#dev 2018-06-28

2018-06-28 UTC
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@jackyalcine ↩️ AJ's up and ported over the standards of IndieWeb to a friendly page (soon to be available on the main site). ANDD he made some improvements to lazymention, a service for static sites to send out WebMentions (trust me - this is a blessing of a service) #iws2018 #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/1012123428801871872)
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GWG gRegorLove: When I retrieve your site, what response code do I get?
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gRegorLove Hm? I would expect 200 OK?
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GWG Wait, it is the vouch it didn't get a 200 on
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gRegorLove Huh, weird
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gRegorLove I can try to re-send via my CMS
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GWG Found it. If '200' != instead of 200
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@jackyalcine ↩️ @t @schmarty @reading @glitch We got a demo of sending WebMentions over the DAT protocol. So it's ... DATMENTION lol #iws2018 #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/1012127498870689797)
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (-8) "/* Working On */ incorporate some improve replies details thoughts" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (-28) "/* Working On */ incorporate one-off tag-of post thoughts" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (-118) "/* Working On */ incorporate thoughts on On This Day" (view diff)
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@jackyalcine ↩️ And now David // https://david.shanske.com/ is speaking on Vouch, the tooling mentioned from the other day to help with moderation of your WebMentions! He got whitelists working for Wordpress + Vouch. #iws2018 #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/1012129968325890048)
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@jackyalcine ↩️ @t @schmarty @reading @glitch Nate Angell is showing how he's received his first WebMention from Chris Aldrich! #iws2018 #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/1012130281686487040)
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iambismark.net edited /IRC_People (+95) "add iambismark" (view diff)
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@jackyalcine ↩️ @t @schmarty @reading @glitch @aaronpk Aaron also added CORS support for https://webmention.rocks #iws2018 #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/1012130904007946240)
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@jackyalcine ↩️ We also got two new IndieAuth servers! https://indieauth.net and Dobrado as well as Known!!! #iws2018 #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/1012131226541535232)
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@jackyalcine ↩️ @t @schmarty @reading @glitch @aaronpk Tom Brown set up Goodreads <-> IndieAuth login support! #iws2018 #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/1012132143810666497)
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Zegnat schmarty: "Error getting auth url" - 🕸💍.ws ... you are fixing that before kareoke, surely? :P
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[eddie] Hmm strange. Worked fine for me
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Zegnat Not sure why it could be failing.
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Zegnat Does it require Link headers instead of HTML authorization endpoint discovery?
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Zegnat Don’t think I send Link headers right now
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[eddie] I used HTML headers. Not link headers
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Zegnat then why isn’t it finding mine :S
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[eddie] Are you still HTTP2 or whatever strange thing you did to your site? Lol 🙂
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Zegnat No, only licit.li is like that
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Zegnat My main identity is a completely default nginx setup
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[eddie] Ohh hm
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[eddie] I’m not sure then 😔
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Zegnat Do you know how to figure out the glitch name of a thing to look at the source?
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Zegnat Else I’ll just wait for tomorrow
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Zegnat For my demo, I now have my own “internet archive” running. Example: https://wiki.zegnat.net/cache/index.php?md5=7d70c2aa8113e554189c6ddd80591192
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Your final updates for IndieWeb Summit!
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Zegnat Alright. Now it is time for the european to find a bed. I was sure it was around here somewhere.
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[eddie] 👏👏
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[eddie] Zegnat++
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Loqi zegnat has 74 karma in this channel (250 overall)
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eddiehinkle.com edited /Indigenous (+43) "/* How to download */ add App Store link" (view diff)
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xolotl.org created /xolotl (+29) "adding redirect" (view diff)
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@kickscondor Q for #indieweb - asked on IRC earlier, but still hunting - you know how you send a webmention to http://news.indieweb.org to post there? Are there any other sites that do this for other topics like 'arduino' or 'boardgames'? (twitter.com/_/status/1012192755051663360)
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loqi.me created /indiewebring (+338) "prompted by KartikPrabhu and dfn added by [jgmac1106]" (view diff)
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GWG Zegnat, I am not sure if I am doing much with Vouch
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GWG I think we need to work on Vouch more
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Zegnat It is incremental work GWG. I don't do much with it either other than adding a flag... We have long ways to go on full fledged support
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Zegnat For sure
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GWG So, my implementation verifies that the vouch is valid, but not that it is a vouch exactly
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Zegnat As in, you check that the vouch link actually contains a link back?
