#dev 2018-09-04

2018-09-04 UTC
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aaronpk okay I can get an incomplete autolinking of markdown if I am willing to lose autolinking things inside html tags
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aaronpk o.O http://rubular.com/r/iFscFj3Mq7
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aaronpk nope nevermind, still doesn't work
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[kevinmarks] mung markdown into html, then use html conventions makes sense to me. at least html only has 2 magic characters
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aaronpk unfortunately it's more than just 2 magic characters
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aaronpk e.g. <a>@noautolink</a> <b>@autolink</b>
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aaronpk wtf, those spam pingbacks are still getting through and I can't figure out how
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miklb__ all from the same IP address?
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aaronpk nope
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aaronpk and from a variety of pages to a bunch of different wiki pages
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aaronpk sometimes the URL is even an instagram.com URL
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aaronpk so I really don't understand how my code is letting that pass
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[tantek] [kevinmarks] [aaronpk] my auto linker has to do all the markup stuff at the same time, like embedding, linking @-names
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[tantek] And yes it is idempotent, but only ok its own output. It’s not hardened to work on arbitrary HTML. As aaronpk noted, that’s much harder
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[tantek] *on its own HTML
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aaronpk So I managed to get it working on autolinking only inside the text content of nodes, but then when I go to serialize the HTML from the DOM object it breaks totally unrelated things
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aaronpk Once I’m traversing a DOM I can tell whether a text node is inside an <a> or <code> to avoid auto linking that text
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ludovicchabant hey here, do you people send Webmentions for all links in your articles, or just the one tagged with `in-reply-to`? Or something custom? What's the general Webmention etiquette?
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Zegnat !tell aaronpk were you using masterminds HTML5 parser for the DOM serialisation? If the to HTML step is breaking stuff in the default DOMDocument implementation you might want to try theirs.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Zegnat ludovicchabant, I'd sent webmentions to all links. The receivers can then use the in-reply-to data to see whether they were a specific target or just a "mention".
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Zegnat Some sites will split up replies and mentions in their display of interactions.
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[Niklas] Hey Dev’s! I am currently building my website with the Kirby CMS “new” and have now integrated Webmentions. The whole thing is local and I don’t have any reactions via webmentions yet, so I can’t test the display and function properly. Is there a way to create Webmentions for testing locally?
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petermolnar "The property occupation is not recognised by Google for an object of type Person." - shall I use PerformerIn...? Google gonna' google.
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petermolnar or brand? Am I a brand?
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[kevinmarks] Niklas, did you find webmention.rocks
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[kevinmarks] The /webmention page shows how to send them with curl
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Zegnat There is also https://github.com/voxpelli/node-webmention-testpinger for sending test webmentions, but I have heard that might be a little finicky to set up sometimes
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Loqi [voxpelli] node-webmention-testpinger: A tool to ping your site with a variety of real world WebMentions
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jeremycherfas ludovicchabant I send to all when it is automatic, from my stream on Known, and select when I do it manually, via Telegraph.
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[Niklas] Great, thanks for your solutions!
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[Niklas] I will test it
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[kevinmarks] https://xoxo.zone/@KevinMarks/100667092938711289
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Loqi [Kevin Marks] @kaniini you choose to use markdown. Now you don't know how many problems you have as everyone does lists differently. http://johnmacfarlane.net/babelmark2/?normalize=1&text=+8.+item+1%0A+9.+item+2%0A10.+item+2a
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[keithjgrant] What is webmention?
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Loqi Webmention is a web standard for mentions and conversations across the web, a powerful building block that is used for a growing federated network of comments, likes, reposts, and other rich interactions across the decentralized social web https://indieweb.org/Webmention
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[keithjgrant] ☝ has a webmention.svg.png
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[keithjgrant] Anywhere I can get an actual svg?
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[keithjgrant] (of the logo, I mean)
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[keithjgrant] Oh, n/m. Found it here https://github.com/aaronpk/webmention.io/blob/master/public/img/webmention-logo.svg
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petermolnar https://pfefferle.github.io/openwebicons/
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aaronpk Zegnat: good idea, I forgot that the masterminds one can serialize, since I was only using it for parsing before
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Loqi aaronpk: Zegnat left you a message 7 hours, 7 minutes ago: were you using masterminds HTML5 parser for the DOM serialisation? If the to HTML step is breaking stuff in the default DOMDocument implementation you might want to try theirs.
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aaronpk do I want to get sucked back down this rabbit hole today?
