#dev 2018-06-01

2018-06-01 UTC
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snarfed
among the more exotic bridgy bug reports i've gotten in a while: https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/829
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Loqi
[chrisjonesio] #829 No webmention support error
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snarfed
...because his site returns a variable amount of binary data to HTTP requests from app engine (with Content-Type: text/html), but normal HTML from elsewhere
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aaronpk
sounds like gzip?
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aaronpk
oh, not gzip
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aaronpk
brotli
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jgmac1106
what is the difference between (e-content content) and (just e-content)? messed up my course template and made each section itsown h-entry on the page
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "difference between (e-content content) and (just e-content)" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "difference between (e-content content) and (just e-content) is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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aaronpk
nothing, "content" is not an mf2 property
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GWG
I use content for styling
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GWG
Because you shouldn't style e-content
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jgmac1106
[gwg] just hearing that helps. I was afraid to ask if I would need to do .e-content .content in a style sheet if I wanted to style
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GWG
Never style a microformat
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jgmac1106
I knew that always used an extra div because I feared the cascade
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GWG
It's a bad practice
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jgmac1106
Recognizing mf2 as not css is a hard mental block
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eddiehinkle.com
edited /recommendation (+413) "/* Brainstorming */ thoughts on using readers for recommendations"
(view diff)
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[eddie]
Just interacted with a recommendation on Facebook and thought how amazing this would be for the IndieWeb, and I started thinking about how readers could make that a really awesome experience
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[eddie]
I think the most challenging thing is how you define the “recommendation request”. On Facebook it has you select a predefined “placename” which in the backend it contains the geo-coordinates. But I think for cross-site requests you would have to provide a lat/lng and radius length? Of course the Micropub client that generates a recommendation request could generate that automatically based on its own databases
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Ruxton
soo I know this is a conversation that was going on, but bridgy backfeed is pretty much useless for FB and Insta since the FB api changes :(
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Ruxton
Based on what I've seen and read, there wont be a solution anytime soon either
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GWG
Hello, Ruxton
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tantek_
[eddie] can you capture screenshots of the recommendation interactions you had on Facebook, on the /recommendation page?
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Ruxton
waves
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[eddie]
tantek_ I can. I took screenshots but I didn’t know if we wanted two Facebook screenshots on there since grantcodes already added some to it
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[eddie]
But if you think they would be beneficial (it was the iOS app), I can add mine
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tantek_
definitely mobile (app or web) vs desktop is worth capturing
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tantek_
also grantcodes was from about a year ago
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[eddie]
👍 awesome, I’ll add mine too then
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tantek_
FB has often changed their UI in the course of a year
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tantek_
others too - e.g. check out the changes in Medium's nagware dialog: https://indieweb.org/Medium#Nagware
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jmac.org
created /Plerd (+2101) "Created page with "Plerd is a free and open-source static site generator developed by {{jmac}}, optimized for use with single-user blogs. Initially created in 2014, Plerd runs Jason's weekly blo...""
(view diff)
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tantek_
eddie++
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Loqi
eddie has 32 karma in this channel (57 overall)
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jmac.org
created /Web::Microformats2 (+610) "Created page with "Web::Microformats2 is a [[microformats2]] parsing library for the Perl 5 programming language, developed by {{jmac}}. It is free and open-source software, and is available thr...""
(view diff)
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jgmac1106
[tantek] did you know you can now be rate limited to posting to Medium?
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jgmac1106
I got a negative score and shut out rest of day yesterday
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aaronpk
plz screenshot that next time it happens
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jgmac1106
will do I forgot I left the plug-in on and was sending all my notes from WPO to Medium and got a warnign showing me with a negative score on allowed posts per day
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aaronpk
that's an interesting mechanism, showing you a score
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jmac.org
created /Web::Mention (+856) "Created page with "Web::Mention is a [[Webmention]] library for the Perl 5 programming language, developed by {{jmac}}. It is free and open-source software, and is available through [https://www...""
