#dev 2018-09-19

2018-09-19 UTC
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aaronpk re: https://chat.indieweb.org/2018-09-19/1537319105000700
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Loqi [tantek__] aaronpk interesting! question about 4.1.1.5 Temporary Redirect to a Different Domain then, how/why does the protocol get upgraded from http to https?
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tantek__ aaronpk: perhaps RelMeAuth could cite IndieAuth for redirect handling, since there's no reason to figure this out twice (and would be odd for them to be different)
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aaronpk "The URL http://username.example/ returns an HTTP 302 temporary redirect to https://example.com/username," <-- that's where the http->https redirect is
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aaronpk the final https URL is returned by the authorization servrer
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aaronpk for example if your website knows it's served as https on its own
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aaronpk e.g. a lot of web frameworks have a global setting to define the base URL including http or https
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aaronpk sorry, that first redirect to example.com is not relevant to this, I misread at first
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aaronpk this example in 4.1.1.5 is actually an example of two different mechanisms. 1) an authorization server at a different domain, and 2) the user's website knowing that it is served via https
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martymcgui.re edited /code-of-conduct-feedback (+2398) "/* Open Discussions */ writings on user-generated content, algorithms and bias, technological amplification" (view diff)
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[schmarty] ^^ hmm. edits to /code-of-conduct-* pages like the above probably belong in -meta.
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@jasongreen ↩️ It’s not particularly an education thing. It’s an ecosystem that uses micro formats and webmentions to help people keep all their own content on their own site while generating network effects like shared events. (twitter.com/_/status/1042315053444284416)
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[Niklas] Hello folks,
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[Niklas] I have my page so fit that I can liken, reposten and bookmark external pages. The stupid thing is that on my site I post something like “I reposted [URL]“. This solution is much less beautiful. I would like to have an preview of the site, like show the title, a description oder something like this. Anyone an idea how to make this?
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sknebel Hi [Niklas]!
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sknebel There's a bunch of ways to extract such info from pages (which is why it's a potentially endless topic)
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sknebel e.g. if it has microformats you can get a post title from those, there's OpenGraph tags that Twitter etc use for previews, you can use the <title> tag...
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sknebel aaronpk's xray is an example of a service/library that does some of those things: https://github.com/aaronpk/XRay
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Loqi [aaronpk] XRay: X-Ray returns structured data from any URL
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jeremycherfas It's weird. The canonical links in my Grav site are https://example.com:80/blog which means that people following links in, e.g., micro.blog never connect. Remove the s by hand and everything goes through fine with a redirect to https, as intended. Remove the :80 by hand and the same happens. Cannot work out where it is coming from.
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sknebel https://github.com/getgrav/grav/issues/1786 seems relevant
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Loqi [rallisf1] #1786 CloudFlare SSL and redirection on Apache+Nginx setup
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jeremycherfas Huh! I always forget that I even have cloudflare enabled. Thanks! I'll what's up with this.
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jeremycherfas I wonder why I need it, though, as I have let's encrypt from dreamhost.
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sknebel the bug isn't strictly cloudflare specific, I didn't even know you use it :D
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[kevinmarks] nice https://css-tricks.com/introducing-trashy-css/
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sknebel something similar to that for microformats would be neat
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@FormationXtof ↩️ trouver une solution avec Hugo et les nouveaux venus pour aider à implémenter https://indieauth.com/ Je serai ravi que les membres IndieWeb puissent se connecter ici avec leurs domaines. (2/2) (twitter.com/_/status/1042445671163355137)
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Zegnat Spending vHWC looking at the Mastodon API: the rel-prev points at newer posts, the rel-next points at older posts. Always tricky those names.
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calumryan.com edited /Brave (+47) "Link to browser author website" (view diff)
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tantek__ got another "link to native app" failure - this time for a strava.com link that the Strava iOS app claimed "Authorization failure: ..."