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aaronpk gives himself a 1 hour time limit
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Zegnat Put it on GitHub, assign the issue to me, watch me fuzz over DOM standards in PHP? :P
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aaronpk oh dear lol
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aaronpk it's too tied in to my website to put on github tho
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Zegnat Ah, the wrong part of p3k ;)
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aaronpk i'd like to turn my autolinking into a library, but the challenge is doing that in a way that is also extensible with a custom nicknames cache
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[kevinmarks] can you pass it a 'get url for nickname' function?
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aaronpk it's a little more complicated than that but yes
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aaronpk it's "get url for nickname" or "get silo-specific nickname for nickname" depending on the context
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aaronpk [grantcodes]: I made a little script that uses action=timeline&before=X to find new notifications since the last time it has run
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aaronpk so it only stores the "before" paging ID between runs
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[grantcodes] Yes that's what mine does too
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aaronpk I thought that was a neat use of the paging key
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[grantcodes] Yeah!
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aaronpk I was considering not sending a push notification if the item is already marked as read as well
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aaronpk since presumably if it's marked read it's because I saw it on my computer and the push would be redundant
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[grantcodes] Mine takes read into account
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aaronpk this runs every minute though so the odds of me seeing a notification on desktop before the script has run are slim
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[grantcodes] What it doesn't do is look look at a next page of results
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[grantcodes] But same thing, not likely to have more than a page of entries every minute
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aaronpk yeah same
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aaronpk do I really want to get 20+ notifications all at once anyway? probably not
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aaronpk i'll wait til I get the next bridgy flood and see how that feels
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[grantcodes] The other thing is maybe like to do is have some way of viewing the notification in your reader of choice but don't know how I'd handle that across readers / devices
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[tantek] What is autolink?
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Loqi An autolink is a hyperlink that was automatically added to some text to link that text to an obvious or useful destination, like hyperlinking a URL in plaintext to the URL itself, linking hashtags to search results, and @-names to their profile pages https://indieweb.org/autolink
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jeremycherfas I was just reading about the dangers of SVG in WP and worried that I might make a mistake.
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Zegnat aaronpk, “it's "get url for nickname" or "get silo-specific nickname for nickname" depending on the context”, does that really matter? Both would just be a call to something like translateMentions($html, $lookupSystem)? Just that when you are readying the text for twitter you are using the Twitter-specific $lookupSystem?
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[tantek] CASSIS << Falcon
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Loqi ok, I added "[[Falcon]]" to the "See Also" section of /CASSIS https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=51470&oldid=50127
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aaronpk Zegnat: URL vs nickname tho
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aaronpk I have two versions, one where I need to output HTML, the other where I need to replace nicknames in plaintext
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Zegnat Aah. I thought you would just be generating the plaintext from the HTML. So the replace code would work the same in both cases (always on the HTML)
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aaronpk hm, no, that sounds fragile
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aaronpk text -> html -> text?
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aaronpk when e.g. posse'ing to github, I need to send the actual text source that I wrote, with only usernames replaced. I don't send HTML and round-tripping back to text would actually break the markdown that github supports
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aaronpk this is why i'm worried this is too specific to my site
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Zegnat It is super workflow dependent.
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[tantek] Not necessarily
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Zegnat Do you always write 100% plain text entries though, aaronpk? I often found myself dropping in an HTML element or two.
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aaronpk Zegnat: I write either text, markdown, or HTML. my storage format has a property to tell what content type the source is.
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aaronpk so I basically need 3 different autolinkers
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petermolnar Zegnat: I barely ever do that, unless there's no way to avoid it; I'd rather make a conditional template based on meta information
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aaronpk although I think I will end up turning the markdown to html first, then running the html autolinker on that
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Zegnat aaronpk, yeah, that’s where I would prefer to convert all formats into one canonical format for post-processing such as autolinking.
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Zegnat Though I do understand that you are then stuck with an HTML copy you can’t easily POSSE to GitHub :(
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aaronpk right, I need the plaintext to posse to twitter and github
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[tantek] No. I POSSE HTML to Github via Bridgy “easily”
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aaronpk IIRC github won't link up <a href="http://github.com/aaronpk">aaronpk</a> the same way it does if you say just "@aaronpk"
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[tantek] I only autolink/embed/space etc “plain text”.