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jgmac1106
guess been a feature long time but since nobody writes there anymore nobody knew
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aaronpk
nobody writes there anymore?
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jgmac1106
maybe they do. I can’t tell. keep hitting my reading limit and getting the https://indieweb.org/Medium#Nagware
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[grantcodes]
[eddie] yeah I remember thinking that is a really cool feature but seems like a very difficult thing to do in a decentralized way without a common ui
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jgmac1106
Hey I published my Promotion and Tenure file there <black> pot<—kettle</black> because iI was pissed it was still a binder and I douldn’t use my website
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[eddie]
grantcodes: I might not have thought it through as far as you but I don’t feel like the lack of common UI is that big of a deal.
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[eddie]
I figure, person A uses their Micropub app to create a recommendation request. It could use any interface, but essentially it would need to at a minimum output a p-name and lat/lng and some way to define a radius from the lat/lng.
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[eddie]
The Micropub app of the user’s choice would decide how to decide the radius and the lat/lng
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[eddie]
And I actually wonder if a geo uri could be used where the uncertainty defines the radius? I’m not super familiar with geo uri so I would need to investigate more
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[eddie]
So person A’s Micropub app posts a post to their site that has a future defined mf2 property that contains either a url or an embedded h-entry that would contain the p-name and geo uri location.
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[eddie]
Person B is using a reader of their choice that detects the post as a recommendation request and adds a “add recommendation” button. Different readers could handle this differently. Indigenous could have a built in Recommendation UI whereas Monocle could forward the user to Quill with the reply url set to the post url, allowing Quill to detect that the user is trying to reply to a recommendation request (when Quill fetched the content of the
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[eddie]
So it feels like the original geographic determination is the biggest hurdle
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[eddie]
“The 'u' ("uncertainty") parameter indicates the amount of uncertainty in the location as a value in meters”
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[eddie]
while the geo uri’s uncertainty isn’t 100% the same intention as a search radius, I do feel like their overlap into an acceptable purpose. The Foursquare Venue search api needs a lat/lng and a radius that is measured in meters (the same number represented by the geo uri’s uncertainty)
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[kevinmarks]
Can you use an h-card as the recommendation target? Naturally, people will ask "can you recommend a restaurant for a celebratory meal in San Francisco?" or "a sushi restaurant in Middlesbrough" rather than a geopoint and radius.
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[kevinmarks]
A radius is an approximation to what is really being asked, which is somewhere easy to get to - an isochrone.
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KartikPrabhu
[kevinmarks]: latitude and longitude ?
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jgmac1106
!tell [swentel] What would be the easiest way to check if my insall of drupal comes pre loaded with composer? I am seeing a composer folder in the directory
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Zegnat
jgmac1106, if you have shell access, write `composer --version` and see if that works? Else look if there is a composer.phar file somewhere, then you can execute that one instead (e.g. `php path/to/composer.phar --version`).
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Zegnat
composer is a CLI tool that will go out and get you dependencies that you need. Unless your hosting somehow triggers it automatically for All The Things you will need to run it manually to grab the IndieWeb module’s dependencies.
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Zegnat
You can also do this locally on your own machine, and then just FTP all the files to your hosting at once.
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Zegnat
Generally composer will create a folder called “vendor” where it puts all the dependencies it has pulled in.
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jgmac1106
okay from installatron I have a vendor folder, composer.json, composer.lock, butno composer.phar so I think I need to add it. Just seeing the vendor folder made me wonder if it came preisntalled with 8.5.3
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jgmac1106
there is a composer folder in my vendor folder
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jgmac1106
Based on the change log in my composer folder it is this: https://github.com/composer/installers
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jgmac1106
that seems to be my universal installer not the drupal composer. thx for thinking it through with me
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jgmac1106
except when I read this https://github.com/drupal-composer/drupal-project it says composer uses composers.json so I do have it
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jgmac1106
firing up local copy and see what happens
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jgmac1106
[zegnat] might be able to just fork this and add the mf2 to template.html
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jgmac1106
Only APA but forget MLA, those humanities folks should get a real job
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[kevinmarks]
Latitude and longitude are not very usable. You can turn them into a map, but then you do need a zoom factor/radius too. When asking for recommendations, you usually have a travel time metric in mind rather than a crow flies distance.
