#dev 2018-07-27

2018-07-27 UTC
#
@e14t Digging into Webmention https://ruk.ca/content/digging-webmention #drupal (twitter.com/_/status/1022632915333722112)
#
[kevinmarks] this is a fascinating post about scaling streams: https://medium.com/@mroth/how-i-kept-building-emojitracker-c31378810136
donblanco, [matpacker], renem, [chrisaldrich], eli_oat and [cleverdevil] joined the channel
#
[cleverdevil] Facebook migration script is coming along nicely
#
[cleverdevil] Sample of a migrated photo album on my Micro.blog test site before I send it to my wife's -> http://cleverdevil-testing.micro.blog/2018/07/26/holiday-photo-shoot.html
#
[cleverdevil] Biggest issue is that Micro.blog doesn't seem to respect the `published` property in the MF2 I am sending.
#
[cleverdevil] (Or I am screwing something up, which is entirely possible).
eli_oat, [xavierroy] and [snarfed] joined the channel
#
[snarfed] cleverdevil++
#
Loqi cleverdevil has 38 karma in this channel (115 overall)
#
[cleverdevil] I've got single photo posts, long form notes, and statuses working too.
#
[cleverdevil] Basically ready to go, other than the "published" issue.
eli_oat, tantek__, [pfefferle], snarfed and [matpacker] joined the channel
#
@EnlacePermanent Esta semana tenemos artículos sobre WP 4.9.8 RC2, #WCValencia, #PonteWordCamp, (excesivos) plugins de SEO, Fields API, Webmentions, qué no hacer, Gutenberg, revisiones, seguridad y accesibilidad → Actualidad para profesionales de WordPress (#125) https://enlacepermanente.es/2018/07/27/actualidad-para-profesionales-de-wordpress-edicion-125/ (twitter.com/_/status/1022728426040578048)
KartikPrabhu and cweiske joined the channel
#
loqi.me created /app_permissions (+22) "prompted by tantek__ and redirect added by tantek__" (view diff)
#
@linacomet Reading a bit about Web Mention on the W3C https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/ #webmention #w3c (twitter.com/_/status/1022759289759432704)
#
loqi.me created /slow_web (+265) "prompted by tantek__ and dfn added by tantek__" (view diff)
#
loqi.me edited /slow_web (+167) "tantek__ added "2010-06-23 Rebecca Blood: [http://www.rebeccablood.net/archive/2010/06/a_slow_web.html The Slow Web (plus: the modern experience of film-watching)]" to "See Also"" (view diff)
KevinMarks_, leg1, KevinMarks and donblanco1 joined the channel
#
@dianashk Excited to see adoption of webmentions. @squarespace please implement. Thank you. (twitter.com/_/status/1022803234480680962)
#
@DesignerDepot Webmentions: Enabling Better Communication on the Internet http://depot.ly/qoFi30l7RXF (twitter.com/_/status/1022803806692802560)
#
@AshwaniParik Webmentions: Enabling Better Communication on the Internet http://depot.ly/qoFi30l7RXF #WebDesigner #GraphicDesigner #Design (twitter.com/_/status/1022803862187593729)
#
@raj_tripathi_ Webmentions: Enabling Better Communication on the Internet http://depot.ly/qoFi30l7RXF (twitter.com/_/status/1022804090949132288)
KevinMarks and KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
@myuption Webmentions: Enabling Better Communication on the Internet http://depot.ly/qoFi30l7RXF (twitter.com/_/status/1022813431685177344)
KevinMarks, KartikPrabhu and [pfefferle] joined the channel
#
petermolnar so... I revisited this json-ld thing, because of all the hype activitypub is getting... apparently json-ld data has to be inlined. This is one of the most idiotic engineering decision I've ever seen: besides duplicating the data, like content, you HAVE to duplicate it within the same document.
