#dev 2018-04-23

2018-04-23 UTC
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jacky.wtf edited /website-analytics (+2) "/* Matomo */" (view diff)
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[eddie] That’s awesome [cleverdevil]! You have to start somewhere
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[eddie] !tell aaronpk I’m thinking about adding embedded reply context in the Micropub request that you make when you like, reply or bookmark a post in Indigenous. The reason for this is some stuff won’t be able to have reply contexts from my site if the content came from anything but h-feed.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[eddie] !tell aaronpk my question is, would that break existing implements, so should it be hidden behind a settings flag?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[eddie] !tell aaronpk Of course that would only happen if the user’s Micropub supports JSON format
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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loqi.me created /david.shanske.com (+35) "prompted by tantek and redirect added by tantek" (view diff)
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notiz.blog edited /lost_infrastructure (-6) (view diff)
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loqi.me created /tantek.com (+28) "prompted by tantek and redirect added by tantek" (view diff)
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vanderven.se martijn edited /podcast (+1048) "/* Brainstorming */ Section: How to create a subscribe link" (view diff)
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vanderven.se martijn edited /podcast (+201) "/* How to create a subscribe link */ WordPress recommends the itpc scheme" (view diff)
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jonnybarnes.uk uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:WoodwindNewOwner.png]]" https://indieweb.org/File:WoodwindNewOwner.png"
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jonnybarnes.uk edited /Woodwind (+87) "Site seems to be owned by somene else now" (view diff)
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@cathieleblanc Working on #IndieAuth for my new #IndieWeb site. Had to completely delete the web site from my Twitter profile and then add it again in order to get the rel=me to be recognized by IndieAuth. (twitter.com/_/status/988358258300768256)
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@cathieleblanc The problem with #IndieAuth signin for #IndieWeb was that I had mismatches between http and https. Need to be consistent! (twitter.com/_/status/988375735982350336)
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deeden.co.uk edited /Microsub-spec (-31) "Update Monocle tests link to Aperture" (view diff)
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petermolnar note to self: if the post is in the future, don't send webmentions...
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cweiske fortunetelling webmentions
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petermolnar I missed and if self.is_future: walk away condition
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cweiske reminds me of the magic letter sorting machine in "going postal"
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petermolnar the way I handle future posts is that I render them in advance, but they are excluded from sitemap, categories, etc, so unless you know the exact url, it's supposed to be hidden
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aaronpk argh, the subtome follow button doesn't actually have way to give you the RSS feed URL itself
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Loqi aaronpk: [eddie] left you a message 7 hours, 39 minutes ago: I’m thinking about adding embedded reply context in the Micropub request that you make when you like, reply or bookmark a post in Indigenous. The reason for this is some stuff won’t be able to have reply contexts from my site if the content came from anything but h-feed.
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Loqi aaronpk: [eddie] left you a message 7 hours, 38 minutes ago: my question is, would that break existing implements, so should it be hidden behind a settings flag?
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Loqi aaronpk: [eddie] left you a message 7 hours, 37 minutes ago: Of course that would only happen if the user’s Micropub supports JSON format
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cweiske aaronpk, http://cweiske.de/tagebuch/ - see the follow button
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cweiske the feed URL is the href of the "follow" link
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aaronpk that looks fine on yours
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aaronpk this one doesn't tho http://boffosocko.com/tag/an-indieweb-podcast/
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cweiske I took care of offering a non-js link value
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aaronpk ah nice, so that's not the default?
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cweiske http://docs.subtome.com/publishers/
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cweiske no, it's not the default
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cweiske ha: https://gist.github.com/julien51/4332573#file-subscribe-button-html
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cweiske I commented on that 3 years ago :)
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sknebel nice! I wonder if you can have it do something when it fails to load the subtome-JS? (uBlock didn't like it, but of course at that point the click has already been captured and cancelled...)
