your own app engine app
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snarfed oh nm, doesn't fully address your concerns
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Zegnat That would address 2 out of 3 (if I hardcoded my session id).
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snarfed encrypting the cookie param could be worthwhile...but your feed reader still gets the feed *contents*, so maybe not that much benefit
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Zegnat Theoretically, couldn’t the cookie be used to post comments and such? There is a difference between a read-only feed and my actual browsing session.
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snarfed yup. no scopes in session cookies. although the thread model is getting weak fast here, so keep paying attention to your tradeoffs in time and effort vs protecting some hypothetical threat
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snarfed but if it's a fun project, go for it!
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snarfed (*threat model)
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KartikPrabhu "HierarchyRequestError: Node cannot be inserted at the specified point in the hierarchy" its not everyday that you meet a javascript error for the first time
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aaronpk so far the general approach has been to have good fallback support
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KartikPrabhu ask forgiveness not premission?
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aaronpk so if you were going to post a like, you'd always include the "like-of" property for servers that recognize it, and you could also include plaintext content such as "liked a post (link)" for servers that dont
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aaronpk I think that approach will go a long way without introducing a lot of complexity that comes from any sort of capability discovery
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aaronpk that said, we should document the cases where that sort of fallback may not make sense
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dgold !tell [eddie] can I ask how/where in Indigenous you're doing the parsing from microsub data to tableview?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: that might fail with my site where I post a "reason" for liking
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KartikPrabhu but I don't micropub yet so...
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aaronpk well a "like" post doesnt have any content by definition
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KartikPrabhu yes, I skirt these pesky definitions all the time :P
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dgold i am lost in a world of pain from non-standardised information :)
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dgold KartikPrabhu: wouldn't that be a 'bookmark'?
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dgold Something you're marking with a rationale seems more than just a 'like'
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KartikPrabhu dgold: no my intent is to "like" it not "bookmark it for later"
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KartikPrabhu sometime I put the response-context in there because I don't do response-context yet eg: https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/like-find-your-own-way
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Loqi [Kartik Prabhu] “If those were the only two stories about writers that you know, you’d never start. Find your own way.”
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KartikPrabhu and here is a like with reason https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/like-how-not-to-adapt-a-movie
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Loqi [Kartik Prabhu] great analysis of why most remakes are ghostless shells
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KartikPrabhu in any case, I am a renegade here so feel free to ignore
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[manton] I guess my concern about the "like" fallback is when I see a UI like what is currently in Together... No one would expect that a "thumbs up" icon will create a new blog post. Seems cleaner to just hide that button.
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aaronpk that's fair
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KartikPrabhu aah interesting. because "thumbsup" buttons traditionally convey an action on the same page/site ?
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[manton] I totally get not wanting to make it more complicated, of course. But it seems like some way to adapt these UIs for different kinds of servers is worth exploring.
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aaronpk ui-driven reasons for capabilty discovery are far better than technical reasons
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[manton] Yeah, I'm only thinking about the user experience here. (And I know we've discussed this a couple of times... This conversation is refreshing my memory.)
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aaronpk the one discovery piece we have right now is for clients to find the list of syndication targets to show to the user, so there is at least a little bit of precedent for it
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aaronpk oh and media endpoint too
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aaronpk and we've discussed having the ability for the server to return a list of tags as well
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[manton] I also proposed a way to discover alternate blogs to post to: https://gist.github.com/manton/52e0015f87fcf50c687a0c64e392fc37
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aaronpk oh yeah, i'm going to have to look at that again now that Aperture is farther along, cause that ties in to my plans for it as well
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aaronpk here's some other brainstorming https://indieweb.org/Micropub-brainstorming#Query_for_other_information
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Zegnat KartikPrabhu, I would have to check, I think I may also have done likes with content
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aaronpk go ahead and add a section there for this. maybe something like discovering which vocabulary properties are supported
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Zegnat Yeah, here is an example of a like-of that is also a note: https://licit.li/58f38fc9664cb
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www.boffosocko.com edited /follow (+1948) "Follow post on Twitter; Why section: bookmark functionality; Following as recommendation section; Follow Friday" (view diff)
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manton.org edited /Micropub-brainstorming (+698) "Added idea for declaring supported Micropub properties." (view diff)
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[eddie] aaronpk: Regarding marking timeline posts as read. Are all properties part of the post body? (action, channel, method and entry) or are action & channel part of the url’s query and the method and entry are part of the post body?
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dgold eddie!
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dgold :-)
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dgold How/where are you parsing the websub json data in Indigenous?
