2018-04-08 UTC
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# 02:13 GWG snarfed, saw your comments. Will work to address so we can do a release to make the people with the post status problem happy [snarfed] joined the channel
# 02:23 aaronpk I am very very eager to get the new micropub plugin released! tantek joined the channel
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# 03:53 [miklb] GWG your current work allows for REST API authentication, corrrect? # 03:59 [miklb] I mean, on second read, I see where you explain where a user might be familiar with using OAuth, and you mention OAuth limiting in WP. Then mention REST API not having authentication methods. But I’m not sure you tie the two together. But might also be my still less than 100% following of the development. renem joined the channel
# 04:01 [miklb] I would put sirens and bells around the statement “this is a working OAuth authentication method for the REST API”. I think. # 04:04 aaronpk I don't think I know enough about WordPress to know that wasn't already possible # 04:05 aaronpk Also can someone please explain wpoauth.com to me? It looks like a very splashy marketing page and I can't tell what it actually does or how it relates to this IndieAuth plugin tantek joined the channel
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# 04:20 aaronpk I noticed it when I was figuring out how my content was ranking for OAuth terms # 04:21 GWG aaronpk, the WordPress REST API shipped without anything but cookie authentication. Other authentication was supposed to come later, but all we have are some infrequently maintained plugins # 04:23 [miklb] agreed, didn’t mean to diminish the post. It really is a huge achievement. # 04:28 GWG As I said, it's been part of my master plan # 04:28 GWG I didn't think you were trying to diminish it tantek joined the channel
# 04:42 GWG I just wonder how to best promote this once it goes into the .org repo. # 04:44 GWG I meant, what applications other than Micropub? # 04:45 GWG Micropub is itself worth promoting tantek joined the channel
# 04:49 [miklb] I wonder what kind of REST API example could be whipped up. snarfed joined the channel
# 04:55 [miklb] I’m already thinking about how can use it to sync content between local dev & live site. barpthewire, tantek and j12t joined the channel
# 05:43 GWG Okay...Micropub merges are happening. # 05:44 Loqi gwg has 25 karma in this channel (324 overall) # 05:45 snarfed GWG: what do you think about waiting on the scopes PR until the next release? # 05:45 GWG snarfed: I can make the change you requested right now. # 05:46 GWG I want to get the Post Status issue out # 05:46 snarfed auth is delicate, and i don't know which auth providers and which clients request scopes at all, and which ones # 05:46 GWG And the other tweaks are more than enough. # 05:46 GWG Who else can we bring into that discussion though? # 05:46 GWG Right now, the scope page on the wiki is sort of unclear. # 05:46 GWG Either way, will refresh for future discussion # 05:47 snarfed first we'd check the major auth providers and clients and see which scopes they handle, and whether this still works ok with them # 05:48 GWG snarfed: Only Micropub clients. Not auth providers. # 05:48 GWG So far, create, update, delete, and undelete, as well as the legacy post, seem consistent. # 05:48 GWG But I think we need more discussion as a community. # 05:49 snarfed but we probably can't drop post just yet, i'm guessing there are still clients we want to support that only use it # 05:51 snarfed hey GWG, on a different note...i don't really use the micropub plugin myself, or micropub in general, so i'm really the wrong person to maintain this plugin solo. want to be added as a committer on the repo? and help manage it, cut releases, etc? # 05:52 GWG snarfed: I'm happy to take it on. But, do you want to transfer the github repo to the indieweb community? Then it would require community review for any merge. # 05:52 snarfed hey, great! glad to hear it! let's take one step at a time. maybe community eventually! # 05:52 GWG For now, happy to handle releases. # 05:53 GWG We might be able to set up that automated deployment script pfefferle uses that is keyed to Github tagging # 05:54 GWG Just thinking of how to make it easier. # 05:54 GWG For now, I'll likely work on Bridgy Publish adapting to the new hook. # 05:54 GWG And try to get other POSSE onboard. # 05:55 snarfed for example, higher priority than