#dev 2018-07-18

2018-07-18 UTC
[matpacker], [kevinmarks] and [manton] joined the channel
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[manton] Microsub question... Does this kind of error ring a bell to anyone? http://wrke.online/2018/07/17/hey-manton-i.html
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Loqi Hey @manton I am trying to get my micro.blog working with Monocle. I can sign into Aperture fine but when I try to log into Monocle I get this error message. I think it might be caused by something I added to the CSS but I am not sure. Can you help.
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[manton] The site is using Micro.blog for authorization_endpoint, token_endpoint, and micropub.
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[manton] I think that's supposed to work, but haven't tried it myself.
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aaronpk i've been trying to talk to her here
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aaronpk but she keeps disappearing after sharing the error
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aaronpk earlier this morning she had an additional authorization_endpoint, token_endpoint, and micropub endpoint listed in her website footer
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aaronpk but now I only see one
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aaronpk that screenshot is 6 days old though
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aaronpk also a few hours ago I updated the error message there which will include more details where it says "error: forbidden" in that screenshot
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[eddie] I think the other issue is her token endpoint has changed from IndieAuth.com to micro.blog. Do you think she might need to log in to Aperture so it’s pinging the right endpoint with the right token?
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aaronpk ah yeah aperture will save the new token endpoint every time you log in, otherwise it uses the last token endpoint it knows about
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[manton] Thanks y'all. I thought I saw it discussed a little here before but wasn't following it closely.
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[eddie] aaronpk: In other strange things, following up on earlier, from everything I can tell, my server isn’t receiving any post data. I’m logging the body to the console and it’s completely empty, and my endpoint works with normal token based logins so it’s not the Node.js libraries.
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[eddie] 🤔
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aaronpk ooh I think I have an idea
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[eddie] Does IndieLogin require a me parameter?
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aaronpk can I send some test requests to your endpoint real quick?
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[eddie] Sure
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aaronpk can you look at your logs and tell me if you see a post body in the two requests i'm about to make?
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[eddie] Definitely 👍 I’ve got the log as tail -f
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aaronpk kay you should have seen two
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[eddie] First empty second has it
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aaronpk aha
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aaronpk thought so
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[eddie] 🙌
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aaronpk so the dumb thing is if you pass an array to php curl, it sends a multipart request
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aaronpk the body being empty was misleading because it wasn't empty, it was a multipart request
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[eddie] Ohhhh strange
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aaronpk which apparently that node library doesn't understand
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[eddie] Ahhh
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[eddie] Interesting
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aaronpk most higher level web frameworks will convert all the multipart params to the same way that form-encoded params are handled, so that's why this hasn't come up before
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KartikPrabhu php requests with all the array stuff is weird
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[eddie] Ahh that makes sense
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aaronpk anyway, I fixed indielogin.com so try again
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[eddie] 👍
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[eddie] “Congrats!
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[eddie] You successfully authenticated as https://eddiehinkle.com/“
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aaronpk yay
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[eddie] Wooo!!!
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Loqi giggles
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[eddie] Next question. Does telegraph show your API is anywhere in the interface? ☺
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[eddie] API ID*
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aaronpk yeah there's a little settings icon that appears if you hover over the domain
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aaronpk apparently I need to make that not hidden cause you're not the first person to miss that
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[eddie] “Hover over the domain” especially if one is using iOS 😁 sometimes Hover actions work with taps and sometimes they don’t. I’m guess this is one of those times it doesn’t, because I tried tapping everywhere and no dice
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[eddie] I’ll try when I get to my computer in a bit lol
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aaronpk haha yeah
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aaronpk oh what the heck, I just removed the hover effect.
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aaronpk so if you can get the css to reload you should see it now
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[eddie] Thanks! ... I think the css doesn’t want to reload (despite my tricks), but also.... what page should I be looking at? The Dashboard? The user menu in the top right? 🙂
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aaronpk if you can see the domain name in the header the gear is right next to it
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[eddie] Image from iOS https://files.slack.com/files-pri/T03QR2B2T-FBS7RH9J7/image_from_ios.png?pub_secret=6279fc1240&name=Image from iOS.png Ohhh .... that must be my issue. Is there a missing domain next to my avatar?
