#dev 2018-05-23

2018-05-23 UTC
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[manton] Cool. I need to figure out what to do then because this breaks people using OwnYourGram with Micro.blog if they use Twitter auth. Hmm. I might need to bump up the priority on Micro.blog becoming an auth provider.
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GWG [manton]: Lately, for me, it seems like I've broken too many people's sites.
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[miklb] GWG on that ticket, is entry-content the class on the article or a div inside the article?
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GWG A div inside, I believe
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[miklb] commented
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jgmac1106 [GWG] Please know people don’t really think that at all. You make our sites happen
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GWG I meant on the IndieAuth front
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jgmac1106 On any front, when you play in other people’s backgrounds rules change and thing sbreak noone expects a one man army to hold the line all the time
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jgmac1106 If I put a url behind a wrapper would it get a different kind of markup or still u-url?
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[kevinmarks] What's a wrapper in this context?
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snarfed oh boy the twitter html changes broke bridgy/granary's scraping too 😭
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aaronpk oh noooo
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aaronpk [manton]: yes please and I will gladly walk you through making that happen
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aaronpk I promise it won't be as hard as it sounds
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Ruxton aaronpk: I read that and wrote half it already ;)
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aaronpk excellent
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aaronpk everybody gets an indieauth server
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Ruxton if i get it finished :P
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Ruxton oh wait, confused that wth something else from other chan :P
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Ruxton too many channels! :)
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aaronpk haha what are you doing then
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Ruxton i saw this https://github.com/dshanske/indieweb-post-kinds/issues/165 somewhere earlier and started coding it, completely unrelated
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Loqi [scottmallinson] #165 Alternative URL to /kind/
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Ruxton derp
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aaronpk haha cool
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@bastianallgeier ↩️ 😱 And afterwards he’s going to hang out with you to discuss the OAuth implementation on his website and that he wants to integrate webmentions next but still isn’t sure if his PHP skills are enough. 😱😱😱 (twitter.com/_/status/999178159139491840)
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jgmac1106 [kevinmarks] ttps://via.hypothes.is/https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/40040/the-benefits-of-helping-preschoolers-understand-and-discuss-their-emotions
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jgmac1106 https://via.hypothes.is/https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/40040/the-benefits-of-helping-preschoolers-understand-and-discuss-their-emotions I just used u-url
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@jgmac1106 Can we have an #IndieWeb webmentions credentialing system? #OpenBadges: https://jgregorymcverry.com/can-we-have-an-indieweb-webmentions-credentialing-system-openbadges/ https://t.co/BPc4XL5HXJ (twitter.com/_/status/999240790323924992)
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Zegnat jgmac1106, just read your blog post, and am wondering about those ledgers. Can those be defined in some non-centralised way? Are they just an overview or are they essential for making the ecosystem work?
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Zegnat Going to give this some thought over lunch and possibly write a reply :)
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jgmac1106 [zegnat] ny university would want record
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jgmac1106 it is also how the badging ecosystem works, so my mind may have been stuck, you have issuers and then folks have a display like Mozilla BackPack
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jgmac1106 but I was thinking if I did shut down my site, or my student shut down her site, I would like evidence of the badge to live on
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jgmac1106 [zegnat] not sure if a double webmention, plus a parser is possible, there is no markup on my site for criteria and evidence, all theoretical with little to no understanding of how the plumbing works
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skippy re: post-type-discovery -- in a general sense, can a "note" contain a photo without making that a photo post?
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sknebel yes, don't mark it up as a photo property
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skippy i'm trying to figure out how to discern in my Micropub endpoint whether an item with a photo is a photo post, or an article with a photo, or a note with a photo....
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skippy "if it has a name, and more than 50 characters of text, it's an article" seems easy. but "no name with more than 50 characters of text makes it a note with a photo" seems a little more arbitrary...
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sknebel yeah, micropub is a bit annoying there. the client could upload a photo to the media endpoint and then link it from an <img> tag in the html content to create a post containing a photo
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sknebel no photo property set -> not a photo post
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skippy but not all micropub clients support media endpoints in that way. some of them only do form-encoded photo uploads along with the body of the text
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sknebel then they can't create non-photo posts
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skippy that seems ... sub-optimal.
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[jgmac1106] i stick photos in non-photo posts alot
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snarfed lots more research on the twitter HTML changes that removed the likes i scrape for bridgy. plenty of dead ends; no closer to a solution. :/
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snarfed https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/823#issuecomment-391352034
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Loqi [snarfed] more research, based on viewing https://twitter.com/schnarfed/status/627581493137637376 while logged out: facepile in the html includes both retweets and likes, and doesn't distinguish between them: ```html <li class="avatar-row js-face-pile-c...
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petermolnar fyi: self hosted, pre-trained image recognition in python: https://opensource.com/article/18/5/getting-started-luminoth - from my initial tests, it requires a significant amount of resources, but the "fast" set is reasonable
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[miklb] !tell [eddie] I’m still having an issue authenticating with Indigenous and my WP site. How best should I debug/troubleshoot? Quill authenticates just fine as a reference.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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skippy waves at [miklb]
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[miklb] howdy skippy!
