#dev 2018-09-14

2018-09-14 UTC
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[eddie]
lol, I’d love to GWG but I have Java and everything about it 😕
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GWG
I meant on the planning at least
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[eddie]
No offense to those who like it, but it’s not something for me. I know Google has made a new programming language Kotlin? Which makes me somewhat curious
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[eddie]
ohhhh gotcha
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[eddie]
Yeah, that makes sense I can at least document everything we do on iOS 🙂
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GWG
If you address the backend stuff someone can work on the front end
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[eddie]
Makes sense :thumbsup:
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GWG
Eddie, what are your location goals?
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[eddie]
Essentially I want to have my trips and my checkins, and I don’t want to have to constantly think about it
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[eddie]
so I want something to track and detect my location and motion and be able to intelligently guess when I’ve stopped somehwhere and when I might have been traveling (walking, biking, etc)
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GWG
What might that look like?
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[eddie]
Then I want to be able to sit down and enter the real info after the fact
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GWG
So, the google activity tracking API type thing m
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[jgmac1106]
Google Location History...but they got a few extra resources
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[eddie]
Yeah, I think my biggest inspiration towards it was the iOS Moves app
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[eddie]
What is moves?
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Loqi
Moves is a location tracking app that was acquired by Facebook, and is shutting down at the end of July 2018 https://indieweb.org/Moves
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[eddie]
ohhh no screenshots
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[eddie]
Here’s a screenshot until I can get a proper one on the wiki
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[eddie]
So you have some app that detects transportation and visits, and then you need to be able to turn those transportation into Micropub Trip post after clarifying how you were transporting yourself and visits into Checkins after you clarify where you were and maybe add a photo
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[eddie]
Of course any of those things could be done in real time
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[eddie]
but I also want it as a timeline so you can do historical
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[eddie]
The key being that you can be in the moment and not worry about tracking until later
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GWG
Sounds good
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aaronpk
Moves got so many things right
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[keithjgrant]
Got my static site automatically sending webmentions! 🎉
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Loqi
[keithjgrant] github-to-webmention: Send webmentions for new posts on a static site
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@rubygems
jekyll-webmention_io (3.1.0): This Gem includes a suite of tools for managing webmentions in Jekyll: * Tags *… https://rubygems.org/gems/jekyll-webmention_io
(twitter.com/_/status/1040470992617984000)
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[Tom_Morris]
in ur wiki again, folks
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tommorris.org
edited /Hugo (+261) "adding theme listing"
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tantek.com
created /nyc (+22) "redirect link from the tito!"
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GWG
Trying to decide my goals for the weekend
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tantek.com
edited /Leaders (+6730) "flatten a bit, move [[Events]] issues and brainstorming to here instead of cluttering up the events page"
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boffosocko.com
edited /Indieweb_for_Education (+351) "#edu522 example"
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tantek.com
created /XOXO_2018 (+40) "r"
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loqi.me
created /Nürnberg_Web_Week (+39) "prompted by tantek___ and redirect added by tantek___"
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loqi.me
created /Nürnberg_Digital_Festival (+324) "prompted by tantek___ and dfn added by tantek___"
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kaja.sknebel.net
edited /Nürnberg_Digital_Festival (+2) "linkify ('… is <url>' pattern)"
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loqi.me
edited /Nürnberg_Digital_Festival (+38) "tantek___ added "[[2018/Nuremberg]]" to "See Also""
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tantek___
I really like the comments display on Charlie's posts, e.g. https://sonniesedge.co.uk/posts/abandon-twitter
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Loqi
It's time to say goodbye to Twitter
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gRegorLove
And the footer "© Some shit about copyright and year that isn't actually in any way relevant or legal, but is a classic "we've always done it like that" thing.
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tantek___
hah that's likely a geo difference. the classic (c) YEAR, All rights reserved. is from US copyright
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tantek___
whereas the author of those posts is in Berlin
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@jgmac1106
↩️ Well more than hypothesize, it’s a formative experiment. I expect and will encourage family members to throw up spaces for other family/friends on subdomains. Going to play but only report  webmentions in aggregate. (http://jgregorymcverry.com/6823-2/)
(twitter.com/_/status/1040674260358979584)
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Zegnat
It's not even legally relevant in the us, right? Copyright is assigned as soon as you produce the work. Next step is to go and register it formally, which also doesn't require the footer?
