#dev 2018-08-10

2018-08-10 UTC
darkengine10, Dread10, tantek__, Patrick25, renem, [jgmac1106] and [tantek] joined the channel
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loqi.me created /In_case_you_missed (+245) "prompted by tantek__ and dfn added by tantek__" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /In_case_you_missed (+219) "tantek__ added "Criticism: The only option you are given in the web UI is to choose "See less often". There is no obvious way to turn off such "In case you missed" notifications from the [[notifications]] list page." to "See Also"" (view diff)
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snarfed tantek__: saw your latest bridgy github comment failure. 404 using the REST API to create a comment in that repo. private repos, amirite :(
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tantek__ !tell snarfed it's ok, I'm happy to be the private repo test subject. now it's "just" a documentation problem. :)
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Loqi tantek__: snarfed left you a message 10 hours, 54 minutes ago: ok commenting on private repos should be happier now too. thanks for your patience and reports. :P private repos are tricky!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek__ wat
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Zegnat Hmm. Interesting design challenge. In Chrome it looks like the focus ring sticks around after clicking an option: https://wiki.zegnat.net/temp/toggle.html
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Zegnat That looks really out of place on mobile ... anyone have any ideas for a fix?
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[grantcodes] Zegnat: Inset box shadow>
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[grantcodes] ?
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[grantcodes] Oh also the default browser focus ring can be disabled
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Zegnat The outline is already a box shadow.
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[grantcodes] Think it might be outline: none
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Zegnat I'm not using the default. Which may be part of the issue.
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Zegnat There is a lot of styling to make that custom three tier switch, haha
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[grantcodes] Radio buttons and checkboxes are the worst
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Zegnat Yep. But I'm kinda stuck with radio buttons unless I go with JavaScript for the form element.
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[grantcodes] I said inset box shadows just because I personally think it looks better without anything sicking out 😛
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Zegnat When I am tabbing around a page I very much appreciate the "sticking out" outline. Hehe.
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Zegnat I am not much of a designer though, so the switch could probably look much better. This is just what I have now.
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Zegnat Firefox for desktop seems to handle it just fine. Clicking any of the icons enables it without adding the outline.
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[grantcodes] Fair enough. Personal preferences and all that.
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jeremycherfas I'd be tempted to change the background colour, but that's just me. Also, I find the dark background makes the middle and right icons hard to interpret. What's the difference between them?
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Zegnat Little lock icon. I'm not 100% on the colours yet.
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Zegnat Three stages of visibility for my posts: private, accessible only through shared URL, fully public (on blog / search / etc)
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@eay ↩️ I think Andy is right for the near future, but I'm wondering what happens when WordPress is adding support for Webmentions and so on. Suddenly 1/4 of the web will be IndieWeb-compatible. (twitter.com/_/status/1027898798486499328)
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petermolnar erm ... https://dmytrish.net/blog/en/bash-tcp - so... who's willing to do a webmention receiver in bash?
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cweiske i made a http server in php for shpub, that's enough hackery in that area
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skippy good morning.
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Loqi morning!
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@til_mb ↩️ With your paid account: * everything from the free account * receive a blog, hosted by MB * create pages * template themes * customise with CSS + a footer for HTML/JS * use your own domain * connect with IndieAuth services * post from the web app (twitter.com/_/status/1027922291336904705)
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@vhendetta Webmentions: Enabling Better Communication on the Internet #webmentions http://rviv.ly/ARJkKY (twitter.com/_/status/1027931737823830016)
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@qubyte ↩️ I'll probably code a thing for my blog, and then blog about it, because my blog is entirely self-referential. (I'm going to make a little glitch app that automatically dispatches webmentions for new posts.) (twitter.com/_/status/1027937313526112262)
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aaronpk oops https://micro.blog/macbirdie/782324
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Loqi [macbirdie] @danielpunkass Indieweb kids are saying that RSS isn't cool any more! What do I do?
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tantek__ lolwut
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tantek__ I mean it's true, only because RSS itself became a dead-end and stopped evolving.
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tantek__ but as long as people publish it, and people want to follow those who publish it, makes sense to support consuming it. Though doesn't kevinmarks have an RSS -> h-feed proxy at unmunge?
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aaronpk In the context of just blogging I guess it's still fine
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tantek__ sure. classic article title+body type stuff.
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tantek__ but even what is a note vs an article is undefined in RSS
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tantek__ so in the context of micro.blog, yeah, RSS is underspecified for that use-case (notes, replies, photos)
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gRegorLove ooh, just noticed the micro.blog conversation appears in chronological order now. Nice.