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[kevinmarks]
So "where should we eat after HWC SF at Mozilla?" is not a radius query (as half the circle is in the bay) but a complicated question about time, distance and busyness.
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jgmac1106
[kevinmarks] if an hreview had a location could this be used as a filter request where someone selects <10 miles of their location?
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[kevinmarks]
One of the key variables is "is there a baseball game on at at&t Park?" which means that a whole swath of choices are less attractive as loud baseball fans will crowd you out and make it hard to hear each other.
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jgmac1106
I remember erin doing something cool with this exact situation on her Known blog a few years back
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[kevinmarks]
10 miles is not useful - travel time (and mode of transport) matters.
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jgmac1106
my situation is I live in a town with three restaruants that all suck, no engine will help me, I picked a random number
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jgmac1106
it was either Ben or Erin Jo but now that I think about it I am prettysure it just used iftt to warn of a game and not go eat lunch there, couldn’t find it on stream.withknown.com I think it was on Erin Jo’s blog but this is a few years back
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jgmac1106
the correct answer is, “Get a cheap tix and an expensive hot dog. It’s baseball weather"
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[kevinmarks]
Yes, it was one of Ben's demos for his voice assistant
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jgmac1106
One of the situations where “Hey Google” will always work better? Maybe think about a way to POSSE h-review to google maps?
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[kevinmarks]
Right, I live in a village/suburb with 2 barely adequate takeaway shops and a lot of good food places within a 30 minute drive. If I go south this means country pubs, North it means city eateries. I'm happier driving much further south because countryside is pretty and less congested, so going into town has a higher barrier
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jgmac1106
probably can’t happen for 1,000s of reason…and in your example that has nothing to do with anythign hut personal preference
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[kevinmarks]
Foursquare tends to recommend the town options, not the country ones.
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jgmac1106
foursquare doesn’t use location history?
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jgmac1106
this is where scary Google is cool google. It knows my travel routes, food preferences, just need the location tracker to learn to lie to my wife when I am at the pub. Then it will be awesome
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[kevinmarks]
Both have sparse datasets here - I am trying hard to add the good places to both, but many foursquare venues don't hit the # of reviews threshold for recommendations.
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[kevinmarks]
More students in town using swarm/foursquare mean random fast food places show up and great country pubs don't
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petermolnar
anyone knows how to make nginx do try_files or redirect 302 properly, including /?
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sknebel
what do you mean ?
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petermolnar
my petermolnar.eu is currenctly 302 redirecting everything to petermolnar.net by return 302 []. I need to be able to serve some static files and redirect everything else, but I think I'm approaching with the wrong idea; let me try one more thing before asking more questions :)
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petermolnar
solved; instead of return, it had to be a mere rewrite with redirect flag and the try_files had to be trimmed; sorry for the noise
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sknebel
rubber-ducking isn't noise :)
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@jgmac1106
Here is a post where I share mock ups of what a headless LMS could look like using microformats, the micropub api, and microsub. We can have students learn on their domain while we teach and deliver feedback from our readers. This future is closer than… https://jgregorymcverry.com/3055-2/
(twitter.com/_/status/1002511576556097538)
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@jgmac1106
↩️ These are amazing goals. Did you know with webmentions and bridgy you can do all of this from WordPress and stay connected on social media. Running weekly blogging 101 bootcamps twice a week if you want any help. #edtechie18
(twitter.com/_/status/1002540831323181056)
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schmarty
gRegorLove:
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schmarty
oops! gRegorLove : I keep hoping to see more about this cryptic note that you are working on something secret and micropub and read/write: https://jgregorymcverry.com/my-notes-from-our-virtual-homebrew-website-club/
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[eddie]
!tell kevinmarks I guess there are two types of recommendations. One type would be “where should we eat after HWC SF?” And the other is “where should I visit while I’m touring Washington D.C.?”