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Zegnat Bridgy has to turn that HTML to Markdown though, IIRC
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aaronpk ah right, I forgot you can actually type html in a github issue
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aaronpk probably becausse it's using a markdown parser that allows HTML
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[tantek] Yes, and there’s already libraries etc that do that (HTML->MD) so no need for me to reinvent/reimplement
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[tantek] Yes to Zegnat that is
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aaronpk the problem with that is the @-mentions aren't actual mentions when they are html hyperlinks
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aaronpk https://github.com/aaronpk/testing/issues/1
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ludovicchabant Thanks Zegnat and jeremycherfas for the replies last night! This means I should be able to use ronkyuu to do pretty much all the webmention related stuff
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Loqi [aaronpk] #1 test linking
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aaronpk (I wrote that as HTML in the web interface)
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aaronpk compare to this which I wrote as text https://github.com/aaronpk/testing/issues/2
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Loqi [aaronpk] #2 test linking 2
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[tantek] Aaronpk I count that as GH’s bug
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aaronpk you are more willing to have things not work than I am then
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[tantek] Because they already recognize their own issue links
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[tantek] So clearly they have code to recognize Github.com links
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[tantek] They’re just dropping profile links on the floor when they should be recognizing them
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[tantek] Because profile links are simpler and shorter than issue links
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[tantek] WDYM by “not work”?
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[tantek] The links work fine
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[tantek] Notifications?
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aaronpk right, notifications and other things that github does with native mentions
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Zegnat Do they support issue links?
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[tantek] Yes
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aaronpk just tested that
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aaronpk https://github.com/aaronpk/testing/issues/3
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Loqi [aaronpk] #3 test linking to an issue
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aaronpk I wrote that as HTML, linking to issue 1
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aaronpk and it does show up on issue 1
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Zegnat Ah, that’s good!
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aaronpk as "referenced this issue"
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[kevinmarks] I always paste URLs for issues , and GH seems to cope
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aaronpk so by that logic, I would agree that github should be treating hyperlinks of github usernames the same way as @-mentions
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Zegnat I seem to recall a time where, if you didn’t want the link to show up as a reference on the other side, you could just make it an explicit markdown link
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[tantek] Aaronpk exactly
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aaronpk [kevinmarks]: we're not talking about plaintext URLs, we're talking about actual hyperlinks like <a>
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Zegnat And only GitHub’s own short syntax (aaronpk/testing#3) would show the link relation ship on the other side. But either I am misremembering or they have fixed that.
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[kevinmarks] yes, I do that because they have a 'make a link' button in the editor
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[kevinmarks] and I don't know their short syntaxes
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[kevinmarks] https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/1036975704569729025
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@kevinmarks You have a text editing problem. You decide to use markdown. Now you don't know how many problems you have as everyone does lists differently. http://johnmacfarlane.net/babelmark2/?normalize=1&text=+8.+item+1%0A+9.+item+2%0A10.+item+2a (twitter.com/_/status/1036975704569729025)
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[tantek] So it makes sense to procrastinate on the Github profile link mention thing because they’ll fix it eventually. Better to work on other things instead.
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[tantek] Kevinmarks how often do you use lists in MD?
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aaronpk sure but the same problem applies when posse'ing to twitter, since you can't send HTML to twitter
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[tantek] This is why my autolinker defaults to twitter @-mentions
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aaronpk but what I can do now is type "@tantek" in a note, and it changes to "@t" when it sends to twitter
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aaronpk which is more relevant for people like sknebel whose twitter name I can never remember
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[tantek] That’s a better UI
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[tantek] Do you store the original user name you typed?
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aaronpk yeah, and the original is displayed on my site
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aaronpk it's only transformed for the POSSE step
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[tantek] Interesting. So not autocomplete like silos do
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aaronpk and now also "@tantek" is hyperlinked to tantek.com
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aaronpk autocomplete is the next step, it just requires coordination between quill and my site via micropub :)
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ludovicchabant Do you figure out the appropriate silo usernames by scraping the person’s website homepage? Or by entering manually?
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[tantek] That (storing/showing your own @-names on your site) sounds like what I’ve heard to referred to as “petnames”
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aaronpk yeah, I don't like the term "petnames" but that is how i've been thinking about this forever
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ludovicchabant And what do you do when you POSSE to a silo where the person doesn’t have an account, or you don’t know what it is?
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[tantek] no need to scrape, you can parse rel=me for that
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ludovicchabant Well parse yes, sorry :)
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aaronpk ludovicchabant: I don't have any automated entry for this right now, but that is something I want to do as well
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[tantek] I also don’t like the term petnames
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ludovicchabant Ok, because the thing I’m wondering is if you write @tantek then how can you automatically figure that you need to go parse tantek.com?