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keithjgrant.com
edited /static_site (+299) "/* Sending Webmentions */"
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tantek___
Zegnat IANAL, just remember hearing there is some difference in default copyright assignment upon work production, and the "All Rights Reserved" (supposedly reserves more rights?)
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[keithjgrant]
Every time I've looked into it, I've found a different answer
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[keithjgrant]
TLDR: US copyright law is too complicated
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gRegorLove
s/US copyright/copyright/
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jgmac1106
what do people skilled with html parsers think? could I develop a system to track specific elements, classes and properties use on a page? Even if done thorugh a CMS the page should change over time. Could I automate a system to parse specific pages at specific intervals?
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tantek___
this is an amazing HTML+CSS hack (perhaps not practical, but still, amazing proof of concept) http://www.mattzeunert.com/2017/10/30/javascript-free-todo-app.html
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@jgmac1106
What say you @toolness can it be done? Could I even automate a system where pages  from participants are parsed at set intervals? Could I use the frequencies to set a threshold that would trigger the publication of a webmention badge? (http://jgregorymcverry.com/6831-2/)
(twitter.com/_/status/1040680298428682241)
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jgmac1106
that is a cool to-do list…I just do mine manual
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Zegnat
jgmac1106: "skilled with html parsers", haha. Good one.
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Zegnat
But the answer is: probably not too hard. Depends on how big you expect the changes in the html structure to be between checks.
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jgmac1106
I have to come up with a way to measure does what I do change the digital literacy skills of participants over time
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gRegorLove
Should be easy with regex /s
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jgmac1106
I don’t want to develop or use an assessment, the pyschometrics on it make it quite expensive and quite multidemsional.
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jgmac1106
good to hear, I really think I could use this, and given enough funding (sample size) could look at the effect size in growth curve models as I tweak my interventions
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Zegnat
I can give you a better answer if I know exactly what you would check. But simple statistics over HTML elements or class-name usage shouldn’t be hard to extract at all
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dougbeal
Does anyone have a calendar subscrible event feed on their website?
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Zegnat
“subscrible” :D
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dougbeal
Or downloadable caledar event files?
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jgmac1106
Doug I use a paid plugin for clients
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dougbeal
subscribable, if you will ;)
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Zegnat
Jeena’s event posts come with ics links
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jgmac1106
they did express interest in adding mf2 to their events come to think about it
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Zegnat
If that’s what you mean
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dougbeal
jeena++ Nice events
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Loqi
jeena has 1 karma in this channel over the last year (2 in all channels)
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jgmac1106
Now could I set up telegraph to capture inbound webmentons of participants and store those somehow? or just simply set up additional feeds like you do with comments?
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Zegnat
Telegraph is sending only. Do you mean webmention.io?
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jgmac1106
okay yes webmention.io would work
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Zegnat
Receiving webmentions is easy. It is post-processing that requires further thought ;)
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gRegorLove
downloadable ics on event permalinks too
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dougbeal
gRegorLove++ nice
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Loqi
gRegorLove has 20 karma in this channel over the last year (104 in all channels)
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Loqi
[gRegorLove] mf2-to-iCalendar: Convert microformats h-event to iCalendar
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Zegnat
jgmac1106, also note, if participants are using webmention.io or webmention.heroku you can actually eavesdrop on the mentions they are receiving through the API.
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jgmac1106
no post process for privacy I only want to total and total uniques
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jgmac1106
don’t want to, my open research policy is to only report in aggregate without explicit consent
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jgmac1106
happy to collect and then delete
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Zegnat
AFAIK, there are no tools that will allow you to do that right now.
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jgmac1106
what is a graduate student?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "graduate student" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "graduate student is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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jgmac1106
I can find people to count for me
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Zegnat
Either people are receiving their mentions in private (WP plugin, mentions straight to their own DB), or on a public service with a fully public API (wm.io and wm.heroku)
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Zegnat
I don’t mean creating the aggregate is the problem, I mean the tools we have (that I know of) are either 100% private or 100% public ;)
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jgmac1106
ohhh I know the data is fully public…I just personally onluy report in aggregate and only make my opendata avaialble in aggregate
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Zegnat
Well that’s not a problem.
