#dev 2018-03-20

2018-03-20 UTC
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loqi.me created /100_days (+30) "prompted by tantek and redirect added by tantek" (view diff)
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tantek hey I'm curious what people think of https://www.eff.org/dnt-policy and the implication for indieweb services
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tantek there's a bunch of implementation requirements in there
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tantek and wondering who (if anyone) has done it
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tantek e.g. 2.a requires dumping logs after 10 days
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tantek bear are you familiar with EFF's dnt-policy? opinions?
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tantek what is DNT
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Loqi Do Not Track (also known as DNT) is a technology and policy proposal that enables users to opt out of tracking by websites they do not visit, including analytics services, advertising networks, and social platforms https://indieweb.org/DNT
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tantek DNT << https://www.eff.org/dnt-policy
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Loqi ok, I added "https://www.eff.org/dnt-policy" to the "See Also" section of /Do_Not_Track
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tantek related: https://github.com/EFForg/privacybadger/pull/1832
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Loqi [strugee] #1832 Add webmention.io to the yellowlist
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (+333) "URLs for iterating on RSVPs, bit of posts vs lists cleanup" (view diff)
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[miklb] !tell aaronpk is the code you use to auto syndicate GitHub/Twitter links public by chance? Looking for inspiration on where to start with doing that with WordPress.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk hm no it's not
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Loqi aaronpk: [miklb] left you a message 4 minutes ago: is the code you use to auto syndicate GitHub/Twitter links public by chance? Looking for inspiration on where to start with doing that with WordPress.
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aaronpk first it expands the reply context, then it looks at the URL and syndicated URL of the post in the reply context and checks if any of the URLs match a known pattern like twitter.com/statuses/_/_
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tantek [miklb] do you mean POSSE reply threading?
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[miklb] so I’m on the right track. I can just check against the url stored in the post meta against the services I’d want to auto-syndicate likes & reposts
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aaronpk oh that is what I assumed he was asking abot
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[miklb] no, if I micropub a like of a Twitter or GitHub url, then auto-syndicate that to the silo. Same for Twitter with reposts
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tantek ah, POSSEing of responses in genearl
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aaronpk oh yeah, same idea
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aaronpk yeah I just do url matching
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aaronpk the trick is expanding the reply context first in case the thing you're replying to is someone's indie URL which was also syndicated
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aaronpk the simple version is to just pattern match on the URL you're replying to directly. the next step is checking whether the thing you're replying to was also syndicated to a silo you POSSE to
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[miklb] well, with replies, the WP bridgy plugin provides a syndication target. But I haven’t really found a micropub client that supports targets for likes and reposts.
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[miklb] ah
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aaronpk yeah I don't think you'll see any clients do that really, because "likes" and "reposts" tend to be single-button actions where there isn't any room for an extra UI step to choose where to syndicate it
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[miklb] sure. But that’s just a thing that’s slowing me down from POSSE more likes and reposts
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[miklb] biggest itch you could say
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aaronpk yep same, which is why I wrote that code!
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[miklb] 🙂
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tantek I believe I am doing something similar
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tantek heuristics for detecting silo-permalinks in in-reply-to URLs, then using Bridgy Publish to POSSE such responses to those silo(s)
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tantek at least for like-of Tweet, rsvp in-reply-to FB event, in-reply-to github
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bear tantek - I am indeed, but like all voluntary items it's a great idea but without browser support it's toothless IMO -- now ask me this when GDPR compliance deadline is reached, a lot of companies will be having to manage either multiple privacy policies or take GDPR's as a default
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bear I know we (CircleCI) are just going to apply GDPRs for everyone, much easier to manage
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vanderven.se martijn edited /JSON (+1658) "/* Specs */ Because I keep refering to the wrong things, start with this history of linkified specs" (view diff)
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cweiske.de edited /Atom (+255) "atom threading extension" (view diff)
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cweiske.de edited /Nextcloud (+83) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
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cweiske.de edited /ownCloud (-174) "i'm using nextcloud now" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /Facebook (+103) "Zegnat added "https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2018/03/how-change-your-facebook-settings-opt-out-platform-api-sharing" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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www.svenknebel.de edited /Do_Not_Track (-33) "/* See Also */ remove duplicate link to EFF dnt-policy project" (view diff)
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sknebel that reminds me, did anything come out of that Apple proposal to allow videos in <img> tags?