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aaronpk yea! and highlights the post for the permalink you visited
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gRegorLove oh cool
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@petermolnar ↩️ @bltavares You don't have to: https://deluvi.com/blog/webmention/ https://petermolnar.net/running-a-static-indieweb-site/ (twitter.com/_/status/1027988355424940038)
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skippy i admit i'm still struggling to understand how micro.blog works for poeple who already have a site. Is it just an easier way to distribute content to would-be readers who are mb-exclusive users?
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aaronpk yeah
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aaronpk that's the "social network" use of it
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aaronpk you don't have to be a micro.blog-exclusive user either
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skippy how so, aaronpk ?
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aaronpk well I added my micro.blog following timeline into aperture, so i never actually go to micro.blog but i still benefit from the network
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skippy oh, sure. you build the list on mb, then subscribe to the feed of that elsewhere, rather than subscribe one at a time to each person's mb feed.
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aaronpk yep
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aaronpk and a bunch of those people are actually hosting their content on their own domains, sometimes but not always powered by micro.blog
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skippy would be nice to remove the middleman, somehow.
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skippy shrugs.
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@noahzgordon ↩️ have you read up on Webmentions at all? could be a good start for decentralized and de-commodified content sharing. https://indieweb.org/Webmention (twitter.com/_/status/1027995741292310528)
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sknebel Zegnat: licit.li's TLS ALPN headers are still lying :/
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Zegnat No way to fix with nginx. I have another look at documentation at least once a month.
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Zegnat And I really can’t be bothered to setup a proxy infront of nginx just for that 1 domain
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Jacky oh so that's it?
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Jacky hm I could just not validate TLS I think
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Jacky nope doesn't matter
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Zegnat Sorry for the riddle Jacky. Happy to tell you what the actual problem is, if you don’t like riddles :)
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Zegnat petermolnar, if IE6 can handle the TLS version I am running, I guess I could allow it through based on a UA sniff
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petermolnar it can't, it also can't do http2
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[eddie] skippy: I think eventually we will get to the place where you don’t need a “middleman” for social connections. But in the state we’re in right now, you need it for discovery, moderation, etc.
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petermolnar you should make it ipv6 only as well
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[eddie] skippy: That said, if Microsub/Social Readers keep moving forward, I can see a not so distant future where a social reader is able to do a lot of that for us in a distributed manner
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Zegnat Assuming nginx has access to the UA at that step of resolution, I could let it resolve the request. But I don’t think I would change the TLS setup just for IE6
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Zegnat IPv6 is pretty much out, that would make me unable to connect :P
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Loqi it is probable
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petermolnar you'd feel the pain of services :P :D
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petermolnar Zegnat: https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/analyze.html?d=licit.li&s=78.47.108.169&latest -> see IE6/XP at the bottom
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Zegnat I love how even SSLLabs HTTP request fails. They should really be able to do better. *shakes head*
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Zegnat Oh, right IE is out because SNI. The default domain on that IP is vanderven.se, which is a lot more important to me
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Zegnat And I don’t really want to pay for a second IP to run licit.li without SNI
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sknebel Zegnat: do better than "request something your server claims to support"?
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sknebel :P
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sknebel (if you don't want to install yourself another proxy, an excellent oppertunity to learn some C and patch nginx instead?)
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Zegnat Yes, I don’t see how learning C from scratch to try and get a change accepted in the core ALPN handling could be a mistake XD
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sknebel run your own fork, much easier :D
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Zegnat Aah. There is the big amount of work petermolnar was talking about then.
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loqi.me created /TSV (+143) "prompted by [kevinmarks] and dfn added by [kevinmarks]" (view diff)
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@SBISCanada What are webmentions and how are they useful?  https://lnkd.in/drfKyaq (twitter.com/_/status/1028041675040600064)
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@callahad ↩️ Apparently WebMention is the new hotness, and is basically a pingback but with more HTTP and less XML-RPC. I found the table in this Wikipedia article really helpful when I was trying to recall this stuff last week: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linkback (twitter.com/_/status/1028046845556273152)
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aaronpk whoa that table
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tantek__ seriously
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tantek__ makes webmention look pretty good
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tantek__ need more rows for: "use of markup"
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tantek__ none | RDF in HTML comments | link rel | link rel + microformats2
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tantek__ and "response types supported"
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snarfed hmm, pingback's first two disadvantages are webmention's too
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Loqi snarfed: tantek__ left you a message 18 hours, 28 minutes ago: it's ok, I'm happy to be the private repo test subject. now it's "just" a documentation problem. :)
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aaronpk yes but pingback's second disadvantage is also an advantage ;-)
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tantek__ http mention claims | link mention claims | blog post mentions | comments, likes, reposts, bookmarks etc.
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aaronparecki.com edited /post-type-discovery (+72) "also link to issues on github" (view diff)
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GWG I support all Linkbacks
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tantek__ aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 101 karma in this channel over the last year (309 in all channels)
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tantek__ GWG some are spammier than others
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tantek__ in particular refbacks are vuln to an iot bot army faking http referers
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tantek__ and trackbacks have long been 99.99% spam
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tantek__ pingbacks are the only legacy linkbacks that have some chance of signal amongst the noise
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tantek__ wow SFO wifi IP addresses are block by wikipedia for a .28 subnet!
