#dev 2018-08-16

2018-08-16 UTC
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loqi.me created /account_migration (+297) "prompted by tantek__ and dfn added by tantek__" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /timeline (+128) "/* 2018 */ Oxford, NYC" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /losing_followers (+460) "prompted by tantek__ and dfn added by tantek__" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /losing_followers (+214) "tantek__ added "https://xoxo.zone/@fraying/100540008323383964" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /account_migration (+40) "tantek__ added "[[losing followers]]" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /NYC (+49) "2018/NYC" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /timeline (-1) "fix numbers for NYC camps. 2014 was the second one." (view diff)
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loqi.me created /account_portability (+30) "prompted by tantek__ and redirect added by tantek__" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /move_your_account (+30) "prompted by tantek__ and redirect added by tantek__" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /account_migration (+85) "AKAs" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /account_migration (+69) "supporting protocols and open issues" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /test (+60) "aaronpk added "https://github.com/aaronpk/self/issues/6" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /losing_followers (+240) "solutions / websub" (view diff)
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tantek.com moved /data-portability to /data_portability "--"
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tantek.com edited /Sites_with_data_portability (+0) "r--" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /sites_with_data_portability (-11) "r--" (view diff)
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tantek__ !tell kevinmarks you have thought about (and discussed) these issues / problems a lot, could you review indieweb.org/account_migration and indieweb.org/losing_followers? Especially if you have more examples / issues / solutions to cite
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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mblaney ^should all wiki edits go to meta too? It looks different edits go to different channels... is there a rule for that?
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Loqi mblaney: dougbeal left you a message 3 weeks ago: its alive! I was able to log in.
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aaronparecki.com edited /test () "(-562) yay" (view diff)
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tantek__ mblaney it's a good question
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tantek__ heh that's a meta topic itself :)
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aaronpk right now the only wiki edits that go to -meta are ones for meta pages
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loqi.me created /semweb (+16) "prompted by tantek__ and redirect added by tantek__" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /dweb (+272) "prompted by tantek__ and dfn added by tantek__" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /snarkinition (+370) "criticisms, to fix" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /Google_Contacts (+30) "tantek__ added "[[Google]]" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Posts_about_the_IndieWeb (+229) "blockquote from NYT article" (view diff)
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@k4rtik ↩️ @vmiheer I found an upcoming solution to this problem -- webmentions! See: https://kfitz.info/connections/ (twitter.com/_/status/1029929747352961024)
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[kevinmarks] The frustrating thing is that websub solves it.
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Loqi [kevinmarks]: tantek__ left you a message 6 hours, 22 minutes ago: you have thought about (and discussed) these issues / problems a lot, could you review indieweb.org/account_migration and indieweb.org/losing_followers? Especially if you have more examples / issues / solutions to cite
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[kevinmarks] But as noted, activitypub makes it more complex
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[kevinmarks] I'm not completely sure what mastodon does now.
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tantek.com edited /timeline (+42) "/* 2010 */ citation for indie web term" (view diff)
KartikPrabhu, plindner[m], MetBril, DarthGandalf19, myfreeweb[m], zoglesby, grantcodes[m], eli_oat[m], rkta, fwilson and cylon512_ joined the channel
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@niklas_jordan Webmentions: Enabling Better Communication on the Internet https://buff.ly/2nGp0i3 (twitter.com/_/status/1030016374360494080)
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[kevinmarks] hm. woodwind is long gone. Aperture doesn't work with known.kevinmarks.com micropub. silo.pub is dead; https://silopub.p3k.io/ doesn't work with twitter any more.
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[kevinmarks] I may have to yakshave myself into a new micropub enabled site to use microsub
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[kevinmarks] can't get aperture/monocle to work on kevinmarks.com either
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[kevinmarks] is this a www. problem?
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[kevinmarks] yep. If i login to aperture with kevinmarks.com I'm user 89, but monocle follows the redirect to www and then that is rejected
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[kevinmarks] now I'm user 90 for www
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[kevinmarks] not sure if I should file a bug at aperture or monocle for that
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Loqi http://meme.loqi.me/m/4vz5ASbh.jpg
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sknebel Aperture
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sknebel 301 redirects should be followed for auth
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Zegnat They should not only be followed, they should overwrite aswell. So you shouldn’t be able to have/login with the identity “kevinmarks.com”. Only “www.kevinmarks.com”.
