#dev 2018-07-17

2018-07-17 UTC
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@evertp @nhoizey based on your recommendation I moved from Disqus to Webmentions as well. I even mentioned your blog post, but unfortunately the webmention doesn't seem to have propagated to your blog. Any idea what I did wrong? https://evertpot.com/bye-disqus-hello-webmention/ (twitter.com/_/status/1019014045230247936)
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tantek Disqus << 2018-07-16 [https://evertpot.com/bye-disqus-hello-webmention/ Bye Disqus, hello Webmention!]
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Loqi tantek: [eddie] left you a message 9 hours, 32 minutes ago: Interesting, great notes. On This Day hasn't really changed my behavior. I was already focused on importing historical posts and such.
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Loqi ok, I added "2018-07-16 [https://evertpot.com/bye-disqus-hello-webmention/ Bye Disqus, hello Webmention!]" to the "See Also" section of /Disqus https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=50041&oldid=49871
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loqi.me created /p-in-reply-to (+24) "prompted by dougbeal and redirect added by tantek___" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /microformat_prefix (+101) "prompted by dougbeal and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /microformat_prefix (+2) "linkify ('… is <url>' pattern)" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /metaformats (+68) "tantek___ added "https://www.w3.org/standards/webarch/metaformats" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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GWG I use OGP as a fallback for MF2
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dougbeal What i OGP
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dougbeal What is OGP
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Loqi The Open Graph protocol (OGP) is an open* standard developed and controlled by Facebook for expressing the primary subject of an HTML page in custom <meta> tags for the purpose of Facebook showing link previews; in practice only a couple are even sometimes necessary for that use-case, and you can use existing open standards instead https://indieweb.org/ogp
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dougbeal Does it overlap much?
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GWG dougbeal: Usually sites that don't have MF2 have OGP
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islandinthenet.com edited /reply (-156) "/* Why fallback to pingback */" (view diff)
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dougbeal Can you do a pull request to create a new branch?
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dougbeal I guess not in github
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tantek.com edited /podcast (+8) "make podcasts about more obvious / discoverable" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /podcasts_about_the_indieweb (+170) "huffduffer indieweb tag link" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /using (+49) "prompted by tantek__ and redirect added by tantek__" (view diff)
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@NewWikis INDIEAUTH: A new page is on Wikipedia! Created by Tantek. Check it out here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IndieAuth (twitter.com/_/status/1019091210156290049)
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@nhoizey ↩️ @evertp Hello, I didn’t build the site for a while. Your mention is there: https://nicolas-hoizey.com/2017/07/so-long-disqus-hello-webmentions.html#webmention-1017881104773025792 (twitter.com/_/status/1019103434992226304)
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@SkyNebula Bye Disqus, hello Webmention! Webmentions is a W3C standard for distributed commenting. It’s very similar to “Pingbacks”. When somebody wants to respond to an article here from their own blog, a link will be created automatically. https://evertpot.com/bye-disqus-hello-webmention/ /via @lsmith (twitter.com/_/status/1019105582702309376)
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@nhoizey ↩️ @evertp Did you send any Webmention from your post? (twitter.com/_/status/1019105658690564096)
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@evertp ↩️ @nhoizey Yeah, I ran curl on your http://webmention.io endpoint with a target and sourcre, and the service said it was accepted. (twitter.com/_/status/1019105955747729408)
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@nhoizey ↩️ @evertp The mention is indeed in http://webmention.io, I will now check why it didn’t appear on my site. (twitter.com/_/status/1019127147607314432)
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@drewmarkturner ↩️ Well he was extremely butt hurt when they declined the use of his microsub in the cave rescues, so probably never now (twitter.com/_/status/1019160839969001473)
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[kevinmarks] [aaronpk] - pinboard's feed is RSS 1.0 - the RDF variant. unmung handles it: http://www.unmung.com/feed?feed=http%3A%2F%2Ffeeds.pinboard.in%2Frss%2Fu%3Aats%2F
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jgmac1106 Trying to figure out the reason I can’t send a webmention to myself. Quite strange but up fist this morning is adding an h-card to my about me page since that is where my genereic webmentions go
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sknebel do you get any error if you sent a webmention manually?
