#dev 2018-10-04

2018-10-04 UTC
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[dougbeal] What is pot type
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "pot type" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "pot type is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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KartikPrabhu typo "post type"
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[dougbeal] Ah, it kept happening so I wasn't sure.
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[jgmac1106] yeah typing after soccer practice and in the middle of shower train, but wanted toget idea down while fresh
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[jgmac1106] how could this work for a building block logo: <a class="u-in-reply-to" href="https://indiweb.org"><img class="u-photo" src="https://indieweb.org/images/thumb/3/3c/webmention-logo.svg/320px-webmention-logo.svg.png"></a>
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[jgmac1106] except put in the correct link to the webmentions page
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[jgmac1106] and then if that was set up with a link to webmentions.io we could get a rough count of implementation
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[jgmac1106] yeah for atul and Jess for already having this simple tool
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[jgmac1106] https://github.com/jgmac1106/badgemaker-prototype
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Loqi [jgmac1106] badgemaker-prototype: Prototype for an SVG-based badge maker.
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[jgmac1106] yes but @chrisalrich and (I have no idea to mention you) Jacky what if the social reader as a micropub client published a following post everytime you added someone to your reader? If it was on the same database,like Aperture, though the polling sounds intense, could a site say hey "three people you followed read this"
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jacky wait oh you mean on a _shared_ instance?
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jacky oh then that definitely sounds more doable
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[jgmac1106] yes like Aperture, or even a syndication site
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jacky I keep referring to things in a single-tenant, single-user approach
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jacky gotcha gotcha
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jacky well, if it knows who's on there and your relationships with a set of those people then definitely
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[jgmac1106] would be nice but I don't know how that is possible unless all read post get syndicated to some kind of aggregator...but they out of single-tenant
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tantek__ Yes it worked! That post didn't make it to my Atom feed until 10 min later!!!
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[schmarty] tantek++ woohoo delays!
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Loqi tantek has 30 karma in this channel over the last year (94 in all channels)
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tantek__ such a simple change but such a nice feeling to know I have ~10min to edit (retract!) a blog post before it goes to the Atom feed to all the old-school feed readers that cache aggressively
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aaronpk hey some of the new school readers also cache aggressively ;-)
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tantek__ uh oh
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tantek__ Aperture doesn't support updates or deletes?
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aaronpk I believe it supports updates
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tantek__ what happens if I delete a post? do I have to leave a tombstone behind for it to delete it?
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tantek__ for Aperture to delete it
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aaronpk It doesn't fetch permalinks at all yet so if you remove it from the feed it will stick around in aperture.
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aaronpk Youd need to leave a tombstone in your feed for it to be deleted
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tantek__ oooh
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tantek__ I *think* I do that but I have to double check. I have a vague memory of implementing that at IWC Dusseldorf in the past
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tantek__ what is a tombstone
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Loqi tombstone is a replacement entry with null or marked data for a deleted entry https://indieweb.org/tombstone
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tantek__ I *do* do that, but only for h-feed - because there is no defined way to do tombstones in Atom!
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tantek__ aaronpk: if Aperture supports tombstones - can you add it here? https://indieweb.org/deleted#Reader_Examples
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aaronpk I don't think it does explicitly, but the empty or replaced content will look like an update
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aaronpk Also an important design aspect of tombstones vs an explicit delete action which may be completely ignored
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[jgmac1106] [chrisaldrich] back to your read post I think this is where a group property in an h-card could work as semi-public way. Could a reader then parse something like you NYT example with 1,000s of webmentions and only display those who were also in your specified group for the query?