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sknebel what I meant
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[kevinmarks] https://github.com/aaronpk/Aperture/issues/52
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Loqi [kevinmarks] #52 auth with www redirection has problems
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[kevinmarks] https://alltogethernow.io/ is not happy about this either (does it require micropub?)
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[kevinmarks] my policy of using community tools is biting me - I need to self-host more
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Zegnat This is interesting, because Aperture uses the standard PHP IndieAuth client. And I thought that did all of the URL stuff correctly
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sknebel yes it does :/ https://github.com/cleverdevil/together/issues/63
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Loqi [grantcodes] #63 Support login without a micropub endpoint
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sknebel (although you could maybe just make an endpoint up, not sure if it actually does anything to verify it)
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Zegnat I might know what is going wrong with Aperture
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Zegnat adds to issue to try and save aaronpk the time
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sknebel !tell snarfed I just saw your site has a "mention" property on posts (in addition to "comment" for comments), is that something you added or a wordpress thing? didn't see it documented anywhere
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[grantcodes] [kevinmarks] yes Together won't let you log in without a micropub endpoint at the moment. You could try the false one. I think with that you'd be able to use the reader, but no guarantees you wouldn't run into issues.
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Zegnat suddenly has the idea for a /dev/null endpoint that reacts to all calls correctly without actually doing anything
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[grantcodes] In this case it shouldn't really check for the micropub endpoint. It's a leftover from copied code for micropub clients.
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[grantcodes] Might be a bit of a pain disabling all the micropub stuff in together though
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aaronpk Wait why doesn't https://silopub.p3k.io/ work with twitter? I'm still using that to tweet
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[kevinmarks] I got an auth error
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[kevinmarks] <class 'requests_oauthlib.oauth1_session.TokenRequestDenied'>
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[kevinmarks] whenI click the twitter icon
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[kevinmarks] maybe your token is still good but the login flow has changed?
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[kevinmarks] FB gives a json error on their side
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[kevinmarks] looks like flickr works, so I could post there…
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[kevinmarks] legacy code rots less?
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jgregorymcverry.com edited /Leaders (+209) "/* Code of Conduct */ need to develop process for event reporting" (view diff)
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sknebel aaronpk: I think you just broke aperture login
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aaronpk wat crap
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sknebel $url = self::resolveMeURL($url); should probably be IndieAuth\Client:: resolveMeURL($url);
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aaronpk :sigh:
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sknebel tests++ :P
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Loqi tests has 7 karma in this channel over the last year (12 in all channels)
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aaronpk haven't had enough coffee yet
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aaronpk i am at a disadvantage right now on my secondary laptop, none of my dev apps are set up here
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aaronpk gonna pick up my main laptop from the apple store repair when i get back to portland on monday
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aaronpk cool i can now log in with my short domain
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sknebel hm, I still get "something went wrong"
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aaronpk ooh DOMNode::appendChild(): Document Fragment is empty
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aaronpk i thought we fixed this
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sknebel forgot to update aperture?
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aaronpk hm no it's on 0.4.5
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sknebel hm... pin13 parses my page just fine
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aaronpk that doesn't make sense
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sknebel (although looking at output reminds me I need to fix some things...)
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aaronpk ok how does this work... composer.lock says it's on 0.4.5 but that fix is definitely not in the code. did i just forget to composer install at some point?
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aaronpk yep
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aaronpk k try again
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Zegnat I find that an interesting error. I am not sure why an appendChild error even exists there.
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aaronpk Zegnat: the fix was adding this hasChildNodes check https://github.com/microformats/php-mf2/blob/master/Mf2/Parser.php#L856
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sknebel also, composer.lock still points to indieweb org, not microformats, but that redirects for now
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Zegnat Yeah, I saw the fix that was deployed aaronpk. It was just the error that didn’t make sense to me. I didn’t think xmlib would have any issue appending an empty document fragment.