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skippy hi hi!
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[miklb] I forget who developed Omnibear
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[jgmac1106] [unoabraham] this is 9.2 (didn't have sftp set up on work laptop) but made this: https://bookmarks.jgregorymcverry.com/
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skippy Keith Grant I think
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[jgmac1106] yes Kieth Grant
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[jgmac1106] [unoabraham] I can set it to public or private and then add the WordPress plug-in when a bookmark goes from private to public if I want to share
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[miklb] !tell [keithjgrant] Omnibear hangs retrieving the access token for my WP site. Quill authenticates fine as a reference. Any suggestions on how to debug/troubleshoot?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[miklb] I think they both are hanging on a redirect, but I’m not sure how/where to look.
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[miklb] I suspect I should try disabling my 2fa plugin, though Quill handles it just fine.
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[keithjgrant] Are you on FF or Chrome?
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[miklb] I tested FF Nightly & Canary, both same behavior
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[miklb] want me to test stable?
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[keithjgrant] No, that shouldn't matter
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[miklb] it hangs on teh “retrieving access token…” screen
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[jgmac1106] I get hung up here: Authentication successful Retrieving access token... as well, but I know my micropub endpoints are broken
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[keithjgrant] In FF, go to about:debugging
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[keithjgrant] Check enable add-on debugging
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[keithjgrant] Then open debugger for Omnibear
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[keithjgrant] You can inspect the network requests
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[keithjgrant] See if anything pops out there
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[miklb] not really I see a 304 for “https://omnibear.com/auth/success/?code=”
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[miklb] with a full code
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[keithjgrant] omnibear.com is returning 304?
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[keithjgrant] Does your endpoint return syndicate-to data?
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[miklb] it should
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[miklb] https://miklb-images.s3.amazonaws.com/omnibear..png
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[miklb] it should == yes, I have syndicate-to targets
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[keithjgrant] Oh, 304 means not modified. Should be ok.
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[keithjgrant] If you open up settings, do you have any Authentication details set?
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[miklb] it’s not getting the token it appears
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[miklb] in the settings.
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[keithjgrant] I think my next task is going to be better logging
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[keithjgrant] A lot of these issues, but no visibility into what's happening
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[keithjgrant] (that and fixing reply-to, because that big is just embarrassing)
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[keithjgrant] s/big/bug
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sknebel logging++
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Loqi logging has 1 karma in this channel (2 overall)
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[miklb] no worries, just checking if anything I can do on my side. Had a few minutes to update a few things and test where they stand.
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skippy i'm waiting for syndication to work before i can use omnibear regularly.
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skippy i very much want to use it, so i dont have to copy-paste tweet URLs into quill
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[eddie] [miklb] You're using the latest IndieAuth plugin code? Are you using the rel-me or self-hosted endpoint?
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[miklb] self hosted.
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[miklb] I think. Not sure I follow the question.
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[miklb] Eddie, after it authenticates, it reloads the 2fa screen.
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[eddie] Hmmmm. 🤔 I'm trying to think how to debug this
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[eddie] I'm almost wondering if the 2fa is messing with state
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[eddie] But it works with quill
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[miklb] I do see in the auth screen from WP “warning the redirect URL this app is using does not match the domain of the client ID”
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[eddie] oh!
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[eddie] That might be it
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[eddie] The wordpress IndieAuth plugin doesn
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[eddie] doesn't check for the redirect_uri from the client_id's website
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[miklb] should I file an issue for that?
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[eddie] https://github.com/indieweb/wordpress-indieauth/issues/41
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Loqi [dshanske] #41 Redirect_URI whitelist
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[eddie] It's that one
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[eddie] So maybe just +1 it or something :)
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Zegnat Anyone ever used selfauth with Indigenous? Now I am wondering about compatibility with everything.
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[eddie] I'm not sure, that's a great question
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skippy i still dont have a microsub server, so cant test indigenous.
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skippy though I DID use Indigenous for Android with selfauth, now that I think about it.
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skippy still waiting on an Indigenous for iOS invite...
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[eddie] I should probably remove the "24 hour" thing from the email form. haha It's been more like once a week
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[eddie] I see your registration :) I'll add you
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Loqi definitely
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skippy :heart: thanks!
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[eddie] My pleasure :) (also both Indigenous apps should work without microsub, but only for posting not reading)
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swentel can confirm :)
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skippy aye. i have a desire for microsub; but i did use (and will use) micropub
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Zegnat I should test the Android one for Micropubbing to my offline micropub set up. But I am not sure I even have the app.
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Zegnat What is Indigenous?
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Loqi Indigenous is a set of native apps for iOS and Android currently in beta that supports posting your website using Micropub and a built-in reader that supports Microsub https://indieweb.org/Indigenous
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swentel Zegnat, if you have gmail address, I can add you
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swentel or you can even download it from github
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swentel I always put the apks on there too
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skippy f-droid!