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[kevinmarks] it is s legitimate term for something you don't ever want to share
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aaronpk ludovicchabant: I have basically an address book in my site that lists people and their websites and their nicknames
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[tantek] But you do share it by displaying on your site
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aaronpk or my nicknames for them
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[tantek] Kevinmarks does “petnames” assume private use only?
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aaronpk all of my contacts have URLs on my site too, tho they don't get added to any feeds
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aaronpk https://aaronparecki.com/2018/07/21/6/
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[grantcodes] So you could give tantek a rude nickname if you are so inclined 😛
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aaronpk oh I made them private :)
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[tantek] 😂
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[tantek] Ludo, did you check /POSSE to see if there was anything about your 2nd q?
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[grantcodes] But more realistically it might be cool to have relations as alternate nicknames, eg. @mywife @mydad etc...
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[tantek] Grant, yes that’s the personal phone model I think
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[tantek] Or just “mom” or “dad”
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[grantcodes] yes, just whatever works for you 🙂
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[tantek] Ludo, re: “doesn’t have an account”
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sknebel aaronpk: old ones are still public? at least I got a webmention yesterday or so for my address book entry, which still works
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aaronpk oh maybe
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ludovicchabant [tantek]: I think Aaron answered my question now that I know his CMS has an address book. But I still think there’s some UX exploration to be done for this kind of thing, especially when you first mention someone
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aaronpk first mentions with no context are actually very rare
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[tantek] Agreed. No obv answer for when someone lacks an account on a system
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aaronpk usually I see someone repost something as the first time i'm seeing a new domain/username
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aaronpk also most of the time I don't need to type usernames at all when replying to things, because they get linked up with in-reply-to
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aaronpk like if you look at https://aaronparecki.com/replies there are almost no @-mentions there at all
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[tantek] I’ve done all these: use their given name, use their given + family name (short full name), use their personal domain (without protocol), use their profile URL from another service (again without protocol)
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Zegnat “given + family name” always catches me off guard. Some people here have done that in blog posts, and whenever they refer to me as “Martijn van der Ven” I feel it has gotten too formal :P
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[tantek] I’ve only had to do this when someone lacks a twitter profile
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[tantek] Which I guess is more people now than a few weeks ago
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aaronpk lol
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ludovicchabant Hehe
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[tantek] Though so far most of those folks already have their own personal domains so I’d likely just switch to referencing them that way
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[tantek] I’d say that’s a reasonable way to “quit” a silo btw. Delete all content, leave your account just as a forwarder / reference to your own domain
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[tantek] Maybe leave a pinned post in place with further explanation of why you left, etc
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[tantek] (Since 280 > 160 eg on Twitter tweet vs bio)
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[tantek] Zegnat for you I would likely use just Martijn or your domain
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[tantek] If I was citing / sharing an article you’d written then I may use your “full name” so that anyone reposting my post would propagate your full name which is higher fidelity across more contexts
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aaronpk which domain lol
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[tantek] The one with his massive h-card of course 😊
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Zegnat Sure, for citing and stuff full name makes sense. I meant just in the middle of a sentence.
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[tantek] Right, in middle of a sentence just a given name makes sense as it has the context of that sentence (and likely more)
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[tantek] Aside/past topic, I was looking for where I’d made a note of “translate @-name to URL” as a pluggable function for my autolinker but I couldn’t find it. I do think that that’s the right idea (eg better than passing in an array of nickname/URL pairs)
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[tantek] Worth adding to /autolink#Brainstorming (and thought I had but obviously it’s not there)
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[tantek] Likely a lot from today’s autolink discussion that could be added there
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Zegnat shakes fist at PHP resource type
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Zegnat Who came up with resources as a single type?! To who did this ever make sense? https://gist.github.com/Zegnat/e1d7ee427a7d6b04c724f4f65e49d28d
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Zegnat I’d love any of the PHP devs in here to tell me this can be done in a better way ...
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aaronpk [cleverdevil] shouldn't the prompt on https://www.indiepaper.io explain to log in with your microsub server URL instead of your website?