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[jgmac1106] step one in the badgemaker is stripping away all namespace IDs and stuff packed into the 1.0 badging spec without touching the badge making parts, then rewriting the functions for the HTML....I really think we are going to be able to take the tools that are required for this massive badging spec and reduce it them to 55 lines of html and a tinybit of javascript
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@jgmac1106 @schmarty  think we may have missed biggest use case of integrating  micropub/webmention system with our @Glitch tools. Already syndicate issue/replies to GitHub using http://Brid.gy. Be able to do the same from a project and syndicate to blog… http://jgregorymcverry.com/7651-2/ (twitter.com/_/status/1047683778506907648)
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@jgmac1106 @schmarty  think we may have missed biggest use case of integrating  micropub/webmention system with our @Glitch tools. Already syndicate issue/replies to GitHub using http://Brid.gy. Be able to do the same from a project and syndicate to blog… http://jgregorymcverry.com/7651-2/ (twitter.com/_/status/1047683778506907648)
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[chrisaldrich] [jgmac1106] I'm not sure what you mean by a group property in an hcard
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Loqi [chrisaldrich]: jgmac1106 left you a message on 2018-09-02 at 1:34pm UTC: I am not sure if it happens to you as well but on this page: https://boffosocko.com/about/following/ it never totally loads because of a data transfer to ma.tt
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[kevinmarks] [tantek] there is https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6721 for deleting Atom entries
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ oops forgot when you change  project name in @glitch you break  links you share: https://github.com/jgmac1106/webmention-badges and https://github.com/jgmac1106/badgemaker-prototype funny to look back at the early 1.0 spec https://badgemakerapplication.glitch.me (http://jgregorymcverry.com/7655-2/) (twitter.com/_/status/1047792588684742656)
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@jgmac1106 @inn can you please add native webmention support to your core Largo wordpress themes? Places like @ctmirror use facebook plugins for comments. I shouldn’t have to give up personal data to engage in local themes. (http://jgregorymcverry.com/7664-2/) (twitter.com/_/status/1047817644508938241)
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@jgmac1106 @inn can you please add native webmention support to your core Largo wordpress themes? Places like @ctmirror use facebook plugins for comments. I shouldn’t have to give up personal data to engage in local themes. (http://jgregorymcverry.com/7664-2/ ) (twitter.com/_/status/1047817923220426753)
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@jgmac1106 @Lisa Lancor here isrepo for the badge project: https://github.com/jgmac1106/webmention-badges happy to get the #CompSci students at @scsu or any of the #nhv dev community involved. Maybe hackfest where we work on project and personal websites (http://jgregorymcverry.com/7669-2/) (twitter.com/_/status/1047820155575816192)
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[TimApple] So i'm going to put known on a VPS.. 2 questions.. which source should I use... https://www.marcus-povey.co.uk/known/ or https://github.com/idno/Known ? And also if there is a howto get it going somwhere that would be great also.
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[jgmac1106] 2018-10-01 build on @mapkyca's page
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[jgmac1106] though [benwerd] has promised a 1.0 official release soon he and @mapkyca been workign a lot lately
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[TimApple] Looks like server reqs are listed anywhere.. CPU, Ram, etc...
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[TimApple] aren't listed I mean
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Zegnat Hmm. That could be. I think it can run on basically any shared hosting package so doubtful you’ll be hitting any bottlenecks anywhere with that.
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[kevinmarks] !tell tantek there is https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6721 for deleting Atom entries
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Zegnat [kevinmarks], has any feed reader ever been known to implement that though?
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[kevinmarks] I don't know - could ask jasnell
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[kevinmarks] maybe some activity streams did
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[jgmac1106] -duh my image with the mf2 for au-reply-of would never work if people didn;;t add it to a page with an h-entry correct?
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[jgmac1106] [TimApple] yeah i am running mine on mySQL on a shared host
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[jgmac1106] @zegnat when you are free would love a second eye on how I am thinking about marking up my badges: https://github.com/jgmac1106/webmention-badges eventually want p-criteria and p-evidence but will wait until I have a teacher dashboard to consume this
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Loqi [jgmac1106] webmention-badges: Award, send, and receieve badges using webmentions
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Zegnat I’ll have a look later tonight, if that works for you :)
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[jgmac1106] thx, once I get those somewhere close I need to start on the javascript functions in the badge builder......just need to go through code with a chainsaw first to strip away Open Badges stuff
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[jgmac1106] I tried to capture the thinking on the indiemon gam use case but around the more common use case of a conference attendance badge with a check in badge but still think it would be a reply post type sent to the checkin or rsvp rather than anything new.