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sknebel I wouldn't be surprised if that was intentionally blocked
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jgmac1106 no I get nothing, but then one day I will wake up and have like 30 webmentions from myself
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jgmac1106 Trying to use webmentions so I can keep track of my daily to-do list: http://jgregorymcverry.com/my-to-do-list/
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jgmac1106 also do you think it is worth it to contact bitninja and see if the brid.gy IP address could be removed from their greylist or is that something snarfed would have to do as it’s his site?
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jgmac1106 So I send post like this as a reply to my site: http://jgregorymcverry.com/4445-2/
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Loqi Finished the @HiveLearningNYC #IndieWeb post Estimated: 🍅 Actual: 🍅🍅
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sknebel I would talk to your hoster first. you are their customer, their servers are not allowing something you want to work
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jgmac1106 okay, will do , thanks
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GWG Media Endpoint for Micropub for WordPress merged. On to next improvement.
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sknebel hm, right, webmentions internal to your site just get accepted
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jgmac1106 based on the mf2 wiki I get confused explaining these two different properties to people. u-url - home page u-uid - universally unique identifier, typically canonical URL . My home page is my canonical url, that how most people refer to their homepage
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sknebel GWG, do you know if WP treats internal webmentions somehow differently?
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jgmac1106 gwg++
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Loqi gwg has 42 karma in this channel (383 overall)
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GWG Internal?
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GWG You mean on the same site?
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sknebel yes
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jgmac1106 gonna get to teacup soon, an #IndieWeb Tappd
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jgmac1106 yeah ming gwg, scroll up
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sknebel jgmac1106: u-url is *any* homepage, u-uid is *the canonical* one
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GWG I got one last night
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GWG There is a setting to disable them though in the webmention settings
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GWG Now, if jgmac1106, if you didn't set the system to accept webmentions to pages or 'self-pings' aka internal webmentions, then it would reject them
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jgmac1106 okay checking now, thx
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jgmac1106 you were correct, Disable self-pings on the same URL was checked
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jgmac1106 thx
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sknebel file a bug to get a clear error on that? I don't think it'd be a problem to leak that policy
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sknebel also, didn't you say you sometimes got some? or are those only from bridgy?
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jgmac1106 [sknebel] yeah just from bridgy, hasn’t happened in awhile but every now and then I get a webmention dump
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sknebel ah, ok
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jgmac1106 also [gwg] http://jgregorymcverry.com/4539-2/#comment-12761 this is only showing as a face pile
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GWG Same URL, not same domain
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GWG Same URL is linking to something inside the same page
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GWG jgmac1106, have to head to work. Will look with you tonight if you want
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jgmac1106 I think you already did, just approved my first from myself in a awhile
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jgmac1106 enjoy your day [gwg] hopefully we hear about a venue today
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GWG Excited
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jgmac1106 not as much as I am about media endpoints
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jgmac1106 !tell [gwg] In terms of generic facepile webmentions maybe the strategy should be only one per domain. Most of my webmentions are myself, Chirs, and Ian
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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jgmac1106 [kevinmarks] when Twitter threw you into POSSE prison, how long was it before you got access again? Luckily my Bridgy app still works.
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[eddie] !tell aaronpk indielogin.com hates me. lol I checked and I am redirecting back to this url: https://indielogin.com/redirect/indieauth?code={code}&state=bcc4cda87580fdf658bfab8d code is an alphanumeric JWT with periods seperating the sections. Then my authorization endpoint receives a request with an…empty body? no code or anything.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[eddie] aaronpk: Which is strange because I am parsing the body for both urlencoded and JSON and haven’t run into this issue before
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eddiehinkle.com edited /endorsement (+444) "+ my indieweb example" (view diff)
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jgmac1106 [eddie] loving the endorsement work, gonna have to fork that into my IndieWeb webmention badging someday
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[eddie] Thanks. 🙂 Unlike Facebook, I don’t imagine I’ll be able to silo-quit LinkedIn ANYtime in the near future. BUT I’d love to own my content. Eventually I want to import all the recommendations and data from LinkedIn to my website so I have a place that I can show to potential employers and I don’t have to reference LinkedIn (and of course, I can have a link to the original content from LinkedIn for proof)
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[eddie] Today I was going to write a former co-worker a recommendation and I thought, “wait, I should be able to put this on my website” which got me brainstorming.
