#dev 2018-02-21

2018-02-21 UTC
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aaronparecki.com edited /Let's_Encrypt (+77) "/* See Also */" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /authorization-endpoint (+192) "/* Using an Authorization Service */" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Category:IndieAuth (+16) "/* Services and Source Code */ +selfauth" (view diff)
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /User:Kaja.sknebel.net/upcoming-hwcs (-308) "update from /Events" (view diff)
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[kevinmarks] Wow https://github.com/maxchehab/CSS-Keylogging
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Loqi [maxchehab] CSS-Keylogging: Chrome extension and Express server that exploits keylogging abilities of CSS.
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KartikPrabhu oh boy!
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KartikPrabhu that is a very clever hack!
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KartikPrabhu the backend is irrelevant; you could do this with any JS+CSS and an external server
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GWG I need to finish my current Indieweb project this week. I don't want to continue it into next week.
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[markmhendrickso @GWG which one is it?
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GWG It's a redesign of my Post UI. The last major one before the hammer falls. According to stats, the code has over 200 active installations. I always worry about, even though I'm doing it to improve my experience, that I'll get one of them upset
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[markmhendrickso @GWG Cool, if you want a second set of eyes, I'd be happy to give you my design feedback
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GWG I'm the WordPress person in the community, so this is inside WordPress. You are welcome to look though
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GWG I've asked some of the users active in the chat. https://github.com/dshanske/indieweb-post-kinds
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Loqi [dshanske] indieweb-post-kinds: adds support for responding to and interacting with other sites using the standards developed by IndieWebCamp
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[markmhendrickso I see under screenshots how the post appears to look now, for at least a like and video: https://github.com/dshanske/indieweb-post-kinds#screenshots. Is it this user-facing UI that you're redesigning, and if so, with what objectives?
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Loqi [dshanske] indieweb-post-kinds: adds support for responding to and interacting with other sites using the standards developed by the Indieweb Community
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GWG The post UI.
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GWG Where you create posts.
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GWG But the complaint was people didn't understand what the options meant
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[markmhendrickso Ah I see, the creation
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[markmhendrickso Well since I haven't seen the existing UI, if you want to get my hot take on the new one, I can tell you if I'm confused =P
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snarfed current status: trying to find an ActivityStreams 1 object type or verb for pull request 😂
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[eddie] Hmmmm granary GitHub-flavored? :face_with_raised_eyebrow:
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[kevinmarks] Lol. I assume "checkin" doesn't work.
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[miklb] is there review?
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[kevinmarks] Probably "submit", then there are accept and reject verbs for the project owner
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[kevinmarks] GWG by the hammer falling do you mean Gutenberg blocks?
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jonathanprozzi.net edited /User:Jonathanprozzi.net (+463) (view diff)
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[eddie] [cleverdevil] thinking about the “Read Later” functionality. Initially I thought when using a desktop I could do something like add the Microsub Saved channel’s Micropub endpoint and token to Omnibear or some other Micropub client.
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[eddie] But I realized that would require the client to make the post be the existing page, not a “repost” or a “like”
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[eddie] Which is not standard practice.
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[eddie] So my thought is, creating a random url like: https://indigenous.abode.pub/savelater/jg648vffh75787?url=
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[eddie] That way when not using an iOS device you could essentially have a bookmarklet that will feed the current url into the system and then Indigenous’ server can parse the page you selected (if possible) and save the post into The Microsub channel
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dgold godsdammit. why are dates so hard.
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tantek blame Gregor
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Loqi tantek: snarfed left you a message 22 hours, 52 minutes ago: thanks for the nudge on bridgy's github auth prompt. i was reluctant because i didn't want to move the repo, but realized i could just use the org for the app. prompt now says "Authorize bridgy"! https://snarfed.org/github_bridgy_org_auth.png
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tantek whoa very cool!