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GWG I have not gotten many since I wrote it
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GWG I should publish that
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tantek__ I guess that's more chat - sorry
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tantek__ GWG you may have gotten lucky
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Loqi yea
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tantek__ may *be* getting lucky
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tantek__ when it happens you might get a massive ton of it on lots of old posts
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tantek__ so you won't see it unless you're monitoring/moderating for all mentions
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snarfed related: https://snarfed.org/wordpress-spam-statistics-comments-pingbacks-trackbacks
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snarfed (anecdotal)
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tantek__ oh yeah comment form spam is much worse than either
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GWG I am moderating everything
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tantek__ including moderation?
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tantek__ ;)
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GWG Everything in moderation
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aaronparecki.com edited /ActivityStreams (+584) "/* Issues */" (view diff)
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GWG I wrote refback support in an hour or so to get more data for Vouch
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tantek__ huh that's an interesting idea
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GWG How so?
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aaronparecki.com edited /ActivityStreams (+28) "fix examples" (view diff)
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tantek__ TFW when you buy a domain just to host a single post / article - quite the indieweb statement https://infocivics.com/ (by a co-founder/creator of Beaker)
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tantek__ skimmed it and it filled my brain. going to need to read it thoroughly on a flight
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tantek__ lots of good analysis in there
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tantek__ applicable to nearly all our protocols / formats / building blocks
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GWG tantek, still curious about my question? Interesting how?
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aaronpk silo.rip now redirects to site-deaths
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aaronparecki.com edited /site-deaths (+54) "add short link to this page so that it's easier to say. you're welcome schmarty." (view diff)
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[kevinmarks] Lol https://twitter.com/Foone/status/1027990726540312581?s=19
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@Foone but Guido didn't accept my proposal for python 3 where if you try to split a string on ',' it opens a webbrowser to the docs for the CSV module and another tab for Beginning Programming For Dummies https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DkQoFtcUYAEoP2B.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/1027990726540312581)
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tantek__ lol aaronpk
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tantek__ TIL: there's a .rip TLD
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tantek__ but is there a .til TLD?
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[schmarty] aaronpk++ lol thanks! 😂
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Loqi aaronpk has 102 karma in this channel over the last year (310 in all channels)
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[kevinmarks] I let xmlrip.com lapse.
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tantek__ would be even cooler if .rip TLDs could be bought forever with a one time purchase
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tantek__ the you put in your will to staticify all your content, move it to .rip, and redirect all your other domains accordingly
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aaronpk lol!
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tantek__ presto! indie tombstone!
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[kevinmarks] http://mention.tech/getfromarchive?url=http://xmlrip.com
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tantek__ that is a bad pun kevinmarks
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aaronpk that pun can rest in peace
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aaronpk hmm
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aaronpk if site-deaths were a list of h-events, I could make silo.rip into a pretty site
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tantek__ oh boy
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[kevinmarks] I think I was having a SOAP argument when I bought it
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tantek__ kevinmarks, sounds like you were all WaShed up
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tantek__ aaronpk: if we had a single-site-death media wiki template that generated an h-event ...
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aaronpk calling all template masters
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tantek__ -> meta
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aaronparecki.com edited /site-deaths (+422) (view diff)
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tantek__ this is worth documenting somewhere, either on /ActivityPub or /JSON-LD: https://twitter.com/dustyweb/status/1028003711824678912
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@dustyweb There's been a lot of misinformation about JSON-LD and its inclusion in ActivityPub. I wanted to clear some of it up: https://octodon.social/web/statuses/100527636732474823 (twitter.com/_/status/1028003711824678912)
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aaronpk ActivityPub << https://octodon.social/web/statuses/100527636732474823
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Loqi ok, I added "https://octodon.social/web/statuses/100527636732474823" to the "See Also" section of /ActivityPub https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=50833&oldid=50751
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aaronpk Loqi: y u no expand octodon
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Loqi http://meme.loqi.me/m/4vtQrtTS.jpg
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@manton2 ↩️ Sure, the focus is on custom domain names and blogs. Not really trying to solve usernames yet. I think it's much more important to encourage owning your content at your own site: that's domain names. Cross-site replies (via Webmention) and usernames can evolve from there. (twitter.com/_/status/1028066538018955264)
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@ReBeccaOrg ↩️ Essentially you publish a URL that folks can POST (or the like) to which tells you that they did the equivalent of retweeting you, replying to you or faving you. And as @callahad said, WebMention is the latest iteration... https://indieweb.org/Webmention (twitter.com/_/status/1028067345753759744)