#dev 2018-02-22

2018-02-22 UTC
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bear oh poo - how do I do a lowercase redirect
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bear.im created /container (+223) "Created page with "{{stub}} '''<dfn>Container</dfn>''' is a application management tool used to bundle the application, configuration and operating system into a single self-contained bundle...."" (view diff)
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bear.im created /kubernetes (+159) "Created page with "{{stub}} '''<dfn>Kubernetes</dfn>''' is a container orchestration environment used to manage container environments. == See Also == * https://kubernetes.io/"" (view diff)
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bear.im created /helm (+179) "Created page with "{{stub}} '''<dfn>Helm</dfn>''' is a tool to manage the kubernetes configuration files for continuous integration and deploy within kubernetes. == See Also == * https://helm..."" (view diff)
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bear fixed redirects
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snarfed (re multiple twitter accounts, bridgy definitely supports it)
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tantek hmm - what do you think of the news snarfed ?
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snarfed not much, i think you all covered it
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tantek lol
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snarfed opinions are optional :P
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@royscholten Kristof has his webmentions up and running: http://zpr.io/nXzvX So me posting a link to his blog post should generate a mention somewhere: http://zpr.io/nXzvx (twitter.com/_/status/966475461906837504)
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tantek ^^^ seeing people that I've never heard of post about getting #indieweb things working amongst themselves is pretty cool (and evidence of it not just being an echo chamber)
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willnorris.com edited /code-of-conduct (+83) "Google's Open Source Community Guidelines is based on the IndieWeb CoC" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /wish (+97) "prompted by GWG and dfn added by GWG" (view diff)
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tantek willnorris++
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Loqi willnorris has 1 karma in this channel (21 overall)
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tantek.com edited /code-of-conduct (-38) "Similar Codes of Conduct - since all examples are based on IW CoC, note that explicitly instead of as exceptions" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Open_Source_Bridge (+41) "subheads for previous years talks" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Open_Source_Bridge (+1058) "expand dfn, relevance to indieweb, why, past years" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /there_to_do_at_OSBridge (+35) "prompted by GWG and redirect added by tantek" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Open_Source_Bridge (+159) "/* Past */ stub, please add" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Open_Source_Bridge (+101) "/* Past */ 2011" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Open_Source_Bridge (+585) "/* Past */ add my osbridge talks" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /acquisition (+433) "add self with a couple of examples, found a 2016-02 post for a rhiaro acquisition as a good enough at least since, lowercase generic red see also" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /donating (+21) "prompted by tantek and redirect added by tantek" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /acquisition (+8) "linky donating" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /issue (+292) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ add self!" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /KVIrc (+76) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /KVIrc (+2) "linkify ('… is <url>' pattern)" (view diff)
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tantek and it looks like I broke my Recent Articles box
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tantek well I'll have to take a look at that
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aaronpk oops crap, silo.pub started prepending the twitter username again
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aaronpk i must not have sent a PR for that
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aaronpk fixed. will deal with a PR later
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /User:Kaja.sknebel.net/upcoming-hwcs (-413) "update from /Events" (view diff)
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@scott_gruber I just about got webmentions working on my site. Some success sending a mention from my page to a friend’s page. To do: display my icon and test receiving a webmention #IndieWeb http://bit.ly/2CbmKZB to @ChrisAldrich’s page http://bit.ly/2ENjVPO (twitter.com/_/status/966586059399217153)
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@scott_gruber Trying out webmentions on my site. Please help me test by liking this tweet. Thx! http://bit.ly/2CbmKZB (twitter.com/_/status/966591200210792448)
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Zegnat Hmm. I wonder if Micropub clients can do something about the Twitter policy change. But I guess not.