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aaronpk oh sorry, it should be next to "My Website"
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aaronpk I forgot that some of mine are the domain
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[eddie] Ohhh okay. Yeah css just isn’t refreshing then 👍 Thanks! 😁
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aaronpk https://media.aaronpk.com/Screen-Shot-2018-07-17-17-49-59-S6mbTzlmCO.jpg
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[eddie] Ahh gotcha. I’ll keep fiddling them. Thanks
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[eddie] At least I know where I’m looking now haha
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[eddie] Yay! Got it!
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Loqi 😄
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aaronpk woo
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mblaney grantcodes when I try to log in I get a JSON object with code: 401 and message: "Could not parse all required endpoints from your site"
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Loqi mblaney: [grantcodes] left you a message 7 hours, 40 minutes ago: I think I finally may have fixed your together issue, it may have had issues with quoted rel link headers
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dougbeal aaronpk: How do you tell if you have a valid access token for 804: Rejects unauthorized access tokens ?
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dougbeal If I grab the code from indielogin, it passes, but if I randomly modify, it still passes
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dougbeal I did verify that the Quill token fails the test
renem, jgmac1106, [matpacker], tantek, [chrisaldrich], benwerd and [miklb] joined the channel
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iambismark.net edited /Netlify (+72) (view diff)
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iambismark.net created /Gatsby (+20) "Redirected page to [[gatsby]]" (view diff)
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iambismark.net edited /web_hosting (+163) (view diff)
benwerd, [xavierroy], [matpacker], klez, raucao, [chrisaldrich], Kaja____, skippy_, mblaney, eli_oat, renem, jalcine, dougbeal, KartikPrabhu, iasai, deathrow1, ben_thatmustbeme, leg, jjuran, gRegorLove, TripFandango, deltab, danyao, DenSchub, eli_oat[m], grantcodes, petermolnar, ludovicchabant, dougbeal|imac, mindB, stevestreza, GWG, wagle, oodani, jonnybarnes, myfreeweb, pstuifzand, schmarty, zoglesby, plindner, sknebel, treora, Zegnat, ancarda, aaronpk, voxpelli, Kongaloosh, Ruxton, jeremycherfas, globbot, dgold, rhiaro, romangeeko, bear, Jeena, jmac, MylesBraithwaite, kline and dansup joined the channel
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tinokremer.nl edited /Known (+82) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
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@pascal_martin Thinking about enabling comments (back?) on your static blog/website? Those two posts about Disqus and webmentions, by @evertp and @nhoizey, could interest you: https://evertpot.com/bye-disqus-hello-webmention/ and https://nicolas-hoizey.com/2017/07/so-long-disqus-hello-webmentions.html (twitter.com/_/status/1019476121795158016)
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@shikiryu https://links.shikiryu.com/?IOGAhw http://Webmention.io #webmention #commentaire #ruby #dev Depuis https://evertpot.com/bye-disqus-hello-webmention/ je me demande si webmention ne serait pas une bonne solution (à tester en auto-hébergé) ! (twitter.com/_/status/1019550995913871360)
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[kim_landwehr] Sorry for disappearing I was getting frustrated because I think I removed everything I feel safe removing and I am still getting the same error in Monocle.p3k.io When I log into Together I get error finding Token [manton] [aaronpk]
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aaronpk [kim_landwehr]: can you share a new screenshot of the error in Monocle?
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[kim_landwehr] File from iOS https://files.slack.com/files-pri/T03QR2B2T-FBSRBT7S9/file.jpg?pub_secret=8984b2506e&name=File.jpg
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[kim_landwehr] Sure sorry meant to do that
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aaronpk Ah shoot it got cut off. Can you copy and paste the whole line that begins with "body"
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[kim_landwehr] "body": "{\"error\":\"forbidden\",\"error_description\":\"The token endpoint could not verify this access token\",\"token_endpoint\":{\"url\":\"https:\\/\\/micro.blog\\/indieauth\\/token\",\"code\":500,\"response\":\"<html>\\n<style>\\nbody {\\n\\tfont-family: \\\"Avenir Next\\\", \\\"Segoe UI\\\", \\\"Verdana\\\";\\n\\tfont-size: 16px;\\n\\tline-height: 25px;\\n}\\n\\np {\\n\\tpadding-top: 4px;\\n}\\n<\\/style>\\n<body>\\n\\n<p>Error wh
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[kim_landwehr] the request. Please try again or email <a href=\\\"mailto:help@micro.blog\\\">help@micro.blog<\\/a>.<\\/p>\\n\\n<\\/body>\\n<\\/html>\"}}",
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[kim_landwehr] "error": "", is that what you were looking for?