#
sknebel activitypub doesn't inline, it uses separate feeds
#
sknebel Google wants JSON-LD inlined for their SEO stuff, cause they don
#
sknebel 't want to fetch extra stuff
#
petermolnar I'm so tired of all the competing formats
#
@pixelsforhumans Webmentions: Enabling Better Communication on the Internet http://alistapart.com/article/webmentions-enabling-better-communication-on-the-internet (twitter.com/_/status/1022833485818544128)
[jgmac1106] and jeremycherfas joined the channel
#
jgmac1106_ @sknebel++
#
Loqi sknebel has 39 karma in this channel (117 overall)
#
jgmac1106_ That worked. https://twitter.com/Greg34420489/status/1022834800552497152
#
@Greg34420489 Hello Twitter (https://sempress.jgregorymcverry.com/uncategorized/27/) (twitter.com/_/status/1022834800552497152)
#
jgmac1106_ hopefully the weather holds and the kids go to the pool so I can record later
#
jgmac1106_ I will say seeing how Snopes used the custom form fields in WordPress for Claim/Review was pretty cool. Also note only paid partners get to know the authors of reviews. This was noted as both a monetization and security strategy.
#
@DataSalon It's good to share! Introducing 'Webmentions' - an open standard for web communication: https://alistapart.com/article/webmentions-enabling-better-communication-on-the-internet (twitter.com/_/status/1022835929843675137)
eli_oat joined the channel
#
petermolnar json-ld REQUIRES an image field for a BlogPosting?!
#
petermolnar I think I'll stop reading now
#
sknebel schema.org seems pretty questionable, yes
snarfed joined the channel
#
jgmac1106_ I just meant how the fields were used and populated not so much the json-ld approach to credibility…..so reminded me of the early days of credit card payments and everybody wanting a diffeerent logo and no consumer caring
#
jgmac1106_ but I spend many hours trying to teach young kids to evaluate claims and evidence so seeing their workflow in WordPress and how form fields could be connected to any kind of metadata at UI level was neat
#
snarfed hi oodani! figured it might be easier to talk granary here than on twitter
#
snarfed (re https://md.hecke.rs/s/SJ4pyGu4m )
#
snarfed here's example code to generate AS1 from an mf2 h-feed: https://github.com/snarfed/granary/blob/mf2py/app.py#L179-L180
#
oodani ah, so json_to_object works when mapped over the individual h-entries, and then there's a make_activities_base_response call at the end?
#
snarfed yes, but you probaby don't need make_activities_base_response
#
snarfed that's for serving an API response over HTTP
#
oodani ah, fair enough. i imagine django-rest-framework will handle that part for me :p
#
oodani does granary work with paginated feeds? i noticed the activitystreams output on granary.io has "items per page" fields, but it doesn't seem to have a field for the page's rel="next" attribute
#
oodani i'm not sure how activitystreams handles pagination so. maybe it works and i just don't understand it yet?
#
snarfed oodani: yes, granary roughly supports paging. AS is just the data format. the API is OpenSocial (lol): https://granary.readthedocs.io/en/latest/#using
#
snarfed you include startIndex and/or count query params in the HTTP request
[miklb] joined the channel
#
snarfed ah, no, i see what you mean. if you give granary an HTML page as input with rel=next or rel=prev, it doesn't currently know to follow those. that'd be a great addition! PRs welcome!
#
oodani yeah, that's what i had in mind :p
#
snarfed slightly related to https://github.com/snarfed/granary/issues/152
#
Loqi [jameysharp] #152 Atom/RSS feed paging
#
oodani i should probably look into how formats besides microformats2 actually work :3
#
snarfed maybe! or not :P
#
Loqi I agree
#
snarfed all depends on what you want to do
#
oodani still a little vague on what i want, honestly ;)
#
snarfed lol aren't we all
[kim_landwehr] joined the channel
#
oodani i do know i want granary to be outputting atom - on the live version of my site i'm using django's feed framework and it produces /really weird/ xml? <link> tags with a </link> instead of a />, stuff like that
#
oodani and it looks like to get atom out of granary, i need to put activitystreams into it :p
#
snarfed yup, AS1 is granary's common base format
#
oodani sending my html to granary.io produces pretty nice atom already, so i could technically just render to html and then have granary parse that, but it'll be quicker if i can keep everything in dictionaries :p
#
snarfed also maybe consider just using django's, if it's ok otherwise! separate </link> closing tags in atom may not be as pretty as self-closing, but they are valid, and harmless
#
snarfed also, re latency, i expect the network round trip to/from granary swamps the time for your site to serve html vs another format
#
oodani the atom from granary is also "enriched" with activitystreams types and such, which django's isn't, and i think it'd be useful to have that extra info?
#
cweiske feed readers will not care about that
jeremycherfas joined the channel
#
snarfed right, i don't know much that consumes it. maybe mastodon, but it needs way more than that to actually interoperate
#
oodani hmm
#
snarfed regardless, feel free to use granary's atom if you want!