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aaronpk sknebel: oh funny, i'm not sure how that gets fixed... i guess the next release will tell packagist that it's moved? packagist links to the right place now
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sknebel worked now
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Zegnat Just running `composer upgrade` (or w/e it was) doesn’t fix the lock file?
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aaronpk apparently not
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Zegnat surprising
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aaronpk i think i may have fixed the url on packagist *after* having released 0.4.5 so maybe that URL is baked in to the release
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[kevinmarks] the ux for adding people to lists on twitter is crap
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snarfed sknebel: wow i don't understand. got an example link?
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Loqi snarfed: sknebel left you a message 4 hours, 16 minutes ago: I just saw your site has a "mention" property on posts (in addition to "comment" for comments), is that something you added or a wordpress thing? didn't see it documented anywhere
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snarfed i expect it's syndication links, but... ???
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sknebel http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsnarfed.org%2F2018-08-03_rip-facebook-for-bridgy - "mention": [ { "type": [ "h-cite" …
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Loqi [Ryan Barrett] RIP Facebook for Bridgy
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snarfed ahh mf2
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Zegnat Also looks like there is a like property
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snarfed sknebel: yeah i expect that's GWG's syndication-links plugin marking up comments of different types. mention is probably when it didn't find anything specific
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[grantcodes] That is exactly what I was talking about yesterday
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sknebel that's why I noticed it
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snarfed https://indieweb.org/comments#How_to_markup
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snarfed (kind of related)
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sknebel yes, that doesn't mention any of those
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sknebel so if the plugins do that it should probably be documented somewhere as experimental or such
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aaronpk [eddie] your <time> elements are missing a datetime attribute with the actual time!
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@QienKuen Webmentions: Enabling Better Communication on the Internet http://alistapart.com/article/webmentions-enabling-better-communication-on-the-internet (twitter.com/_/status/1030126170493181952)
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GWG Its Semantic Linkbacks, not Syndication Links
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@ChrisAldrich ↩️ Let me know if you need help finding resources. I see you have a Hugo site and I'm pretty sure someone has set it up for Webmention use before. https://indieweb.org/Hugo https://boffosocko.com/2018/08/16/reply-to-kartik-singhal-about-webmention/ (twitter.com/_/status/1030134204284059648)
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@ChrisAldrich ↩️ Also @qubyte and I have an informal club for folks in quantum who support Webmention. ;) https://boffosocko.com/2018/08/16/reply-to-kartik-singhal-about-webmention/?replytocom=71238#respond https://twitter.com/ChrisAldrich/status/1020191933635932160 (twitter.com/_/status/1030134704421273600)
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snarfed.org edited /own_your_data (+715) "clarify and expand on two key pillars: domain and data access." (view diff)
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snarfed ^ re earlier discussion. feedback is welcome!
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[eddie] aaronpk: oops! good catch. I’m accidentally passing my momentjs object to datetime, so its not rendering it properly!
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[eddie] attempts to fix date, breaks whole page of my live site
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[eddie] gives Loqi a broken website
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Loqi grabs the broken website
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snarfed #hugops
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snarfed ruh roh. bridgy's over-aggressive webmention endpoint caching finally failed in the real world
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[eddie] hmmm does mf2 datetime matter if it has my timezone or if it’s in UTC?
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[eddie] Uh oh!
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aaronpk [eddie]: make sure you set the timezone offset to *something*
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aaronpk preferably your local timezone
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snarfed ([eddie] if you include the time zone offset, either should be ok, right?)
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snarfed bridgy caches wm endpoints by domain, but micro.blog only advertizes its endpoint on user or post pages, not on the https://micro.blog/ homepage
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[eddie] Hmmm momentjs is being tricky. At least my posts have a datetime 🙂 I’ll have to investigate a bit later to make sure its 100%
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snarfed so whenever bridgy runs wm discovery against the home page, it finds no endpoint, and then drops wms targeting any micro.blog user or post until that cache entry expires
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aaronpk ooh cause it caches lack of endpoint too?
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snarfed (not subdomains, just pages under https://micro.blog/ , but still)
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snarfed right
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aaronpk whoops
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aaronpk that's tricky
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snarfed background in https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/701
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snarfed sigh
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Loqi [snarfed] #701 finer grained webmention endpoint caching
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aaronpk special-case the / path?
