#dev 2018-07-12

2018-07-12 UTC
[tantek], tantek__ and snarfed joined the channel
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sixtwothree.org
edited /Webmention-developer (+319) "/* Libraries */ Add two Ruby libraries, update link to webmention-client-ruby"
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tantek__
seeing if I can hack u-tag-of support as an add-on to my commenting on Github support
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tantek__
and it looks like it is working
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tantek__
now to try to label a GH issue
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tantek__
oh dear labels with spaces
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tantek__
those don't make very good hashtags
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tantek__
oh no now I'm wondering about /edit posts for editing labels themselves on a repo
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tantek__
well I've got u-tag-of coded, and working with a *past* post (already POSSEd with Bridgy so it won't redo it)
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tantek__
so now I just have to find another issue I want to add a label to (a label without spaces)
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tantek__
or somehow figure out how to post hashtags/categories with spaces in them
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tantek__
might have to do that anyway since GitHub Labels do allow spaces, and presumably I may want to add labels to a repo some day that I don't have permissions to "fix" the labels to not have spaces
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sixtwothree.org
created /sixtwothree.org (+34) "Create redirect page"
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sixtwothree.org
created /jgarber (+34) "Create redirect page"
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sixtwothree.org
edited /media_fragment (+644) "/* Spatial for area tags */ Add a flow for receiving and verifying webmentions using spatial dimension media fragment syntax"
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tantek__
whoa really
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tantek__
what is an area tag
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Loqi
An area-tag is a special kind of tag that tags a specific area or region of a post which can be used to tag a photo post with person-tags at specific locations/areas where each person appears in the photo https://indieweb.org/area-tag
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tantek__
!tell jgarber check out https://indieweb.org/area-tag also!
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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sixtwothree.org
edited /media_fragment (+588) "/* Spatial for area tags */ Add another idea for tagging photos in a multi-photo post"
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[jgarber]
tantk__: Yep! Been reading through area-tags.
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Loqi
[jgarber]: tantek__ left you a message 4 minutes ago: check out https://indieweb.org/area-tag also!
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[jgarber]
tantek__: Yep! Been reading through area-tags.
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[jgarber]
Posted up a few thoughts based on a quick read of the media fragment spec => https://indieweb.org/media_fragment#Spatial_for_area_tags
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tantek__
jgarber, I made some progress with area tags but then got stuck a while ago
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tantek__
so I switched to "just" doing /person-tag
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tantek__
without the area bit
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tantek__
I'm not fully convinced of the media fragment spatial stuff - like not sure if anyone even bothers implementing it
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sixtwothree.org
edited /media_fragment (+168) "/* Spatial for area tags */ Update explanation of how "my" website would display a UI"
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[jgarber]
tantek__ Oh yeah, agreed. It’s a pretty esoteric syntax and… a rather clever way of implying that a media element should be cropped.
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[jgarber]
…seems optimistic that anyone would create the code necessary to do that on the fly.
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[jgarber]
Temporal linking is muuuuuuch easier by comparison.
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[jgarber]
_but_ … spatial media fragments may make a bit of sense in the context of area tagging a photo. Which is kinda maybe cool.
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tantek__
it's at least a real feature you can do in Flickr
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tantek__
that is, Flickr supports user-adjustable rectangles
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tantek__
whereas FB only allows specifying a *point* as the spatial tag
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tantek__
and they do a weird auto-square around it
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[jgarber]
So in my head, you’d send my website’s photo permalink a webmention of the form `https://sixtwothree.org/photos/1#xywh=100,100,200,200` from your tag page and I’d sort out how to display whatever you’ve tagged from your website.
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Loqi
[Jason Garber] Taken on December 18th, 2015 at 6:57 pm EST. Textures https://assets.sixtwothree.org/uploads/photos/1/image_medium.jpg
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tantek__
yeah I was going to try experimenting with such person-tag reply posts
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tantek__
to tag people in other people's photos
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[jgarber]
That’d be great!