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Loqi I agree
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skippy https://f-droid.org/
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swentel that's the plan, haven't got there yet
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swentel bit of a hassle to set it up
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swentel (or I'm reading it wrong)
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Zegnat It has to build on their build servers for it to be on FDroid, right?
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Zegnat I do have a gmail address. Let me /msg you, swentel
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skippy no clue. never tried to publish an app; only ever installed.
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[jgmac1106] @indigenous is awesome
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swentel yeah, it needs to be build there
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swentel which is fine
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GWG What's the redirect uri issue?
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GWG It doesn't check the headers and just issues a warning if not on the same domain?
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sknebel but it's supposed to do the redirect anyways?
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GWG It does
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GWG I got the idea from aaronpk because no one seems to be adding headers
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sknebel so https://github.com/indieweb/wordpress-indieauth/issues/41 is outdated? (last post by aaronpk shows an error message?)
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Loqi [dshanske] #41 Redirect_URI whitelist
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GWG It still redirects
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sknebel ok, the {"error":"invalid_grant","error_description":"Redirect not on same host as client"} sounded different
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GWG That message was removed in favor of aaronpk's warning suggestion
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GWG But it still doesn't check headers
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sknebel k
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GWG I just wonder if I bit off more than I can chew with an IndieAuth endpoint
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[keithjgrant] Indieauth.com isn't reading rel=me links on Twitter. Is the t.co redirect breaking it?
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sknebel no, they changed their markup
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sknebel no rel=me anymore
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GWG I need to work with Micropub clients and people having problems to make it work
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sknebel GWG: don't think so, it seems like it's mostly working just fine, and most issues don't seem to be with your work
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[jgmac1106] and this is probably why all my webmentions from myself are being marked as spam comments
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GWG It works for me
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jgmac1106_ micropub doesn’t work for me for other unknown reasons
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pstuifzand skippy, did you try to use ekster?
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skippy pstuifzand: i wasnt able to figure out how to tie all the pieces together.
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pstuifzand did docker-compose up not work?
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skippy it did, but then what? how do i integrate it with my site?
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pstuifzand I think you use nginx-proxy right?
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skippy i use Caddy
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pstuifzand ok
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pstuifzand what is caddy?
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Loqi Caddy is an HTTP/2 web server, built for designers, bloggers and developers, with a simple configuration and automatic TLS https://indieweb.org/Caddy
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pstuifzand Can you proxy a port with that?
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skippy sure
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pstuifzand I created a virtual host with "microsub.example.com" as domainname
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pstuifzand and added https://microsub.example.com/microsub as on microsub endpoint on my website
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pstuifzand like this: <link rel="microsub" href="https://microsub.stuifzandapp.com/microsub">
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www.boffosocko.com edited /use_case (+33) "onboarding and personas links in see also" (view diff)
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skippy ok. let me try.
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[keithjgrant] @sknebel really? I see rel="me nofollow noopener" on my Twitter profile
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Zegnat [keithjgrant], how are you viewing that HTML? Have you tried curl? ;)
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[keithjgrant] Seriously, they're serving different markup to the browser than curl? 😩
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aaronpk changed the error on indieauth.com to hopefully tell people it's not their fault twitter isn't working
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aaronpk [keithjgrant]: even with "view source" in my browser I just see a tiny bit of HTML that does a weird redirect
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aaronpk https://gist.github.com/aaronpk/90f7d8493be2ba8836868c7cdac0d9f8
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aaronpk they set a cookie then make you reload the page with that cookie
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aaronpk which is like... no
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aaronpk how many ways can they try to break the web
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Zegnat In other words, they always want to have a session going for every visitor? I guess is what that does
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skippy pstuifzand: welp, now alltogethernow.io is telling me it cant find an auth URL, even though indieauth.com works fine...
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skippy so i cant even see if ekster is working.
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pstuifzand did you add the microsub link ?
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pstuifzand which url do you use?
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skippy https://skippy.rocks/
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pstuifzand and monocle?
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pstuifzand what is monocle?
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Loqi Monocle is an open source IndieWeb-enabled reader developed by Aaron Parecki https://indieweb.org/Monocle
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skippy missing_endpoint
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skippy We didn't find a Micropub endpoint at your website
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skippy monocle needs both pub and sub
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sknebel hm... add a dummy one?
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pstuifzand I see ekster running, it responds with the very helpful: Can't validate token
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skippy yeah, let me get micropub going on this domain.
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sknebel maybe even any url works
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sknebel assuming it handles failures for config lookups gracefully
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pstuifzand micropub itself is not needed, but I guess no one uses it without one
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aaronpk oh did I make monocle require a micropub endpoint?
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skippy ok, with a micropub endpoint defined, monocle lets me log in
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aaronpk I thought it was optional
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aaronpk whoops
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pstuifzand skippy, do you see some of the predefined channels?
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skippy i do.
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pstuifzand nice
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skippy Friends and Family
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pstuifzand so that part is working
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pstuifzand monocle doesn't have the interface for adding feeds, but Together does
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pstuifzand Can you login with Together?