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Zegnat
A very simple script could create aggregates from public APIs, I would think
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jgmac1106
I will share my open research standards in meta
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jgmac1106
cool APIs way cheaper than graduate students
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Zegnat
But if someone is using a private WP with wm endpoint, you can’t access that, unless they give you access to their WP install.
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jgmac1106
I am okay with that as then I would subscribe to their comment feed
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Zegnat
That could work, yes.
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jgmac1106
if they decide to keep a comment private. that is their right
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jgmac1106
okay now I just scroll through my blog, four day logs of caht, and I can write my method section, thx all
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Zegnat
If people end up using any of the public webmention endpoints, feel free to ping me if you want me to have a look at the API
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jgmac1106
beauty of the default. I am running the training. I won’t force any system on users
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tantek___
dougbeal I do too (calendar subscribe feed) on my home page, but it only picks up the events in the footer box
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tantek___
"Subscribe to events" near the bottom of the page
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[manton]
Micropub question I've been meaning to ask for a while: for the form-encoded version of posting, is there a convention for providing an alt tag to a photo, e.g. something like mp-alt? I know the spec recommends using the JSON version for alt tags, but I'm concerned about switching posting to JSON from the Micro.blog iOS app just for this feature since it might break compatibility with some endpoints.
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Loqi
[manton]: stevestreza left you a message 1 week, 1 day ago: I've actually been thinking about building journaling apps on IndieWeb stuff :) Still getting my hands dirty with stuff like micropub and activitypub to figure out how best to start using it
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[manton]
Cool @stevestreza! I missed that message. Sounds great.
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Zegnat
I haven’t seen that done in formencoded, [manton], no
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tantek___
no reason it couldn't be right?
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Zegnat
I think the formencoded variant is supposed to be a single flat mf2 object. There is no “alt” property for h-entry. So you would end up with some proprietary mp-* property
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Zegnat
Of course if you are seeing a clear use-case adding such an extra property should be discussed, [manton]
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tantek___
zegnat, that's faulty logic. the formencoded variant supports e-content, namely HTML, which is a nested structure like "alt"
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Zegnat
No, it does not support nested object on content
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Zegnat
Only plain text
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tantek___
you are confusing nested object and a structure property value
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tantek___
the HTML value of an e-content property is NOT a nested object
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Zegnat
Any nested JSON object (not just mf2 object) is not supported in the formencoded version of micropub, AFAIK
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Zegnat
The alt example is mentioned by the spec as a specific reason for requiring to post JSON rather than form-encoded to the endpoint
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Zegnat
“Note that because the value of photo needs to be an object, we can't use form-encoded or multipart requests for this.”
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Zegnat
Same goes for the value of content. You can’t supply a plaintext and html version of content with form-encoded version of Micropub
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tantek___
JSON object vs mf2 object. different things
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sknebel
it needs a json object, thus it needs the json syntax
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tantek___
wonders if making alt work for images is worth hacking the form submission syntax
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sknebel
https://micropub.net/draft/#new-article-with-html-p-1 Posting a new article with HTML content: [...] Because content is an object, this request must be sent in JSON format.
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snarfed
[jgmac1106] re "track specific elements, classes and properties use on a page," https://indiemap.org/ is obviously one example of that. not over time (yet), but the way it does analytics, queryability, and vis is pretty comprehensive.
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Loqi
Indie Map is a public IndieWeb social graph and dataset. 2300 sites, 5.7M pages, 380GB HTML with microformats2. Social graph API and interac...
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snarfed
happy to discuss more if you want
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Zegnat
I was just looking if it also specified it for content, but sknebel beat me to it :D
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tantek___
for content it works to provide just one string
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Zegnat
mp-photo-alt could totally work as being the alt text associated with the photo property. Or something like it. Just needs to be documented if we have a use-case. And sounds like [manton] has the use-case :)
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Zegnat
Everything starting with mp-* should not be added to the h-entry as a property and should instead be seen as a command to the endpoint. In this case the command is just to associate the provided text with the photo.
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tantek___
I suppose that's better than hacking the "photo" param to be URL+" "+alt
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[eddie]
here one potential problem
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[eddie]
multiple photos
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[eddie]
If you include multiple photos in JSON syntax, the alt text is embedded so it applies to each individual photo. But if you just have a mp-photo-alt does it apply to photo 1, 2 or 3 in the array?