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sknebel lol,I think that's the third time in the past 7 days or so someone tells him that
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[tantek] What’s a php resource type? Never heard of it
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[tantek] I’m a beginner php dev at best, preferring to use a small subset :)
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Zegnat If you have ever opened a file with fopen(), the result of that function call is what PHP calls a resource
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[tantek] Yeah I have /Falcon code that opens files
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[tantek] then hands it to DOMDocument for parsing
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Zegnat Often resources are pointers to things outside of PHP itself. E.g. the resource created with fopen() is just a memory thing pointing to whatever you opened. Meaning you can handle really big files without PHP having to read the entire file into a string.
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Zegnat And you can write to it, appending to a file on your filesystem, without having to open and rewrite the entire file. Just nice stuff like that.
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Zegnat But the actual resource *type* can be a file opened with fopen(), but also a pointer to a MySQL server opened with mysql_connect().
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Zegnat So that’s where things get interesting.
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[tantek] backs away slowly
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Zegnat When you pass a thing to a function that wants a resource (true === is_resource($thing)), the function has no idea what you passed to it. Is it a file it can write to? (That’s what most will want!) Or is it a MySQL server connection that it can’t do anything with.
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Zegnat And figuring out exactly what resource was passed in is a huge pain.
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Zegnat Joys of trying to standardise interop between PHP frameworks, [tantek] ;) https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/php-fig/ThSxlGT8i14/okN-bhTUAwAJ
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boffosocko.com edited /Quitter (+755) "quiiter.no shutdown notice" (view diff)
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boffosocko.com edited /site-deaths (+661) "/* Upcoming */ Quitter.no" (view diff)
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[tantek] Zegnat, perhaps “resource” is a poor abstraction if it’s such a pain?
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Zegnat It is.
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[tantek] Autocomplete is different from autolink
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[kevinmarks] Note that Facebook autolinks plain names if they're in your friend list too (dynamically autocompleting as you type)
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[kevinmarks] It does both
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[kevinmarks] Same way Gmail/apple mail does - where the names become lozenges
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Zegnat I am a huge advocate for using the SplFileObject class instead of fopen() for files. It is a much more specific abstraction of files, can easily be typed checked against, and is even easier to use in some cases. (You can simply foreach loop on it to get all the lines of text!)
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Zegnat So if you ever need file handling apart from reading an entire file into a string, I recommend you check out https://secure.php.net/manual/en/class.splfileobject.php
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Zegnat Sadly, PHP projects consisting of code that has been copied around since PHP 3 mean lots of PHP devs do not realise abstractions like this are just part of the language :(
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Kongaloosh hey snarfed! do you mind if I ask you a question about bridgy-fedrated? I'm looking at my web-finger and it's saying my hub is bridgy-fed. Is that correct? that's not my actual hub, but it's what generated.
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Kongaloosh r
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snarfed hi Kongaloosh! on a call, can talk more later
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Kongaloosh thanks :)
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@ChrisAldrich ↩️ @derhess @memotv Reminds me that I need to circle back to this discussion: https://twitter.com/dwhly/status/1021764682963546112 https://boffosocko.com/2018/09/04/reply-to-florian-weil-on-annotations-and-webmention/ (twitter.com/_/status/1037039841668558848)
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[tantek] Except why use a silo for a conversation instead of “just” using the web?
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[tantek] Hey Kongaloosh! Good to see you here!
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Kongaloosh :) Hey tantek! It's good to be back.
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snarfed ok Kongaloosh. re bridgy fed, you were asking about your websub hub? you can have your site advertise any hub you want. bridgy fed doesn't actually care about it, you just need it for mastodon etc to federate with your site and show your posts inside mastodon. (which even then is difficult and unreliable. you can start learning more at https://github.com/tootsuite/mastodon/issues/1441#issuecomment-302969948 )
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Loqi [Gargron] >an Atom feed with activitystream data Just an Atom feed will do too, but it needs to contain a link to a Pubsubhubbub hub >webfinger support Yes. Link to Atom feed, link to profile, link to salmon, magic key >an XRD at .well-known/host-...
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Kongaloosh snarfed++
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Loqi snarfed has 65 karma in this channel over the last year (121 in all channels)
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Kongaloosh thanks snarfed!
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Kongaloosh I was confused about mastodon and whether or not it was me, or if it was just kind of flaky right now.
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[jgmac1106] If I try to remote follow someone from jgmac1106@jgregorymcverry.com it just redirects me to my homepage.....I end up just having to go to my mastodon.social accont
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snarfed Kongaloosh: bridgy fed is decent at propagating replies, likes, and reposts (boosts) back and forth. it doesn't help with propagating *posts* back and forth, which users also expect. that's kind of a critical UX flaw
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Kongaloosh that's the hub's responsibility, right?