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tantek__
indieweb to indieweb - but I only got so far with doing person-tags just in my own photo posts
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tantek__
examples on the /person-tag page
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tantek__
definitely interested in hacking on this at some point
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[jgarber]
I’d have to refactor some ancient code, but… https://sixtwothree.org/photos/255
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Loqi
[Jason Garber] Taken on April 6th, 2018 at 3:24 pm EDT. The Gang Visits The USS Yorktown https://assets.sixtwothree.org/uploads/photos/255/986F49DA-2BB9-4F08-8C76-D5CB46155471_medium.jpg
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[jgarber]
def. a few people in that photo
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tantek__
right. I'd probably start by trying to tag people in a HWC photo or IWC/IWS photo :)
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tantek__
I think aaronpk posted a bunch, and POSSEd to Flickr too
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[jgarber]
Two and a half years ago, good grief… https://sixtwothree.org/photos/25
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tantek__
which would then give us a good example to both person-area-tag and then POSSE such replies to Flickr too to propagate the person-area-tag to the Flickr copy of the photo
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Loqi
[Jason Garber] Taken on February 24th, 2016 at 6:49 pm EST. Homebrew Website Club 2/24/16 Group Photo It’s just John and I tonight at Homebrew Website Club owing to a rather nasty storm moving through town. We’re making the best of it, though! https://assets.sixtwothree.org/uploads/photos/25/image_medium.jpg
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[jgarber]
tantek__ Looks like there are Flickr API endpoints for the necessary notes actions:
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tantek__
there are yes
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tantek__
there might even be a Bridgy feature request for this, but it's pending on figuring out how to do it on the indieweb at all, and then at least an example of doing it!
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dougbeal
hurm, what bits of indieauth log lines would need to be censored to prevent logins?
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dougbeal
schmarty: getting an error when I try to login to the webring - https://gist.github.com/dougbeal/2c4a9c2b953feee91b43906a98d093b2
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schmarty
Thanks dougbeal! Will check it out in the AM.
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schmarty
State good to censor since it is basically a csrf token :)
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snarfed
dougbeal: schmarty: here's bridgy/granary's regexp for sanitizing logs for public consumption: https://github.com/snarfed/webutil/blob/master/logs.py#L32-L40
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schmarty
snarfed++
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Loqi
snarfed has 66 karma in this channel (397 overall)
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dougbeal
snarfed++ for log-fu
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Loqi
snarfed has 67 karma in this channel (398 overall)
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dougbeal
Wonders if loqi tracks the text after a ++
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GWG
That isn't what that did
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GWG
It was a parameter we didn't need anymore.
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dougbeal
GWG: ah, didn't read it carefully enough
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GWG
aaronpk: About not using the me parameter...
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dougbeal
schmarty: oh, The authorization server returned an invalid state parameter
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GWG
I'm trying to solve the unauthorized problem. Right now, my tokens, when verified, return with the WordPress user ID of authenticating user. Is there a danger in using that, as the transactions all happen internally?
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dougbeal
schmarty: kind of looks like secret has unencoded spaces, and they get returned encoded
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dougbeal
schmarty: though mabye the logging is just pre-encoding?
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dougbeal
Is there anything in the spec about state?
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dougbeal
I guess its a url, so should be enocoded
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aaronpk
GWG: you can track the user associated with a token internally however you want, that's an implementation decision not something the spec cares about
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GWG
aaronpk: That's what I thought. But doing that would eliminate 99% of the issues in mapping URL to username.
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GWG
So, I think I will do it
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aaronpk
Oh jeez then yes do it
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aaronpk
As long as you can return the "me" url for verifying tokens then you're fine
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GWG
aaronpk: I'm hoping that might put the 401 Unauthorized issue to bed.
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GWG
It still does. It's just an extra parameter in the returned token
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dougbeal
Loqi, kick me for install Mojave, please
snarfed, loicm, [kevinmarks], [pfefferle], TripFandango, tbbrown, leg, mynamejedddddddd, iasai, [mrkrndvs], [jgmac1106], barpthewire and dougbeal|mb1 joined the channel
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skippy
how do IndieWeb pioneers envision the distribution of reposts in a non-siloed world? If I retweet something, it's because I want my followers to see something I dont think they'll see. Do IndieWeb folks distribute their reposts in their RSS feeds? (I dont, which is why I ask)
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[jgarber]
[schmarty]’s RSS/Atom feed includes all kinds of activity, including (if I recall correctly) reposts, likes, etc.