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aaronpk Yes thanks!
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aaronpk Okay now I need to talk to Manton about that because something is causing an errror in micro.blog
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aaronpk Now we know you have everything set up right
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[kim_landwehr] Thanks @aaron appreciate it
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aaronpk Note for Manton when he sees this: Aperture is making a GET request to the token endpoint to validate the token. Need to return
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aaronpk Need to return what's documented in the spec in that section
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aaronpk On a plane now! Bye!
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[manton] Thanks, I'll take a look at it.
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[manton] Oh, this is funny. It's throwing an error because the scope parameter is too long to fit in the database.
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[manton] I'll fix this real quick.
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[manton] (Although I'm now curious what the scope is being set to...)
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[manton] [kim_landwehr] Can you try again and let me know if it works?
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[kim_landwehr] Yes will do
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[kim_landwehr] No [manton] it didn't still getting the error
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[kim_landwehr] {
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[kim_landwehr] "code": 403,
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[kim_landwehr] "body": "{\"error\":\"forbidden\",\"error_description\":\"The token endpoint could not verify this access token\",\"token_endpoint\":{\"url\":\"https:\\/\\/micro.blog\\/indieauth\\/token\",\"code\":500,\"response\":\"<html>\\n<style>\\nbody {\\n\\tfont-family: \\\"Avenir Next\\\", \\\"Segoe UI\\\", \\\"Verdana\\\";\\n\\tfont-size: 16px;\\n\\tline-height: 25px;\\n}\\n\\np {\\n\\tpadding-top: 4px;\\n}\\n<\\/style>\\n<body>\\n\\n<p>Error
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[kim_landwehr] "header": "HTTP/1.1 403 Forbidden\r\nServer: nginx/1.14.0\r\nContent-Type: application/json\r\nTransfer-Encoding: chunked\r\nConnection: keep-alive\r\nX-Powered-By: PHP/7.2.7-1+ubuntu16.04.1+deb.sury.org+1\r\nCache-Control: no-cache, private\r\nDate: Wed, 18 Jul 2018 14:12:15 GMT",
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[kim_landwehr] "error": "",
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[kim_landwehr] processing the request. Please try again or email <a href=\\\"mailto:help@micro.blog\\\">help@micro.blog<\\/a>.<\\/p>\\n\\n<\\/body>\\n<\\/html>\"}}",
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[kim_landwehr] "error_description": "",
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[kim_landwehr] "url": "https://aperture.p3k.io/microsub/42?action=channels",
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[kim_landwehr] "debug": "HTTP/1.1 403 Forbidden\r\nServer: nginx/1.14.0\r\nContent-Type: application/json\r\nTransfer-Encoding: chunked\r\nConnection: keep-alive\r\nX-Powered-By: PHP/7.2.7-1+ubuntu16.04.1+deb.sury.org+1\r\nCache-Control: no-cache, private\r\nDate: Wed, 18 Jul 2018 14:12:15 GMT\r\n\r\n{\"error\":\"forbidden\",\"error_description\":\"The token endpoint could not verify this access
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[kim_landwehr] token\",\"token_endpoint\":{\"url\":\"https:\\/\\/micro.blog\\/indieauth\\/token\",\"code\":500,\"response\":\"<html>\\n<style>\\nbody {\\n\\tfont-family: \\\"Avenir Next\\\", \\\"Segoe UI\\\", \\\"Verdana\\\";\\n\\tfont-size: 16px;\\n\\tline-height: 25px;\\n}\\n\\np {\\n\\tpadding-top: 4px;\\n}\\n<\\/style>\\n<body>\\n\\n<p>Error while processing the request. Please try again or email <a
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[kim_landwehr] href=\\\"mailto:help@micro.blog\\\">help@micro.blog<\\/a>.<\\/p>\\n\\n<\\/body>\\n<\\/html>\"}}",
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[kim_landwehr] "headers": {
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[kim_landwehr] "Server": "nginx/1.14.0",
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martymcgui.re edited /NeoCities (+971) "document GHOST PARTY neocities micropub example" (view diff)
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[manton] [kim_landwehr] I may need to wait until [aaronpk] is back to understand what is happening here. I don't see any errors on the Micro.blog side. Maybe you have to sign back in for it to try again?