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Loqi Zegnat: [eddie] left you a message 12 hours, 23 minutes ago: my concern about using repost for “save later”. Most existing Micropub clients are just going to send the url under repost-of. But then Aperture doesn’t currently parse extra urls in posts. So my “save later” feed would end up with the repost url but no content (no title, content, etc) from the initial page I wanted to read later
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rhiaro.co.uk edited /acquisition () "(-711) /* Rhiaro */" (view diff)
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rhiaro.co.uk edited /acquisition (+48) "Link vocab docs" (view diff)
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Zegnat !tell [eddie] I actually didn’t check what current Micropub clients send for repost posts. I actually expected nested h-cits, but that expectation might have been wrong!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[gerwitz] Hello, IndieWeb… I’m asking [manton] to use webmentions to inform my site that content from it has been syndicated.
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[gerwitz] Syndication is not quite “mention” so I’m curious if anyone things this is [in]appropriate
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[manton] Repeating what I said in the Micro.blog Slack... The main issue I can think of is that the Webmention would probably create a comment in WordPress (for example) that had the same content as your original post, since it's kind of like you linking to yourself. To look good, I think the receiving code would need to display it differently.
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sknebel We are talking about micro.blog following the feeds and creating syndicated copies?
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sknebel I agree with Manton that it'd be odd as a comment
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sknebel Bridgy gives the link in return to the webmention triggering it and the sending code can then handle that, but general micro.blog syndication doesn't have that
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sknebel Since syndication links are a property if a post, micro.blog could make a micropub request editing the post, but I don't think there is prior art for that and it's kind of bad giving out full ability to post to the blog
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sknebel </rambling>
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sknebel Although I guess you have to be prepared to get webmentions from syndicated copies anyways, since you can't stop them from being sent by someone
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[gerwitz] I’m in shock this isn’t already a “thing” … certainly others have been annoyed by syndication targets that don’t return a URL?
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[gerwitz] (My content updates are async, so I *like* the microblog passive syndication. I just want to be informed of the resulting location)
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[kevinmarks] I'm a bit ocnfused - do you want something like bridgy, where replies to the syndicated copy show up on the original?
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[gerwitz] nope, not replies
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[gerwitz] the URL of the syndicated copy itself.
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[gerwitz] e.g. to offer “to comment on this, visit <syndication-1> or <syndication-2>”
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[gerwitz] and because I’m a crusty old enterprise geek and want a trail to follow if I update or delete a resource.
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[kevinmarks] xfn << working cache of the xfn site via internet archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130202010341id_/http://gmpg.org/xfn/
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Loqi ok, I added "working cache of the xfn site via internet archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130202010341id_/http://gmpg.org/xfn/" to the "See Also" section of /XFN
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[eddie] I think there are potentially two different issues from your original question on micro.blog [gerwitz]. I believe one issue is you want to be able to respond from your site to someone whose post url is NOT a micro.blog post URL. The other issue is you want to allow people to find your micro.blog post from your site if they want to reply to you. Does that sound accurate from your initial request on micro.blog?
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[gerwitz] Not the former. (I was only diagnosing the existing webmentions behavior.)
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[gerwitz] But the latter, exactly.
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[eddie] Ohhh gotcha.
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[gerwitz] …and also, eventually, other syndication targets.
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[eddie] Passive syndication is definitely a new area in the IndieWeb. Most syndication has been done either through Micropub forwarding or Webmentions
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[eddie] Both of which respond with the syndicated url
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[eddie] So I think there definitely must be a solution, the challenge will be thinking through how passive syndication works and the least obtrusive way to integrate that both for people adding support for it AND for not interfering with existing expected behavior.