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skippy ah, with micropub i can get into together, now.
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pstuifzand I think that should be optional as well
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skippy it should be, but is not.
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aaronpk file an issue on monocle for that for me?
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pstuifzand you can add feeds with the (+) on the right
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pstuifzand the easiest is to input the full url of something that has MF2 html, or some sort of feed: RSS, Atom, Json feed
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skippy how do i refresh the feed i added?
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pstuifzand you can't
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pstuifzand Together uses a two step approach for adding feeds
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pstuifzand First you search and second you preview one the feeds
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skippy got that. then i follow it.
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pstuifzand So you can see if the url contains something that works with the microsub server
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pstuifzand yes
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skippy ive added two feeds, but nothing is hsowing up in Together
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pstuifzand sometimes you need to click one of the other channels
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skippy ah, there we go.
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pstuifzand Also you can few the feeds in Monocle as well now
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pstuifzand s/few/view/
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pstuifzand added the issue
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pstuifzand https://github.com/aaronpk/Monocle/issues/20
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Loqi [pstuifzand] #20 Make "micropub" endpoint optional when signing in
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skippy neat. thanks.
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pstuifzand it will now try to fetch the feeds every hour
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pstuifzand which should be made smarter
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pstuifzand also if the feeds support WebSub or Pubsubhubbub, it will subscribe to the hub
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skippy whoops, thought i was commenting on the together repo, not monocole!
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skippy deleted thgat comment
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skippy i dont know what that means.
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skippy hub?
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pstuifzand Some feeds support websub, added items will be fetched in realtime when a post was added
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pstuifzand what is websub
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Loqi WebSub (previously known as PubSubHubbub or PuSH, and briefly PubSub) is a notification-based protocol for web publishing and subscribing to streams and legacy feed files in real time https://indieweb.org/WebSub
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skippy oh. ok.
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pstuifzand I have to go now, bye!
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skippy thank you!
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aaronpk pstuifzand: oh nice you implemented websub support?
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skippy monocle is not showing the new categories i've created in Together.
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aaronpk monocle refreshes the channels only periodically. if you mark something as read it'll trigger an update too
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aaronpk there's also a reload button here https://monocle.p3k.io/debug
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skippy no change after clikcing that. hrm.
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aaronpk er, there are two reload buttons
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aaronpk scroll down to "cached channels"
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skippy yeah, i did.
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mylesb.ca edited /Mastodon (+152) "rel=me is now supported in Mastodon 2.4.0" (view diff)
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tantek.com moved /2018/Sessions to /2018/Schedule "that's where it has been in previous year"
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tantek.com deleted /2018/Schedule "Deleted to make way for move from "[[2018/Sessions]]""
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tantek.com edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (+2) "summit emoji" (view diff)
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www.boffosocko.com edited /micro.blog (+179) "/* Resources */ great list of Micro.wiki, Resources for Micro.blog" (view diff)
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snarfed woo, found a fix for scraping twitter likes! i have to send a user agent that pretends i'm a browser. whee.
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snarfed found it in https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Freext.ru%2Fblog%2F%3Fp%3D214 (scroll down to "UPDATE 05/23/2018")
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aaronpk hm is it that easy? I thought indieauth.com was already sending headers like that
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[tantek] Maybe I need to read logs but did Twitter profile rel=me markup change recently?
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aaronpk yep like 2 days ago
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[tantek] (Just saw a failure from the RelMeAuth library)
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[tantek] Uh oh
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aaronpk not even markup change, completely breaking http requests
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aaronpk view source in your browser and you'll see it too
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[tantek] Whoa - like blocking curl?
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snarfed aaronpk: i've only tested browser user agent with the favorites endpoint, eg https://twitter.com/i/activity/favorited_popup?id=998777664868532224
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aaronpk [tantek]: https://media.aaronpk.com/Screen-Shot-2018-05-23-10-13-02-JjCyRasYSJ.jpg
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[miklb] lol
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[tantek] Wat so they want us to forge http referer?
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KartikPrabhu wth! did twitter do to the source!
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[tantek] It’s got to be an anti crawling measure against bots
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[tantek] Arms race!
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KartikPrabhu lol! twitter profiles now don't evne load without JS
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KartikPrabhu twitter--
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Loqi twitter has -1 karma in this channel (-9 overall)
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swentel Ooh, that's why likes were not coming in anymore possibly with bridgy snarfed? Or that link is not related?
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snarfed swentel: yeah, https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/823
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Loqi [snarfed] #823 twitter html changes broke scraping for likes
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swentel bah
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swentel stupid twitter
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[tantek] Hey they have a noscript tag with a link “Continue”
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aaronpk I think it still relies on cookies
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[tantek] How? Is it setting them in the http header?
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aaronpk yea
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[tantek] Gah
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[keithjgrant] What a cluster
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tglobe doing all the clicking you get to the mobile site (https://mobile.twitter.com/argovaerts for example)
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[tantek] snarfed are you seeing the Bridgy Publish errors trying to react 🎉 to a comment?