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cweiske the onclick JS can return true/false to control event propagation
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cweiske so it could theoretically "return true" to keep the href working in error cases
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sknebel yeah. problem is that it doesn't know if the inserted script loads properly in error cases
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sknebel that's always an issue with selective blocking
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cweiske global var definition checking that's defined inside the js to load?
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sknebel maybe. but in this case the script is only loaded on click, and the event handler can't wait for it to complete. an option might be to extend it that the included script has an onerror(?) handler that then does something, e.g. show a "failed to load subtome script, click here for direct link to feed" around the button?
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sknebel or redirect to the feed url
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[grib] Anyone ever try uploading an image to a micropub media endpoing from the Workflow app on iOS? I can't quite figure out how to fill out the form that "Get URL Content" form to allow it
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aaronpk yea! I have that set up
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aaronpk it was a trick
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aaronpk [grib]: https://indieweb.org/Workflow#Micropub_Media_Endpoint
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skippy can anyone help me understand the CORS implications / requirements of https://github.com/jjdelc/grumble ?
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Loqi skippy: Zegnat left you a message 1 day, 2 hours ago: Hopefully http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-json#properties will answer all your questions about how to put properties in a mf2 JSON format.
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Loqi [jjdelc] grumble: Micropub client
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[grib] Awesome, thanks
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aaronpk new indielogin.com is starting to look good
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[snarfed] @skippy https://cors-anywhere.herokuapp.com
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[snarfed] [aaronpk]++ ! not launched yet?
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Loqi aaronpk has 138 karma in this channel (1622 overall)
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aaronpk nope not yet
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[snarfed] 👍
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aaronpk I decided to do a separate pass through the project where I focus on writing clear error messages, so that's next
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aaronpk for now it just aborts with a text error so I can test the functionality and won't be tempted to launch it ahead of having good errors :)
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skippy [snarfed]: that doesn't really tell me much. Or if it is supposed to, I'm not figuring it out.
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skippy moreover, I'm unsure why I need CORS if I've installed grumble on the same server as my Micropub endpoint? There's no cross-origin request going on there: it's all the same domain.
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Zegnat If it is all on the same domain, there should not be any CORS implications, no
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ben_thatmustbeme is it messing up with a www vs non www-?
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[kevinmarks] hm diveintomark.link has a fatwigoo problem http://www.diveintomark.link/2009/why-do-we-have-an-img-element
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ben_thatmustbeme hmm, okay, that would have been a major issue, haven't run job processor in almost a year
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ben_thatmustbeme lots of referrers to parse, a number of webmentions to process
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www.svenknebel.de edited /PubSubHubbub (+0) "fix double redirect" (view diff)
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[grib] [aaronpk] look is like your method been working all this time but nothing is being returned (from Known). Getting closer...
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[grib] *looks like
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aaronpk sorry what is working?
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[grib] Uploading images to the Micropub endpoint from Workflow
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@nhoizey ↩️ My current Jekyll build time is more about 2500 seconds… 😭 Jekyll Assets for CSS and JS, my plugin for images with Cloudinary, plugins for YouTube videos, plugin for Webmentions, etc. (twitter.com/_/status/988455647573405698)
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aaronpk oh good!
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[kevinmarks] nice; https://github.com/11ty/eleventy#competitors
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Loqi [11ty] eleventy: A simpler static site generator. An alternative to Jekyll. Transforms a directory of templates (of varying types) into HTML.
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tantek what is eleventy
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "eleventy" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "eleventy is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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tantek is anyone here using it KevinMarks?
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[kevinmarks] nhoizey said he was trying it
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[kevinmarks] interesting: https://github.com/11ty/eleventy-import-disqus
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Loqi [11ty] eleventy-import-disqus: A manual process to import existing exported disqus.xml content into an eleventy blog.
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tantek snarfed, no matter, you have github.com/bridgy :D
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snarfed tantek++ thanks to you!