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[jgarber]
What I’ve observed, though, is that the content of a feed item might be simply a heart (for a like) or in some cases an empty body. In order to see what he’s liked or shared, I click through to the page on his website.
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skippy
that seems a sub-optimal user experience.
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dougbeal
I repost something because I want to find it on my site
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dougbeal
Though thinking about it, a bookmark and archive.org save would work as well
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skippy
I don't "like" stuff on social media, for a variety of reasons. I do repost, though. Obviously everyone has different motivations for how and why they do what they do; and that's a good thing.
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sknebel
yeah, a repost IMHO implies the "broadcast to my followers", whereas a bookmark doesn't necessarily
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skippy
i'm just trying to figure out what distribution of content would look like in a non-silo world.
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[jgarber]
Not at all casting blame, aspersions, etc. but speaking only for myself, agreed: it’d be a nicer user experience to include (as a `<blockquote>` or what have you) some of the original, shared post.
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sknebel
alternatively, that's a job for the consuming application (=reader), which of course is an issue with non-indie-readers
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skippy
i would love my reader to fetch threads for me, so i dont have to click a source Tweet to see it all. but that's also arguably not a good use of developer time and energy given other things a reader needs to do.
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sknebel
true, thats especially an issue for reposts from silos
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sknebel
although something in the system has to do the work
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skippy
aye. i was just wondering how a truly distributed (indie)web would present reposts for broader consumption. deduplication becomes a more importabt issue, too... If all the people i follow repost the same thing, I'll get bombarded with it. :(
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aaronpk
skippy: my home page feed includes reposts, and I include the entire content of the post along with the author
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aaronpk
that provides good fallback behavior for consumers that don't understand the repost-of property, since it will look like a regular post
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aaronpk
and for consumers that do understand repost-of, they can use that to dedupe/group reposts
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skippy
nice.
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schmarty
I should take a look at what aaronpk does. My site displays a summary of what I repost, marked up as an h-cite, but not even indie readers are showing those previews.
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Loqi
it is probable
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[jgarber]
wut are u doing loqi
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dougbeal
schmarty: it looks like 🕸💍 is comparing a non url encoded secret vs the url encoded version
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aaronpk
more likely wordpress is returning an improperly encoded version
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schmarty
dougbeal interesting. The state it passes is a generated nonce so I should be able to generate something without URL-questionable characters.
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schmarty
dougbeal: but you might want to run it by GWG in case the WP indieauth plug-in is doing unexpected encoding
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aaronpk
technically % is allowed in the state parameter, but it's probably safer to use only a-Z0-9
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aaronpk
it does sound like the wordpress plugin is doing something wrong
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aaronpk
oh sorry it's actually trying to use the = char
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aaronpk
looks like wordpress is dropping that %3D when it returns
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dougbeal
also looks like spaces are converted to +
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dougbeal
aaronpk: wp indieauth shouldn't alter state at all?
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aaronpk
correct
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dougbeal
looks like it should be a new issue
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aaronpk
GWG: I made a test case for you for this issue https://indieauth.rocks/client/state/
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aaronpk
dougbeal: feel free to include that link in an issue if you file one
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skippy
i need to figure out how to make my micropub endpoint properly handle retweets with original comments. used micropublish.net to repost with a comment; my site got it right, but the syndication to twitter only got the retweet.
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dougbeal
aaronpk++ state test case
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Loqi
aaronpk has 160 karma in this channel (1678 overall)
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@jgmac1106
testing the latest IndieAuth update Also on: https://is.gd/4H5VzW
(twitter.com/_/status/1017420695784034305)
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aaronparecki.com
edited /Calagator (+186) "/* Requirements */"
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[kevinmarks]
ops advice question: I need to rsync .pem files between machines to make letsencrypt work with shared hosts (I am going to need to script dns challenges and then copy them to the right places). What's the safest way to do this? A special user just for that cron to rsync as?