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[eddie] I think the two most obvious solutions (which have already both been mentioned above) is 1: Adding rel=“canonical” to the micro.blog page on the link to the original post. Then sending a webmention. The expectation would then be if a webmention is received with the target url being part of a rel=canonical link, then it is considered a “syndication notification”
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[eddie] 2: Micropub Update, this would mean micro.blog the hosted service holds an access token to your website with “update” scope. Whenever it parses a feed and creates a new post, it would send a micropub updated request adding the syndication value containing the URL of the micro.blog copy (example: https://www.w3.org/TR/micropub/#add)
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[eddie] The downfall of #1 is that every existing webmention implementation might have to be adjusted (affects existing behavior)
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[eddie] The downfall of #2 is that micro.blog holds a token that can edit any post on your entire site AND your micropub endpoint has to support both JSON posting AND the update ability, which not a lot of sites support
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[eddie] It’ll be good as more IndieWeb veterans hop on throughout the day read this conversation and provide their input because the dangers we have to balance are making the bar too high for people to support versus messing with existing functionality 🙂
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@scott_gruber Reading through the @w3c Webmentions spec over morning coffee. https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/ (twitter.com/_/status/966709478195212290)
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@scott_gruber Webmention Rocks! is a validator to help test Webmention endpoints in a variety of ways. https://webmention.rocks/ (twitter.com/_/status/966710429362765824)
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aaronpk i kind of like [eddie]'s description of #1 there
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aaronpk the only trick is it would be surprising to most people to get a webmention from their syndicated copy right now, so maybe it could be an opt-in feature
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aaronpk it does feel like the least obtrusive option though
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aaronpk i've been wanting to set up an indieweb aggregator for a while now, where it crawls everyone's site listed on /irc-people and publishes a new feed from everyone's sites any time they mention indieweb keywords. so that is a sort of automatic syndication as well.
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aaronpk this mechanism of linking to the canonical with rel=canonical then sending a webmention feels appropriate for that as well, especially since rel=canonical is already a thing
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sknebel Yes, and any syndication can already send a mention of it links back
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sknebel Like, I could go through people's tweets and send mentions through their bridgy equivalent
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[kevinmarks] interesting: https://github.com/ampproject/amphtml/issues/13597
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Loqi [ldstevens] #13597 Transparency and the AMP Project
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Zegnat There is https://indieweb.org/original-post-discovery - did anyone look if that could just apply to the micro.blog case?
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Zegnat If I get a webmention and I parse the page the webmention is from, do original post discovery, if it turns out it is my own post take action accordingly?
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@nxD4n vs rel=me #indieauth #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/966720716518412288)
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[eddie] That’s true, that would probably work: “in the h-entry that represents the POSSE copy, look for a link with “u-url” and “u-uid” - use that href as the original post URL.”
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[eddie] The only issue is most webmentions currently would generate a comment
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[eddie] Would we then say if a post matches the original post discovery algorithm, it should be considered a syndicated copy and not be used as a response?
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[eddie] It does seem to match up with what we were just discussing because what we discussed would be step #3 of the original post discovery algorithim
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sknebel Sounds like a solution. Display would be a question (I'd probably limit them showing up to approved sources, so people can't randomly create the impression on my site that I syndicated to them
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Zegnat Lots of people are alreadyd filtering out likes and reposts, some even do content parsing to filter out reacji. If you are already running the mf2 parser, you can easily implement parts of the original post discovery alg
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sknebel Yes
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Zegnat So I am not sure saying that people display most of their webmentions as comments is true.
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sknebel And syndicated copies wouldn't be replies
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sknebel But just mentions if unrecognized
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[eddie] Ohhhh that’s true.
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Zegnat And since link relations are parsed as part of an mf2 parser, for the first two checks, you can rely on the mf2 parsing you are (maybe) already doing. No need to implement your own HTML parsing there.
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Zegnat Lots of discussion still on going on that discovery alg though, not sure how mature it is or if tantek was thinking of converting it to a W3C Note like Post Type Discovery. But something to keep in mind :)
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[eddie] We could at least follow the first couple of steps (check for u-url/u-uid and rel=canonical because those are pretty flawless
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[eddie] [manton] How does that general direction of this sound to you. Opt-in Webmentions to avoid throwing Webmentions at people that might not be ready for this kind?
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aaronpk with rel=canonical?
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[eddie] And basically just making sure the micro.blog url is either an entry with u-url or has rel=canonical on the link
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[eddie] Actually we’re set! http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmicro.blog%2FEddieHinkle%2F352720
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Loqi [EddieHinkle] Current Status: Downloading all my posts from Facebook…
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[eddie] Really just needs to send a webmention
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[eddie] Unless you feel strongly about rel=canonical over h-entry with u-url/u-uid, aaronpk?