automating releases is migrating CI from circle v1 to v2, since they're turning off v1 in august. [miklb] joined the channel
# 05:56 snarfed (oh also there's already a release shell script, push.sh) # 05:56 snarfed [miklb]: nah. i have a stash that's close though. i'll push it to a branch # 05:57 snarfed GWG: eh low priority. first, mind doing a basic manual smoke test on current head, both basic features and all your new features? after we confirm they all work, we can start cutting a release # 05:58 GWG Well, the category and syndication hook need things built to test them fully. # 05:58 GWG They are working on my test installation. # 05:59 GWG I suppose I can do a custom curl for location-visibility, as I'm building it now. # 05:59 snarfed yup! curl instructions in the comment at the top of the file # 06:00 snarfed don't worry about testing the hooks. test the user-visible features. location visibility, category query, renamed properties, default post status, etc # 06:03 GWG Draft post-status...working to spec. # 06:04 GWG snarfed: Quill is the only one that supports post-status. # 06:04 snarfed cool. OYG is a good candidate, since evidently it's broken w/wordpress-micropub right now? # 06:04 GWG snarfed: Because of the empty post-status field, which shouldn't happen again. Not sure I have a photo to post this time of night, but will have a look. j12t joined the channel
# 06:06 snarfed feel free to use a separate testing account. i do on pretty much all silos :P # 06:07 GWG I don't have one for Instagram. I do for Twitter. # 06:07 [miklb] I just pulled master into my live site, will test as well # 06:09 GWG snarfed: Slug change working, as is syndication change. # 06:10 GWG Category query working as expected with manual curl [snarfed] joined the channel
# 06:12 GWG Inkstone allows for custom field names. # 06:15 [miklb] I don’t know if this is a Sunlit issue or something new in the micropub plugin but get error media endpoint not found. # 06:19 GWG snarfed: Micropublish.net works well as well. # 06:20 GWG Also gives me a chance to test the Indieauth stuff # 06:20 [miklb] getting error connecting ownyourgram `Please check that you're handling the expected parameters and returning the "Location" header and try again.` # 06:22 GWG I need to install shpub one of these days # 06:22 GWG snarfed: Seems to work on all tests I did # 06:24 GWG I think during the week, I might try to get some thoughts on scop # 06:25 snarfed ok! feel free to follow push.sh to create a release, tag it, mark it in github, and push to wp.org # 06:29 snarfed (oh and obviously first bump the version in micropub.php, date the 1.4 changelog entries in the readmes, etc.) # 06:32 GWG Will push tomorrow. Need sleep. It is late here. # 06:32 [snarfed] good call. always better to take your time on anything big like this # 06:34 GWG snarfed, as I said, I want to use Micropub more. # 06:34 GWG Might even build a client, considering how worried I am about Gutenberg. # 06:35 GWG Is building a Micropub client inside WordPress a bad idea? sebsel and tantek joined the channel
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# 12:45 swentel !tell aaronpk Do you have an idea why a source is not getting new entries anymore in aperture ? In this case, it's my personal timeline, still only has the first 10 entries from the initial import. # 12:45 Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next barpthewire joined the channel
# 14:13 Loqi aaronpk: swentel left you a message 1 hour, 28 minutes ago: Do you have an idea why a source is not getting new entries anymore in aperture ? In this case, it's my personal timeline, still only has the first 10 entries from the initial import. # 14:14 GWG aaronpk: Scope....we have scope questions # 14:14 aaronpk !tell swentel could be on a low polling tier. you're using aperture.p3k.io right? Mind telling me the feed in question? I can take a look. # 14:14 Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next # 14:16 GWG How do you decide what scopes to support in your server? # 14:17 GWG I proposed supporting 'post', 'create', 'update', 'delete', and 'undelete'. # 14:17 Loqi [dshanske] #118 Add Support for Legacy and New Scopes # 14:18 GWG So, how does the Micropub community decide on these things? # 14:21 aaronpk create/update/delete/undelete are the ones that are most widely supported. 