#dev 2018-05-05

2018-05-05 UTC
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aaronpk That sounds easily spammable
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tantek.com edited /Webmention-faq (+456) "/* How do you know if a website uses webmentions? */ Idea webmentions" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /buttons (+812) "Brainstorming for Webmentions Accepted" (view diff)
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jmac aaronpk: I'm not sure how "Target URL, except encoded in this particular way" is more spammable than "target URL, rendered literally" ?
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jmac Meanwhile my post got its first webmention from micro.blog! And my hand-rolled MF2 parser choked on it! And I bet myself a dollar it's because the first MF2 element says `class="post_avatar p-author h-card"`, and my parser only gets as far as the p-author before seeing it's not inside an h- item and so gives up. har har.
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[manton] @jmac Yeah, the Micro.blog conversation pages are a little weird in that they include multiple posts, and each one gets some MF2 markup, but only one (the one being linked to) is wrapped in an h-entry.
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jmac That should be fine... it's more that my parser was deeply offended that "p-something" appeared *before* "h-something" in a class and so packed up and left
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jmac Also, hi, micro.blog is cool and a boon to the world, please order your classes however you please and I'll fix my parser
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[manton] Thanks! 🙂
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@natecull ↩️ I've been on Mastodon for over a year, surrounded by alt-web types, and have heard *zero* mention of IndieWeb or Webmention. I've heard active discussions of ActivityPub, the Fediverse, Scuttlebutt, blockchains, Diaspora, Xanadu, even *Gopher*. Indieweb? Not a word. (twitter.com/_/status/992581548938477570)
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jmac [manton] (et al): I am scratching my head over how to extract John Philpin's name from this source doc: https://micro.blog/JohnPhilpin/537165
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Loqi [JohnPhilpin] @jmac maybe more than ‘believe in itself’ - I think there are some skill sets missing ....
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jmac His h-card contains only photo and url properties
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jmac Is this one of those cases where I'm expected to go look for author info at the given URL?
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jmac (because my author-parser doesn't do that yet, because math is hard let's go shopping)
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jmac Look, even Loqi did it. Loqi how'd you do that
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aaronpk I didn't think the micro.blog markup required fetching the author page
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@aaronpk ↩️ ActivityPub was developed in literally the same W3C group that Webmention and Micropub were standardized in ;-) btw why no website in your twitter bio? Where can I follow your fediverse posts? (twitter.com/_/status/992590313234427904)
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aaronpk jmac: pin13 doesn't do anything fancy with author parsing, and it has the name http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmicro.blog%2FJohnPhilpin%2F537165
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Loqi [JohnPhilpin] @jmac maybe more than ‘believe in itself’ - I think there are some skill sets missing ....
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jmac Ooh! I didn't know about pin13, that's great
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jmac Oh, I bet it's getting it from the <img> alt attribute
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jmac Which I vaguely recall from the spec, and which I skipped
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jmac I'll go un-skip it
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aaronpk 😂
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aaronpk I didn't actually look at the markup
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aaronpk I try to avoid html if I can
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aaronpk Parsing html anyway
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jmac that's really the only way to be
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aaronpk I see the Web through my... Monocle 😎
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jmac ITYM 🧐
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aaronpk I was going for the sunglasses guy meme
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aaronpk But I'm gonna have to remember that emoji
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@ReBeccaOrg ↩️ Webmention is essentially trackbacks isn't it? The reason those died out was spam. I'm v skeptical about their solutions to that (eg Vouch), as they don't read as meaningfully scaling up to me. (Socially I mean.) (twitter.com/_/status/992610846491664385)
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[tantek] TIL ITYM
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[tantek] I wonder if activitypub could handle a full IG import? And which AP server could handle putting that much into archives?
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tantek or would it publish all that backfill to everyone's inboxes who had subscribed to your account?