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[eddie] I think general endorsements really are just a form of reply. Of course it gets more complicated when you start wanting to deal with “skills”
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jgmac1106 [eddie] there is also this page: https://indieweb.org/2016/NYC2/indorsements from IWC NYC 2016
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sknebel Would it make sense to post them privately, and have the receiver opt in to displaying them or choose to show the link on their page/CV/...
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jgmac1106 I would also like to be able to connect evidence to an endorsement similar to a reply or built into the reply
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jgmac1106 though I am never in favor of “i” anything
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[eddie] sknebel: I don’t see a problem with posting it publicly on your own site. What you write on an endorsement also reflects back on who you are. The receiver can choose if they want to display your endorsement on their stuff, but I don’t think that inhibits you from posting it publically
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[eddie] LinkedIn, for example, shows the endorsements I’ve written on my profile
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[eddie] However, the receiver gets to choose if they approve those for their own profile
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[eddie] jgmac1106: Yeah, I did read that page. I think there’s a ways to go before we figure out skills. It’s tough because I think we should start by posting skills on our own site, and having people reply.
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[eddie] However, often people might want to endorse a number of skills together
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[eddie] but only write one post “about” the person
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[eddie] So that makes me think either a) we need to be able to address multiple skills in one reply post (maybe just multiple in-reply-to for each skill url), or b) you consider a “like” or some other form of “one tap reaction” as an endorsement of a skill
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@benwerd Notes from Homebrew Website Club, Night Vale chapter: The creepy old woman who lives under the stairs has finally migrated her blog We wish we didn’t need p-skeletons, but here we are The goo in the corner is just curious about CSS DO NOT WEBMENTION THE EYE #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/1019249652657344512)
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GWG jgmac1106, the solution is to dedupe POSSEd webmentions
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GWG So that the native and Bridgy version of the webmention get deduped.
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GWG And I want to look at home page mention display ideas
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GWG How do silos handle person tags? Which is what a homepage mention is basically
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GWG I need to look at the research
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[eddie] 👏
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[cleverdevil] Hey, [eddie], I merged the iOS app for Indiepaper yesterday!
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Loqi [cleverdevil]: tantek__ left you a message 1 day, 15 hours ago: since you've implemented and use an /On_This_Day feature on your own website, has it changed your posting behavior at all? E.g. https://indieweb.org/on_this_day#Impact_on_posting_behavior
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[cleverdevil] I started down the path of creating a TestFlight thing, but am running into trouble.
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[eddie] Hmm, what’s going on?
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[cleverdevil] Let me get the exact error message.
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GWG Who handles person tagging well on their site?
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GWG Well being anything but logging them?
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[cleverdevil] https://cleverdevil.io/s/tTzACQhRyl.png
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[eddie] Ohhh, do you have another team on your account? In the account dropdown?
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[eddie] In the main editor, you would want to click on the project icon on the sidebar
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[eddie] as if you were changing the name of the app
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[cleverdevil] Nope.
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[eddie] Hmm, I guess first things first. Can you log in here: https://appstoreconnect.apple.com
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[cleverdevil] Yup, I can log in there.
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[eddie] 🤔
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[cleverdevil] I have one user and team and my roles are "everything" basically.
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[eddie] When you go into the main project settings, do both Indiepaper.iOS and Indiepaper.iOS.Share have a team selected in the Team dropdown in the General tab?
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[cleverdevil] I also tried signing in and out in XCode.
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[cleverdevil] Yup, the correct team too 🙂
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[eddie] The “Status” section underneath the Team dropdown is green
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[eddie] ?
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[cleverdevil] What team downdrop?
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[cleverdevil] The one in Xcode?
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[eddie] oh yeah
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[cleverdevil] I don't see anything green, but everything looks fine.
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[eddie] How strange
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[cleverdevil] I am using XCode 9.4.1
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[eddie] haha that was my next question
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[cleverdevil] Maybe that's it?
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[eddie] That seems right
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[eddie] XCode 10 can’t submit apps
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[eddie] https://stackoverflow.com/a/46991435
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[eddie] Seems like logging out and back into your Apple ID in XCode
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[eddie] oops
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[eddie] you already did that
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[eddie] 🤦
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[cleverdevil] I'll try again.