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schmarty jgmac1106_: if people can tolerate the long build times, hosting a site on GH Pages, with Glitch running the various Micropub / Webmention services needed to handle easy posting and interactivity, should be possible by kludging some existing projects together.
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[jgmac1106] I know Anil is very interested in people using Glitch to learn how to support IndieWeb
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[jgmac1106] ... Hurm maybe we need a strategic IWC-Chicago
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[kevinmarks] Glitch could host an indieweb blog, but they don't offer custom urls yet
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schmarty kevinmarks: fly.io can be used to point custom domains at glitch.com projects, though currently it doesn't seem to work with "apex" domains, so you have to use a subdomain.
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[kim_landwehr] OK [manton] will try that
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schmarty 🕸💍 is hosted on glitch.com, but with the apex domain issue i ended up setting up an nginx proxy on one of my own machines so i could use the bare domain.
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sknebel I wonder for how many people "free, but with 4 different services to configure and set up" is preferable to "works on cheap all-in-one hosting"
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schmarty sknebel: i'm curious about this, too.
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schmarty i *think* there's something possible in the middle by setting up a static site github repo, hosting the actual domain with netlify, and using netlify's functions to handle Micropub / Webmention / IndieAuth / etc.
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schmarty i haven't had a chance to poke around in it, yet.
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sknebel cause maybe a PHP based, less complex than WP solution is the better entry point
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[jgmac1106] No custom domain is always part free IndieWeb IMO
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sknebel sure, entirely free isn't happening. but you could do all the non-domain parts by puzzling free services
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dougbeal can heroku whatevers spin up when requests come in?
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dougbeal need a registrar/domain reseller with github signin!
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[jgmac1106] Played with JSHipster yesterday that was a fun way to api up apps
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[manton] Heroku's free plan will spin up the app when a request comes in, but it's pretty slow for the first request. Probably not great for a normal web site.
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dougbeal So it might be an alternative to continuous integration for a static site
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[kevinmarks] Appengine can too
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[kevinmarks] Appengine standard, that is.
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[kevinmarks] Though I need to do some more work on svgshare.com and unmung.com as apparently they are being used as proxies
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dougbeal I wonder about the value of an apex domain for Gen 4, vs a free subdomain (which has the advantage of a shared namespace)
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schmarty dougbeal: sorry if i muddied the vocab waters earlier. by "apex domain" i meant, e.g. "dougbeal.com", versus a subdomain like "www.dougbeal.com". since most DNS providers only allow apex domain records to point to real IP addresses, and most free hosting only allows CNAME alias records, these two things often don't line up.
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schmarty so for example you could still own your own domain with fly.io pointing at a site on glitch.com, but that domain would need to be something like "www.yourdomain.com" rather than just "yourdomain.com".
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schmarty all of that is Rather Confusing even when i feel like i understand the underlying tech pretty well!
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sknebel its surprising the apex domain thing hasn't been solved for so long
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sknebel I think now a solution is being standardized
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tantek__ what schmarty said
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tantek__ rather than "apex domain" I've been calling those second level domains (SLD), since we already have TLD (top level domain)
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[cleverdevil] So, I use Lambda for plenty of websites.
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[cleverdevil] Its another good alternative, and there are frameworks out there to prevent "cold starts"
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dougbeal I wonder about the value of an TLD domain for Gen 4, vs a free SLD (which has the advantage of a shared namespace)
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[cleverdevil] Eventually, I'd love to host my personal website on Lambda, and I was actually pretty close the other day to having Known running on Lambda 🙂
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dougbeal there
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dougbeal Would be interesting to compare latencies
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tantek__ TLD domain ~ ATM machine 😂
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tantek__ what is a subdomain
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Loqi A subdomain typically refers to a domain with one more "name(dot)" component than that which someone actually has registered which is often seen indieweb sites with a family name domain like joel(dot)franusic(dot)com, or often on silos like matt(dot)wordpress(dot)com https://indieweb.org/subdomain
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tantek__ that's the term we've used much longer
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tantek__ domain name vs. subdomain
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tantek__ "domain name" is the thing you pay for
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tantek__ which is technically a second level domain
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tantek__ TLD is things like .com .net
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dougbeal hah, so then TLD domain == domain name ;)
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tantek__ no TLD domain = top level domain domain
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[jgmac1106] [tantek] I still call them MAC machines being an East Coaster
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[jgmac1106] Money Access Center
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[manton] I usually call "example.com" a root domain vs. a sub-domain. Not sure where I picked up that terminology. (Pretty much everything about DNS confuses regular users... Just trying to come up with the most friendly way to talk about it.)