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loqi.me created /live_video (+231) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /live_video (+145) "tantek added "[[live]] - watch live video from the current [[IndieWebCamp]], or the most recent recording from the most recent IndieWebCamp" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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eddiehinkle.com edited /live_video (+234) "+ brainstorming" (view diff)
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[eddie] live video << https://aaronparecki.com/2016/11/19/15/self-hosted-facebook-live
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Loqi ok, I added "https://aaronparecki.com/2016/11/19/15/self-hosted-facebook-live" to the "See Also" section of /live_video https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=47508&oldid=47507
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Creating a Self-Hosted Alternative to Facebook Live using Nginx and Micropub
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@kevinmarks ↩️ No, it has verification built in, and some markup conventions to express likes, replies, rsvps etc. https://indieweb.org/Webmention-faq#Why_webmention_instead_of_Trackback (twitter.com/_/status/992667830398128129)
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Zegnat (Devil’s advocate: didn’t pingback have that exact same verification specced out?)
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@JmacDotOrg ↩️ My read is that it’s less trivial to spam than Pingback et al, but is “defeatable” by e.g. making a page with content “Buy Viagra!” followed by a zillion hyperlinks to target domains, then sending webmentions to all. Vouch has promise, but seems untested, with open questions. (twitter.com/_/status/992671419443089413)
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@kevinmarks ↩️ Trackback had a bad cost/benefit tradeoff, as it never showed much more than that a link had been made. Webmention is a lot closer to a twitter @ reply, and so has some of the drawbacks that they do. The difference is that the mitigation of them is under your control. (twitter.com/_/status/992677325874622464)
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@ReBeccaOrg ↩️ I think you're thinking of pingbacks? Trackbacks had content. The only protocol diff I see is that Webmentions have you read the content from the URL with microformats, instead of embeding the content in the update… (twitter.com/_/status/992677747787841536)
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@ReBeccaOrg ↩️ but they had to host content already for the url to have any value… it's literally no extra work… just putting the right tags in that page so that the spam content can be imported. It's _less_ work than implementing the Webmention protocol, which they have to do as well. (twitter.com/_/status/992680743313653760)
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jeremycherfas.net edited /Webmention-faq (+126) "/* Do webmentions work only when both sites use webmentions? */ Editing for clarity" (view diff)
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[jeremycherfas] How important is it to explain the three places where rel=webmention might be found? “HTTP Link Header, an HTML link in the document head or on a hyperlink on the page”.
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[jeremycherfas] I think it is too much detail.
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jeremycherfas.net edited /Webmention-faq (+38) "/* How do you know if a website uses webmentions? */" (view diff)
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@unoabraham Webmention Rocks! https://abraham.link/484/webmention-rocks/ (twitter.com/_/status/992721615015366656)
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vanderven.se martijn moved /2018/Düsseldorf/Sessions to /2018/Düsseldorf/Schedule "Lets try and normalise on this page name."
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@klandwehr Read my May 5 Newsletter featuring “The Indieweb privacy challenge (Webmentions, silo backfeeds, and the GDPR) …” http://nzzl.us/vld1duX (twitter.com/_/status/992738805001129984)
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@jkphl Session about private posts / a permission layer for #webmentions at the @indiewebcamp Düsseldorf 2018 https://t.co/KwnQdbB3Hv (twitter.com/_/status/992754726801477632)
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[tantek] That thread abut webmentions is not showing replies nor reply context on either mobile web twitter or mobile app. Wish kevinmarks or jmac were POSSEing those replies so I could see the originals with on their own sites since Twitter is failing to show that
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jmac [tantek]: I don't disagree with your frustration but I'm not sure what you're asking that I do?
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jmac You're suggesting I manually syndicate those twitter-orginating replies onto fogknife.com?
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jmac (I know that Bridgy can help with that)
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[tantek] jmac the other way around. Post the replies on your website first and auto-POSSE them to twitter including threading with the tweets you’re replying to.
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jmac Sure. But none of these people are me. :)
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[tantek] More on how to do this on /Twitter
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[tantek] Oh what. Then I’m confusing you jmac with @jmacdotorg oops
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jmac Beyond that I'm afraid I don't have the infrastructure to post proper Note posts (though I mean to, someday...)