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snarfed eh it's somewhat more than websub, it's also activitypub, and (sadly) implementation details
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snarfed more in https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy-fed/issues/18
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Loqi [snarfed] #18 figure out user and post discovery
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aaronpk I made some good progress on what could be turned into a service that handles delivering your posts
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snarfed ooh interesting
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aaronpk I haven't touched replies at all yet though haha
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snarfed [jgmac1106]: you mean trying to follow a mastodon user from your site, via bridgy fed? yeah it doesn't support that. PRs welcome! https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy-fed/issues
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aaronpk but I now have a simple service that can push stuff out via activitypub, and you can basically map your domain to it like bridgy fed
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Kongaloosh huh, interesting. yeah, that issue describes what I was doing. I was logging onto mastodon and searching for @kongaloosh.com@kongaloosh.com
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snarfed aaronpk: heh, nice that they're so complementary. too bad it'd probably be hard to unify the two UXes
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aaronpk none of this is a good UX haha
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snarfed heh true
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Kongaloosh I'm able to discover myself but end up with a wait for verification
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aaronpk but that's more a fault of mastodon/activitypub really wanting to be a full-stack thing rather than a building block
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[tantek] Snarfed would it be reasonable to consider supporting discovery at Bridgy fed instead?
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snarfed and worse it's no longer an itch for me at all since the one person i really wanted to follow is back to twitter now
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[tantek] Eg [tantek].com@fed.brid.gy
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snarfed [tantek]: maybe? sure! the key problem is ^ (my own motivation)
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snarfed PRs always welcome
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[tantek] That kind of discovery would avoid burdening everyone with erbfinger salmon xrds wellknown magic signature etc on their own site
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aaronpk true but then you don't own the identity
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[tantek] That’s how proxies often work
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aaronpk I managed to make mine work by adding two static files to your web server
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[tantek] It’s how UUCP email used to work for example with ! Instead of @ lol
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[tantek] Proxies don’t mean you don’t own the identity
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snarfed yeah, offloading the functionality to proxies while still preserving the identify ownership of the domain is the key value (and sometimes challenge)
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aaronpk anything @fed.brid.gy has the same problem the rest of the fediverse is seeing when an instance gets shut down
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snarfed aaronpk: agreed, bridgy fed usually boils down to two URL redirects. hopefully similar difficulty to two static files.
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[tantek] Also @ @ identities are ugly and not worth preserving long term any way
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snarfed bridgy fed doesn't use @fed.brid.gy identities. they're always @[yourdomain]
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[tantek] No one cares about ! X ! Y email addresses for example for quite some time
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snarfed (redirect/static file still requires gen 1 or 2, but meh)
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aaronpk I managed to trick the system by combining the webfinger and activitypub profile into a single file
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snarfed https://fed.brid.gy/#use
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[tantek] Basically bad UX like that *should* be treated as ephemeral and not worth preserving
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[jgmac1106] thx [snarfed] I don't really know how it all supposed to work...reading the getting started guide I am wondering if I still need to add the atom feed plugin...my atom feed looks good
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aaronpk so this file acts as both the webfinger response as well as the activitypub actor 😂 https://avocado.lol/.well-known/user.json
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Loqi AnAvocado
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Kongaloosh snarfed: do you think that it's not really worth the effort to try federating right now?
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[tantek] AnAvocado?!? Wat
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snarfed [jgmac1106]: honestly getting your site to truly federate with mastodon etc via bridgy fed is still difficult and unreliable. i'd probably recommend posse at this point unless you really care about the difference
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snarfed (and Kongaloosh)
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[tantek] I expect someone will eventually patch Mastodon to follow any Atom+Websub publisher
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[tantek] Just as Statusnet did many many years ago
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Kongaloosh Cool. On labour day I was noodling with it and trying to get hub communication and things going, but it seemes like I can't reliably get subscriptions to my feed *shrugs*
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[tantek] And on the other end, can Microsub servers follow Mastodon profiles?
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aaronpk that'd be a trick haha
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aaronpk activitypub isn't really set up to make that easy
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[tantek] Do we have anyone doing automatic POSSE to Mastodon? Or a summary of how to?