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[tantek] Interesting KevinMarks. Does anyone support (consuming) RFC 6721? Is there a test quite?
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[tantek] Test suite*
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Loqi [tantek]: [kevinmarks] left you a message 2 hours, 17 minutes ago: there is https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6721 for deleting Atom entries
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Loqi [tantek]: [kevinmarks] left you a message 2 hours, 17 minutes ago: there is https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6721 for deleting Atom entries
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@benlkeith ↩️ Hey Greg! Webmention functionality would be better implemented as a WordPress plugin that integrates with the site's comment provider, whether that's WP's native comments, Coral Project Talk, Disqus, Facebook, Jetpack comments, or something else. (twitter.com/_/status/1047886931357589504)
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@benlkeith ↩️ Every single concern that applies to trackback spam and pingback spam also applies to webmentions, so sites will need to moderate webmentions. And thus, like comments, whether or not to accept webmentions becomes an editorial decision at the per-site and per-post level. (twitter.com/_/status/1047887832457666560)
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@benlkeith ↩️ @jgmac1106 (Webmention is *really cool* though, and keeping personal data out of the walled gardens is a worthy project.) (twitter.com/_/status/1047888149341511682)
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Zegnat Ooh, that’s a really nice answer from a company :) Looking like someone was notified and then actually went and read up on Webmentions :D
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[kevinmarks] not sure - feedparser doesn't afaik.
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[kevinmarks] looking at possible ones - gData doesn;t seem to - they have a DELETE that actually deletes entries; Zend seems to output them https://api.drupal.org/api/drupal/vendor%21zendframework%21zend-feed%21src%21Writer%21Renderer%21Entry%21Atom%21Deleted.php/8.6.x
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[kevinmarks] looks like FHIR supports it https://www.hl7.org/FHIR/2013Jan/atom.htm and has a JSON equivalent: https://www.hl7.org/FHIR/2013Jan/json.htm
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[kevinmarks] used to support it
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[jgmac1106] not sure who the fediverse advocates and dev folks are in the community but Stefan Bohacek is trying to build fediverse bots that play with #indieweb sites
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Zegnat Sounds like a fun project
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[jgmac1106] https://github.com/fourtonfish/glitch-fediverse-bot/tree/master/routes
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[jgmac1106] he runs botwiki.org and a really huge Slack bot instance
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[jgmac1106] In truth my badge awarding and applying workflow should all be done by bot
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Zegnat is old school and just calls that automation ;)
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[jgmac1106] me reading classic sci-fi where a guy name Pham uses this "automation"
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[jgmac1106] I told him to ping you, off to graduate open house
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Zegnat I probably do not have a lot to say about fediverse bots, other people will know more about that. He can always come here and get the best of the hyve mind
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Zegnat s/hyve/hive/
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@jgmac1106 Webmentions plugin for implementation. I want to page @chrisaldrich for him to show you a paper he set up in Colorado with webmentions. Felt like such a better relationship with readers then the cesspool of facebook comments. (http://jgregorymcverry.com/7679-2/) (twitter.com/_/status/1047899669609832448)
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[tantek] deleted << The Atom deleted-entry element: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6721
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Loqi ok, I added "The Atom deleted-entry element: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6721" to the "See Also" section of /deleted https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=52505&oldid=52479
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@ChrisAldrich ↩️ @CTMirror @INN @INNnerds @benlkeith #WCPub The outlet you’re thinking of is @ColoradoBlvdNet, a local paper here in Pasadena, which does support webmentions including backfeed of interactions with Twitter using Bridgy. I’ve documented a piece [more...] https://boffosocko.com/2018/10/04/webmention-for-inn/ (twitter.com/_/status/1047922242749751296)
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "exact text of the error message" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "exact text of the error message is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[jgmac1106] resists temptation to play with that stub, failing to resist temptation, could be so much fun....