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[cleverdevil] Can't hurt.
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[eddie] This is the worst part about iOS development and XCode
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[eddie] accounts and provisioning
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[cleverdevil] No dice, same error.
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[cleverdevil] I may just submit a ticket to Apple.
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[eddie] Yeah, probably your best bet. I’ve run into a LOT of errors
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[eddie] that’s not one of them
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[eddie] lol
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[cleverdevil] OK, ticket submitted.
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[cleverdevil] Now, we wait 1-2 business days 😛
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[eddie] 😞
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[eddie] lol
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[eddie] Apple
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ @UnixSysAdmin These are called webmentions they are the glue of the #IndieWeb https://indieweb.org/Webmention (http://jgregorymcverry.com/4630-2/) (twitter.com/_/status/1019261140042440705)
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[snarfed] GWG++ for pushing forward so much new WordPress code recently! and for his patience and good humor tolerating all my reviews and requests
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Loqi gwg has 43 karma in this channel (384 overall)
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tantek__ jgmac1106++ for https://twitter.com/jgmac1106/status/1019261140042440705
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Loqi jgmac1106 has 2 karma in this channel (31 overall)
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@jgmac1106 @UnixSysAdmin These are called webmentions they are the glue of the #IndieWeb https://indieweb.org/Webmention (http://jgregorymcverry.com/4630-2/) (twitter.com/_/status/1019261140042440705)
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dougbeal GWG++ same
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Loqi gwg has 44 karma in this channel (385 overall)
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dougbeal snarfed++ for the reviews and requests
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Loqi snarfed has 68 karma in this channel (401 overall)
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dougbeal I need to exclude the wp-conent/uploads directory from urls passed to php-fpm, seems like that would prevent a worse case site compromise
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tantek.com edited /Decentralized_Web_Summit (+0) "r--" (view diff)
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[grantcodes] !tell mblaney I think I finally may have fixed your together issue, it may have had issues with quoted rel link headers
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk good morning
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Loqi aaronpk: [eddie] left you a message 3 hours, 38 minutes ago: indielogin.com hates me. lol I checked and I am redirecting back to this url: https://indielogin.com/redirect/indieauth?code={code}&state=bcc4cda87580fdf658bfab8d code is an alphanumeric JWT with periods seperating the sections. Then my authorization endpoint receives a request with an…empty body? no code or anything.
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aaronpk [eddie] hmm that seems very strange. are you *sure* you're not getting a post body? and it's not just some weirdness in how you're handling the request?
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tantek__ hey indieweb devs, I'm going to strongly encourage you to add your project that you're using live on your site to this: https://forms-diglife.herokuapp.com/#/form/11f40902f7c7485e
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tantek__ Especially if your project is open source!
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dougbeal So an example might be Indieweb Wordpress Plugins?
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loqi.me created /decentralized_tech (+26) "prompted by dougbeal and redirect added by tantek__" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /NeoCities (+387) "+features section, note custom domain support, default https, increased storage" (view diff)
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[kevinmarks] [jgmac1106] it wasn't a POSSE prison specifically, it was suspected automation, but they wanted 2fa for a phone number I no longer had
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[kevinmarks] ok, so I have https://aperture.p3k.io/microsub/63 http://www.unmung.com/mf2?url=http%3A%2F%2Fknown.kevinmarks.com&html=&pretty=on shows "microsub": [
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[kevinmarks] "https://aperture.p3k.io/microsub/63"
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[kevinmarks] ], in the rels
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[kevinmarks] but monocle says no:
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[kevinmarks] Error
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[kevinmarks] There was a problem trying to load the channels from your Microsub endpoint.
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[kevinmarks] Your website: http://known.kevinmarks.com/
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[kevinmarks] The endpoint returned the following response.