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snarfed [tantek]: just now yes. haven't investigated
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[tantek] http://tantek.com/2018/143/t3/
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Loqi [Tantek Çelik] 🎉
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[tantek] First time I’ve tried that particular reaction with bridgy publish
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snarfed the emoji itself is fine
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snarfed github api is returning 404 to the "create reaction" request
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snarfed can't tell if that implies they don't think the comment exists (even though it does in the issue page)
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[tantek] Are they blocking it because the issue is closed?
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[tantek] Worth filing a bug against the Github API? You already doing that or?
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snarfed doubt it. i made that reaction myself manually just now, worked fine
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[tantek] (Yeah manually the UI lets me)
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[tantek] Sounds like api big
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snarfed yeah maybe
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[tantek] Bug - wow autocorrect really doesn’t like that word
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[tantek] autocorrect—
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[tantek] Lol
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[tantek] autocorrect--
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Loqi autocorrect has -1 karma in this channel (-8 overall)
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snarfed try again in a bit, or tomorrow? if it's still broken then we can report somehow
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[tantek] Haha! Silly autocorrect trying to stop me from --
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snarfed hmm actually https://developer.github.com/v3/troubleshooting/#why-am-i-getting-a-404-error-on-a-repository-that-exists says 404s can be caused by bad auth
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snarfed try re-authing github on bridgy?
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snarfed [tantek]: also have you ever bridgy published anything on that repo before? this says orgs can block API write access: https://developer.github.com/changes/2015-01-19-an-integrators-guide-to-organization-application-policies/
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[tantek] Hmm never tried on that repo before
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[tantek] Trying re-with
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[tantek] re-auth
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[tantek] if org is blocking then the error should be 403 not 404
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[tantek] re-authing didn’t help
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snarfed thanks for trying
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[tantek] So either way they (gh api) have a bug 🐛
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snarfed yeah, either that or something we don't know yet
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sknebel snarfed: you could maybe use https://developer.github.com/v3/guides/discovering-resources-for-a-user/#discover-the-repositories-that-your-app-can-access-for-a-user to show a list of places it does work?
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snarfed sknebel: thanks! if we knew it was an auth problem, maybe yes, but we haven't concluded that (yet)
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snarfed filed https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/824
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Loqi [snarfed] #824 404s from github API for publish
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sknebel but if the repo is in there that'd be a sign that it's something else
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snarfed sure. eg a bug
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[tantek] Ok switching my reaction to target that bug snarfed
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[tantek] So that worked. So I can at least react with 🎉
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gRegorLove_ [tantek] https://indieweb.org/Twitter#Breaks_RelMeAuth
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tantek_ :sadface:
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tantek_ does the mobile version have the rel=me markup?
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tantek_ hmm https://mobile.twitter.com/i/nojs_router?path=@t doesn't seem to help
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tantek_ I mean https://mobile.twitter.com/i/nojs_router?path=@t
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tantek_ wat
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gRegorLove_ No rel-me on mobile :/
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tantek_ I'm pasting a URL in the Web chat UI and it's mucking it up with that target= garbager
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tantek_ https://mobile.twitter.com/i/nojs_router?path=%2Ft
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tantek_ huh that worked
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tantek_ weird
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gRegorLove_ HTTP 405
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tantek_ so if a URL has an @ in it, it screws up the web chat UI here
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tantek_ what is 405
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "405" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "405 is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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tantek_ looks to see if chrisaldrich is around and tempted to insert a defunition relating to LA
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tantek_ oh wait what about the intent profile
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tantek_ A-HA! https://twitter.com/intent/user?screen_name=t
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tantek_ view source
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tantek_ <a class="url external" rel="me" href="https://t.co/imeZHaJsth">http://tantek.com/</a>
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tantek_ SOOOOOO tempted to update CASSIS auto_link to now link @-names to the twitter intent profiles
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KartikPrabhu will they last?
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tantek_ you'll have to ask benward
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tantek_ does anything "last"?
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tantek_ point being, it works today, while "normal" profiles don't. therefore it is a workaround
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KartikPrabhu I meant even in the short term given that Twitter is already mucking around with HTML
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Zegnat Ooh, that page even has hcard support?!
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tantek_ oh yeah
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tantek_ thanks again to benward
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tantek_ benward++
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Loqi benward has 1 karma in this channel (6 overall)
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Zegnat Seems to work decently, not sure why the URL to your website is an adr: https://pin13.net/mf2-dev/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fintent%2Fuser%3Fscreen_name%3Dt
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pstuifzand aaronpk, re: websub support in ekster. yes, but it's not complete, still needs resubscribing and better hub url finding in feeds
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pstuifzand it only support huburls in HTTP Link headers with rel="hub"
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aaronpk Cool, you're one step ahead of Aperture at least!
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pstuifzand How much of the Microsub protocol does Aperture support?