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aaronpk i need to think about this, because i feel like this is related to another issue
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[eddie] ahh gotcha
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aaronpk oh yeah, how does your site find the micro.blog URL after it gets the webmention about the syndicated copy?
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aaronpk i guess the source URL of the webmention?
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[eddie] Yeah, source=https://micro.blog/EddieHinkle/352720 target=https://eddiehinkle.com/2018/02/20/10/note/
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Loqi [EddieHinkle] Current Status: Downloading all my posts from Facebook…
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[eddie] Then h-entry’s url=target: https://xray.eddiehinkle.com/parse?url=https://micro.blog/EddieHinkle/352720
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[manton] Catching up on this discussion. I like where it's going. And yeah, all Micro.blog conversation links have u-url. Happy to add canonical too, but maybe it's not necessary.
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aaronpk where's that in-reply-to url coming form?
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[eddie] Haha, I’m literally in the middle of a GitHub issue about it 🙂
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Loqi hahahaha
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[eddie] I think it’s because normally this view is for conversations, so typically the posts that appear here are replies
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aaronpk i'm just trying to remember the other issues i've had with trying to reply to things from micro.blog
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[eddie] The only thing I’ve run into are initial posts that aren’t hosted by micro.blog
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[eddie] errr I take that back.
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[eddie] It looks like my replies to Stephen Hackett’s posts didn’t go through
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[eddie] so it looks like any replies to an initial post don’t work
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aaronpk oh, i think it's when i find something from the micro.blog timeline and the URL is a canonical URL and then I can't get my reply syndicated to micro.blog because their site doesn't link to their micro.blog URL
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[eddie] correct
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[manton] The weird thing to understand about Micro.blog conversation links: it shows the same thread for any URL that links to the same conversation, but depending on the post ID in the URL, it changes the markup to apply h-entry/etc. to the post being linked to.
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[manton] That way parsing the page when you get a Webmention works, even if each reply doesn't strictly have it's "own" page.
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[eddie] That’s a good solution. The other one is fragment ids, but selectively adding h-entry works too
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[manton] Yeah. It would make more sense in the current implementation if the page visually changed to highlight the linked post, which I want to do.
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[eddie] Oh yeah! That’s nice
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[eddie] So as far as replies to micro.blog, a cross-posted reply (original post on aaronpk’s site, reply post on my site, attempting to syndicate reply to micro.blog) is on GitHub here: https://github.com/microdotblog/issues/issues/75
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Loqi [EdwardHinkle] #75 Adding support for cross-site replies
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[eddie] A reply to a micro.blog hosted post (original post is on a micro.blog site, reply post on my site, attempting to syndicate reply into the system) is on GitHub here: https://github.com/microdotblog/issues/issues/77
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Loqi [EdwardHinkle] #77 Reply not working on micro.blog hosted initial post
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[eddie] As those are two different issues to overcome
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[eddie] So far, I haven’t had any issues with replies to replies
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gRegorLove May be too obscure to document this, but just came across javascript in some older blog posts to embed Yahoo's Media Player, which is now dead. http://yahoomediaplayer.wikia.com/wiki/Quick_Start
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gRegorLove And I linked to an mp3 in my dropbox, which I guess doesn't work now.
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gRegorLove what is dropbox?
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Loqi Dropbox is a file hosting silo that provides js;dr URLs for the files hosted there that display just file name and a spinner unless you load some number of scripts from various domains https://indieweb.org/Dropbox
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gRegorLove Hm, it is in the "Public" folder and worked before. Guess they changed/broke URLs at some point. It shows "Only you" in Dropbox now, and an option to create a link.