'post' is legacy and the only reason any clients still support it is for the few servers that haven't updated (wordpress and known i think) # 14:22 aaronpk the scope values should be documented on the wiki, i think the spec even links to the page # 14:23 Zegnat Also, since scopes may be server dependent, you as the WP server developer probably know what scopes make the most sense in addition to the “default” ones AngeloGladding joined the channel
# 14:24 aaronpk scopes are server-dependent but there also need to be some common set that clients understand so they can request appropriate scopes # 14:24 aaronpk the server can limit token abilities using alternative methods, like my own auth endpoint which lets me limit which channels a client can post to # 14:25 aaronpk but scope is meant to be the thing that clients and servers agree on in order to provide a good experience to users # 14:27 GWG aaronpk: So, you are suggesting we don't support scope? WordPress ignores everything. THat's the issue I'm trying to fix. # 14:28 GWG aaronpk: Excuse me, are you suggesting we don't support 'post'? # 14:29 GWG We never supported any scope officially, so deprecating it if no client is still using it makes sense. # 14:29 Zegnat I’d say drop post. Unless you know clients that are in active use but do not support create (which should be close to none) # 14:29 Loqi [dshanske] #118 Add Support for Legacy and New Scopes # 14:29 Zegnat I was working with some feature-scopes, aaronpk, like “can overwrite author”. If a client was authorised with that, the server would accept the author object in the mf2 body. If not it would use the author according to the user that authorised the client. # 14:30 aaronpk Zegnat: nice. do you think that's something that clients should be able to indicate they want the ability for? or is that just an internal thing? # 14:32 Zegnat I am treating it as an internal thing. But maybe at some point? It was meant to enable “replaying” micropub requests. I could crawl an HTML version of a site and submit mp requests for every post, but that would require a client to post as different authors. While for all usual clients you would not want them to spoof author information. # 14:32 Zegnat I had one like that for pubdate as well. Normally the server would attach the time-of-posting, but for a replay, I wanted a specific authorisation that would allow pubdate to come from the client. # 14:33 aaronpk interesting, my server allows any client to set the published date # 14:33 Zegnat Still part of my eternal tinkering on Sink though, nothing stable enough to publish # 14:34 GWG Also wondering if in the Indieauth plugin, I should go beyond that. # 14:34 Zegnat For a multi-user system, like Sink, if I gave you access to post to my site, I might not want you to post anywhere into the timeline and only create posts in the now. That’s the reason for splitting it, aaronpk. # 14:34 aaronpk Zegnat: if it's limiting what a user can do, that's beyond the ... scope ... of scope # 14:35 aaronpk scope gives the user the ability to limit what a client can do # 14:35 Zegnat Yes, and I may not want to grant, say, OYG the ability to post anywhere in my timeline. Just create posts. # 14:36 aaronpk those will only matter once clients know about them and have a reason to request them. i'd say keep it simple for now. # 14:36 aaronpk you can always add those kinds of permissions things on the authorization screen without having it use actual scope values # 14:38 GWG aaronpk: For the record, no one ever implemented a single one of them [miklb] joined the channel
# 14:38 aaronpk evanpro was talking about this for pump.io recently and made a good point # 14:38 GWG I'm just wondering if I should restrict access to anything not asked for # 14:39 [miklb] seems there should be some kind of basic mapping based on the WP role the user has, yes? # 14:41 GWG aaronpk: Whatever permissions the user has # 14:41 GWG So, I may implement a default scope of everything just so it displays on the screen. # 14:42 GWG What is a good name for a default scope of "Everything the User Can Do?" # 14:42 GWG I think defaulting to create and update is misleading. # 14:42 aaronpk scope is explicitly for the client to request limited permissions from the server # 14:43 aaronpk of course the token should only be able to do what the user can do and not have greater privileges, and you don't need scope for that # 14:43 GWG The problem is Micropub imposes scope, not Indieauth. So, with Indieauth you get the kitchen sink. # 14:43 GWG I probably have to figure out