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tantek snarfed++
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Loqi snarfed has 41 karma in this channel (350 overall)
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tantek !tell snarfed should I file separate (new) issues for handling img and hyperlink (a href) tags for Bridgy Publish to GitHub?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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dgold looking over my Aperture 'feed'; I have date strings as: "2018-02-17 23:56:33", "2017-02-18T09:15:00-05:00", "2018-02-18"
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dgold [eddie]: your dates on your site are all a year out
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dgold oh, wait, no, sorry, I'm just seeing your old posts first for $reasons
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[cleverdevil] That sounds interesting [eddie]
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tantek :)
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tantek re: #indieweb - will do snarfed. I suppose that's a good opportunity for me to test new issue posting :)
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GWG kevinmarks, yes Gutenberg
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Zegnat [eddie], what about using /repost for the read later? Not sure if any Micropub clients support it, but I could see a client parsing the current page to extract the main content and posting that to an endpoint as a repost.
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tantek snarfed, from reading https://brid.gy/about#github-issue-comment are reacji to GH issues/comments supported?
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snarfed tantek: not yet! should be soon though
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Loqi snarfed: tantek left you a message 1 hour, 29 minutes ago: should I file separate (new) issues for handling img and hyperlink (a href) tags for Bridgy Publish to GitHub?
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tantek (if so I'd expect an explicit whitelist of which reacji as emoji since GH only supports a few)
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snarfed yup
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tantek ok
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snarfed it's actually a minor interesting UX question. if a user intends to post a reaction, but typos it, a naive implementation will post it as a comment instead of returning an error. maybe that's ok? not sure what the right UX is.
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tantek I'd say a little bit of forgiveness, with a bit of future extensibility
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tantek on the forgiveness side, if someone doesn't get the exact right emoji, but it's close enough in meaning, then translate it. e.g. any of the heart emojis should probably work as a "heart"
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snarfed definitely
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tantek any of the laughing emojis for laugh, etc. since GitHub gives them text meanings (on hover), that's probably sufficient guidance
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tantek but for any other emoji, perhaps an error saying GH only supports ( insert list ) reactions currently, instead of posting a single-emoji comment
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snarfed interesting, ok
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tantek they can still work around that if they really want to by posting emoji(space)
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tantek (if they really want a "one emoji comment")
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snarfed ok!
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[eddie] Yeah that matches up with what my expectations would be
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[cleverdevil] If anyone is interested, I just tossed up my Micropub integration for Hammerspoon: https://github.com/cleverdevil/Micropub.spoon
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[cleverdevil] Its very basic, but it works 🙂
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Loqi [cleverdevil] Micropub.spoon: Hammerspoon spoon for Micropub publishing
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sknebel what is Hammerspoon?
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Loqi Hammerspoon is a tool for powerful automation of macOS that lets users perform actions using Lua scripts, including deep integration with the operating system https://indieweb.org/Hammerspoon
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snarfed [cleverdevil]++
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Loqi cleverdevil has 15 karma in this channel (66 overall)
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snarfed shipped bridgy publish github reactions. feel free to try! https://brid.gy/about#github-reaction
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sknebel Hammerspoon << https://github.com/cleverdevil/Micropub.spoon
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Loqi ok, I added "https://github.com/cleverdevil/Micropub.spoon" to a brand new "See Also" section of /Hammerspoon
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loqi.me edited /Hammerspoon (+65) "sknebel added "https://github.com/cleverdevil/Micropub.spoon" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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Loqi [cleverdevil] Micropub.spoon: Hammerspoon spoon for Micropub publishing
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www.svenknebel.de edited /Hammerspoon (+2) "linkify" (view diff)
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[eddie] snarfed++
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Loqi snarfed has 42 karma in this channel (351 overall)
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[eddie] Looks like I need to work on my reacji support in Indigenous
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[eddie] I like what Omnibear does where it gives you a specific set of normal reactions but allows you to customize them
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[keithjgrant] Secret hack: you don't have to put an emoji in the Omnibear reacji options. You can put a short phrase or something, too
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loqi.me created /donation (+157) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /donation (+30) "tantek added "[[pledge]]" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /donation (+22) "tantek added "[[open collective]]" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /donation (+496) "add a few posts as examples" (view diff)
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www.boffosocko.com created /acquisition (+4248) "preliminary definition; indieweb and silo examples;" (view diff)
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tantek whoa
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tantek Venmo has a culture of posting transactions publicly not necessarily acquisitions
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tantek (in fact, rarely acquisitions, mostly paid by for acts of consumption (food) or services (cab/carshare rides))
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tantek acquisition << donation
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Loqi ok, I added "[[donation]]" to the "See Also" section of /acquisition
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tantek donation << acquisition
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Loqi ok, I added "[[acquisition]]" to the "See Also" section of /donation
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@jobsonnentag Feel free to ignore. Just testing webmentions. http://obejay.blot.im/just-a-little-test (twitter.com/_/status/966417754206232576)
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[eddie] !tell Zegnat: my concern about using repost for “save later”. Most existing Micropub clients are just going to send the url under repost-of. But then Aperture doesn’t currently parse extra urls in posts. So my “save later” feed would end up with the repost url but no content (no title, content, etc) from the initial page I wanted to read later
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[eddie] So I would either have to build a Micropub client that would parse the page and put an embedded h-entry into repost-of. Which would be more time consuming than a web service that can do essentially that with a bookmarklet
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[cleverdevil] [eddie] you could just use one of the existing hosted services to do the conversion (https://xray.p3k.io, https://mf2py.herokuapp.com).