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@jgmac1106 @downes check out issuer: https://github.com/concentricsky/badgr-ui/tree/develop/src/app/issuer @ottonomy said  webmention wouldn’t be hard. Weekend hack. Remember webmentions dont require microformats but people parsing social feeds use them (http://jgregorymcverry.com/7689-2/) (twitter.com/_/status/1047946486347177987)
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GWG Tonight, maybe I'll finish the Post Kinds fixes. Or not
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tantek__ Which new API is doing username/pw?
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aaronpk ghost?
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tantek__ seriously?
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aaronpk according to what i just read in #indieweb
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tantek__ well if there's an actual citation, worth adding to /Ghost accordingly as an Issue
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tantek__ and then moving on to something more productive
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aaronpk wait what
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aaronpk ffs
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aaronpk someone did not read my blog post
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aaronpk https://api.ghost.org/docs/client-authentication "Ghost uses oAuth Client Authentication, as defined in RFC6749 2.3 such that public clients can authenticate with the Ghost JSON API."
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aaronpk "This allows clients which are not able to keep information confidential (such as an API token), to still authenticate with the API using a client_id and client_secret"
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aaronpk ...
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aaronpk ...
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aaronpk that sentence is a contradiction
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tantek__ hah
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aaronpk what the heck this is a mess
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aaronpk i can’t even bring myself to document all the problems this has
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tantek__ summary with citations and links to your blog post is enough
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aaronpk if i was prone to tweetstorm rants i would go on a rampage about this api
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tantek__ as one new /Ghost#Issue
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tantek__ no no no not worth doing posts about
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aaronpk no, i want them to actually fix it, i dont need to call them out that publicly
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tantek__ good to document it as an issue so we can point anyone else at it that makes the same mistake
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tantek__ and then tweet at them asking to fix it, and linking to the wiki issue accordingly
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aaronpk i want to understand how they read anything about oauth and then arrived at the conclusion that this was acceptable
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[manton] As I said in the other channel I haven't been following closely, but my understanding is that this API has not changed at all in at least a couple of years. When asked to support any kind of posting API standard, the lead developers haven't shown much interest. My guess is that it was an incomplete first attempt and has not been touched much since.
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aaronpk aside from standards, have they shown any interest in supporting third party app developers?
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[manton] Not that I've seen, except maybe for theme developers.
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aaronpk if they don’t care about supporting app developers then i could understand why they don’t care about supporting any standards for their API
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aaronpk (but for the record they also just got a lot of things wrong)
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[manton] Looks like they are revisiting it and deprecating the old stuff. https://github.com/TryGhost/Ghost/issues/9865
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Loqi [kevinansfield] #9865 API v2 - Authentication
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aaronpk oof still not OAuth and making up their own stuff instead
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[manton] Goes without saying that supporting Micropub would be a much better place to start.
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aaronpk apparently it does need saying
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[manton] I've discussed this with Daniel Jalkut before too, because he's heard from MarsEdit customers that it would be nice if Ghost was supported. If Ghost has a completely new API, of course that's a bunch of extra work to support.
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aaronpk well considering ghost is about to change their API, but Micropub has been around for years, it seems reasonable that MarsEdit could add Micropub support, and then leverage that to get Ghost to support Micropub because that’s what MarsEdit uses
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aaronpk i’ve also been around Micropub/IndieAuth/OAuth for so long that I kind of forgot how horrible things can get when you start making things up yourself
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aaronpk like really, the whole industry has been working on oauth for 10+ years to prevent the exact problems ghost is about to create for themselves with their new API