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Zegnat Safari has already implemented that, right? So that’s what came out of it
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sknebel wasn't sure if they implemented it, or if anyone else has publicly considered it
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sknebel what is gif?
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Loqi gif is a bitmap image format introduced by CompuServe in 1987 https://indieweb.org/gif
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vanderven.se martijn edited /SoundCloud (+294) "/* Speculative Shutdown */ A month later SoundCloud was helped out with 170 million USD funding. A change in management happened at the same time." (view diff)
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www.svenknebel.de edited /gif (+114) "gif also used for any gif-like video, regardless of format" (view diff)
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cweiske Reader is /reader
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cweiske what is Reader
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Loqi A reader (or indie reader) in the context of the indieweb is the portion/feature integrated into an indieweb site that provides a way to read content from other indieweb sites, possibly including posts from the current site as well https://indieweb.org/reader
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cweiske Reader is /reader
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cweiske.de edited /Atom (+278) "/* Comments */" (view diff)
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realize.be edited /User:Realize.be (+151) "adding links to indieweb projects" (view diff)
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@tkadlec @maximekjaer It's temporary. I had Disqus and agree—a lot of times the discussion was really good. I want to replace it with Webmentions (https://adactio.com/journal/6495/), but I haven't finished the implementation yet. (twitter.com/_/status/976131014941700096)
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@benwerd @dubber Specifically: there's a standard called webmention that allows anyone with a blog to comment on anyone else's. (As well as RSVP to events, favorite pages, etc.) (twitter.com/_/status/976142683944108032)
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[cleverdevil] Okay, huge progress on puny, which is now no longer broken out into three pieces: https://github.com/cleverdevil/puny
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[cleverdevil] PunyAuth is still broken out, which I think makes sense.
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Loqi [cleverdevil] puny: Pure-Python IndieWeb CMS
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[cleverdevil] This now passes basically all of the micropub.rocks test suite.
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[cleverdevil] And stores everything on disk using ZODB, so there is no database server required.
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Zegnat Seems so close to what I am building with Sink that I might just jump ship and use your code, haha
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Loqi Zegnat: lol
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[cleverdevil] 🙂
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[cleverdevil] I'd love some help!
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[cleverdevil] The backend bits and pieces are pretty reasonable at this point.
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[cleverdevil] Its all of the actual website bits that suck.
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Zegnat What I know about Python is ectremely limited, I’m afraid.
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[cleverdevil] Its easy to learn 🙂
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[cleverdevil] I don't yet implement webmentions, or a whole host of other things.
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Zegnat Maybe I should start by porting my generic mf2 JSON schema into your mf2 tool. Hmmmmm
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sknebel what is ZODB?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "ZODB" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "ZODB is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[cleverdevil] ZODB is a native object database for Python - http://www.zodb.org/en/latest/
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /ZODB (+104) "prompted by sknebel and dfn added by [cleverdevil]" (view diff)
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sknebel Kaja << potentially linkify format like https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?oldid=46130&rcid=46022 . also, start to collect false-positives for linkify
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loqi.me edited /User:Kaja.sknebel.net (+163) "sknebel added "potentially linkify format like https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?oldid=46130&rcid=46022 . also, start to collect false-positives for linkify" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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Loqi ok, I added "potentially linkify format like https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?oldid=46130&rcid=46022 . also, start to collect false-positives for linkify" to a brand new "See Also" section of /User:Kaja.sknebel.net
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /User:Kaja.sknebel.net/upcoming-hwcs (-308) "update from /Events" (view diff)
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sknebel hm, not sure what to think of ZODB
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[cleverdevil] Its been around for *ages*.
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[cleverdevil] I was using something called TinyDB before, and it was just too brittle.
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[cleverdevil] I don't want to use a database server if I can avoid it.
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dgold anyone know how often micro.blog feeds update?