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[eddie] Definitely planning on parsing the page via xray
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[eddie] But the question is what application sends the url to xray?
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[eddie] It would either need to be a Micropub browser extension or a bookmarklet that pings a web service
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[cleverdevil] Couldn't the share sheet do it?
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[eddie] On iOS
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[cleverdevil] macOS share sheets work too.
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[eddie] 😩
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[eddie] Haha
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Loqi nice
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[cleverdevil] IIRC, most of the code is the same, too.
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[eddie] Yeah except the UI
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[eddie] That’s really the hard part, is working with the UI on the Mac
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[eddie] It might be easy once I do it
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[eddie] I just haven’t done it yet. Haha
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[cleverdevil] Ah, gotcha.
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[eddie] I definitely want to get there. I’m also just thinking about like my work computer. I can’t install a Mac app on my work computer. But a bookmarklet would allow me to save stuff to read later
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[eddie] I think for your primary iOS and Mac the share sheet is definitely the way to go
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[eddie] But one thing I love about Instapaper is that I can get data in there 100 different ways
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[eddie] And my goal is to insta-quit-paper this year
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@swentel Configured webmention and pingback using http://webmention.io - now let those backlinks come in :) Next up, local micro blog and integrating https://brid.gy/ #IndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/966424736153591808)
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tantek reads https://blog.twitter.com/developer/en_us/topics/tips/2018/automation-and-the-use-of-multiple-accounts.html
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tantek this is implications for Known: "Do not (and do not allow your users to) simultaneously post identical or substantially similar content to multiple accounts." - and perhaps any UI (Quill?) that allows you to check multiple POSSE destinations that are on the same silo
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tantek this *has implications
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tantek also this: "Do not (and do not allow your users to) simultaneously perform actions such as Likes, Retweets, or follows from multiple accounts."
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aaronpk *ahem* tweetdeck
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tantek "Users of TweetDeck will no longer be able to select multiple accounts through which to perform an action such as Tweeting, Retweeting, liking, or following."
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tantek they're on it
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[cleverdevil] I wonder if this is actually a good use case for Quill, [eddie]?
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[cleverdevil] Quill could have a feature for sending a URL to a Micropub endpoint for "read later."
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[cleverdevil] Then, it could just be a bookmarklet, and we could send things to a special channel in Aperture.
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[cleverdevil] (^^ [aaron_pk] I'm creating work for you haha)
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Loqi [cleverdevil]: lol
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aaronpk 🎉
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[eddie] Haha.
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tantek I think these are good changes
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tantek I hope this means they will be getting serious about abusive bots
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[eddie] Yeah, [cleverdevil]. that would definitely be do-able
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jkphl.is uploaded /File:hwcnue-2018-02-21.jpg "Sebastian, Björn and Joschi at the Homebrew Website Club Nuremberg https://indieweb.org/File:hwcnue-2018-02-21.jpg"
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tantek does Bridgy let you auth multiple Twitter accounts to post (POSSE) to?
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tantek aaronpk, does Quill let you check multiple Twitter POSSE destinations for posts
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tantek ?