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aaronpk
there should be a way to avoid copying those around in the first place
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snarfed
[kevinmarks]: how long does it take? only every 3 months...consider just doing it manually for a while? https://xkcd.com/1319/ and https://xkcd.com/1205/ and all
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aaronpk
that approach paid off for me for dealing with XRay's certificate on appengine... eventually appengine built in letsencrypt support with a checkbox themselves
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[kevinmarks]
I am happier keeping the certs on the apache machines rather than the load balancer, so I want to copy them; renewing by DNS challenge is fiddly enough that automating it makes sense; it's the cert copying that I'd like to work out easily.
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aaronpk
why can't you issue the certs from the individual machines then?
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[kevinmarks]
I was doing one cert for all 3, with the different domains in.
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aaronpk
that seems unnecessary
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[kevinmarks]
well, 2 are serving the same subdomains, so need the same cert either way
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[kevinmarks]
not sure how that is supposed to work
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sknebel
need certs for the same domains, not the same cert
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[eddie]
schmarty: “No even indie readers are showing those previews”, that’s not your fault, it’s the readers fault. If you are marking your post up with h-cite I believe we just need to finish rendering it properly
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[eddie]
although RSS can still be an issue
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sknebel
nothing stopping you having each one request its own certificate
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[kevinmarks]
hm. And have each one do the dns challenge independently?
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sknebel
but scp should work too. restricted user, maybe a sudo-command to move the files to the final destination
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[kevinmarks]
ah, so make a sudoer user on each and scp as that?
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sknebel
in sudo you can whitelist specific commands, so you could allow them to run just the copy script as a more privileged user
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[kevinmarks]
but I still end up having to have a pw as the remote user somewhere my cron can see it don't I?
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aaronpk
no the sudoers file can allow it to run a specific command with no password
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[kevinmarks]
so I make a user called 'copycat' and set sudoers so it can run scp? That seems a bit tricky
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aaronpk
yes that's why I was suggesting not going down this road in the first place ;-)
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skippy
what user owns the certs right now?
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sknebel
I wouldn't scp as root, but scp as a unprivileged user and then trigger a script (which also could be a often-running cronjob, or a systemd filesystem watcher I guess) which moves the cert to a privileged location
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[kevinmarks]
root owns them now
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skippy
how does one use the Twitter API to create a "retweet with comment"?
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[kevinmarks]
i think you just post a tweet ending in the tweet url
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skippy
seems correct.
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skippy
thanks [kevinmarks]
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GWG
Saw the test, will work on that tonight
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GWG
I wanted to add more unit tests to Indieauth in both Micropub and Indieauth concurrently as they need similar tests
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skippy
nice troll. i really like the final link in the conclusion. well played.
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nilsnh.no
edited /IndieAuth (+167) "Added link to IndieAuth implementation Cellar Door."
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@nilshauk
By golly, it's working. Here's me using Cellar Door to login to #IndieWeb's #IndieAuth page to add my implementation to the list of available implementations. ☺️ https://indieweb.org/IndieAuth#Implementations
(twitter.com/_/status/1017485223716630528)
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sixtwothree.org
edited /indiewebring (+26) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ Add self to IndieWebRing examples"
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@aaronpk
↩️ @nilshauk Pretty great to see a new self-hosted IndieAuth server! Congrats @nilshauk, and great project name! https://twitter.com/nilshauk/status/1017485223716630528
(twitter.com/_/status/1017499365789745152)
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aaronpk
hey that wasn't supposed to be a reply
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@aaronpk
Pretty great to see a new self-hosted IndieAuth server! Congrats @nilshauk, and great project name! https://twitter.com/nilshauk/status/1017485223716630528
(twitter.com/_/status/1017500609631567872)
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aaronpk
better
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[jgarber]
aaronpk Refactoring on the Ruby webmention gem continues apace… Do you have any thoughts or feedback on this PR? https://github.com/indieweb/webmention-client-ruby/pull/16
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Loqi
[jgarber623] #16 Refactor Endpoint Discovery
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aaronpk
oh yeah, thanks for the notes on that. I like the idea, just haven't dug into the code yet
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[jgarber]
Certainly! I mentioned in the description it’s largely a setup for a follow-on piece of work that replaces parts of the client gem with the purpose-built webmention-endpoint-ruby gem.