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Loqi tantek has 29 karma in this channel (429 overall)
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snarfed a username in a silo is still a wonderful thing to be
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snarfed (something like that, forgot the exact quote i'm paraphrasing)
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tantek jmac, in addition to the manual WM entry textfield, the second textfield (presumably for a Vouch URL) could be created/enabled by JS dynamically upon entering a URL (onblur) in the first, and possibly even quickly checking it with your server's auto-approve domains/webmentions list first and providing that feedback with a nice green "send webmention" button.
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cweiske pstuifzand, https://github.com/cweiske/anoweco/issues/10
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Loqi [cweiske] #10 micropub-android: Missing element "scope" in authorization_endpoint response
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cweiske I get "Could not verify authorization: Missing element "scope" in authorization_endpoint response" from your app
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cweiske but the spec says the auth response does only include "me"
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aaronpk something else is fishy here
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aaronpk the android app should not be trying to verify the authorization code, it should talk directly to the token endpoint to get the access token using the authorization code
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@_beatonma Webmention test article: http://localhost:91/a/180415-webmention-test-article (twitter.com/_/status/988465822862585856)
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@nitinthewiz Turning off Disqus comments on my WP blog has meant that I get, on average, 10 spam comments a day. Worth it to support Webmentions and see twitter Likes on my blogposts? (twitter.com/_/status/988469263898824704)
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jmac tantek: That does sound like a a good UX pattern, but I have difficultly imagining a reality where a visitor would be succinctly asked to provide a vouching URL, and then the visitor subsequently providing one.
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jmac Like, I wouldn't even know how to have the webpage meaningfully phrase the question!
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sknebel PSA: yet another drupal security pre-annoucement: https://www.drupal.org/psa-2018-003
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skippy I'm still struggling to get Grmble to work on my test site. https://skippy.rocks/microclient/ is where I've installed the source of Grumble; but I get no login prompt there.
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skippy does that work for anyoen else, by any chance?
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aaronpk i see some JS errors in the console
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aaronpk looks like it's expecting you to define the client ID
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skippy oh, looks like it demands to be at the root of the domain, rather than in a sub dir, too.
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tantek jmac - "how to have the webpage meaningfully phrase the question!" - yes! great UX question and definitely worthy of some brainstorming and experimentation!
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skippy https://github.com/jjdelc/grumble doesnt mention anything about client ID, or client.js...
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Loqi [jjdelc] grumble: Micropub client
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cweiske aaronpk, "5.4 Authorization Code Verification" says "client makes a POST request to the authorization endpoint to verify the authorization code and retrieve the final user profile URL. "
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cweiske this is what's happening I think
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aaronpk section 5 is authentication, not authorization
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aaronpk so if the app is trying to get a token so it can post comments, that's authorization
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cweiske "5.1 Discovery" asks the client to discover the authORIZATION endpoint, not the authentication endpoint
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cweiske so I guess the exception about authorization_endpoint is because of that
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aaronpk yes the "authorization endpoint" is used for both
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aaronpk which is mildly confusing
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aaronpk but openid connect says that too http://openid.net/specs/openid-connect-core-1_0.html
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aaronpk 3. Authentication .... 3.1 Authentication using the Authorization Code Flow ... 3.1.2 Authorization Endpoint
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aaronpk hah this is familiar https://github.com/Inklings-io/selfauth/issues/38
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Loqi [skpy] #38 Scopes during identification?
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cweiske pstuifzand, I've opened https://github.com/pstuifzand/micropub-android/issues/14
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Loqi [cweiske] #14 Can't authenticate with commentpara.de: Missing element "scope" in authorization_endpoint response
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Zegnat selfauth is usually correct. So sounds like grumble is doing an id request and sending scope anyway
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aaronpk that's weird cause i see https://github.com/jjdelc/grumble/blob/ef9826a33dd79b13d37d8a84c64a239158fb3254/src/index.html#L121
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skippy shouldn't selfauth just ignore the scope? i mean, a client could pass any old junk it wants in the request; selfauth should only act on that about which it cares?