#
oodani :3
#
oodani i've installed granary as a library so using it shouldn't introduce any extra latency btw. seemed to make sense since my site's already python?
[snarfed] joined the channel
#
[snarfed] ahh yes right
strugee joined the channel
#
[miklb] if someone distributes a self-signed cert for local dev on https, and someone were to put that cert on a site with malicious code, and I’ve authorized it locally in my browser, then navigate to malicious site, my browser would accept the cert, yes?
#
cweiske the domain would have to match
#
oodani there's a few other prerequisites for that kind of attack - in particular, the attacker would need to poison your dns in order to have the malicious site use the same domain name as is on the certificate - but yep
#
cweiske if you lose your own CA certificate then you have a problem
#
cweiske but not if you only lose the domain certificate
#
oodani ^
#
[miklb] ah, ok. thanks
[pfefferle] joined the channel
#
[miklb] I guess I’m still not inclined to trust a cert that is being distributed widely with a WordPress theme.
#
oodani yeah i wouldn't trust that either
#
oodani use your own certificate instead imho
#
[miklb] that option is there, but I’m trying to advise against distributing one, but mostly going on gut instinct
#
[miklb] thanks again for the feedback.
[jgarber] joined the channel
#
[jgarber] Good morning/afternoon/evening, IndieWeb!
#
[jgarber] If any Ruby folks have some spare cycles, I’ve got a couple open PRs in need of review:
#
[jgarber] => https://github.com/indieweb/microformats-ruby/pull/89
#
[jgarber] => https://github.com/indieweb/webmention-client-ruby/pull/16
#
[jgarber] Your feedback is much appreciated!
#
Loqi [jgarber]: sknebel left you a message 5 days ago: curious why a bunch of packages for different endpoints instead of one generic rel=x-finding one?
#
Loqi [jgarber]: sknebel left you a message 5 days ago: curious why a bunch of packages for different endpoints instead of one generic rel=x-finding one?
#
Loqi [jgarber]: sknebel left you a message 5 days ago: curious why a bunch of packages for different endpoints instead of one generic rel=x-finding one?
#
Loqi [jgarber]: sknebel left you a message 5 days ago: curious why a bunch of packages for different endpoints instead of one generic rel=x-finding one?
#
Loqi [jgarber]: sknebel left you a message 5 days ago: curious why a bunch of packages for different endpoints instead of one generic rel=x-finding one?
#
Loqi [jgarber623] #16 Refactor Endpoint Discovery
#
Loqi [jgarber623] #89 Miscellaneous cleanup
#
sknebel woah, Loqi?!
#
sknebel (that was *one* !tell, not 5)
#
[jgarber] Good question, sknebel. I believe I wrote the individual gems in such a way that they could easily be rolled up by a top-level meta gem that makes a single HTTP request and parses the response using whichever combination of `rel` values you might be looking for.
#
[jgarber] …or, you could include just the one gem for the one `rel` value your project cares about.
#
[jgarber] The use case is arguable, to be certain. But it makes for some small, easily testable gems.
#
[jgarber] Tangential to that, what is interesting (to me, at least…) is the difference in Webmention’s and Micropub’s endpoint discovery algorithms:
#
[jgarber] => https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/#sender-discovers-receiver-webmention-endpoint
#
[jgarber] => https://www.w3.org/TR/micropub/#endpoint-discovery
#
sknebel in practice, those are identical, the micropub one is just documented a lot less detailed
#
[miklb] snarfed++ https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/756#issuecomment-313236108
#
Loqi snarfed has 70 karma in this channel (406 overall)
#
sknebel which is why I asked the question: generally, you can use the same rel-finding code for all our use cases unless I'm totally forgetting about something.
#
Loqi [gRegorLove] API docs: https://dev.twitter.com/rest/reference/post/media/metadata/create
#
[jgarber] sknebel: You certainly could!
eli_oat joined the channel
#
[jgarber] sknebel: Posted an issue on w3c/Micropub related to our conversation => https://github.com/w3c/Micropub/issues/112
#
Loqi [jgarber623] #112 Should Endpoint Discovery documentation match Webmention spec?
eli_oat joined the channel
#
jeremych- !tell tantek Rebecca Blood was an early influence on my web presence and then she sort of drifted off.