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[eddie]
!tell kevinmarks: Radius definitely works for the latter, but as you said, the former is trickier
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[jgarber]
[eddie] I could probably help with DC recommendations… 😄
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[jgmac1106]
[eddie] using that logic aren't there unlimited types or you Makin reference to one being location and the other location and time?
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[eddie]
Haha I live just outside DC 😉 so I just used it as an example
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[jgarber]
[eddie] Hahaha, never mind me! 😂
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Loqi
awesome
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[eddie]
jgmac1106: yes, one is more about just location while you are visiting an area, and the other is more about the axis of time and location
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swentel
is likes broken on bridgy (again) ?
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snarfed
swentel: facebook?
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swentel
twitter
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swentel
actually
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swentel
might be webmention.io
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swentel
bit confused
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swentel
because I know it has worked before
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swentel
but webmention.io is reporting the source is broken, which is bridgy.appspot
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swentel
but it looks fine
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snarfed
ah, ok. sorry! will look
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snarfed
mind filing an issue?
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aaronpk
webmention.io says there's an error because https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/swentel/1002545068836716545/17269484 returns http 400
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swentel
mm yeah
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swentel
Source /twitter/swentel is disabled for backfeed
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swentel
because that looks fine afaics
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snarfed
aha. yeah occasionally twitter arbitrarily turns off an acces token, or something similar, and we don't know why
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[jgmac1106]
[eddie] do you need proximity as well or assuming that is location?
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aaronpk
swentel: probably that one failed on webmention.io for the same reason, but now the source URL is fine
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aaronpk
you can send the webmention again to try it out
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[eddie]
jgmac1106: the current idea is lat/lng for location, radius (in meters) for proximity
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swentel
hmmm weird
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GWG
Morning
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[kevinmarks]
With DC its still "where are you staying? Which line are you on?" and so on.
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Loqi
[kevinmarks]: [eddie] left you a message 1 hour, 30 minutes ago: I guess there are two types of recommendations. One type would be “where should we eat after HWC SF?” And the other is “where should I visit while I’m touring Washington D.C.?”
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Loqi
[kevinmarks]: [eddie] left you a message 1 hour, 29 minutes ago: Radius definitely works for the latter, but as you said, the former is trickier
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aaronpk
anyone want to try out the new email login flow on indielogin.com?
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sknebel
would be interesting to be automatically be able to query reviews or checkins from friends sites
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sknebel
not recommendations, but a step in a similar direction
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@SoundEvo
MGB GT got a #Pioneer DEH-X7800DAB CD Tuner with Bluetooth, USB, DAB/DAB+ and Spotify. Connects to Apple iOS & Android + @JLAudio C2-525X rear coaxial #speakers & CP106-W0V3 Microsub 6" #Subwoofer in ported #bass box
(twitter.com/_/status/1002577434179489794)
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aaronpk
microsub 😂
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[jgmac1106]
[eddie] and [kevinmarks] you building or thinking about chat bit or voice assistant to do this that plays with h-review?
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[eddie]
I’m talking about a distributed version of Facebook’s recommendation requests, where you can ask friends for recommendations of places to check out
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[eddie]
What is recommendation?
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Loqi
A recommendation is a type of post that provides a suggestion to another person https://indieweb.org/recommendation
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[eddie]
kevinmarks: do you have any places where that type of granularity has been used in practice?
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[eddie]
sknebel: That would be interesting to query reviews or checkins
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[eddie]
I was also wondering in the back of my mind if there was a way when providing a recommendation to be able to link to a previous review or checkin
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sknebel
[eddie]: could either be something aggregated somewhere, or a way to send search requests to sites.
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sknebel
what is search?