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Zegnat Because it is about authentication (and in part because I am a stickler) selfauth is pretty strcit
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sknebel generally not a good idea with security stuff
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Zegnat Also helps to test implementations
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Zegnat switches to computer to check selfauth source
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skippy "be liberal in what you accept, and strict in what you transmit".
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aaronpk wait
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aaronpk https://github.com/Inklings-io/selfauth/issues/38#issuecomment-383662000
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Loqi [skpy] ``` https://skippy.rocks/auth?me=https%3A%2F%2Fskippy.rocks%2F&scope=create+update&client_id=https%3A%2F%2Findieauth.com%2F&redirect_uri=https%3A%2F%2Findieauth.com%2Fauth%2Findieauth%2Fredirect&state=c023a28509528df4ffe6a300d7df6c59 ``` I'm usi...
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aaronpk how'd that URL get created with no response_type
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aaronpk it's missing response_type=code, so selfauth thinks it's an ID request
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aaronpk but when I type in skippy.rocks into the sign-in form I get taken to https://skippy.rocks/auth?me=https%3A%2F%2Fskippy.rocks%2F&client_id=https%3A%2F%2Fskippy.rocks%2Fmicroclient&redirect_uri=https%3A%2F%2Fskippy.rocks%2Fmicroclient&scope=create+update&response_type=code
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sknebel what does the indieauth.com callback url do there?!
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aaronpk yeah i am confused about that first URL
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Zegnat skippy, except when it comes to security, I rather exit early as soon as I see anything is fishy ;)
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aaronpk the client_id is set to indieauth.com too
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sknebel skippy: can you reproduce how you got that url?
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skippy when I go to https://skippy.rocks/microclient/, I am asked to type in my domain name. I type in "https://skippy.rocks/" and click the button. That takes me to https://indieauth.com/auth?me=https%3A%2F%2Fskippy.rocks%2F&client_id=https%3A%2F%2Fskippy.rocks%2Fmicroclient&redirect_uri=https%3A%2F%2Fskippy.rocks%2Fmicroclient&scope=create+update&response_type=code
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skippy where I then select "IndieAuth"
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aaronpk i think something is cached. try clearing your cache on skippy.rocks.
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skippy ok
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aaronpk when i type in skippy.rocks to that page i get taken to the correct place
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aaronpk but also i keep getting JS errors from grumble and have to delete the cache between attempts
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skippy yes, that seems to have fixed things. thank you.
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aaronpk *whew*
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pstuifzand It seems I added a verification step that's not needed
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pstuifzand It's a POST to the auth endpoint with code, redirect_uri and client_id
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aaronpk yeah clients don't need to do that, the client just exchanges the code for an access token at the token endpoint
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aaronpk mind sharing how you ended up thinking that was a required step? I'd like to clean up the docs around that
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pstuifzand I guess I followed the sections in the spec. I didn't notice section 5 and 6 are about different things
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aaronpk ah interesting
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pstuifzand What is section 5 used for ?
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aaronpk for things like logging in to the wiki
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aaronpk when the app just wants to know who logged in, but isn't trying to do micropub
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pstuifzand ok, so perhaps if you want to have a private section on a website
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aaronpk yep definitely
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swentel where is section 5 and 6 ? /developers page seems fine though
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Loqi swentel: tantek left you a message 22 hours, 22 minutes ago: add yourself to https://indieweb.org/irc-people so that you show up in the logs with a photo and linked to your website!
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aaronpk on the spec https://indieauth.spec.indieweb.org/#authentication
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pstuifzand yes that is what is was referring to
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swentel oh wow, that's a nice page :)
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aaronpk it's very thorough
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realize.be edited /IRC_People (+92) "/* Nicknames */" (view diff)
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tantek swentel while you're here, I think our Drupal page might be out of date or possibly confusing to new folks looking to use Drupal to interact with the IndieWeb. I tried to do a little editorial cleanup (putting your module first in the list as "current"), but it could really use just a little help with updates (per your recommendations) to the "How to" section: https://indieweb.org/Drupal#How_to
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swentel yes, a lot of those modules are pretty much outdated
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swentel LinkBack is the only one that's actively maintained
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tantek feel free to remove or move them to a "Past" section
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swentel I'll do that
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swentel I'll talk on the next DrupalCon about IndieWeb normally in september
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tantek awesome!