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Zegnat What is PyPy?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "PyPy" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "PyPy is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[cleverdevil] PyPy is an alternative implementation of the Python programming language that provides a JIT compiler, stackless mode, and other interesting features. PyPy is written in a subset of the Python programming language called RPython. http://pypy.org
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /PyPy (+273) "prompted by Zegnat and dfn added by [cleverdevil]" (view diff)
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /PyPy (+1) "linkify ('x is y. <url>.' pattern)" (view diff)
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Zegnat Bumped into that because of ZODB mentioning it, had never heard of it.
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Zegnat Seems interesting
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[cleverdevil] Its great.
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[cleverdevil] Very fast.
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sknebel [cleverdevil]: I do a yaml-based structure like many static generators for now, been thinking of replacing at least parts of that with something more standardized
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Zegnat sknebel, I thought YAML was over-standardised already? ;)
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Zegnat If you are thinking config files, I would say TOML is a contender? How is Python support on that?
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sknebel the file format doesn't matter (if it's any good I dump a dict in and get it out when I ask for the file again), the general bookkeeping is the bigger issue
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sknebel all the things that are just "a query" with a database
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[eddie] !tell aaronpk: I used xray to parse a tweet, and noticed it only has content: text, no content: html. I’m surprised that @-mentions in tweets aren’t treated as href’s in xray?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk hm
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Loqi aaronpk: [eddie] left you a message 2 minutes ago: I used xray to parse a tweet, and noticed it only has content: text, no content: html. I’m surprised that @-mentions in tweets aren’t treated as href’s in xray?
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aaronpk this is related: https://github.com/aaronpk/Aperture/issues/30
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Loqi [aaronpk] #30 generate autolinked HTML for plaintext posts
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[gerwitz] [aaronpk] OMG, Micropub.rocks is an amazing tool. I wish I had realized how useful it could be for testing earlier. (I thought it was only about publishing reports.)
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[gerwitz] [aaronpk] The media endpoint tests insist on a 201 response, though, when the spec says I should be returning 202 because I publish asynchronously.
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cweiske [gerwitz], did you solve your shpub media endpoint issue?
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[gerwitz] yes! sorry, that github issue tab is still open 😉
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aaronpk [gerwitz]: oh interesting, good catch
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aaronpk yes i should probably also redo the front page to make it less focused on the reports. that was more the focus when moving the spec through the w3c process
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[eddie] Ahh yeah, that is related aaronpk. Definitely seems useful. Doesn’t seem urgent, but I’m surprised that has never made it into xray. I guess because most of your stuff was always IRC to to now?
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aaronpk hah yeah probably
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[eddie] Because I’m pretty sure your tweet contexts have hyperlinked @-mentions
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[eddie] When using xray for reply-contexts you just autolink that text at display time?
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aaronpk good question, i'm not sure actually
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[eddie] It definitely gets auto-linked at some point: https://aaronparecki.com/2018/03/13/13/
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[eddie] haha 😉
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Naturally! It's the best! Still ride it as my main bicycle! 🚲☀️
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Loqi rofl
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[eddie] I’m just investigating adding better reply contexts and was analyzing the xray tweet output
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aaronpk well either way, you're going to need to handle autolinking anyway, since you can't guarantee all posts will have an HTML version
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snarfed [eddie]: granary generates content.html with linked @-mentions, #hashtags, and urls. feel free to try it.
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dgold not 100% indieweb, however
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dgold if my vps has ipv6 ending ::/64, and I already have :a2be/64, what's another valid endpoint?
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sknebel I do not understand the question, sorry. those are two subnets, what do you mean by "endpoint"?
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dgold ok, I may not be using the correct terminology, sorry sknebel
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dgold my vps is provisioned with the Subnet 2a00:1ca8:17:30a::/64
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dgold there is already one `site` at 2a00:1ca8:17:30a::a2be/64
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dgold I want to add another one on ipv6, but I am being befuddled at the ipv6 terminology
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sknebel ah
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[eddie] aaronpk: That is true! I’m thinking to start I’ll just go plain text and then focus on auto-linking
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[eddie] snarfed: Thanks! I’ll take a look
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KartikPrabhu what is text first design?
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KartikPrabhu what is text first design?
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Loqi Text-first design refers to the practice of designing information so that it is usable/actionable in its most basic plaintext form https://indieweb.org/text_first_design
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sknebel dgold: so you can pick anything starting with 2a00:1ca8:17:30a. might just do 2a00:1ca8:17:30a::1, 2a00:1ca8:17:30a::2, ...