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Zegnat
you just have to provide an array on mp-photo-alt that matches, right?
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tantek___
[eddie]: presumably this use of mp-photo-alt is *only* for the form-encoded syntax
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Zegnat
Presumable if your client has a form for alt text on each photo, including a value (though it may be empty) for each seems fine?
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tantek___
as soon as you're sending JSON, send everything in the JSON
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[eddie]
Correct, I shouldn't have mentioned the JSON I think it just confused things 🙂 But my point is you can upload multiple photos in form-encoded syntax, correct?
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[eddie]
As an array of urls
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Zegnat
content=Beautiful%20sunset!&photo[]=http...&photo[]=http...&mp-photo-alt[]=Lakeview&mp-photo-alt[]=Trees
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Zegnat
Any reason that wouldn’t work?
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[eddie]
So you just make an array of mp-photo-alt and the indexes match up
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[eddie]
:thumbsup: solved
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Zegnat
Yeah, that’s my initial thought at least.
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[eddie]
Zegnat++
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Loqi
Zegnat has 58 karma in this channel over the last year (152 in all channels)
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tantek___
worth adding to micropub brainstorming page?
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Zegnat
It might get a little messy if you start to have multiple properties you need alt text for ... but at that point we should really urge the upgrade to posting JSON
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tantek___
hence why it's mp-photo-alt, and not just mp-alt
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tantek___
you could extend to mp-featured-alt for example
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sknebel
would be interesting how many people run formencoded only endpoints and are going to extend them with this without supporting json
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sknebel
guess that information is kind of difficult to collect
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sknebel
(although I guess a client could try and fall back on error?)
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Zegnat
I think a lot of people here are actually storing mf2 JSON (in some form) from their endpoint. So the first thing they do when recieving form-encoded is converting it to mf2. Which is a really straightforward process.
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sknebel
[manton]: is the motivation to never sent json from the app, or to get people to support this extension in their endpoints?
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tantek___
^^^ aaronpk that "overwrite" should likely go to meta since it's an overwrite of an upload that originally went to meta
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tantek.com
edited /Nürnberg_Digital_Festival (+62) "clarify IWC since 2016, while the festival is since 2012 and is week-long"
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Loqi
[Eugen] Okay I didn't mention what the "special attribute" was because I didn't want to alienate the non-dev audience, but I'm getting a lot of suggestions for complicated things, so yeah, I meant microformats rel="me", it's the simplest thing, why would you...
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Loqi
[dansup] Mastodon implementing rel=me? Wicked! Support landed in pixelfed just last week. #indieweb https://pixelfed.social/dansup
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[tantek]
What is rel-me
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Loqi
Using rel=me on a hyperlink indicates that its destination represents the same person or entity as the current page, which is a key building-block of web-sign-in and IndieAuth https://indieweb.org/rel-me
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Loqi
[Eugen] Okay I didn't mention what the "special attribute" was because I didn't want to alienate the non-dev audience, but I'm getting a lot of suggestions for complicated things, so yeah, I meant microformats rel="me", it's the simplest thing, why would you...
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Loqi
ok, I added "https://mastodon.social/@Gargron/100726489667811566" to the "See Also" section of /rel-me https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=51714&oldid=51328
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Loqi
[dansup] Mastodon implementing rel=me? Wicked! Support landed in pixelfed just last week. #indieweb https://pixelfed.social/dansup
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Loqi
ok, I added "https://mastodon.social/@dansup/100726520814958974" to the "See Also" section of /rel-me https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=51715&oldid=51714
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Loqi
[Eugen] @JonathanGerlach DNS doesn't work as well because not everyone knows how to edit DNS records. It's easy to put a rel="me" link in your tumblr bio, or drop in on your sharing hosting site, but it might not even be possible for you to edit your DNS rec...
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Loqi
[Eugen] @JonathanGerlach DNS doesn't work as well because not everyone knows how to edit DNS records. It's easy to put a rel="me" link in your tumblr bio, or drop in on your sharing hosting site, but it might not even be possible for you to edit your DNS rec...
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Loqi
ok, I added "https://mastodon.social/@Gargron/100726508288588883" to the "See Also" section of /rel-me https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=51717&oldid=51715
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dansup
:)
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tantek___
dansup++
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Loqi
dansup has 1 karma in this channel over the last year (5 in all channels)