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tantek swentel, thanks to your plugin and dries's blog posts, I've also bumped Drupal up to the top subsection of the Projects page, where I did still note that we could use better documentation for how to install and set up Drupal as an IndieWeb friendly personal site: https://indieweb.org/projects#Drupal
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swentel yeah, I had been thinking about moving that up too this week, but since I'm very new, I didn't want to rush in and start changing all wiki's heh
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tantek that page still needs a lot of work but the least I could do was bump Drupal up since all the recent progress
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pstuifzand I removed the verification step and everything still works :)
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tantek also feel free to ask (either here or #indieweb-meta) if you're ever unsure about changing / editing any wiki page
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swentel ok will do, thanks :)
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tantek we often ask each other to review major edits
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tantek e.g. https://chat.indieweb.org/meta/2018-04-21#t1524350103879200
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Loqi [tantek] aaronpk: WDYT of the https://indieweb.org/projects update? improvement? good direction? shall I keep going?
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realize.be edited /Drupal (+0) "/* IndieWeb Tools */" (view diff)
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realize.be edited /projects (-24) "/* Drupal */" (view diff)
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swentel used {{realize.be}}
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swentel seems nicer as a link :)
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realize.be edited /Drupal (-23) "/* Kristof De Jaeger */" (view diff)
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cweiske swentel++ for indigenous-android
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Loqi swentel has 3 karma in this channel (7 overall)
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cweiske the direct reply in the share menu works fine
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swentel cool :)
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cweiske only that the URL is focused could be better
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swentel could use an update on the actual description of the feature on that screen, it's a bit weird
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swentel oh, yeah, the keyboard that pops up?
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swentel it shouldn't really do that right
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cweiske when I reply from the browser, indigenous pops up and in the reply screen the URL field has focus
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cweiske so I have to tap the text field first before I can type my reply
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swentel yeah, has been bothering me too
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swentel *creating an issue*
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swentel I'm actually going let the other post types be exposed too
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swentel configurable of course
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swentel because it might make sense to paste selected text in a note for instance
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eddiehinkle.com edited /Netflix (+300) "/* Your Viewing History */ +manual export" (view diff)
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skippy my micropub endpoint and my media endpoint share the same URL. How can I determine whether any individual POST is a single file to the media endpoint, versus a JSON or form encoded post of non-media content?
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skippy should I make my media endpoint a separate URL?
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[kevinmarks] That's probably safer
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sknebel skippy: it uses a different content type, so should be easy to decide?
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sknebel oh wait, multipart is also allowed for normal requests
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sknebel then you'd have to look at the names of the fields too
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sknebel but a fileupload to the media endpoint is always going to be in the "file" field and won't have a "h" field
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skippy to make sure I understand: in PHP at least, a media-only would have $_FILES['file'] and no $_POST['h'], right?
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skippy whereas a multi-part post with media would have both?
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sknebel not sure how that maps to PHP, sorry
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sknebel I'd guess so
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skippy yes, i have confirmed it. thank you.
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sknebel does anyone know offhand what happens if a sysadmin has disabled some php functions (e.g. to not allow people to start random processes on shared hosting) and your script contains one?
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skippy it likely wont do anything.
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skippy it might error out, but probably not.
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skippy oh man, the micropub spec says media endpoints accept ONLY "file", while multipart uploads to non-media endpoints can use "photo" or "video" or any other standard property. :(
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skippy is Indigenous for Android converting photos to png on the client side before uploading them? I'm uploading JPEGs and my server appears to be seeing PNGs.