how to say that in the Authorize page snarfed joined the channel
# 14:46 aaronpk k i updated that page to make it a little clearer which scopes are commonly supported # 14:52 snarfed for the record, the wordpress micropub absolutely does check scopes right now! # 14:52 snarfed it's just old and limited and only requires either post or create :P # 14:53 GWG snarfed: Sorry for the inaccuracy # 14:53 GWG Is there any way under Indieauth to limit permissions of a token to a specific endpoint? # 14:54 snarfed also GWG i just noticed the micropub plugin skips the scope check if the IndieAuth plugin is installed. is that right?! i'm happy to defer to it for login, but we should still check scopes, right? # 14:54 GWG snarfed: The new scope code moves the scope check to where it checks user permissions # 14:55 GWG snarfed: Do you feel comfortable merging it less the filter? # 14:55 GWG Also, do we want to still support the 'post' scope? # 14:55 snarfed sorry, no, i think we need to discuss/think more before merging # 14:56 GWG snarfed: So, maybe the answer is in the Indieauth plugin checking scope # 14:56 snarfed i'm on the opposite side from Zegnat :P i think the burden of proof is more on us to check that people *aren't* using old 'post'-only clients # 14:57 snarfed GWG: if you mean move scope checking there entirely, no. micropub should still authorize if indieauth isn't installed! # 14:57 aaronpk scope should have nothing to do with user role. it's the ability to limit within what a user can already do. # 14:57 aaronpk and yes because it's almost impossible to know what clients are expecting the legacy "post" scope, you should continue to accept it # 14:58 aaronpk it would be nice if it didn't appear in the UI unless a client specifically requested it, to encourage clients to support the create/update/delete ones # 14:59 [miklb] and so if I’m a super admin on the site, but I want to limit the micropub to only create, not edit or delete, that would be where scope comes into play? # 14:59 aaronpk is it possible that a user account is unable to delete posts? # 15:00 aaronpk interesting, in that case, if a client requests the "delete" scope, the server should not include it in the token issued # 15:00 GWG snarfed: I'm agreeing on that. I meant, to cover it taking over that function if installed # 15:00 [miklb] well, it depends. If it’s their post or someone else’s. # 15:01 aaronpk ah if they can always delete their own posts then it still makes sense to let clients request delete scope # 15:01 snarfed GWG: sorry, i guess i don't understand why we'd optionally defer micropub scope checking to a different, non-micropub plugin :P let's always do it in mp # 15:01 [miklb] I had to refresh my memory on the caps. It’s broken down on that link I shared above # 15:03 [miklb] and that’s just the default roles & caps. there are options to create new roles with more granular caps. # 15:03 GWG snarfed, I will figure out how to address that. # 15:04 snarfed great! thank you! let's maybe get the existing 1.4 release out first though? # 15:05 GWG snarfed, the Indieauth plugin isn't yet released. I will save it for 1.5 # 15:06 aaronpk there's enough changes in the micropub plugin to do a release now right? even without the scope stuff? [snarfed] joined the channel
# 15:07 [snarfed] yes! we did pretty much all the manual testing i want last night # 15:08 aaronpk i know at least one person who will be excited to be able to use ownyourgram # 15:08 GWG aaronpk, I just need to update the version info and set up to push. # 15:09 [snarfed] aaronpk: fortunately they can retry individual photos, right? # 15:12 GWG [snarfed]: It shall be done before the sun sets in the west. # 15:12 GWG [snarfed]: Could I convince you to test IndieAuth? # 15:12 GWG pfefferle was having problems, and I don't want to release a troubled product # 15:13 GWG And yes...I need to write some unit tests # 15:16 [miklb] GWG I would just need to pull your branch to test, correct? I can do that later today. # 15:25 GWG Endpoint Fixes branch fixes a few things j12t, [kevinmarks], eli_oat, maingo and jjuran joined the channel
# 17:39 Loqi [brentsimmons] wildcat: CMS and blogging system that generates static pages. # 17:42 sknebel but that example also has a server component, its not just a static site generator [cleverdevil] joined the channel
# 17:43 [cleverdevil] I think that convincing Daniel Jalkut to add Micropub support to MarsEdit could have a big impact