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Loqi
search in the context of the IndieWeb refers to being able to search your personal site for your own content https://indieweb.org/search
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eddiehinkle.com
created /recommendation_request (+3577) "Initial brainstorming of recommendation requests"
(view diff)
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[eddie]
recommendation request << recommendation
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loqi.me
edited /recommendation_request (+38) "[eddie] added "[[recommendation]]" to "See Also""
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[eddie]
recommendation << recommendation request
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loqi.me
edited /recommendation (+46) "[eddie] added "[[recommendation request]]" to "See Also""
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eddiehinkle.com
edited /recommendation (+345) "Moved recommendation request info to it's own page and added additional information about the recommendations themselves"
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eddiehinkle.com
edited /recommendation (+738) "/* Brainstorming */ some additional thoughts about readers vs. micropub apps"
(view diff)
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[eddie]
Alright, I think that’s all my Recommendation Request thoughts and documentation for the day. 😆
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sknebel
it's kind of weird that /search suggests clientside search is better than having it on the server
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aaronpk
heh yeah I don't think my visitors would appreciate if I shipped my whole search index to them when they visit the site
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[eddie]
haha your site especially, aaronpk. That could break a browser 😆
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aaronpk
I think there are a few limited cases when client-side search would be preferred
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www.svenknebel.de
edited /search (+200) "/* How To Avoid */ add details"
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www.svenknebel.de
edited /search (+115) "/* client side search */ note that not strictly better than lvl 4"
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eddiehinkle.com
edited /newsletter (+1946) "Add basic structure for newsletter page, feel free to add more!"
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eddiehinkle.com
edited /newsletter (+96) "expand definition regarding the IndieWeb"
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sknebel
emoji << Gitlab on using native Emoji with fallback for unsupported ones (complicated!) https://about.gitlab.com/2018/05/30/journey-in-native-unicode-emoji/
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Loqi
ok, I added "Gitlab on using native Emoji with fallback for unsupported ones (complicated!) https://about.gitlab.com/2018/05/30/journey-in-native-unicode-emoji/" to the "See Also" section of /emoji https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=48186&oldid=45586
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cleverdevil.io
edited /newsletter (+413) "/* IndieWeb Examples */"
(view diff)
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@DavidWolfpaw
@ChrisAldrich Do you know of any exports of test or demo micropub/webmention content that could be used for WordPress theme and plugin development? I don't have enough action yet on my live site to cover a variety of cases.
(twitter.com/_/status/1002630753035935744)
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sknebel
search << [[OpenSearch]]
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Zegnat
sknebel, yikes that emoji article
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Zegnat
“There was still an outlier on macOS 10.12 where they don't have 🏇🏿 :horse_racing_toneX: and I added a separate test for it.”
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Zegnat
I didn’t even know horses had skin tones in emoji
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@ChrisAldrich
↩️ There's https://micropub.rocks/ and https://webmention.rocks, but I don't know of anything else along the lines of what you're looking for. I pinged the WordPress chat to see if others had ideas: https://chat.indieweb.org/wordpress/2018-06-01#t1527886682806700 Beyond this several… http://stream.boffosocko.com/2018/davidwolfpaw-theres-and-but-i-dont-know-of-anything-else
(twitter.com/_/status/1002668839480496129)
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GWG
What different standards would you hold a proxied webmention to compared to a native one?
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tantek
you mean proxied like synthesized like what Bridgy does? or proxied like what webmention.io does?
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GWG
Bridgy
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GWG
Where the source does not equal the u-url
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snarfed
one big thing is that eg aaronpk displays "via [source domain]" instead of u-url domain, as a hedge against spoofing
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GWG
I am playing in the Semantic Linkbacks plugin right now
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GWG
Avoiding my Syndication work
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GWG
So, going through the issues list
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GWG
That via might work, but how does it work with a facepile?
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snarfed
🤷‍♀️
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snarfed
sounds like a very low priority
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jgmac1106
avoiding work should always be the highest priority
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snarfed
but we have so many different ways to avoid work!
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snarfed
still gotta prioritize
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GWG
I am crossing issues off.
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jgmac1106
what would the touche emjoi be…….?