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tantek__ perhaps we should start documenting these somewhere
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tantek__ maybe on /app
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tantek__ what is app
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Loqi App likely refers to native app, typically a less functional version of a web site that is usually restricted to one or more proprietary platforms, but may also refer to the .app top level domain https://indieweb.org/app
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tantek__ If anyone has suggestions for "special treatment" for /Twitter to make their t.co'd rel=me links work (like looking for it in a specific element etc.), please speak up! https://mastodon.social/@Gargron/100749399047652462
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Loqi [Eugen] Link verification would work with Twitter profiles too since they have rel="me", but Twitter obfuscates links with t.co. I don't know how to deal with that, since resolving every href on the page to check for redirects doesn't seem viable.
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Zegnat When I did it for the rel-me verification browser plugin, I did just resolve the URLs... If you are just doing HEAD requests to check redirects the overhead isn't too big.
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Zegnat Also, you wouldn't be resolving every URL on a page. Only those with rel-me.
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calumryan.com edited /Brave (+158) "Expand on Brave overview" (view diff)
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tantek__ what is rel-me
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Loqi Using rel=me on a hyperlink indicates that its destination represents the same person or entity as the current page, which is a key building-block of web-sign-in and IndieAuth https://indieweb.org/rel-me
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tantek__ Zegnat can you add that as at least a brainstorming proposal for how to handle Twitter profile rel=me links? Maybe in a "Silo details" section just after https://indieweb.org/rel-me#Implementations ?
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KartikPrabhu also the "title" attribute on Twitter web UI has the full URL I think
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Zegnat When I get back to my machine, I'll see if I can document with cites to Kevin's and my extensions.
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gRegorLove Someone suggested that in the thread. Eugen was concerned about someone adding a bunch of rel-me links
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Zegnat KartikPrabhu, yeah, but I really dislike a one-website-only solution
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Zegnat gRegorLove, yeah. Not really any way around that I'm afraid :(
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KartikPrabhu Zegnat: yes of course. But if someone prefers scrapping over following redirects then <ahrug>
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gRegorLove A timeout or limit the number of rel-mes to check would work. There's other ways to DoS Mastodon already
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tantek__ KartikPrabhu: in general the preference is for things "that work", and preferably efficiently, so it's not helpful to dismiss methods purely from theory.
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tantek__ having a small handful of silo-specific compat strategies is practical and reasonable
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Zegnat Twitter is a pain in any case. We have reports of t.co not redirecting if you provide the wrong user agent...
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tantek__ precisely. Twitter requires special-casing regardless
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tantek__ what is t.co
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "t.co" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "t.co is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[kevinmarks] The intent pages still have good microformats
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[kevinmarks] Benward++
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Loqi Benward has 2 karma in this channel over the last year (3 in all channels)
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vanderven.se martijn edited /rel-me (+585) "/* Implementations */ List browser extensions and userscript" (view diff)
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@megarush1024 ↩️ Hi. Regarding your webmentions, can you explain what setup you're trying to use? WordPress, Known, (ETC), where you're trying to receive mentions from, (Twitter through Bridgy, for example)? Will try to help. (twitter.com/_/status/1042486205751934979)
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Zegnat Interesting, http://microformats.org/wiki/relmeauth-algorithms seems to suggest to me to follow 1 redirect when checking a URL for being reciprocal
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jacky I guess it makes sense
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jacky in the off chance it's a 302 from http to https
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jacky t.co is a closed URL redirecting service used by Twitter.
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jacky thought that would work
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Zegnat The question probably timed out, jacky
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jacky ah that makes sense
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@ohhelloana ↩️ Hi Amanda! That's very kind of you! Are you on the indieweb slack channel? I'm currently using jekyll and using the jekyll-webmention_io plugin - i'm pretty sure i'm the one doing something wrong here :) (twitter.com/_/status/1042487917552254976)
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ It looks like a Jekyll site. Here is a http://webmentions.io plugin https://github.com/aarongustafson/jekyll-webmention_io/ and more info here: https://indieweb.org/Jekyll or you can always stop by the dev channel for https://chat.indieweb.org (http://jgregorymcverry.com/7099-2/) (twitter.com/_/status/1042488019868168192)
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vanderven.se martijn edited /rel-me (+1234) "/* Silo Details */ Just documenting Twitter t.co and its problems." (view diff)
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Zegnat That should document the Twitter case, tantek__ ^^^
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Zegnat And includes example of the current HTML as returned by Twitter (when I checked my own profile page right now)
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Zegnat Not sure what the best place is to have the actual “Should we resolve every URL?” discussion.