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[kevinmarks] Microsub endpoint: https://aperture.p3k.io/microsub/63
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[kevinmarks] {
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[kevinmarks] "code": 403,
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[kevinmarks] "header": "HTTP/1.1 403 Forbidden\r\nServer: nginx/1.14.0\r\nContent-Type: application/json\r\nTransfer-Encoding: chunked\r\nConnection: keep-alive\r\nX-Powered-By: PHP/7.2.7-1+ubuntu16.04.1+deb.sury.org+1\r\nCache-Control: no-cache, private\r\nDate: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 19:40:00 GMT",
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[kevinmarks] "body": "{\"error\":\"forbidden\"}",
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[kevinmarks] "error": "",
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[kevinmarks] "error_description": "",
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[kevinmarks] "url": "https://aperture.p3k.io/microsub/63?action=channels",
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[kevinmarks] "debug": "HTTP/1.1 403 Forbidden\r\nServer: nginx/1.14.0\r\nContent-Type: application/json\r\nTransfer-Encoding: chunked\r\nConnection: keep-alive\r\nX-Powered-By: PHP/7.2.7-1+ubuntu16.04.1+deb.sury.org+1\r\nCache-Control: no-cache, private\r\nDate: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 19:40:00 GMT\r\n\r\n{\"error\":\"forbidden\"}",
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aaronpk omg
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aaronpk use a gist or something next time :)
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aaronpk so that error means that the token monocle has was rejected by the authorization endpoint
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[kevinmarks] aperture's endpoint or known's?
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aaronpk known
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aaronpk looking at https://github.com/idno/Known/blob/master/IdnoPlugins/IndiePub/Pages/IndieAuth/Token.php
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[kevinmarks] http://known.kevinmarks.com/indieauth/token is known's, but I'm not sure how it issues tokens for aperture
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aaronpk it looks like it has the token verification route in it
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aaronpk do you see anything at https://monocle.p3k.io/debug
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[kevinmarks] yes - micropub and microsub endpoints and a token issued by known
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aaronpk can you take the token and run this from the command line using your token? curl -i http://known.kevinmarks.com/indieauth/token -H "Authorization Bearer xxx"
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[kevinmarks] "access_token": "c472dbxxx",
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[kevinmarks] "scope": "create update read follow channels",
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[kevinmarks] "me": "http://known.kevinmarks.com/"
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[kevinmarks] is channels known being too postelian?
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aaronpk and it returned http 200?
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[kevinmarks] 404
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aaronpk that's the problem
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aaronpk why would it return 404
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[kevinmarks] hm
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[kevinmarks] it works for micropub (or did last time I tried)
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aaronpk oh I messed up the curl command tho
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aaronpk "Authorization: Bearer xxx" (was missing a colon)
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aaronpk [kevinmarks]: I just added some more debug info, so where you see "{\"error\":\"forbidden\"}" in monocle should show better info now
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[kevinmarks] i still get a 404 though
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aaronpk from this command? `curl -i http://known.kevinmarks.com/indieauth/token -H "Authorization: Bearer xxx"`
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aaronpk and yet you also see the token info and not an error message?
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[kevinmarks] yes, I still get a 404
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aaronpk Well that is the problem. I don't see how that's possible if you're running the code on GitHub tho
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[kevinmarks] well, I'm running whatevre ben has deployed, which may be old
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[kevinmarks] all my micropub endpoints have rotted 😞
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snarfed fun, the decentralized tech survey tantek posted uses kumu to visualize all the projects, which i also used in indiemap. https://kumu.io/DigLife/decentralized-tech#ecosystem
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snarfed https://kumu.io/snarfed/indie-map
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tantek__ oh!
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tantek__ what is Kumu
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Kumu" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Kumu is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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tantek__ snarfed, what do you think of the axes of data (set of questions) that the form https://forms-diglife.herokuapp.com/#/form/11f40902f7c7485e asks for projects?
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snarfed Kumu is a data visualization platform that helps you organize complex information into interactive relationship maps. https://kumu.io/
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /Kumu (+163) "prompted by tantek__ and dfn added by snarfed" (view diff)
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /Kumu (+1) "linkify ('x is y. <url>.' pattern)" (view diff)
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snarfed tantek__: i don't know, haven't gotten that far yet
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tantek__ any useful axes that we should attempt to add on /projects ?
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tantek__ or heck, should we try to create our own kumu of indieweb projects?