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swentel skippy, hmm yes, I don't even know why on earth I'm doing that
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swentel it doesn't make sense
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swentel that should be jpg
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swentel or at least check the photo type and decide on that
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swentel but 99% will be jpg anyway (at least for a photo)
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skippy aye
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swentel ok, created an issue for that, will fix that tomorrow
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aaronpk sknebel: the idea with the media endpoint is it has no idea what the files are or what they will be used for, so it's always just "file"
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aaronpk whereas with a micropub endpoint, it's adding a file to some specific h-entry vocabulary, like photo or video or audio
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aaronpk the media endpoint isn't creating a post, it's just creating a file that will be later used in a post
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sknebel you probably meant to highlight skippy
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aaronpk argh
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aaronpk sk[tab]
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aaronpk yes skippy
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aaronpk overeager autocomplete
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tantek.com edited /Netflix (+791) "expand dfn, note past features, subheadings for how to, how to pessos" (view diff)
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@ChrisAldrich ↩️ Today, with the help of Webmention and tools like http://Brid.gy, I've just passed the 9,000 reactions mark (and added many new friends in the process)! http://boffosocko.com/2018/04/23/9000-comments-and-reactions/ (twitter.com/_/status/988543380387840000)
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tantek wow
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@EddieHinkle @johnbrayton Adding Microsub servers would be an excellent addition to Unread! Microsub is a client-Server communication spec that allows for people to host their own RSS feeds and use different clients to see the data: https://indieweb.org/Microsub-spec (twitter.com/_/status/988546941687562241)
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[eddie] What is Unread?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Unread" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Unread is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[eddie] Unread is an RSS reader that supports different backend syncing services. They are considering adding support for Microsub servers.
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /Unread (+158) "prompted by [eddie] and dfn added by [eddie]" (view diff)
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[eddie] Unread << https://micro.blog/johnbrayton/507115
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Loqi ok, I added "https://micro.blog/johnbrayton/507115" to a brand new "See Also" section of /Unread https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=47167&oldid=47166
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loqi.me edited /Unread (+57) "[eddie] added "https://micro.blog/johnbrayton/507115" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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Loqi [johnbrayton] @EddieHinkle Thank you for the suggestion. I was not aware of Microsub. I will look into this and consider it for a future version of Unread.
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[eddie] Microsub++
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Loqi microsub has 3 karma in this channel (4 overall)
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aaronpk i just realized that if i have physical oauth tokens to give out to people, i should make them do an oauth dance first
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: you should spec it out ;)
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aaronpk put your right hand in, put your right hand out, put your right hand in, then you shake it all about
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KartikPrabhu do the oauthy dancey, do the oauthy dancey
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KartikPrabhu and that's what it's all about
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skippy i'm still fuzzy as to how a micropub posted entry would reference an attached photo in the body of said entry at time of composition.
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skippy Say I'm composing something in Indigenous for Android, and I attach a photo. That photo will be in the properties, but then how would I display it wihitn my post body?
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KartikPrabhu skippy: the photo url will be in the properties presumably
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aaronpk do you mean from the server's perspective?
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KartikPrabhu also see: https://indieweb.org/Micropub#Adding_Files
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aaronpk i'm trying to understand the question
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aaronpk there are two things
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skippy sure. Let me back up.
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aaronpk for photo posts, where the photo is considered to be separate from the text content, the client sends the "content" property with the text and the "photo" property with either the URL of the previously-uploaded image or the multipart file upload
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aaronpk for blog posts that contain embedded images, the client would send "content" as html, with <img> tags with the src set to the URLs it got from uploading the photos to the media endpoint
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skippy say I'm using Indigenous (or whatever) that sends h-entry AND photo as multi-part form submission. I compose a new article. This article has a title, and body text. I also add an image. The image gets uploaded along with the text, so it has no URL until the server processes it.
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skippy so I can't link to it from the body of the text in my entry.