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tantek__ manton++ yes current language / documentation about domains, buying, setting up is too confusing
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Loqi manton has 12 karma in this channel (72 overall)
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tantek__ it needs to be as simple as talking about phone numbers
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tantek__ e.g. TLD is like area code
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tantek__ or maybe country calling code?
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[ryan339] Bit late to the discussion on free indieweb hosting but I just moved everything over to netlify. build times aren’t great but it does everything i want including server side redirects, apex domains, git lfs, hugo, etc… all for free. i wish they had a $10/month “please stay in business” plan…
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[ryan339] (i’m currently building out my micropub/webmention backend that i’ll run on a personal server)
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[jgmac1106] I used to let code dojo clubs and Mozilla Clubs piggyback on mine domain and give each a subdomain. Something like that wouldn't be hard to do
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@nioperas06 Bye Disqus, hello Webmention! - Evert Pot https://evertpot.com/bye-disqus-hello-webmention/ #php #symfony (twitter.com/_/status/1019634196753584136)
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tantek__ what is netlify
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Loqi Netlify is a CDN/static hosting provider with integrated build service, useful for static site generators https://indieweb.org/Netlify
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aaronpk [manton]: so aperture is trying to make a get request to the token endpoint to check if the token is valid. Here’s what it expects https://indieauth.spec.indieweb.org/#access-token-verification
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aaronpk at this point we’re gettign far enough that monocle has a token from micro.blog. Monocle makes a request to Aperture with that token, and Aperture checks the token at the token endpoint
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snarfed hey KartikPrabhu. what command line are you using to upgrade things with pip?
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sknebel hi snarfed
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snarfed if pip install -U, that's overly aggressive at upgrading other related packages. and if you install mf2py in a fresh virtualenv, it will pull the latest versions of deps
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snarfed the key test is an existing virtualenv with bs4 etc where you do something like `pip install mf2py==1.1.1`
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sknebel (I still have an idea for a replacement for the code that broke, but that's now under "small cleanup", not "critical bugfix")
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snarfed cool
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snarfed regardless, setup.py is the key place to specify version dependencies, not requirements.txt, because pip/pypi use setup.py
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: hmmm yeah possibly. I think always use pip with --upgrade
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snarfed yeah that upgrades the world
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snarfed not realistic for production environments where you carefully pin versions
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KartikPrabhu hmmm yeah I don't think I have touched setup.py ever
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KartikPrabhu sknebel: if you know how to do this setup.py stuff I would appreciate that bug fix too :)
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: https://packaging.python.org/tutorials/packaging-projects/#creating-setup-py
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snarfed fix is straightforward, see the example link i posted in github
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snarfed i can actually do it if you haven't started sknebel
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sknebel haven't yet, no
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snarfed k will do
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: do you use requirements.txt? we might consider just deleting it altogether
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KartikPrabhu I have very little idea what those things do :P I tried reading up once and got lost!
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snarfed ok. we can probably delete it then
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KartikPrabhu i guess it is if you install from github or something
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snarfed it's a different way to tell pip what to install
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snarfed orthogonal to github
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snarfed anyway, done: https://github.com/microformats/mf2py/pull/111
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Loqi [snarfed] #111 add dependency version requirements to setup.py
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KartikPrabhu as nice as pip is it does get confusing with too many ways to do the same thing
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KartikPrabhu ok will review and merge once I get some free time
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sknebel "too many ways to do the same thing" is the story of python packaging in a nutshell
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snarfed (PR is just a few lines :P)
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snarfed not blocking me though, no hurry
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[ryan339] > There should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it.