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jmac Alas, I am Twitter's jmacdotorg
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[tantek] Goals! :)
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jmac But all those threaded replies to my original (POSSE'd!) tweet-link to my article are not written by me
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[tantek] This one? http://twtr.io/1dW6ZaYLDiZ
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@JmacDotOrg @ReBeccaOrg @kevinmarks My read is that it’s less trivial to spam than Pingback et al, but is “defeatable” by e.g. making a page with content “Buy Viagra!” followed by a zillion hyperlinks to target domains, then sending webmentions to all. Vouch has promise, but seems untested, with open questions. (twitter.com/_/status/992671419443089413)
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jmac Oh, fair
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jmac Well, yes, then. Goals.
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jmac Fogknife is really only set up for Articles right now. All its IndieWeb ability is a retrofit, and gradual
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[tantek] Either way thanks for participating in the discussion here and on twitter. Appreciated!
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jmac The blog is running me own bloggy software since 2014, and I've only known about IndieWeb since February of this year. (And Mr. Aldrich is correct with his implied request else-channel that I wikify the software I'm using, already)
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jmac And FWIW, when I load e.g. https://twitter.com/ReBeccaOrg/status/992680743313653760 on my phone, I do indeed see the whole thread, going back to my original post? (Which doesn't help you, sorry)
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@ReBeccaOrg @kevinmarks @JmacDotOrg but they had to host content already for the url to have any value… it's literally no extra work… just putting the right tags in that page so that the spam content can be imported. It's _less_ work than implementing the Webmention protocol, which they have to do as well. (twitter.com/_/status/992680743313653760)
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jmac It's also confusing that i have two domains, but I think that I have metadata'd them up properly so that they all point to me. In fact, doing so was the first technical help I received on these IRC channels in February. :)
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sknebel [eddie], you around?
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[eddie] Hey sknebel! I am for a few, heading out shortly though 🙂 what’s up?
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[eddie] Ohh haha it’s been over an hour, I’m guessing this was answered in IndieWeb channel then 🙂
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@martijnvdven ↩️ Crossposting to an IndieWeb friendly website shouldn’t be too hard to implement. Most use the W3C Rec for publishing: https://www.w3.org/TR/micropub/ It could even cover WordPress: https://github.com/snarfed/wordpress-micropub (Hello from the IndieWeb chat, where this Twitter conversation popped up! 👋) (twitter.com/_/status/992793305774723078)
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sknebel Eddie: I can't figure out what url I have to login with into your aperture instance, can you look up what you put in as my identity?
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sknebel (not urgent, would be nice tomorrow to demo it)
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@vincentlistens @aaronpk http://Webmention.io noob question. Is there anything bad someone could do with my access token? As in, should I be storing this outside my repo code? (twitter.com/_/status/992839080374304768)
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@andrewsreading ✌ @Reading "The Indieweb privacy challenge (Webmentions, silo backfeeds, and the GDPR)" http://ing.am/p/4Ynj (twitter.com/_/status/992843543084494849)
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schmarty whew! i have moved all but 6 feeds that i follow from ttrss to aperture.
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schmarty sweats a little that aperture has no OPML export
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schmarty i'll try to investigate soon why aperture doesn't seem to understand those 6 feeds. i'd like to shut down my ttrss instance soon.
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Zegnat That sounds amazing schmarty! Blog post coming about it?
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sknebel schmarty: generic microsub-OPML tools would be nice (import/export)!
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@andrewsreading ✌ @Reading "Reply to The Indieweb privacy challenge (Webmentions, silo backfeeds, and the GDPR) by Sebastian Grege…" http://ing.am/p/4Ynw (twitter.com/_/status/992878748667170816)
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@andrewmaier GO ON. 🍿 "<warning>this is the point where this article shifts from user-centred design into privacy geekery and opinionated nitpicking ;)</warning>" https://sebastiangreger.net/2018/05/indieweb-privacy-challenge-webmentions-backfeeds-gdpr/ (twitter.com/_/status/992883313852473345)
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gRegorLove Looks like kylewm missed the domain renewal for woodwind.xyz
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snarfed yup a bit ago
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jacky :(
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GWG I miss kylewm
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Loqi misses kylewm too
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schmarty zegnat: i'm not sure what would go in a blog post about it, yet. i'll think on it!
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gRegorLove misses kylewm three