on Micropub adoption... # 17:43 dgold [cleverdevil]: there was something on those lines recently on m.b # 17:45 [cleverdevil] Its that constant catch 22... more CMSs will implement when more clients exist, and more clients will implement when more CMSs implement. # 17:46 dgold someone was talking about implementing an XML-RPC wrapper on micropub # 17:47 aaronpk every time I think about writing that bridge I back away in terror after digging into the xmlrpc spec tho eli_oat and [snarfed] joined the channel
# 18:05 [snarfed] ugh. xml-rpc really puts "bridge all the things" to the rest. # 18:11 aaronpk what in the world is "?rsd" on the wordpress xmlrpc link and why does that seem to be required for Byword to discover the endpoint? AngeloGladding joined the channel
# 18:30 Zegnat Any Hugo users in here know if I can make Hugo look at the DOM it has generated from the .md files and have it process that? swentel joined the channel
# 18:37 Zegnat I am complicated. Guess I’ll do some DOM manipulation in PHP instead. # 18:37 Zegnat Thought I would just join the cool-kids-club ;) [kevinmarks] joined the channel
# 18:38 [kevinmarks] Process it how? HTML in a post gets passed through by Hugo, so I suppose you could wrap it in more HTML or something. What is the goal? # 18:43 skippy i am regretting making all my tweets into posts in Hugo. unsure if i'm going to keep that in place or not. kaushalmodi joined the channel
# 18:46 Zegnat Hmm, but that’s just running text search-and-replaces on the HTML? I guess that could work, but feels a little fragile # 18:47 Zegnat Go seems to have a solid HTML parser, so I was kinda hoping I could use that. But I might be better of sticking to PHP for my needs, where I know how to tweak such things # 18:48 kaushalmodi Yeah, that makes better sense.. I resorted to that partial because I don't know JS, PHP, etc. # 18:52 Zegnat E.g. to be able to add microformats, I need to insert a wrapper div inside all article elements. But I would need to make sure it isn’t already there. That is easy to do if I can just work on the DOM tree. We’ll see # 18:59 kaushalmodi So if I understand correctly, it doesn't have hooks to directly play with HTML elements # 18:59 kaushalmodi The best way is to design a Hugo theme to insert the microformats at the right places # 19:00 Zegnat But that’s not possible if I am authoring posts as HTML blobs # 19:00 Zegnat Hugo probably just isn’t the right builder for me [miklb] joined the channel
# 19:02 [miklb] skippy is there any front matter on the tweet posts you can use to filter on the home page? # 19:02 GWG aaronpk: pfefferle figured out the problem # 19:04 GWG I just finished pushing Micropub 1.4 # 19:05 aaronpk i'm glad you understand that comment because I don't haha # 19:06 GWG aaronpk: I speak fluent pfefferle. # 19:06 GWG aaronpk: Basically, the verification function is looking up the endpoint from configuration. It isn't discovering it. # 19:07 GWG So, when he tries to use notiz.blog's token and auth endpoint to log into pfefferle.org, it is using the pfefferle.org settings, not the notiz.blog settings. # 19:08 GWG When I wrote the code, it was before I wrote the endpoint. [kaushal_modi] joined the channel
# 19:10 [kaushal_modi] Zegnat: hmm.. Hugo accepts HTML content too.. but then too you need to pass that HTML blog with front-matter as content to Hugo # 19:11 Zegnat Yes, but it will need to add microformats within the HTML blob, which is where it hangs. So I’ll leave Hugo be for now # 19:15 Zegnat is a little sad he needs a wrapper div to get right mf2 :( # 19:17 Loqi swentel: aaronpk left you a message 5 hours, 2 minutes ago: could be on a low polling tier. you're using aperture.p3k.io right? Mind telling me the feed in question? I can take a look. # 19:17 GWG swentel: Been working hard on it. # 19:17 GWG swentel: Saw you are doing the Android micropub client # 19:18 swentel yeah, saw it in my feed today, can be an inspiration for the drupal indieweb module I'm writing [pfefferle] joined the channel
# 19:18 swentel GWG, yep. I hope to start rolling out alpha releases out next week # 19:18 GWG swentel: If you need an alpha tester.. jmac joined the channel
# 19:19 swentel GWG, sure, the more the better, it's a bit lonely right now testing it out heh KartikPrabhu joined the channel
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# 19:20 swentel all other sources are getting new content, so that's fine # 19:21 aaronpk ah yeah looks like your feed isn't going to be checked for another 5 hours # 19:21 aaronpk I might need to work on the polling schedule a bit j12t joined the channel