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aaronpk Everything except mute/block
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aaronpk But it doesn't do WebSub at all, it's all polling
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pstuifzand mute and block I also skipped for now
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pstuifzand WebSub is pretty cool to see working the first time
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tantek_ I've changed my twitter rel=me link to use the intent profile URL on my home page
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tantek_ now looking into seeing if RelMeAuth can work with that
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pstuifzand Write a post, switch to Monocle and it's already there
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tantek_ aaronpk can you see if IndieAuth (the service) is able to do rel=me confirmation on tantek.com -> new twitter profile?
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tantek_ (and if not, why? e.g. t.co problem or what)
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Zegnat I am not an IndieAuth.com expert, but I am guessing it doesn’t work because the intent URL does not match this regex: https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth.com/blob/b0376a1f55d3eec533906f1f306a97b085e3b7a9/models/provider.rb#L33
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aaronpk correct, plus I just disabled twitter completely on it
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KartikPrabhu ha!
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aaronpk it has to know it's a twitter URL in order to do Twitter auth, so there isn't really any point in doing the bidirectional rel=me check for links it doesn't know about, which is why that URL regex is in there in the first place
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[grantcodes] Hmm I just realised if micropub supports proper querying, that is like the final part of it becoming usable as a headless cms of sorts 🤔
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Zegnat I thought aaronpk is already effectively using p3k as a “headless” cms?
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aaronpk depends on your definition
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aaronpk [grantcodes]: the other way to think about it is using micropub + microsub to make a headless CMS. https://stream.indieweb.org is actually a microsub channel for example.
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[grantcodes] Yeah, potentially
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[grantcodes] But that would be strange I think because microsub has a different goal
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[grantcodes] For a cms you don't need the reader parts (unread etc)
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[grantcodes] Also to meet the spec there would need to be the juggling between mf2 and jf2
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aaronpk yeah again it depends on your definition of "headless cms"
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aaronpk I'm pretty sure I'm gonna switch the wiki over to indielogin.com as soon as I finish email authentication on it
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[grantcodes] My personal definition is it is completely decoupled and handles storing, updating and retrieving data. The test is if it can run on a different server to the frontend of the site
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[grantcodes] Sort of along the lines of what [cleverdevil] is working on, not sure how he is planning to retrieve the data from his micropub endpoint
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[cleverdevil] // a wild cleverdevil appears //
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[cleverdevil] I sort of abandoned the approach because it would require a lot more API design.
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[miklb] !tell [eddie] seems disabling my 2fa plugin I was able to authenticate with my WP site.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk oh gosh, there are 50 people who have used PGP auth on indieauth.com in the last few months. I might have to launch that on indielogin.com too then
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[miklb] no such luck with Omnibear
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[cleverdevil] I'd like to see Micropub be expanded to include some additional querying features (or maybe another standard?) that makes it much easier to create headless CMS
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[cleverdevil] (In fact, it would enable developers to simply adopt an existing Micropub server and then create a lightweight CMS on top!)
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aaronpk we just need a few more people to start doing it https://indieweb.org/Micropub-brainstorming#Query_for_post_list
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[cleverdevil] nods
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[cleverdevil] I'll likely take a crack at some point, but I've been so busy lately I haven't had time to iterate on puny much 😕
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[miklb] !tell [eddie] strike that, it just logged me into my WP site, didn’t redirect back
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[grantcodes] [miklb] If you have issues with omnibear and together it is likely to do with my micropub library
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[miklb] [grantcodes] no, just trying to use it as a micropub client in the browser
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[miklb] I haven’t gotten around to setting things up to use Together or microsub (websub?)
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[miklb] me too 🙂
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[eddie] [miklb] aww :( I was excited thinking it was working lol
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[miklb] but I can eliminate the 2fa plugin from the equation now at least
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[grantcodes] Ah well I mean omnibear uses my library for auth and micropub posting
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[eddie] grantcodes: is the redirect uri the same domain as the client Id for omnibear
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[eddie] Or are you redirecting to a local browser url?
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Zegnat redirect uri should be the same. I believe the addon intercepts it, that’s how it can get away with just using the omnibear domain
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[grantcodes] Not 100% sure how [keithjgrant] set that part up but it definitely redirects to a http(s) url
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Zegnat is working from memory though
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www.boffosocko.com edited /Indieweb_for_Journalism (+250) "I Annotate conference 2018" (view diff)
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[keithjgrant] Yeah, it redirects to a page on Omnibear.com
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[eddie] Ohhh hmmm
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[eddie] That’s not the issue of with omnibear then
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[grantcodes] [miklb] you're running the current version of omnibear from the chrome / firefox store?
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[miklb] I assume so. I’m not that familiar with Firefox these days and how extensions get updated. I thought it was automatic
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[keithjgrant] Yeah, it should be automatic (within a day or so)
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[miklb] last updated 4/23
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[miklb] 1.0.1
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[keithjgrant] 1.0.1
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[keithjgrant] Yep
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[keithjgrant] Hoping to push an update soon with better logging for debugging
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gRegorLove__ Huh, interesting. How is/are the Twitter intent profiles uses?