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aaronpk quill doesnt know if a syndication destination is twitter or not, but it does allow choosing multiple destinations
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tantek ok so it's not designed explicitly for it but it allows it
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tantek you may want to be careful about that
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aaronpk im trying to remember if ive ever actually checked multiple destinations from quill
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tantek (i.e. change Twitter accounts in Quill (if more than one) from checkboxes to a radio button group)
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aaronpk ah sometimes i posse to twitter and facebook at the same time, but actually i've been doing that less and less
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tantek I only do that for photos+videos
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[kevinmarks] Known does make it easy to auth and then post to multiple twitter accounts
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[miklb] what API key is Known using? Each person have to register their own?
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[cleverdevil] Yes, you register your own.
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[cleverdevil] You used to be able to sign up for a service that the corporate entity managed for a fee.
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[cleverdevil] But, I am pretty sure that's dead.
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[miklb] So if you abuse that, then you get shut down. I still don’t see the problem myself
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tantek the problem is accidental "abuse"
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tantek that is, the assumption that, hey if the friendly UI "lets" me do it, it must be ok
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tantek if it is as simple as checking multiple checkboxes
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tantek because why would the UI let you do something that could result in loss of account access?
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[kevinmarks] So hootsuite will need changing
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tantek [kevinmarks]: where is that UI in Known?
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tantek oh wow major Twitter API changes - might impact a bunch of us: https://twittercommunity.com/t/policy-clarification-automated-replies-and-mentions/94444
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[miklb] tantek, my argument is, anyone who has set up multiple Twitter accounts and signed up for an API key isn’t accidentally doing anything if they are blasting the same content to all the accounts at the same time. I’m sure I’m wrong, but I doubt they are going to go after someone with 2 accounts for some reason though. They are looking to crack down on heavy automation to a lot of accounts at once.
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tantek it's too easy for a user to accidentally check two checkboxes when they meant to switch from one to another
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tantek I agree the risk is low(er) for such cases
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[miklb] sure. And I highly doubt that will ever register with Twitter
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tantek I still feel there is a sense of responsibility with the UI designer/developer
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tantek to change those checkboxes to radiobuttons
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[miklb] unless it’s every time with a high degree of frequency
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[miklb] Or, just where ever they send people to get an API key to make them aware of what that really entails.
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loqi.me edited /Trello (+125) "tantek added "public Trello board: [https://trello.com/b/myf7rKwV/twitter-developer-platform-roadmap Twitter Developer Platform Roadmap]" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /Twitter-API (+104) "tantek added "[https://trello.com/b/myf7rKwV/twitter-developer-platform-roadmap Twitter Developer Platform Roadmap]" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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[miklb] But as a community, I would encourage people to **not** do that in the first place
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[kevinmarks] Screenshots posted, tantek
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tantek hmm - I see only one Twitter account there
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[kevinmarks] I can't remember the password for my other ones
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[cleverdevil] Also, that looks different to me than what I see in Known.
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[cleverdevil] Is that one of the hosted ones with the service that WithKnown the business was offering?
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[kevinmarks] That is hosted known, yes
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[miklb] so yeah, I’d love to read a blog post on how posting the same content at the same time to multiple Twitter accounts is somehow good and related to indieweb because I’m from the other camp. 🙂
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aaronpk i dont think there is a reason to *post* to multiple twitter accounts, but I have favorited or RT'd content from multiple twitter accounts which i feel okay about
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aaronpk like when i post somethinbg about indieauth from my @aaronpk account and then retweet it from @indie_auth and @oauth_2
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aaronpk because its relevant to both
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tantek aaronpk - that's also forbidden (by automation) in the new terms
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tantek (multiple accounts liking / retweeting the same thing automatically)
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tantek doing it manually appears to be ok though?
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tantek but yeah, if Quill lets you check multiple Twitter destinations for a like/retweet - then that's also a problem
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[kevinmarks] They said retweeting was OK
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tantek no
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tantek see my quote above
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tantek will cite
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tantek https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/2018-02-21/1519250175937900
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Loqi [tantek] also this: "Do not (and do not allow your users to) simultaneously perform actions such as Likes, Retweets, or follows from multiple accounts."
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[kevinmarks] “As an alternative to posting identical content, you can Retweet content from one account from the other accounts you wish to share that post from. This should only be done from a small number of distinct accounts that you directly control.”