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[jgarber]
Split view on the PR might make for easier visualization.
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schmarty
dougbeal: i switched from base64 to hex encoding the state, so you should no longer see that particular error when logging into 🕸💍
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sknebel
the bug is captured somewhere to ensure it's fixed regardless?
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Loqi
[dougbeal] #82 WordPress IndieAuth is modifying state
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[jgarber]
Is indieauth.rocks really a thing…?
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aaronpk
eventually
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aaronpk
for now it's just that one
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skippy
typo: "Cellar Door, an open-source implementation of the IndiAuth federated login protocol by Nils Norman Haukås."
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skippy
"IndiAuth"
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skippy
how do i file a bug on a Glitch project?
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aaronpk
it has a github repo
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skippy
i'm not seeing it. i dont know how to Glitch.
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skippy
oh. thanks.
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dougbeal
schmarty++ I can log into the webring again!
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dougbeal
schmarty++
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Loqi
schmarty has 17 karma in this channel (93 overall)
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dougbeal
Loqi you don't get me.
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schmarty
dougbeal congrats!
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[jgarber]
schmarty: I was able to join earlier today, too. Fun little project! 👏
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[jgarber]
schmarty++
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Loqi
schmarty has 18 karma in this channel (94 overall)
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schmarty
jgarber: nice. thanks! it's definitely barely held together at the moment. 😂
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gregorlove.com
edited /indiewebring (+44) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ +me"
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schmarty
dies laughing
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schmarty
i have had a 🕸💍 bug for several days and just now noticed
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schmarty
folks were able to log in but their record wasn't actually being saved because i got pulled away in the middle of a refactor.
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schmarty
however, they could see the dashboard fine.
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schmarty
wonders how many people added the 🕸💍 to their site but aren't in the db...
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aaronpk
oh dear
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aaronpk
start tracking http referers?
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schmarty
i could do that! fix things up a bit.
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schmarty
next time they visit the dashboard they'll get created in the db though
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[jgarber]
I was able to get an emoji assigned to sixtwothree.org and see the dashboard.
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[jgarber]
Although logging in a second time and I have the previous emoji plus a new one…
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[jgarber]
If I get to claim an emoji combo for myself… 🔥 would be _pretty_ great.
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schmarty
jgarber: yep, i now have it creating two-emoji chars for people (because folks were signing up before i had URL normalization, so lots of ending slash inconsistencies.
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schmarty
let me know if you want your previous emoji and i'll just stick it in the db
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[jgarber]
Could I request 🔥 ? 😬
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[jgarber]
But any one- or two-emoji will work.
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[jgarber]
Let me know what I’ve got and I’ll update my website with the right characters.
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schmarty
rather than handing out an emoji that might eventually collide, i am happy to give you the one you had originally
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schmarty
of course, i have to trust you to tell me which that was... ;}
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[jgarber]
Check the very bottom of https://sixtwothree.org. It’s the little pink heart with wings or what-have-you.
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Loqi
Jason Garber
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[jgarber]
“heartbeat” according to Slack.
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aaronpk
omg schmarty you should make choosing your own emoji a 🕸💍 Pro feature
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aaronpk
charge $1 to choose your emoji
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[jgarber]
instant purchase
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schmarty
jgarber: haha, okay, the glitch console doesn't support entering unicode, so with some sqlite substr ✨magic✨ i think i was able to get your old 💓 emoji back
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schmarty
jgarber: yep, confirmed https://🕸💍.ws/💓 points to you
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gRegorLove
How many people are in the webring?
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[jgarber]
schmarty: Thanks! Looking good on the dashboard page again
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[jgarber]
The link checker matches my previous and next links, but not the webring homepage for some reason.