# 19:25 GWG swentel: When you have an APK for me to install, I'll be happy to test it KartikPrabhu joined the channel
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# 19:52 schmarty also has some websub client itches and is not sure what is stopping him tantek, sebsel and snarfed joined the channel
# 20:25 snarfed GWG++ wp-micropub plugin 1.4 release looks great! # 20:25 Loqi gwg has 26 karma in this channel (325 overall) eli_oat, snarfed, jjuran and barpthewire joined the channel
# 23:37 grantcodes I'm doing some thinking about something but don't know what the actual terminoligy is to look it up on the wiki. # 23:38 grantcodes Not private posts but posts that are not part of a "main feed" of a site and sort of hidden tantek joined the channel
# 23:41 grantcodes Maybe post visibility would be the term 🤔 but I'm sure there must be some thoughts about it on the wiki somewhere # 23:52 GWG grantcodes: Micropub has visibility=public/private as an experimental property. # 23:53 GWG WordPress has 'inherit', I believe. # 23:54 GWG In WordPress, the concept is 'inherit', used with a child post, such as an attachment, to determine the status from the parent post. # 23:55 grantcodes Hmm yeah this is slightly different though, it's more the case it just shouldn't be in a main/home feed # 23:56 GWG grantcodes: You can propose other possibilities. # 23:56 GWG This is the closest to what you are thinking
@ChrisAldrich ↩️ I've sent you a few webmentions directly from my site. Be sure to check that they're not getting caught in your spam filter. See also: https://indieweb.org/WordPress_with_Bridgy#Spam (twitter.com/_/status/982803035863879680)
@spigot ↩️ @ChrisAldrich I’m not seeing anything in spam. Where would I see the webmention? I assume inline in post comments? (twitter.com/_/status/982816012796964864)
@dshanske IndieAuth for WordPress - https://di5.us/b/Wy https://t.co/ai8zSPNH39 (twitter.com/_/status/982818602951856129)
[miklb] I mean, on second read, I see where you explain where a user might be familiar with using OAuth, and you mention OAuth limiting in WP. Then mention REST API not having authentication methods. But I’m not sure you tie the two together. But might also be my still less than 100% following of the development.
@adamprocter ↩️ @dotsandspaces Discourse doesn’t appear to support webmentions… but I might try and sort this out for blog mind (twitter.com/_/status/982954149733167104)
aaronparecki.com edited /Micropub (+87) "/* Scope */ update to 'create' to reflect current usage" (view diff)
aaronpk links to https://indieweb.org/scope
GWG Anyone want to say that on https://github.com/snarfed/wordpress-micropub/pull/118
Zegnat I am treating it as an internal thing. But maybe at some point? It was meant to enable “replaying” micropub requests. I could crawl an HTML version of a site and submit mp requests for every post, but that would require a client to post as different authors. While for all usual clients you would not want them to spoof author information.
[cleverdevil] Interesting, he's adding MetaWeblog API.
@fhemberger @aaronpk Hi Aaron, I'm trying to implement webmentions on my site. Unfortunately, @netlify doesn't support encrypted env vars, so I'm not sure if pushing the API token to GitHub in clear text is a good idea. Any thoughts? (twitter.com/_/status/983043552962908161)
Loqi Netlify is a CDN/static hosting provider with integrated build service, useful for static site generators https://indieweb.org/Netlify
@aaronpk ↩️ ah, if you don't mind everyone having access to query your webmentions on https://webmention.io then it's fine to make that public, either in github or in Javascript on your site. (twitter.com/_/status/983046563164401664)
[kevinmarks] Process it how? HTML in a post gets passed through by Hugo, so I suppose you could wrap it in more HTML or something. What is the goal?
kaushalmodi Zegnat: By DOM, you mean HTML tag manipulation?
swentel aaronpk, feed is https://realize.be/timeline
snarfed one minor thing: you still need to add the release changelog in the git release. go to https://github.com/snarfed/wordpress-micropub/releases/edit/v1.4 , add '### Notable changes' line, then changelog contents
grantcodes I'm doing some thinking about something but don't know what the actual terminoligy is to look it up on the wiki.