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gRegorLove__ s/are/were/
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[grantcodes] Hmm well if it gets as far as the redirect but doesn't close that page it is probably something to do with fetching the token from the token endpoint
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[grantcodes] So [miklb] if you are able to see a request to your token endpoint when debugging, that is probably where to look
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[keithjgrant] There have been some reports of issues fetching syndication endpoints. Though I believe if that fails, closing and re-opening the extension should still have you logged in
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skippy I, too, am curious about the intent profiles.
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skippy https://developer.twitter.com/en/docs/twitter-for-websites/web-intents/overview
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skippy "Web Intents provide popup-optimized flows for working with Tweets & Twitter Users: Tweet, Reply, Retweet, Like, and Follow. They make it possible for users to interact with Twitter content in the context of your site, without leaving the page or having to authorize a new app just for the interaction. Web intents are mobile web friendly, include native app handlers on iOS and Android when the Twitter app is installed, and are super easy to impleme
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KartikPrabhu eh! more twitter JS to include in your own site
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KartikPrabhu boo
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grant.codes edited /Micropub-brainstorming (+593) "/* Query for post list */ Add more details on the type of queries that would be useful" (view diff)
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[miklb] [grantcodes] it doesn’t seem to fetch the token and fill it in the settings. I’ll look at my logs again.
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[grantcodes] hmm since I store my posts in a mongo database as mf2 json I got my micropub endpoint to support queries using the mongo syntax in like 5 minutes work
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[grantcodes] Not sure it is exactly useful for the rest of the indieweb but works a charm
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KartikPrabhu what is mongo?
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Loqi MongoDB is server-side database software used for storage in some CMSes https://indieweb.org/Mongo
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[cleverdevil] I was hoping to do something similar, just with S3, grantcodes.
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[cleverdevil] But, it required too much wrangling.
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[grantcodes] Yeah aws is all a mystery to me
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[cleverdevil] 🙂
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[cleverdevil] I still wish there was an equivalent of SQLite, but for JSON documents.
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[grantcodes] In what way? Just a super lightweight database?
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[cleverdevil] Yeah
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[cleverdevil] Something that requires no server.
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[cleverdevil] Embedded.
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snarfed [cleverdevil]: sounds like jq!
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[cleverdevil] what is jq?
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Loqi jQuery is a popular JavaScript framework https://indieweb.org/jq
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snarfed noooo
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[cleverdevil] Haha
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[cleverdevil] gives Loqi the evil eye
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Loqi Thanks, [cleverdevil]!
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snarfed https://stedolan.github.io/jq/
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snarfed jq is https://stedolan.github.io/jq/
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[cleverdevil] Oooh, shiny.
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[cleverdevil] I'll read up on this on my flight this evening 🙂
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snarfed and jsonpath
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[cleverdevil] Yeah, ideally, I'd want something that has language bindings, and a nice simple query language, and works on a directory full of JSON files.
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[cleverdevil] Indexing would be great, too.
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[cleverdevil] So, its not just having to scan every time.
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snarfed [cleverdevil]: i'd be curious to see actual perf benchmarks, on your dataset, to quantify the difference
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snarfed premature optimization and all
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[jgmac1106] Do folks think my Micropub htaccess and header authorization will work itself out if I switch shared hosting providers? Could just dump it all into EC2 or an S3 bucket on AWS. Trying to copy a link to a tweet into the WordPress editor on FF for Android is painstakingly difficult.
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[grantcodes] So many possibilities with these micropub queries! Now I can use it to sync my browser bookmarks 2 ways, create a journaling app that can display my private journal posts, create a micropub admin ui etc...
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[cleverdevil] Good point 😉
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[eddie] That is awesome grantcodes! I totally have adding that to my list of things I want to do on my site
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[grantcodes] The problem is going to be defining an actual standard 😬
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[eddie] Yeah definitely
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[cleverdevil] Indeed
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[eddie] But from what I’ve been seeing is we have to put it on our sites to create the standard
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[eddie] then once we get something working, someone (*cough* aaronpk? *cough) can pretty it up?
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[eddie] Hmm, question I’ve been thinking about. The common accepted idea is simple apps are better. Currently Indigenous supports IndieWeb technologies, but nothing else. I have ideas of ways I want to add in support for some micro.blog stuff.