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[tantek] Eg /Mastodon#POSSE
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aaronpk since everything assumes you have *one* inbox, which is used for both getting mentions, accepting follow requests, and getting posts from people you follow
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[jgmac1106] I do it using WP plugins and through OStatus
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aaronpk but I could easily make my new proxy thing push posts into an aperture channel
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aaronpk actually it already basically does that for me
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snarfed [tantek]: yes. known plugin, https://www.arush.io/?p=94127 , maybe others
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[tantek] Probably worth it so others don’t have to struggle as much
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Loqi [Amanda] If this works correctly, I can now automatically syndicate to Twitter, Micro.blog, and Mastodon. Just need to work on convereting Mastodon replies, boosts and favorites to webmention replies, reposts, and likes. Facebook is the only off-limits platfo...
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snarfed https://indieweb.org/Mastodon#POSSE
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[tantek] [jgmac1106] can you add yourself and setup to ^^^?
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[tantek] snarfed++ thanks!
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Loqi snarfed has 66 karma in this channel over the last year (122 in all channels)
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[tantek] Is anyone who is POSSEing to Mastodon then also doing /backfeed back to their original posts?
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[jgmac1106] will do but I will defer to [pfefferle] on how oStatus, salmon, and the other plugins all work to POSSE... I really don't what happens with jgmac1106@jgregorymcverry.com I know I see the post since I follow myself and the account gets followers...but that is all I know
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[tantek] Aaronpk re: would be a trick - why? I though Mastodon profiles also had Atom+websub support
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[tantek] [jgmac1106] even a minimal description of your setup (which CMS + plug-ins + config you had to do ) would be helpful!
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aaronpk maybe? I don't know how much I would invest in building stuff on the atom side right now, since they are basically treating it as legacy support
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[tantek] Sure. I’ve been treating Atom as legacy support since the second time I launched support for it in 2010 😂
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[jgmac1106] I think something like indieweb.xyz could be spun up in a federated but decentralized Mastodon like environment,just hve different columns for different tags....heck one could technically just POSSE everything to this chat if you know all the Loqi triggers for different rooms
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Kongaloosh side note: I'm finding the documentation for most of the pubsubhubbub services are also pretty confusing.
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@jgmac1106 Like I know typing webmentions goes right to the dev channel. I don’t need a Mastodon like service. I think we can build decentralized approach where folks always own their content from their own domain (http://jgregorymcverry.com/6438-2/) (twitter.com/_/status/1037048400351514624)
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[tantek] Kongaloosh yes that’s been my experience too
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Kongaloosh like, it's very confusing to tell what the requests are supposed to be and what the responses should contain.
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[tantek] I believe that’s why Aaronpk wrote up a much better “how to use websub as a publisher” documentation in the wiki
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Kongaloosh so when things break, or just don't work from the start you don't exactly have many debug leads
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aaronpk here's my hub, I tried to make its own docs easy to understand https://switchboard.p3k.io/docs
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[tantek] On mobile so IDK the url
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aaronpk I also wrote this up as a more thorough guide https://indieweb.org/How_to_publish_and_consume_WebSub
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[tantek] That’s the one ☝
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Kongaloosh aaronpk: that's so much better than the superfeedr docs, oh man.
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Kongaloosh aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 105 karma in this channel over the last year (312 in all channels)
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jgregorymcverry.com edited /Mastodon (+516) "/* POSSE */ adding myself" (view diff)
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aaronpk thanks! I had the same problem at first!
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Kongaloosh I think I've actually narrowed it down to what's broken now. I made a little superfeedr subscriber which is able to subscribe to my hub: a bunch of mastodon instances are able to see my federation, but there seems to be something messed up in mastodon.
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Kongaloosh it's showing me as following @kongaloosh.com@kongaloosh.com, but that the profile also has zero followers and zero toots.
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aaronpk that's normal
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aaronpk it only shows followers and toots that it already knows about
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Kongaloosh ah, actually, I guess I have a question about formatting.
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Kongaloosh is rel="self" supposed to be a feed, or is discovery done for feeds on rel=self?
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Kongaloosh so if my hub.url is my site, will whatever's making the request look for, say, "application/atom+xml" to consume?
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Kongaloosh or will it make a request expecting the site to return an atom feed?
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[tantek] Pretty sure Websub works just fine with your HTML h-feed these days
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gRegorLove I have rel=self in my notes h-feed
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ludovicchabant [tantek]: FWIW I'm doing auto-POSSE to Mastodon, but no back-feeding or whatever
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[tantek] Ludo very cool! Which CMS + plug-ins if any?