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
[cleverdevil] joined the channel
#
[cleverdevil] !tell [manton] I'm getting pretty close with a functional version of a Facebook -> Micro.blog toolkit. The only hangup is that Micro.blog doesn't seem to be respecting the `published` property of the MF2 JSON that I am sending across via Micropub, so all of the content ends up with the wrong date/time of publish.
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
[jgmac1106] and [kevinmarks] joined the channel
#
[kevinmarks] Known had that issue too.
[manton] joined the channel
#
[manton] [cleverdevil] Micro.blog definitely supports `published` with form-encoded params because we use that for the Instagram import, but yeah, must be missing from MF2 JSON. Should be an easy fix.
#
[manton] Should be fixed now.
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
[cleverdevil] Thanks [manton]! I’ll test in a bit.
tantek__ and KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
@codedcontainer While webmention seem like a great idea from a SEO perspective I think its success will be based on it's popularity. http://ow.ly/LeQ030l362l #w3c #webdevelopment (twitter.com/_/status/1022889712204357632)
benwerd joined the channel
#
KartikPrabhu webmention has nothing to do with SEO
#
sknebel of course it has, just like Trackbacks. you can put spammy links on other people's sites and then a few months later beg them to delete it to get rid of your google penalties for spammy backlinks
#
sknebel :P
#
jgmac1106_ webmention succeeds by ignoring seo
#
sknebel (well, hopefully we get this spam thing figured out and this doesn't actually happen)
#
KartikPrabhu sknebel: spam is a different issue. supporting webmentions (after spam handling) has no SEO things
#
sknebel my fear with SEO types is that they consider spam SEO
[chrisaldrich] and [cleverdevil] joined the channel
#
[cleverdevil] [manton]++ for fixing the `published` support in Micro.blog MF2 JSON!
#
Loqi manton has 13 karma in this channel (75 overall)
snarfed, [chrisaldrich], adamthephantump, eli_oat, [Vanessa] and KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
@NortixBlog Test 1 Test 2 Test 3 Test 4 Test 5 Test 6 Test 7 Test 8 Test 9 Test 10 Test 11 Test 12 Test 13 Test 14 Test 15 Test 16 Test 17 Test 18 Test 19 Test 20 Test 21 Test 22 Test 23 (http://nortix.blog/webmention-test/) (twitter.com/_/status/1022917218902966272)
benwerd and [chrisaldrich] joined the channel
#
@kevinmarks ↩️ @Paul_Kinlan wher are you templates? I'd like to fix your mf2 properly. Also, I think you might like Microsub https://indieweb.org/Microsub (twitter.com/_/status/1022926700831748097)
[jgmac1106], KartikPrabhu, snarfed and benwerd joined the channel
#
jgmac1106_ [gRegorLove] back to the question of is Css Grid an equal serving of div soup than bootstrap. Almost equal for me now but there is a bunch of shorthand I will be able to use in the future when I understand that I think will lead to cleaner HTML
tantek__, [pfefferle], snarfed and [miklb] joined the channel
#
sknebel What is i18n?
#
Loqi Internationalization (AKA internationalisation, i18n; localization, l10n.) is the process of adapting software/content to various languages https://indieweb.org/i18n
#
sknebel i18n << language
#
Loqi ok, I added "[[language]]" to a new "See Also" section of /internationalization https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=50359&oldid=33439
#
loqi.me edited /internationalization (+32) "sknebel added "[[language]]" to "See Also"" (view diff)
snarfed, [chrisaldrich], KartikPrabhu, benwerd, KevinMarks and [kevinmarks] joined the channel
#
[kevinmarks] Bootstrap is more div soupy as it tends to want very nested divs, whereas grid and flexbox want one layer
#
@kpodnar Webmentions as a specification has only recently become a broad recommendation for use on the internet, but it could make the business of #digital + #digitalmarketing a cross-platform conversation that reaches more people in an easier way. https://kpodnar.link/better-comm via @alistapart (twitter.com/_/status/1022975168795291648)
#
KartikPrabhu judas priest! now marketers are on the webmention thing too
[ryan339] joined the channel
#
[ryan339] i can’t wait to interact with brands on my own website!
snarfed joined the channel
#
KartikPrabhu good time to at least implement some blacklisting for webmentions
benwerd and snarfed joined the channel
#
@shoggothkitty Webmentions: Enabling Better Communication on the Internet http://CVSoci.al/K4~HebI~ (twitter.com/_/status/1022989210389753856)
snarfed1 and benwerd joined the channel