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snarfed i don't know that the viz specifically adds much beyond a list in text
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snarfed fun though
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tantek__ some of these questions might help make a good wiki-template for documenting indieweb projects
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[kevinmarks] the axes I want are the Wardley ones
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[kevinmarks] though they are hard to quantify, and need actual dependencies
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[kevinmarks] relies on is potentially useful, except the relies on aren't nodes
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[kevinmarks] so to make this work, we should register all the indieweb protocols and services
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[kevinmarks] then our own sites with "relies on" pointing to them
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[kevinmarks] then our own sites with "relies on" pointing to them
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[snarfed] (ugh more maintenance)
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gregorlove.com edited /web_hosting (+69) "/* Custom domain silos */ +NeoCities" (view diff)
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snarfed gRegorLove++ thx
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Loqi gregorlove has 49 karma in this channel (259 overall)
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gregorlove.com edited /web_hosting (+82) "/* Shared Hosting */ +me" (view diff)
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gRegorLove yw
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@rubygems webmention-endpoint (1.0.0): Discover a URL’s Webmention endpoint. https://rubygems.org/gems/webmention-endpoint (twitter.com/_/status/1019322744956243968)
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: mf2py has been released with implied name changes ;)
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: 1.1.1?
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KartikPrabhu yeah
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snarfed i don't think that change made it in
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snarfed oh wait, i have to enable it explicitly, right?
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KartikPrabhu no implied name should always work. img_with_alt is a flag
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KartikPrabhu << #microformats
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loqi.me created /Sonic (+137) "prompted by tantek__ and dfn added by tantek__" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /Sonic (+201) "tantek__ added "2018-07-17 [http://www.pressdemocrat.com/business/8539799-181/santa-rosas-sonic-expands-its Santa Rosa’s Sonic expands its internet service into more San Francisco neighborhoods]" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Sonic (+406) "longer quote, subsections, why" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /creative (+20) "prompted by tantek__ and redirect added by tantek__" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /creativity (+20) "prompted by tantek__ and redirect added by tantek__" (view diff)
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GWG snarfed, I would have said the same thing about you tolerating me
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@rubygems authorization-endpoint (0.1.0): Discover a URL’s authorization endpoint for use with Micropub and IndieAuth clients. https://rubygems.org/gems/authorization-endpoint (twitter.com/_/status/1019351684559130627)
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sixtwothree.org edited /Ruby (+142) "/* Libraries */ Add authorization-endpoint-ruby gem to libraries" (view diff)
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dougbeal.com edited /NeoCities (+41) "/* Features */" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /tweetstorming (+23) "prompted by tantek__ and redirect added by tantek__" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /live_tweeting (+321) "prompted by tantek__ and dfn added by tantek__" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /live_tweeting (+110) "tantek__ added "2018-07-17 http://jgregorymcverry.com/getting-my-hand-slapped-by-twitter-and-my-mea-culpa/" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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dougbeal.com edited /NeoCities (+1) "/* Features */" (view diff)
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dougbeal You have to be a paid supporter for neocities custom domain :(
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KartikPrabhu sounds fair
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tantek__ dougbeal, similar for a wordpress.com custom domain
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tantek__ it is a legitimate business model - it costs money to maintain
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tantek__ also similarly for micro.blog
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[cleverdevil] Just pushed a release of Indiepaper for macOS that can configure itself with IndieAuth.
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aaronpk [cleverdevil]++
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Loqi cleverdevil has 37 karma in this channel (109 overall)
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[cleverdevil] (Its sort of cheating, using the IndieAuth flow in the user's default browser, and then sending the configuration in via a URL).
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[cleverdevil] But, hey, it works 🙂
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aaronpk why is that cheating?
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aaronpk oh cause it goes through indiepaper.io still?
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[cleverdevil] https://cleverdevil.io/s/Orq5gYXXX9.png
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[cleverdevil] Yeah, it goes through the website.
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[cleverdevil] But, the nice thing is this is way easier to set up.
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[cleverdevil] And it works on iOS with the iOS app, too.
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aaronpk nice
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[cleverdevil] Now if Apple would just move a bit faster and get my TestFlight issues resolved, I could get the iOS app out to users!
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: you've got mail! https://github.com/microformats/mf2py/issues/110
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Loqi [snarfed] #110 crashes with lxml, maybe other BeautifulSoup parsers
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: hmmm I thought I tested :(