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dgold sknebel: all the way to ffff?!?!
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sknebel all the way to ffff:ffff:ffff:ffff
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dgold holy crapsticks! ipv6 is awesome!
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sknebel you have 2^64 IP addresses to choose from
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dgold why isn't everything run on this?
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snarfed 😂😭
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sknebel loong story
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snarfed dgold: https://www.potaroo.net/ispcol/2018-01/addr2017.html (among others)
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snarfed tldr from that article: due to NATs and beyond, some large carriers kinda consider IP addrs more like semi-ephemeral routing tokens now, as opposed to permanent identifiers. from that perspective, IPv6 is less important.
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sknebel if you are a carrier and already have IP space, yes ;)
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snarfed (s/carriers/carriers, networking stacks, and device OEMs)
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dgold I can see the NAT issue, but c'mon, there are no v4 left
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snarfed so? NATs etc extend their usable space almost indefinitely
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snarfed more in https://www.potaroo.net/ispcol/2017-09/natdefence.html
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dgold because NAT is impenetrable to the $user?
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snarfed to be clear, i'm all for IPv6. but if you stop thinking of all IP addresses as long-lived endpoint identifiers - which lots of them are not now - it's a really interesting perspective shift
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snarfed eh, ICE, TURN, STUN...NATs are very penetrable in the 2018 internet
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dgold :)
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dgold touché
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sknebel people building that stuff sound not quite so optimistic :P
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sknebel (neither do people running small new hosting companies. explaining to your customers why you bill them per IPv4 address while your big competitors can throw them around must be quite annoying)
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snarfed true, but you don't need a dedicated IPv4 addr for a small web site, especially with SNI
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dgold goes adding ipv6 addresses to many websites
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dgold snarfed: but if you can have dedicated ipv6 address, why not?
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sknebel but yes, the combination of "IPv4 works, and we can keep it working with tricks, and our customers likely don't care/don't have a choice" + various problems with IPv6 + the fact that it's still not available to many is basically why not everything runs on IPv6 yet
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dgold if sites are our identity, then ip addresses are our documents
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aaronpk there's a coffee shop in portland where the wifi *only* routes ipv6 traffic. it's hilarious.
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sknebel bunch of mobile carriers do that too
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sknebel and in Germany, some home ISPs
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dgold my funtime server is ipv4 only
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dgold that's the one that stuff like compass, watchtower et al are living on
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sknebel (with NAT of course for IPv4 access)
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snarfed yup i'm all for ipv6 in general, including on our sites. (mine all do.)
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Zegnat I am pretty sure I still do not have IPv6 from home
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Zegnat “there's a coffee shop in portland where the wifi *only* routes ipv6 traffic” that sounds both hilarious and problematic.
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aaronpk it took me a while to realize what was going on at first
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aaronpk visiting google.com works, so you think you're online, but then random sites fail
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Zegnat I seem to recall ancarda did IPv6-only for a while, but couldn’t go on with it as stuff started breaking
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sknebel yeah, you really need a NAT64 gateway still, and even then some apps will fail. (although e.g. Apple nowadays enforces support for it in the app store. can't hardcode IPv4 addresses anymore)
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ancarda Oh god, yes I only did it because my ISP at the time (Andrews & Arnold) had a NAT64 gateway
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ancarda That was a few years back, and so much was broken
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ancarda But, funny, a few weeks ago I was working from home and my company’s VPN was only working for IPv6, and I didn’t notice for like, an hour, because all LAN servers are all IPv6, and almost everything external was Google (we’re heavy G Suite users)
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ancarda I used to turn off IPv4 every year in January to see how bad it was, and hopefully see it slowly get less broken every year, but I’ve not had IPv6 for a few years, and only recently gotten back to it
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tantek what is Puny
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Puny" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Puny is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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tantek what is PunyAuth
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "PunyAuth" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "PunyAuth is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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tantek what is ZODB
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Loqi ZODB is a native object database for Python - http://www.zodb.org/en/latest/ https://indieweb.org/ZODB
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[cleverdevil] PunyAuth is an IndieAuth token and auth endpoint implementation written in Python, by {{cleverdevil}}. - https://github.com/cleverdevil/punyauth
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Loqi [cleverdevil] punyauth: IndieAuth auth and token endpoint in pure Python
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tantek what is PunyAuth