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gRegorLove
"The authorization server returned an invalid state parameter" when I just logged in again
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gRegorLove
My authorization_endpoint is https://indieauth.com/auth
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schmarty
gRegorLove: 37 currently
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aaronpk
hm I was able to log in using indieauth.com fine
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schmarty
gRegorLove: try again from the homepage. i changed the state encoding because WP was mangling it, but it's stored with the old encoding in a cookie if you'd logged in previously.
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aaronpk
oops guess I have to add the html to that site I just used to test with
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schmarty
is having a great time making all these mistakes in public, haha
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gRegorLove
Maybe because I started from https://steady-sundial.glitch.me/ instead of the emoji URL
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gRegorLove
Worked form the emoji URL.
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aaronpk
oh yeah that won't work cause the state is set via a cookie to the domain
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gRegorLove
Should I replace my initial links since it generated a new one?
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schmarty
aaronpk: you can hit the "Check links now" button on the dashboard and it'll mark your site inactive.
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aaronpk
oh nice
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schmarty
gRegorLove: i can restore your old emoji
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aaronpk
eh i'll add this site too :)
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gRegorLove
That's ok, I'm neutral on AR flag :)
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gRegorLove
annnd, I just got ↗️👒
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gRegorLove
Nothing against AR, but I like this.
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schmarty
haha well i replaced it before i saw your message.
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schmarty
let me drop this record. you can refresh the dashboard and it'll give you the new one back
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KartikPrabhu
would be good to consider accesibility issues when using all these ancy emoji stuffs
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aaronpk
hahaha ended up back on my site after clicking a few links in the webring
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Loqi
awesome
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aaronpk
wow there's quite a few sites in this
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schmarty
gRegorLove: dropped. if you refresh the dashboard you'll get your new two-emoji slug back.
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schmarty
aaronpk: i still need to de-randomize the next/prev to make a real ring.
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schmarty
there are about 3 dozen sites in right now
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aaronpk
schmarty: feature request: a "check links" where I can put in someone else's URL
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aaronpk
like a snitch ring
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aaronpk
so that when I end up at a dead end I can fix the ring
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schmarty
aaronpk: hahahaha i might flag a few ring gardeners who can do that
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aaronpk
I think it'd be fine if it was public!
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aaronpk
it would still do the check of course
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schmarty
i kind of don't want just anybody using the site to bang on people's URLs
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aaronpk
I guess. maybe if you're logged in?
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schmarty
yeah maybe if you're in the ring you are good to snitch, hahaha
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KartikPrabhu
what is snitch-ring?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "snitch-ring" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "snitch-ring is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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KartikPrabhu
what is snitch?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "snitch" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "snitch is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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aaronpk
lol I just made that up
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aaronpk
the normal definition of snitch
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schmarty
i need to start a glossary of terms for 🕸💍, since i want to avoid some from the "old" webring community. like "ringmaster".
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aaronpk
totally
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gRegorLove
snitch rings get stitch rings
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schmarty
okay! glad i was able to knock out some bugs today. thanks dougbeal, ryan339, jgarber, gRegorLove, aaronpk, and more! once i get the directionality nailed down i'll start in on some documentation and a "launch" write-up.
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martymcgui.re
edited /indiewebring (-1) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ update gRegorLove"
(view diff)
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gRegorLove
Haha, that competitive tone with the summary on /indiewebring
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gRegorLove
How many users does Aperture have? Asking for a friend.
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aaronpk
hahaha
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snarfed
aaronpk++ wow growth!
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Loqi
aaronpk has 161 karma in this channel (1679 overall)
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aaronpk
yeah pretty steady too!
[jgmac1106] joined the channel
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[jgmac1106]
it wouldn't be a ring if you couldn't snitch on ringbreakers
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[jgmac1106]
but I will pay a dollar for 😈 hope its like a cryptokitty investment and when the indieweb ring blows up I can cash out
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[jgmac1106]
atleast I can start my Fibonacci Found poem again
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[jgmac1106]
Baseball Brunei Darussalam does have an oddly poetic cadence
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[jgmac1106]
being the Abode of Peace ain't bad, never heard of this country
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[jgmac1106]
world's fifth richest nation...hmmm maybe I can be an indieweb ring emoji squatter, at a dollar each I will get all the emojis
tantek__ and snarfed joined the channel