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snarfed yeah maybe
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Zegnat Hmm. If you get a URL, and you check the root domain only, add back one step of the path every time you don’t find one? So for m.b/username/1234 you would check m.b/, then m.b/username/, then m.b/username/1234?
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Zegnat I think that fixes m.b., as the root user page advertises a webmention endpoint?
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snarfed no, that's odd and different
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snarfed the caching semantics are the problem
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Zegnat Ah, alright
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snarfed i can special case home pages and/or micro.blog, which will fix this case
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snarfed ...but honestly i've only ever *assumed* wm caching is necessary for bridgy due to scale. i've never actually measured and proved it. :P
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snarfed runs away
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aaronpk i'd go with home page special-casing
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snarfed yeah i guess
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aaronpk this may be a selfish wish
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aaronpk i have plans tho
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snarfed ...?
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aaronpk shh it's a secret
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snarfed mumbles mumbles messaging
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aaronpk i'll give you a hint: https://indieweb.org/SWAT0
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snarfed ah person tags
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@k4rtik ↩️ Oh, this is cool! I thought Hugo being a static site generator, it might need a lot of work to implement webmentions (I am yet to see details, but it's good to see some people have already done it). Thanks for reaching out and the encouragement. <3 (twitter.com/_/status/1030155984679968768)
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jgmac1106 I hope the bands we get for the Social Web Acid Test are just as good as the OG lineup
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sknebel heh, challenge for post rendering: <details><summary> tags, as in schmartys posts for the indieweb podcast - on stream.indieweb.org it just shows "show/hide transcript" as text
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sknebel (both rendering and microformats p- parsing issue I guess)
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aaronpk oh that's probably because xray strips those HTML tags
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aaronpk if i add those tags to the whitelist then it'll just pass them through
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@rektide ↩️ @cote Weaving the web with informed backlinkage continues, over at #webmention, https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/ (twitter.com/_/status/1030190835885920256)
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loqi.me created /chronological_feed (+334) "prompted by tantek__ and dfn added by tantek__" (view diff)
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davegoesthedistance.com edited /site-deaths (+53) "Updated Digg Reader" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /chronological_feed (+187) "tantek__ added "2018-03-22 [https://www.refinery29.com/2018/03/194408/instagram-new-posts-chronological-feed Finally, Good News For Everyone Who Misses Instagram's Chronological Feed]" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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davegoesthedistance.com edited /site-deaths (-243) "Removed duplicate Google short link info." (view diff)
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loqi.me created /chronological_timeline (+185) "prompted by tantek__ and dfn added by tantek__" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /chronological_timeline (+217) "tantek__ added "2018-01-30 Mashable: [https://mashable.com/2018/01/30/instagram-scheduled-posts-chronological-timeline/ Instagram gave brands a hot new feature, but still won't give users a chronological timeline]" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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@vhendetta Webmentions: Enabling Better Communication on the Internet #webmentions http://rviv.ly/1HJrxD (twitter.com/_/status/1030196596946989056)
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davegoesthedistance.com edited /site-deaths (+24) (view diff)
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davegoesthedistance.com edited /site-deaths (+50) "mapzen moved from upcoming" (view diff)
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aaronpk snarfed: how often are you polling instagram that you're hitting the rate limits? I feel lucky that i haven't hit that in ownyourgram, or maybe i just haven't noticed
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snarfed aaronpk: let's see...
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snarfed https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/603#issuecomment-249766868
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Loqi [snarfed] sure! details on request volume above and in https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-appengine/rpendSIxJMo/_u4G6uXiBQAJ : - i saw it after doing ~.1qps for a week or two - a Google engineer saw it after doing 100qps for 15s - @rummykhan saw it after d...
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snarfed lots of ad hoc, only semi scientific measurements
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aaronpk oh those are all way over what OYG does
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snarfed heh yeah
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sknebel snarfed: btw, did the mf2py improvements make a noticeable difference to bridgys resource usage?
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snarfed sknebel: sadly no. i suspect the new overhead may actually be due to BS4 or something else
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snarfed meh
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snarfed thanks for checking though
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GWG Morning
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