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GWG Correct
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Zegnat Yeah, the next step will be the trust verification. And what to do with said level of trust.
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GWG But not whether I trust the vouch domain, other than it being on my domain whitelist
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Zegnat Gotcha. Yeah.
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[jgmac1106] I still want to play with this idea of a "trusted circle" property in an hcard, be super cool if I could publish to those vouched into my circle
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[jgmac1106] Know that is way complicated and not yet possible but be neat even if it has nothing to do with vouch
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GWG I will try to get something bssic up
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Zegnat You can definitely built trust based on how people are linking to the other site
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Zegnat E.g. if they used foaf to say that they are linking to a friend vs coworking, you may want to trust friend more.
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Zegnat Or they could have used foaf to say that the person they are linking to is someone they have met in real life, and you could make your bar only to trust people that way (“gRegorLove not only links to this schmarty person, but also says he has met him in real life”)
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GWG That's hard to substantiate
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Zegnat Which part? The trust part of the fact people have met?
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Zegnat For the having met part: http://gmpg.org/xfn/11#met
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GWG Yes, but who does rel met?
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Zegnat hmm.... adactio maybe?
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Zegnat Seem to vaguely recall
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GWG Not enough people
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Zegnat Not enought people sending Vouch either. If we can build the trust network on xfn, maybe we need to reintroduce it
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Zegnat Just brainstorming here
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GWG I know, thinking of what is easiest to start
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[jgmac1106] This is where I like an endorsement more than a vouch. I can know someone and not want to vouch for them. Alternatively I may want to endorse @gwg for WordPress and @zegnat for mf2
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GWG Well, vouch is for webmentions
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[jgmac1106] Yes, I get the anti-spam goals but what if I want to vouch for a skill set of a person and not the person?
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[jgmac1106] Great job @gwg on page rewrite
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[jgmac1106] Plane is taking off. Bye all
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Zegnat Have a save trip!
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Zegnat s/save/safe/
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[jgmac1106] [jgmac1106] out.
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GWG That is indorsement, something else
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GWG Heading home now from the airport
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GWG Vouch may have to wait
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[jgarber] Morning/afternoon/evening! Thinking about last call for feedback on this pull request: https://github.com/indieweb/webmention-client-ruby/pull/8
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Loqi [jgarber623] #8 Cleanup project files
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Zegnat If you want aaronpk to have a look, probably give him a few days to return to normality after indieweb sumit organisation. Otherwise I think you are currently the main active Ruby guy so merge at your pleasure!
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[jgarber] Zegnat: I definitely don’t want to speak for aaronpk, but last we spoke here in dev, his recommendation was to get another set of eyes on it. I’d pinged barryf, too, and have posted here but haven’t had much luck getting feedback.
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[jgarber] I’d love to have some feedback/thumbs up/what have you, but the PR is now six months old and I’m looking to move forward with additional work on the gem. (I certainly don’t want anyone to mistake this as me shotgunning features without review.)
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[jgmac1106] [jgarber] I was going to build a RoR blog at the summit but ended up dedicating my time to helping others.... I do like the two eyes solution
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[jgmac1106] Maybe on /Ruby we add a table for each gem with a status if a PR is pending, know it is redundant but all the signals. [aaronpk] was looking for a new steward. You took ownership of that or am I mixing you up
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Zegnat I asked a friend to try the demo of my archiver, developed yesterday ... and they were able to immediately break it. Maybe it was a good thing that I didn’t live demod it
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[jgmac1106] Naaah keep the minimum in MVP
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Zegnat Well, here is the MVP, [jgmac1106]. I just finished polishing it with a random CSS framework: https://wiki.zegnat.net/cache/
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Zegnat Unless someone crashed it again, I was just told it got fed a huge WebGL enabled webpage
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schmarty So cool, zegnat! Great use of headless chrome!!
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Zegnat Except it is currently dying on said WebGL page :P
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Zegnat I need to make an admin site to monitor jobs
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Zegnat Although it will be less of a problem once I fix up some of the code, it only support the green-path now.
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schmarty Also I will dig into 🕸💍 discovery and other issues today. So happy I have good test cases to put through. I hope to update micropub-helper to accommodate more sites
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Zegnat Awesome! Just try with my page https://vanderven.se/martijn/ and let me know when you get discovery going there
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Loqi Martijn van der Ven
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schmarty Absolutely!