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ludovicchabant I’m using a tool I made called SiloRider
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ludovicchabant https://ludovic.chabant.com/devblog/2018/07/30/announcing-silorider/
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Kongaloosh [tantek]: that's what I thought, but *should* and *are* seem to not overlap entirely :'D
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ludovicchabant It’s CMS agnostic since it’s just reading your published HTML and going from there
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Kongaloosh ludovicchabant: that's an excellent header image :P
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gregorlove.com edited /site-deaths (+756) "/* Upcoming */ +unixcorn mastodon" (view diff)
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ludovicchabant Thanks :) It’s very early though — it needs better auto formatting of posts (especially when handling links)
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ludovicchabant I’m adding support for POSSE’ing to Facebook and Instagram, and sending webmentions
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[grantcodes] ludovicchabant: If you figure out Facebook posse now that they killed the api you will be ahead of everyone else!
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[grantcodes] But looks awesome!
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[grantcodes] ludovicchabant++
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Loqi ludovicchabant has 1 karma over the last year
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Kongaloosh I have given up on caring about facebook posse.
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Kongaloosh mostly because there's been a pretty heavy diaspora to twitter it seems
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gregorlove.com edited /site-deaths (+329) "archive Bumpers" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /site-deaths (+18) "archive Storify" (view diff)
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kaushalmodi Hello all
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kaushalmodi I have a question about JF2 feed: https://www.w3.org/TR/jf2/#jf2feed_required_fields
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kaushalmodi I'd like an "updated" field at the very top level of the jf2feed.json that says when that feed was updated.
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kaushalmodi But the spec says "updated MAY be present on any entry object which is a direct child of the top level feed object. If present, this property MUST be a single string value and MUST be formatted as specified by [ISO8601]. "
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kaushalmodi >> "which is a direct child of the top level feed object"
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kaushalmodi so.. I cannot have "updated" in the top level object?
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kaushalmodi or, to put it other way, if I have an "updated" key in the top level object, will that invalidate the whole feed?
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gregorlove.com edited /site-deaths (+81) "archive Foodspotting" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Foodspotting (+197) "past tense, site-deaths" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /site-deaths (+495) "archive Yahoo Messenger, inline download chat history instructions" (view diff)
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[tantek] Gregorlove++ for wiki gardening!
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Loqi Gregorlove has 20 karma in this channel over the last year (102 in all channels)
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Zegnat kaushalmodi, interesting question. I don’t think it would invalidate the whole feed (in that few checkers will stop parsing because of an additional object member). But jf2 is an almost-straight mapping of mf2, and h-feed does not have an updated property either: http://microformats.org/wiki/h-feed
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Zegnat I wonder, what is the usecase? It feels like feed readers haven’t actually used such an item for a long time, simply opting to always check the individual feed items for changes.
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gregorlove.com edited /site-deaths (+797) "archive Wikispaces, inline why and phased shutdown dates" (view diff)
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kaushalmodi Zegnat: Use case is to check when a site got last updated.
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Zegnat HTTP Last-Modified header? That should also automatically make it work for browsers / proxies / caching services, who do not track random parts of the HTML.
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kaushalmodi This is probably specific to my site generator (that can fetch remote JSON objs)
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kaushalmodi See the "Last modified" col here: https://ox-hugo.scripter.co/doc/examples/
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kaushalmodi I fetch those using github/gitlab API (committed time)
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kaushalmodi For folks not using github/gitlab, I was wondering if there's a way to know the last update time using "some" JSON
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kaushalmodi I don't know how to parse a random URL's "HTTP Last-Modified header" in Hugo
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Zegnat is sadly leaving for bed.
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Zegnat I’ll think about it a bit more :)
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kaushalmodi No problem. Ping me if you have another way to do what I want.
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kaushalmodi I might just resort to suggesting a custom Hugo output format in JSON.
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kaushalmodi Folks interested in getting listed on that page (and not using github/gitlab) will simply need to auto-publish a little JSON on their site root containing the update time.
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[kevinmarks] You can follow mastodon profiles because they have h-feed markup
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[kevinmarks] Etag/last modified support is a good thing to build
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[kevinmarks] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Conditional_requests
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[kevinmarks] This is still the clearest explanation http://getpython3.com/diveintopython3/http-web-services.html
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@rubygems jekyll-webmention_io (2.9.7): This Gem includes a suite of tools for managing webmentions in Jekyll: * Tags *… https://rubygems.org/gems/jekyll-webmention_io (twitter.com/_/status/1037102698976477186)
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