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tantek__ Zegnat, perhaps we can work together to formalize the rel-me spec some more, and create a github issues repo for it to have such discussions
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doubleloop I've noticed that in Indigenous reader the content of my own notes are displaying twice. I think it's because I have e-content, p-summary, and p-name all having the same value (the full content of the note, something that I've inherited from forking the sempress theme a while back.)
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doubleloop However in Monocle it doesn't display the content twice. I guess they are interpreting the markup differently?
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doubleloop If I change it to remove the p-name and p-content, it displays correctly in both Indigenous and Monocle.
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Zegnat I am not sure how the summary should work there. (Why have summary?)
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Zegnat But readers should be deduping title and content, those matching happens a lot. PTD spec specifically mentions the dedupe on those
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doubleloop Oops - I meant if I remove p-name and p-summary
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Zegnat If you only remove p-summary?
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Zegnat tantek__, would love to get together and work on rel-me spec. Though not tonight, about to shut down
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doubleloop Not tried that yet - I'll give it a go now
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doubleloop Zegnat, yes displays correctly in both with p-summary removed. Would you suggest that's the change to make then - just get rid of the p-summary?
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Zegnat Yes, I would recommend dropping p-summary
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doubleloop Great, thanks Zegnat
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Zegnat In general readers use PTD, there posts are identified as notes (titless) when the name is a prefix of the content. So old behaviour of having p-name and e-content on the same element is supported (see last few steps of http://ptd.spec.indieweb.org/#algorithm)
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Zegnat You may want to drop the p-name if you know nothing depends on it and do not end up also removing it for actual titles on articles ...
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Zegnat s/titless/titleless/ - woops
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Zegnat With that explained, I am calling it a night. Cheers all
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kaushalmodi I was commenting on Zotero forum on why they don't recognize h-card to determine the author
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kaushalmodi https://forums.zotero.org/discussion/comment/316730
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kaushalmodi If someone wants to chime in ...
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tantek__ Zegnat++ rel-me impl / silo docs you added look good!
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Loqi Zegnat has 59 karma in this channel over the last year (152 in all channels)
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tantek__ kaushalmodi++ I reviewed your post and comments on https://forums.zotero.org/discussion/comment/316730 and everything looks correct! Thanks for reaching out and definitely feel free to speak up if you have any questions or suggestions for improvement. From that thread it looks you have a very good understanding already!
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tantek__ what is zotero
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "zotero" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "zotero is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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tantek__ reviews https://www.zotero.org/
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tantek__ !tell jgmac1106 are you familiar with Zotero? https://www.zotero.org/ sounds like an edu-related thing that you may know about. Do you think it is worth pursuing for more mf2 markup support? See https://forums.zotero.org/discussion/comment/316730 for context (if we could get webmention comments supported there for instance that would be very cool).
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek.com edited /sticker (+1076) "/* Swarm */ ways to earn stickers, ways you may use stickers, edit text a bit" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Swarm (+687) "add Why section with general, and my personal reasons with citation" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Foursquare (+8) "toc below logo" (view diff)
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[jgmac1106] [tantek] yes, first open class I taught used Zotero. I remember looking at it for microformats and not being able to find the code online
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Loqi [jgmac1106]: tantek__ left you a message 1 hour, 12 minutes ago: are you familiar with Zotero? https://www.zotero.org/ sounds like an edu-related thing that you may know about. Do you think it is worth pursuing for more mf2 markup support? See https://forums.zotero.org/discussion/comment/316730 for context (if we could get webmention comments supported there for instance that would be very cool).
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tantek__ [jgmac1106]: is it a tool that is useful for indieweb and worth documenting on the wiki?
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[jgmac1106] I will look. It is given that Mendeley is now owned by Springer, it's an academic bookmarking and citation tool. Good Firefox integration, has some social features. Need to search my blog remember devs not being to keen on mf2
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tantek__ what is Mendeley
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Mendeley" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Mendeley is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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tantek__ [jgmac1106]: the mf2 code & tools support (as well as adoption) has drastically improved every year for a while, might be worth re-asking
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[jgmac1106] Home from coaching soccer and getting kids to bed... If I got anything left I will try to get to this
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tantek great, thanks!