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[jgarber] [jgmac1106] Agreed re: two-eyes. I’m just having a hard time finding an available set of eyes. 😭
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Zegnat And the archiver is back up, so if anyone wants to test: https://wiki.zegnat.net/cache/ :D Just let me know if you think it has crashed. That gives me more data to debug on.
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loqi.me created /syndication_targets (+130) "prompted by [kim_landwehr] and dfn added by Zegnat" (view diff)
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Zegnat sknebel, did you see snarfed launched a micropub-to-feed-service service at IWS yesterday? Using CloudFlare to bridge micropub to Newsblur: https://github.com/snarfed/baffle
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Loqi [snarfed] baffle: Bridges Microsub reader clients to traditional feed reader backends.
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Zegnat Maybe something you are interested in :)
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sknebel yes, saw
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snarfed thanks zegnat! and lol "launched" is overly strong, but it exists, and the code is open source, https://github.com/snarfed/baffle
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Loqi [snarfed] baffle: Bridges Microsub reader clients to traditional feed reader backends.
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Zegnat You demoed, so that’s a launch, no matter how soft ;)
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sknebel its more launched then mine ;)
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GWG I still want to know...if I want to connect multiple Microsub endpoints in my reader, how can I
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aaronpk what does that mean?
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aaronpk what problem is that trying to solve?
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Zegnat Just look at a couple of reader applications? Reeder allows me to connect to multiple servers, it just shows them all in their own tab
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GWG aaronpk, let's say snarfed creates this great Microsub to Newsblur bridge, but I have my own Microsub server that handles some other feeda
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Zegnat “tab”
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aaronpk oh gosh
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snarfed GWG: yuuuup. aggregating multiple microsub servers. tantek asked for that too.
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GWG Can I have my Microsub server act as a client to snarfeds
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GWG snarfed, yes, but I never heard the answer of how
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snarfed easiest way to prototype is probably to have one reader support multiple servers per user
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GWG I heard he'd asked
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Zegnat I am wondering though, why would I as a user want multiple servers?
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Zegnat I wondered that too in my current reading setup ...
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snarfed example use case was, he'd put common "public" feeds in one backend that he doesn't trust too much, but private or sensitive feeds in another that he trusts more
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snarfed arguably he could/should just put *all* feeds in the more trusted microsub server, but meh
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GWG And there is my suggestion. Couldn't I just be a client and a server and republish?
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GWG Not sure if I will ever do it though
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snarfed GWG: yes, but that's probably more dev work. easier first step is make an existing reader client support multiple servers
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sknebel also, bridges. combine a twitter-speaking server with a "normal" one
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snarfed another example use case is if an existing server doesn't easily support export or migration, but you want to migrate, just add new feeds to a new server and have your client talk to both
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snarfed sknebel: hmm maybe, but eg granary feeds should hopefully work in any server, right?
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sknebel yes, twitter isn't a good example because of that
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GWG I am not building anything right now, just offered to help with someone else building
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snarfed GWG: awesome! do you use an existing feed reader? inoreader, feedly, etc?
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snarfed see if it has an api, then try adding it to baffle!
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GWG ttrss
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snarfed ah, self hosted. nm.
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GWG I want off it
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snarfed looks like it has opml export
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GWG I just need something to move to
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snarfed aperture! just add opml import
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GWG Microsub seems good enough
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GWG But I would want to own my server someday
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GWG I told the individual interested in same I would make myself available
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Zegnat You can selfhost Aperture, dgold has a guide
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GWG I like to build all the things eventually
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dgold I does have a guide!
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dgold the terribly mismonikered Websub Part 1 and 2
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dgold https://ascraeus.org/websub-part-i-watchtower/
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dgold https://ascraeus.org/websub-part-ii-aperture/
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Zegnat I dropped those into the setting-up Microsub session on day one :)
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Zegnat Not sure anyone gave it a go though
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loqi.me created /IndieSilo (+259) "prompted by [chrisaldrich] and dfn added by [chrisaldrich]" (view diff)
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skippy i want to get a working docker-compose setup for Aperture. Need more hours in the day.
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wiobyrne.com edited /IRC_People (+54) (view diff)
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wiobyrne.com edited /IRC_People (+65) (view diff)
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Zegnat I should learn more docker stuff, would have probably saved me the time I needed to demo my thing at IWS :(
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Loqi yea!