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[kevinmarks] So I think the indieweb retweet mechanism is OK.
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tantek and the very next sentence: "Please note that bulk, aggressive, or very high-volume automated Retweeting is not permitted under the Automation Rules, and may be subject to enforcement actions."
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tantek which seems to align with [miklb]'s suspicions that "a few accounts" is likely ok
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[kevinmarks] Yes.
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[miklb] sounds like a fair trade off to me. I’m a small social media manager for a brand & have manage 8 Twitter accounts. I can post an original tweet on one and automate the other 7 as RTs. But I can’t connect 100s of accounts and bulk RT
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tantek note the "March 23, 2018" compliance date
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KartikPrabhu is this some misguided action to control fake/bot accounts?
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tantek I wonder if they already have the tools, and are identifying abusers already, or if they're giving themselves until March 23, 2018 to build and ready their tools
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tantek KartikPrabhu: why misguided?
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KartikPrabhu because there might be legitimate reasons to have multple accounts and post from them
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tantek I'm more on [miklb]'s side there
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tantek I suspect not, until such legitimate reasons are made explicit
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KartikPrabhu hmm
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aaronpk yeah it sounds like they're okay with small numbers of RTs from brand accounts is fine
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tantek for duplicate posting / liking / retweeting that is
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tantek KartikPrabhu: to be clear " to have multple accounts and post from them" is fine for manual work, though duplicate content is still discouraged
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tantek and my use-case is different content for each of those accounts
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[miklb] yes, definitely I’d like to clarify that having multiple accounts act independently I don’t think should be an issue. It is once you start automating all of the activity that I do not have issues with rules on duplication
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tantek but I'm really wondering if Twitter is readying all their tools to drop the hammer hard on March 23
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tantek [miklb] same same
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tantek or maybe March 24
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tantek puts an item in his calendar to see if anything "changes" on Twitter itself then
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tantek 30 days until Twitter apps and services must be in compliance with Twitter’s updated policy on automation and the use of mulitiple accounts: https://blog.twitter.com/developer/en_us/topics/tips/2018/automation-and-the-use-of-multiple-accounts.html
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Loqi I added a countdown scheduled for 2018-03-23 3:59pm PDT (#6267)
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tantek whoa that's in DST
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KartikPrabhu does this affect Bridgy?
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KartikPrabhu should just read backlog
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tantek not sure if Bridgy allows authing with multiple Twitter accounts
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tantek lol on https://brid.gy/about : "[Their API](https://developer.github.com/v3/reactions/)" and "[Notifications API](https://developer.github.com/v3/activity/notifications/)"
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tantek markdownpollution--
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Loqi markdownpollution has -1 karma
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[kevinmarks] Vote for indieauth? https://twitter.com/seldo/status/966428968835432449
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@seldo If you've been asking when you can use GitHub/Google/etc. to sign in to npm, you should answer this poll: https://twitter.com/npmjs/status/966412463876050944 (twitter.com/_/status/966428968835432449)
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tantek definitely
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sknebel done, included link to spec
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loqi.me created /Kubernetes (+117) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by bear" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu what is Kuberbetes
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Kuberbetes" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Kuberbetes is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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KartikPrabhu what is Kubernetes
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Loqi Kubernetes is a container orchestration environment used to manage container environments https://indieweb.org/Kubernetes
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loqi.me created /Helm (+143) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by bear" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu no idea what that means ^^
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loqi.me edited /Kubernetes (+42) "bear added "https://kubernetes.io/" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /Helm (+36) "bear added "https://helm.sh/" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: then keep asking what is questions!
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tantek like
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tantek what is a container
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "container" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "container is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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www.svenknebel.de edited /oEmbed (-317) "add link to article about mf2 proxy" (view diff)
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www.svenknebel.de edited /oEmbed (+406) "fix deleted section (?!)" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /Container (+173) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by bear" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /Google_Container_Engine (+30) "bear added "kubernetes" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /Google_Container_Engine (+40) "bear added "https://www.docker.com/what-container" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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bear didn't realize it was being updated here
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bear container is more than GCE tho
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bear.im edited /Google_Container_Engine (+20) "fix see also" (view diff)