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GWG
Gardening is good
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GWG
snarfed, the privacy proposal was to collect less data for Bridgy webmentions
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snarfed
GWG: context? link?
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GWG
I don't like it
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GWG
I want to offer a compromise
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GWG
Which is configuration based, because I want all the data you give me
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jgmac1106
didn’t FB take care of this on their end…wonder how lone we have left with Twitter
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tantek.com
edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (+0) "next hwc"
(view diff)
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GWG
Our solution is that silos gonna silo?
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GWG
Seems a bad approach
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jgmac1106
no no, but there is only one left, but we should be planning ahead for readers
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GWG
I am an archivist by training. I believe in preservation
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tantek.com
edited /next-hwc (+0) "next 06-13"
(view diff)
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GWG
I had this idea to use site icon as the Avatar image if no avatar could be found.
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snarfed
"anarchivist"
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GWG
snarfed, that's someone else
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snarfed
GWG: sounds like that issue is more about anonymizing data, not handling source different than u-url
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snarfed
and i agree with you, seems to apply to all wms, not bridgy in particular
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snarfed
eg if a site links to you, but it doesn't send a wm, someone else can still send a wm, and that site's author etc will end up in your responses. if they don't want to, due to GDPR or whatever, the concern still applies.
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snarfed
(i'll add to issue)
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tantek
IANAL but not sure, in that technically as the receiver, you are caching the webmention info
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tantek
and the sender can always "request deletion" by deleting per http 410 and resending a webmention
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tantek
so the protcol handles "right to delete"
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GWG
I am finding it hard because I want to do the right thing even though I am not onboard with all of it
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jgmac1106
gwg then keep it the way you want and let people fork the repo
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jgmac1106
if they want it set up differently they can do it
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GWG
I care enough to be willing to add settings
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[kevinmarks]
🤺 Is the touché emoji, surely
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[cleverdevil]
[aaronpk] question for you re: Overland/Compass... the data that is passed in the API, is the array of locations ordered by timestamp? If so, is it in ascending or descending order?
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aaronpk
it is, and I believe it's ascending
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aaronpk
oldest first
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[cleverdevil]
Got it. Is the idea that the very last item in the list should be considered the "current" location unless the "current" is explicitly provided in the payload?
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aaronpk
no, if there is no "current" in the payload then that batch is historical
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[cleverdevil]
So, if I were to create something that just tracked current location, I would ignore anything that didn't include a "current" property?
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aaronpk
oh wait, no I have that backwards
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aaronpk
checks the source code
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[cleverdevil]
This seems to indicate that its only provided if the batch size is exceeded.
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aaronpk
yeah that's right. it's only there if the current batch is old
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[cleverdevil]
Hmm... so, if the payload will exceed the batch size, are multiple batches sent?
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aaronpk
yeah you can quite often get into a situation where several POSTs are sent in quick succession
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[cleverdevil]
So, the "current" is to disambiguate, I am guessing?
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aaronpk
I added "current" because when I land from a long plane flight it takes a while to get all the data from the app to the server, but I often need my server to know where I am right now
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[cleverdevil]
So, I could theoretically just wait until the last batch comes in (since I presume they'll be sent sequentially).
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aaronpk
yeah you can ignore "current" completely if you want
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aaronpk
it was an optimization because otherwise I'd land, it starts flushing data, I post a coffee or something and it shows that I drank it over the middle of the ocean.
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[cleverdevil]
I am going to make another serverless service I think, this time for Overland.
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[cleverdevil]
It'll be a fun exercise.
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[cleverdevil]
Storing all of the data in S3.
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[cleverdevil]
One more question... does token always show up in the payload?
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[cleverdevil]
If so, why do you bother also requiring it as a parameter in the POST to /api/input?
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aaronpk
Overland doesn't send the token in the post body
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aaronpk
it doesn't actually know anything about tokens
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[cleverdevil]
That would be why then 🙂
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aaronpk
so if you include a token in the URL, it just treats it as part of the URL but doesn't know that it's a token
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aaronpk
I made Compass accept either
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