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "PunyAuth" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "PunyAuth is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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tantek retry [cleverdevil]
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[cleverdevil] PunyAuth is an IndieAuth token and auth endpoint implementation written in Python, by {{cleverdevil}}. - https://github.com/cleverdevil/punyauth
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Loqi ok
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Loqi [cleverdevil] punyauth: IndieAuth auth and token endpoint in pure Python
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loqi.me created /PunyAuth (+172) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by [cleverdevil]" (view diff)
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[cleverdevil] What is Puny?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Puny" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Puny is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[cleverdevil] Puny is an experimental Micropub server, including Media Endpoint, written in Python by {{cleverdevil}}. - https://github.com/cleverdevil/puny
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Loqi ok
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Loqi [cleverdevil] puny: Pure-Python IndieWeb CMS
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loqi.me created /Puny (+170) "prompted by [cleverdevil] and dfn added by [cleverdevil]" (view diff)
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[cleverdevil] There 😀
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[cleverdevil] I’m pretty pleased with how well documented and readable the Micropub endpoint is - https://github.com/cleverdevil/puny/blob/master/puny/controllers/micropub.py
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[cleverdevil] Same with the IndieAuth token/auth endpoints - https://github.com/cleverdevil/punyauth/blob/master/punyauth/controllers/indieauth.py
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grantcodes Ok, the new together version is ready for testing!
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grantcodes If anyone is running it locally try checking out the feathers branch from github
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grantcodes Not put it live yes as I want to double check a few things
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tantek.com edited /Leaders (+225) "mf2 brainstorming resolving needed as part of mf2dev session" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Leaders (+143) "/* Issues */ another page to process" (view diff)
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[cleverdevil] Ooh, shiny.
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grantcodes Well there's no much new functionally really, marking stuff read on scroll is probably the biggest new feature
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[cleverdevil] I'm imagining performance is a little better.
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[cleverdevil] Works great so far, grant.
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[cleverdevil] Nice work 🙂
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skippy I've tweaked aaronpk's minimal media endpoint, and it accepts uploads and the uploads are visible with direct links. But Quill is unable to show the photo in the editor. What might I be doing wrong?
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aaronpk can you check whether it works in quill's note interface?
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skippy sorry, that's what i've been using.
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aaronpk oh, i assumed you meant the HTML editor
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skippy new note. upload photo. in the pop-up the photo is not there. empty box where a photo should be.
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aaronpk odd. maybe try one of the micropub.rocks tests so you can see the requests?
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skippy good idea! trying that no.
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skippy now
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skippy i seem to be returning 200, rather than 201 or 202.
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aaronpk that would do it
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skippy test 700 works fine; but test 300 fails.
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skippy i dont actually see "200" anywhere in the source of the file. how odd.
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aaronpk if you don't return anything else specifically it will return 200
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aaronpk also if there's an error, but your php is set to not display errors, it might also return 200 in some cases
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skippy the 201/202 should come from my micropub endpoint or my media endpoint?
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aaronpk media endpoint
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aaronpk well both
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aaronpk but this sounds like it's failing at the media endpoint one
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skippy i think perhaps the media endpoint is working as expected, but the micropub is not. this is helpful.
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skippy that was it. my micropub was not returning 201.
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skippy thank you.
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aaronpk 👍
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skippy so: the media endpoint URL is not passed to the micropub endpoint at all? I don't see any indication of this.
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aaronpk not sure what you mean
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aaronpk the micropub endpoint tells the client what the media endpoint URL is in the configuration query
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skippy ok. so i upload a photo through micropub, which sends it to my media endpoint. but then how do I access that media item in the note i"m composing in quill right now?
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aaronpk no, other way around
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skippy oh, do i manually copy out the URL from the pop-up that quill shows me/
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aaronpk the client uploads the photo to the media endpoint, the media endpoint returns the URL of the photo
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aaronpk then the client includes the photo URL as the "photo" property in the micropub request
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aaronpk no, you don't need to manually copy anything. quill just shows that URL for debugging
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skippy ah. there we go. thank you.
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