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sknebel They removed public folders a while ago
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gRegorLove Ah, yep https://www.dropbox.com/help/files-folders/public-folder
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www.boffosocko.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:Ownership UI for GoodReads books.PNG]]" https://indieweb.org/File:Ownership UI for GoodReads books.PNG"
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www.boffosocko.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:Acquisition indication on GoodReads.PNG]]" https://indieweb.org/File:Acquisition indication on GoodReads.PNG"
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www.boffosocko.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:GoodReads Acquisition post.PNG]]" https://indieweb.org/File:GoodReads Acquisition post.PNG"
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www.boffosocko.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:Amazon acquisition.PNG]]" https://indieweb.org/File:Amazon acquisition.PNG"
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[eddie] A GitHub issue was created from the content of the Webmentions for Syndication Notifications: https://github.com/microdotblog/issues/issues/79
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Loqi [EdwardHinkle] #79 Notify original post of syndication
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dgold reading [eddie]'s issues on micro.blog; you can syndicate to m.blog?
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dgold _how_?
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[eddie] dgold: Well passive syndication
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[eddie] it reads feeds
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dgold ah, ack.
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dgold I thought from the context of some of your comments that there was some method of obtaining a syndicated-to url from m.b directly
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[eddie] Well that’s what we’re trying to do
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[eddie] So the idea is since with passive syndication you don’t have a direct response, we had to figure out how to get the syndicate-to url back into our sites
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dgold Yes, I see that now with your most recent two issues
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[eddie] syndicated-to*
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[eddie] Yeah, so that’s the goal
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[eddie] For my site m.b is like syndication because I actually created an internal syndication target that when selected adds the post to my feed that m.b reads
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[eddie] But me (and everyone else) is still missing the piece of having the syndicated link on our pages
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[miklb] I think I’m going to be moving to a similar model [eddie]
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[eddie] miklb I would definitely recommend it. I love how it’s been working for me
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[eddie] It allows me to not spam my m.b feed when I have a lot of watch posts or read posts
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[eddie] But important ones (like Starting or Finishing a book or an exciting TV episode) I can still post
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[miklb] nods
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[eddie] In fact, I currently store a u-syndicated property on the post with the uid= my micro.blog url. This allows until I get the actual syndicated url back per above discussion, people can see the post is syndicated to micro.blog and at the very least get to the m.b timeline (see the globe on https://eddiehinkle.com/2018/02/22/4/note/)
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Loqi [Eddie Hinkle] I built my first bot a year ago today, I’d definitely love to work on more bots but haven’t had the right project to work on yet.
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /User:Kaja.sknebel.net/upcoming-hwcs (+726) "update from /Events" (view diff)
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www.boffosocko.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:Venmo privacy.PNG]]" https://indieweb.org/File:Venmo privacy.PNG"
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www.boffosocko.com created /purchase (+24) "redirect to acquisition" (view diff)
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www.boffosocko.com edited /acquisition (+2885) "Goodreads example; Amazon example; Venmo example; fixed wish redlink; Anomalily links; Chris Aldrich examples; other minor tweaks" (view diff)
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www.boffosocko.com created /🛍️ (+25) "redirect to acquisition" (view diff)
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www.boffosocko.com edited /posts (+30) "acquisition" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /alfred (+184) "prompted by [eddie] and dfn added by [eddie]" (view diff)
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eddiehinkle.com edited /alfred (+339) "Add IndieWeb examples" (view diff)
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www.boffosocko.com edited /wish (+1642) "emojicon; additional notes; indieweb examples with Post Kinds" (view diff)
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www.boffosocko.com created /🎋 (+17) "redirect to wish" (view diff)
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www.boffosocko.com edited /posts (+70) "wish; donation stub" (view diff)
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www.boffosocko.com edited /donation (+1639) "Chris Aldrich example, Twitter, GivingTuesday," (view diff)
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@scott_gruber @bengo @w3c I’m trying to implement webmentions on my blog built with @grabaperch cms. (twitter.com/_/status/966792238356299776)
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[miklb] https://slack.github.com
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[miklb] ^new
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[miklb] if an owner of the IW repo wanted to add that application that would be swell
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aaronpk i would have to test how that works with the IRC bridge first
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[miklb] wouldn’t need to subscribe to any repos, just authorize the app
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[miklb] no big deal. There’s currently an issue open on it in the integration repo