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[jgarber] I’ve spent a bit of time working with Docker in the last few months if anyone ever needs a hand.
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eli_oat [jgarber], do you think there is value in putting together a general purpose IndieWeb container?
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eli_oat I've toyed with something similar using vagrant, but wasn't certain if it wasn't heaps useful
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tantek.com edited /Federated_Social_Web_Summit (+12) "/* See Also */ SWAT0" (view diff)
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[jgarber] eli_oat What do you imagine would be in a general purpose IndieWeb container?
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eli_oat hahaha, that is sort of where I got hung up — my initial idea was trying to build a common stack to help folks get up and running. Maybe WordPress with all IndieWeb bells and whistles running
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Loqi rofl
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sebsel the problem is that docker sort of goes the other direction than the IndieWeb does. Docker starts at what technology you want to use and then builds an app that does stuff, Indieweb starts at what you want to do and then looks for technology for it :)
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[grantcodes] sebsel: I get what you mean but don't think I agree. Personally I think docker is great to easily run "apps" without needing to do the painful setup. As long as you understand that comes with downsides too
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sebsel [grantcodes] hm, but I do agree on that.
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[grantcodes] And if it's going to help more people get on the indieweb then even better!
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sebsel well, it abstracts the tech away from you, so in that sense docker makes you more tech agnostic too, I guess
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sebsel yeah, the more the better!
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KartikPrabhu well you can chain those resonings together "what do you want to do > look for technology to do it > use Docker to build app for that tech"
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Zegnat Kinda like the prepackaged RPi wordpress that was shown yesterday. Hook up your RPi, find the package, hit install and have your webserver and everything ready to go
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sknebel I honestly think for many people starting out, docker would be a confusing extra layer, and something that sets up e.g. a fresh ubuntu install with everything might be easier to use
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@jmalonepr How to Turn Brand Monitoring Into Content Assets https://contentmarketinginstitute.com/2018/06/brand-monitoring-content/#.WzEb79EPoEM.twitter via @cmicontent @seosmarty #InfluencerMarketing #WebMentions (twitter.com/_/status/1012410308638326784)
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www.boffosocko.com edited /indiewebring (+1128) "see also links; emojicon; additional details" (view diff)
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[grantcodes] Scope question: When preforming a micropub undelete what scope should I check for. It's either "create" or "delete" or both.
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snarfed good q
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[grantcodes] I'm leaning towards create at the moment.
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snarfed agreed
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[jgmac1106] What people need starting out <button>Start Here</button>. Done.
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[jgmac1106] I need to keep better field notes when doing community building activities and onboarding rather than tool building. Learned a lot yesterday about so many different platforms
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[jgmac1106] First time attendees (me) are usually beyond that atleast, but a WP server on a Rasberry Pi...said yes please, every library makerspace that just shot up. Cool Demo!
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[jgmac1106] @zegnat I know how I am going to stress test your archiver, there are so many wikis, important conferences, I need to back where the organizers have retired or sadly passed.
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Zegnat I only have one archiver running right now, so that might take a while. I could probably start a second instance and see how parallelisation does...
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Zegnat I'd say: run locally. But it isn't super straight forward
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[jgmac1106] I know I will test one page, I am going to find an archive.org solution or see if there is anyway I get them and put them on my servers
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[jgmac1106] here was my original indiebookclub: http://elementaryliterature.wikispaces.com/
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[jgmac1106] If Alan Levine couldn't figure it out I am screwed: http://cogdogblog.com/2018/02/wikispaces-poops-the-web/
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[jgmac1106] but we got a theme song for the silo death page in that video
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Zegnat Don't want to discourage you from testing my archiving tool though [jgmac1106]! I want any feedback you may have
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gRegorLove Does anyone consume u-bookmark-of? I know Monocle does; looking for a second example.
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gRegorLove Together?
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snarfed gRegorLove: indienews. https://news.indieweb.org/how-to-submit-a-post
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gRegorLove Ah, right! Thanks
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gregorlove.com edited /bookmark (+58) "/* Tools */ +IndieNews" (view diff)
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[jgmac1106] gonna try this after vacation: https://gist.github.com/ilhooq/65c1e2490fdb616413dfede8647f2691
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@rubygems jekyll-webmention_io (2.9.2): This Gem includes a suite of tools for managing webmentions in Jekyll: * Tags *… https://rubygems.org/gems/jekyll-webmention_io (twitter.com/_/status/1012484662705434624)