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dgold (if you don't mind me asking)
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[eddie] hey dgold: Swift uses a Codable inheritance to convert JSON to structs/classes. So the TimelineAPIResponse: https://github.com/EdwardHinkle/indigenous-ios/blob/develop/Microsub/TimelineApiResponse.swift and the Jf2Post class: https://github.com/EdwardHinkle/indigenous-ios/blob/develop/mf2/Jf2Post.swift
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aaronpk [eddie]: everything is post body for post requests
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[eddie] Hmm, I did do it right then
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[eddie] I’ll have to look deeper. I got a “error”:“bad_request”,“error_description”:“This operation is not supported” so I thought maybe I did it wrong
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aaronpk odd
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[eddie] but it must just be a bug in my code since that’s the proper way to do it
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aaronpk that means it didn't recognize the action parameter
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[eddie] ahh good to know. I did try to be clever with that
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[eddie] That probably backfired
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dgold [cleverdevil]++ for together. am breathless with amaze
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Loqi cleverdevil has 12 karma in this channel (62 overall)
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[cleverdevil] Thanks! But the lions share of the glory should go to [grantcodes] who has done much of the work. I just had the idea and now am finally contributing some code.
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[cleverdevil] Oh, and to [aaron_pk] for getting Microsub off the ground.
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dgold grantcodes++ then :)
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Loqi grantcodes has 10 karma in this channel (13 overall)
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[cleverdevil] It has been super fun to be adding features and fixing bugs these past few days 😀
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[cleverdevil] !tell eddie I was thinking a really cool use case for Indigenous would be for replacing Apple’s “Reading List” by having it publish to a “Read Later” channel in Aperture via a share sheet.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[eddie] [cleverdevil] https://github.com/EdwardHinkle/indigenous-ios/issues/100 😉
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Loqi [EdwardHinkle] #100 Add a “Save for Later” feature
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[cleverdevil] 🚗
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[manton] In addition to the draft on the wiki under Micropub-brainstorming, filed an issue on Indigenous for any iOS-specific discussion: https://github.com/EdwardHinkle/indigenous-ios/issues/120
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Loqi [manton] #120 Update like, repost, and bookmark UI based on Micropub server support
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[eddie] !tell [cleverdevil] I think my default would be to have the “Save for Later” option to be one of the options inside of the “Micropub” Share Sheet app. Are you envisioning having a different icon in the Share Sheet for “Saving” posts for later?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[cleverdevil] Nope, that makes perfect sense to me, eddie.
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[cleverdevil] Though, it does add an extra tap.
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[eddie] It does add the extra tap. I think the challenge is that a separate icon would require 1) Discovery, it would have to be activated within the share sheet in addition to the Micropub icon.
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[eddie] 2) Configuration. There is no way to optionally add a Share extension that I know of. So the icon would ALWAYS be available, even if someone doesn’t have a “Save for Later” micropub endpoint configured. Which means, if they clicked on it and didn’t have it configured they would just get an error “Please open Indigenous and configure your Saved micropub endpoint”.
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[eddie] I’m open to either way, I think the configuration piece of #2 makes me want to put it inside of Micropub icon
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[eddie] That way, when it’s configured it just becomes a new option alongside “Like, reply, save for later”
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[eddie] In fact, I’ll probably start it that way (easiest to program) and if we run into it being strange, let me know 🙂
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[eddie] The beauty of Betas. haha
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Loqi awesome
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tantek lol regarding issue trackers did you see / do you remember this?
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tantek what is issue tracker
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Loqi An issue tracker is a place to post and discuss issues like bugs & feature requests https://indieweb.org/issue_tracker
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tantek hmm do we really only have two examples? https://indieweb.org/issue#IndieWeb_Examples
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tantek I thought Eddie and/or [miklb] were/are posting issues (or just likes of repos?) to their own site and POSSEing to GitHub using Bridgy
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tantek [eddie] that is
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[eddie] I am, I didn’t add myself there yet, but I will
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tantek eddie++
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Loqi eddie has 24 karma in this channel (42 overall)
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tantek ok that's worth adding as a topic then
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tantek maybe that'll give me the push to ship. have had to do a bunch of interesting rethinking of my code
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[eddie] In fact, because you mentioned me in a post, it’s now in my microsub notifications to remind me later. So thanks for mentioning me by name 😉 Yay for lazy reminders
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Loqi woot
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tantek.com edited /watch (+841) "note emergent conventions for watch posts, encouragement to continue experimenting" (view diff)
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tantek wait I did? where did I mention you?
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[eddie] https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/2018-02-19/1519079128925100
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Loqi [tantek] [eddie] that is
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tantek heh
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[eddie] I have a bot scanning the chat logs and sending me pings whenever my name gets mentioned 😉
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tantek neat!
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[eddie] technically the one before it too because I lowercase everything to Eddie works as well
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[eddie] Ahhh, aaronpk, I figured this out: https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/2018-02-19/1519069741595700
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Loqi [[eddie]] I’ll have to look deeper. I got a “error”:“bad_request”,“error_description”:“This operation is not supported” so I thought maybe I did it wrong
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[eddie] I was encoding the body as JSON 🤦
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aaronpk oops!
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[eddie] haha yeah
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Loqi rofl