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[ryan339] 😋
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KartikPrabhu define "obvious"
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snarfed.org edited /Microsub (+206) "/* Servers */ baffle" (view diff)
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dougbeal aaronpk: fixed the second stage View Post links to load in new tab https://github.com/aaronpk/micropub.rocks/pull/77
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Loqi [dougbeal] #77 add target="_blank" to View Post link for the second stage of test
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aaronpk Oh thanks
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dougbeal after I found I filed an issue last year ;)
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aaronpk lol
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dougbeal about the time I verify the new media endpoint I'll be ready to add a return/done button ;)
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dougbeal.com edited /indiewebring (+24) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
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gRegorLove I'm still torn on -x-, heh
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gRegorLove I am pretty sure I will *at least* change the posts on indiebookclub to use -x-
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gRegorLove The micropub requests I go back and forth on.
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gRegorLove For context, and if anyone else wants to chime in: https://gregorlove.com/2018/07/micropub-properties-for-indiebookclub/
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KartikPrabhu why "torn"? is there a reason to not use it for non-standard stuff?
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gRegorLove It feels a bit unfriendly to Micorpub server implementers.
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KartikPrabhu hmm
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gRegorLove And the RFC 6648 consideration
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aaronpk What is RFC 6648?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "RFC 6648" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "RFC 6648 is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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aaronpk Loqi: read all the RFCs and add them to your database
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gRegorLove Hehe
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gRegorLove https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6648
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dougbeal.com edited /webring (+28) "/* Examples */" (view diff)
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gRegorLove I guess as long as I continue to maintain the mp request variants and give users the option to switch, it's not an issue.
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gRegorLove But that makes me wonder, if a server supports x-read-status and ibc continues to support that, what reason is there for the server to update to the later-standardized property?
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aaronpk That's kinda why I don't like the x prefixes ether
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KartikPrabhu vendor-prefixes then?
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aaronpk Look at X-Forwarded-For for example, it's stuck around as X
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aaronpk Vendor prefixes are a different story
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KartikPrabhu I mean the issue is that these are not standard properties and might actually change later
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aaronpk Standard properties might change later too
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KartikPrabhu I doubt it. I don't know of any property that has changed its name
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aaronpk The webmention rel value
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aaronpk Also there was an mf2 property around comments I think
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KartikPrabhu no not the property value but porperty name
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KartikPrabhu hmmm but non-standard? or in the spec say for h-entry
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gRegorLove I could use ibc-. I thought someone recommended against that.
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@nilshauk IndieAuth, WebMentions, Websub and Social readers are all nifty building blocks for a better web. And then there’s Vouch which will be integral as well, currently an unfinished idea for anti-spam mechanics in a decentralized #IndieWeb future. (twitter.com/_/status/1019708828206731264)
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@yochum Bye Disqus, hello Webmention! - Evert Pot http://dlvr.it/Qc1Bb9 (twitter.com/_/status/1019718478494806018)
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aaronpk KartikPrabhu: yea there was like "reply" instead of "in-reply-to" back in the day or something
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aaronpk I don't remember exactly
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aaronpk I did find this tho, which we should probably go update... http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-in-reply-to
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KartikPrabhu hmm yeah fair enough
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dougbeal aaronpk: [matpacker] is getting no Location in header from Quill in #wordpress
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aaronpk wordpress is probably returning an error
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dougbeal aaronpk: ooh, was I getting that when it was returing php notices?
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[cleverdevil] Sigh... Apple has replied to my ticket about Indiepaper TestFlight issues for the iOS version, and basically said "please send us a video proving something is wrong."
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[cleverdevil] So... I have sent them a video.
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tantek__ aaronpk, re: X-Forwarded-For and the whole mnot RFC about disliking x-, all the examples that drove that conclusion were x- that hung around "too long", or rather, with too slow a process for actually assessing x- experiments and then either rejecting or accepting
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tantek__ roughly speaking - a lot of them were around for years before action was taken
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tantek__ while they really should not last more than a year
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tantek__ just got a weird "Confirm your account recovery settings" interstitial from GitHub - has anyone else seen that?
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dougbeal tantek__: I got that today as well
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[ryan339] ditto
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[cleverdevil] Same.
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tantek__ ok something must have happened
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tantek__ just confirmed any attempt to load a github URL redirects to the interstitial
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tantek__ maybe worth capturing
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tantek__ like screenshot
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ramblinggit.com edited /webring (+78) "/* Examples */" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com created /who_is (+592) "stub with how-to, prompted by tantek__" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /who_is (+27) "try with explicit p-summary" (view diff)
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