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[eddie] The thing I’m trying to think through is it better to add micro.blog specific support into Indigenous (thus making it potentially a little more complicated, supporting things like the native micro.blog api) or keep Indigenous for iOS IndieWeb tech only and make a seperate micro.blog app 🤔
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[eddie] One makes Indigenous more complicated but the other creates two projects to “maintain”
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[grantcodes] The mongo query syntax is obviously great for querying json stores so it makes a lot of sense, but I could see it being a total pain to setup if your storage doesn't natively support it
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[eddie] Yeah, Mongo and I don’t like each other much
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[eddie] lol
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[eddie] My plan is mf2 json files that stay as my storage and then a database cache
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[eddie] ohhhh that does make some of the querying more challenging
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swentel [eddie], I'd vote two separate apps imo
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swentel especially if the api's differ much
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[grantcodes] Where is the micro.blog api documented? I should take a look
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[eddie] http://help.micro.blog/2017/api-json/
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swentel otoh
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swentel with a nice interface
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swentel and then classes implementing the stuff depending whether it's indieweb or microblog
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swentel why not
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[eddie] swentel, Yeah, I’ve been thinking more and more that’s probably the right approach. it’s tough though. I keep going back and forht in my mine
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[eddie] Yeah so what I currently have in iOS is I have a set of controllers that deal with the IndieWeb communication and it ends up creating a native Indigenous “Channel” or “Post”
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[eddie] Which are mainly based on the IndieWeb standards, but essentially the plan would be that if it was joint, the micro.blog controller would just query the api and output the same format
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swentel makes sense
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swentel I guess the difference isn't that big
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swentel looking at the api docs from micro.blog
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[eddie] Yeah it’s not huge.
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[eddie] I think the biggest thing I start running into is when I start thinking of features that benefit micro.blog but not IndieWeb tech. Example: Right now Microsub has channels, micro.blog does not. So then I start thinking how I can make “Channels” for micro.blog? So then I would end up having this micro.blog configuration and management section to create channels that is totally different than microsub
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swentel and if something else comes along, in theory, writing two classes implementing an interface and it's done .. :)
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swentel oh
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[grantcodes] Ah ok, no real query stuff in micro.blog yet
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[eddie] Yeah, just looking at the timeline and mentions really
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[eddie] They did add a “photo timeline” which is kind of a query
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[eddie] Oh, dinner time. 👋
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swentel sleeping time :)
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[cleverdevil] So, I believe that MySQL and PostgreSQL use either very similar or identical query languages (maybe defined as part of a SQL standard?) for querying JSON documents.
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[cleverdevil] That might be a reasonable thing to consider.
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aaronpk I need to upgrade my MySQL so I can start using that
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[cleverdevil] It’s pretty great.
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[cleverdevil] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SQL:2016
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aaronpk Would definitely come in handy for adding search to Aperture
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[cleverdevil] So it’s an ISO standard.
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[grantcodes] I followed some links and got to the "modern sql" site which is one of the least modern sites I have seen in a while 😛
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[grantcodes] Maybe a bit harsh. It is responsive at least
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[cleverdevil] Hehe. Yeah and the ISO standard hides behind a terms and conditions link.
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[cleverdevil] Sigh.
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[grantcodes] And a pdf in a zip
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[cleverdevil] I’m planning on working on Puny at IWS this year.
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[cleverdevil] If I can find others to join me 😀
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[cleverdevil] I really like the idea of headless CMS!
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[cleverdevil] With a defined and eventually standard API for frontends to build upon.
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KartikPrabhu sounds like micropub
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[cleverdevil] Micropub plus plus
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KartikPrabhu what is headless CMS?
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Loqi headless CMS is a Content Management System that only handles the backend parts of a traditional CMS (storage, editing interface, APIs, ...), with the visitor-facing side handled by a different system https://indieweb.org/headless_CMS
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[cleverdevil] Mediumpub?
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[grantcodes] It would certainly make it easier / more appealing for other (developers at least) to join the indieweb if there was a "micropub as a service" of sorts
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[cleverdevil] Indeed.
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KartikPrabhu what's "micropub as service" ?
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KartikPrabhu a micropub client is a service
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[grantcodes] Yeah dumb term. But it would be a hosted micropub endpoint that supports querying as well
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KartikPrabhu so it will host the content for you?
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KartikPrabhu do we really need another silo :P
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[grantcodes] Yeah but just as json
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[grantcodes] Ha well the ideal would be self hosted
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sknebel so like one of the projects for SSGs, but storing the mf2 json instead of a converted format?
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[grantcodes] sknebel kind of I guess
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[grantcodes] I don't know what the best example would be but I'm pretty sure [cleverdevil] and I have the same idea of how it would work
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[cleverdevil] Yup.
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[cleverdevil] I think Puny could evolve to become this.
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[cleverdevil] It currently uses MySQL with JSON columns for storage. With simple indexing.
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[grantcodes] Maybe https://getcockpit.com/ is kind of an example, except it wouldn't need a ui since you can use micropub clients
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[cleverdevil] Interesting. I hadn’t seen cockpit before.
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[cleverdevil] Does it support Micropub?
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[grantcodes] No chance
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gRegorLove__ what is puny?
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Loqi Puny is an experimental Micropub server, including Media Endpoint, written in Python by Jonathan LaCour https://indieweb.org/Puny
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[grantcodes] That and strapi.io seem the most interesting open source ones to me
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[cleverdevil] Okay. Five hour flight time for me. I’ll check back in maybe after I’m in the air 😀
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grant.codes edited /headless_CMS (+429) "Add more example headless content management systems" (view diff)
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tristanhavelick.com edited /IRC_People (+61) "Added Natris1979" (view diff)
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