#dev 2018-10-08

2018-10-08 UTC
dougbeal|mb1, [jgmac1106] and [eddie] joined the channel
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[eddie] Hmmm strange. My homepage of my website broke. The rest is working which means something is wrong with one of my recent posts
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aaronpk heh
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aaronpk that's never happened to me ever before
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aaronpk <.<
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aaronpk >.>
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[eddie] Haha
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[eddie] The tricky thing is my website isn’t kicking out errors
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[eddie] So no idea which post
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[eddie] I’m just gonna have to open up each file and see if one looks funky
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[eddie] Hmm post #13 at 7:19pm ...empty file 🤦‍♂️
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[eddie] So now the question is what the heck was THAT supposed to be? Lol
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[eddie] I might never know. Haha oh well
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aaronpk whoops
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[eddie] Ohhh, it just hit me!
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[eddie] It was a listen post of a podcast
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[eddie] Haha
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[eddie] Oh wow. There must be something funky with my listen workflow. I just did it again and it broke again
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[eddie] Good thing it’s not that important
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[Rose] Does ownyourgram not send Instagram image URLs anymore?
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jacky AngeloGladding: I've been thinking about this re: storing photos
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jacky so I think I'm going to end up storing a cached copy for design purposes
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jacky because I don't want to rely on people to keep things up (we not running businesses just lil' ol sites)
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jacky it would be cool tho if there was a caching service _for_ stuff like that
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jacky like a federated "v-card/h-card" kinda thing
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jacky that you could fall back
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jacky How I have it set up right now for koype is (h-card p-photo -> site opengraph info -> site favicon -> gravatar -> generate one)
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AngeloGladding yeah you really should cache for your *own* private archives at least imo.. whether you render their data in one context or another will be a topic of future debate no doubt
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AngeloGladding i was building cnpy.live to be that directory
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AngeloGladding it felt invasive with only ~100 IndieWeb'ers
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AngeloGladding i suppose it could have been done differently
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AngeloGladding but i'm just moving the crawler code to canopy core
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AngeloGladding i'll be documenting it extensively at /crawler
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AngeloGladding what is koype?
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Loqi Koype is an upcoming software project that aims to provide a one-stop shop for those looking for a single-tenant Web service to uphold IndieWeb principles https://indieweb.org/Koype
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AngeloGladding ah ok
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AngeloGladding what is opengraph?
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Loqi The Open Graph protocol (OGP) is an open* standard developed and controlled by Facebook for expressing the primary subject of an HTML page in custom <meta> tags for the purpose of Facebook showing link previews; in practice only a couple are even sometimes necessary for that use-case, and you can use existing open standards instead https://indieweb.org/opengraph
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AngeloGladding jacky why do you describe your setup with arrows (->)?
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AngeloGladding i'm going to be reimplementing selenium while i begin writing a test suite
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AngeloGladding i intend to use it to script a series of "user stories" by spawning multiple canopy instances and multiple selenium browsers for Alice, Bob and Carol
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AngeloGladding eg. Alice upload a photo, edits his profile, makes a post, Bob replies to the post and Carol likes
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AngeloGladding what is swat0
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Loqi SWAT0 is an abbreviation for The Social Web Acid Test level 0, a user-feature interoperability test for social web functionality defined on 2010-07-18 at FSWS2010, and most recently demonstrated passing with IndieWeb examples live at IndieWebCamp 2015 https://indieweb.org/SWAT0
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jacky what is canopy
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Loqi Big-C Canopy is a decentralized social web and small-c canopy is a python package that implements IndieWeb technologies to this end https://indieweb.org/Canopy
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AngeloGladding i think it'd be really cool if there were multiple full-suite monoliths involved in a single automated test suite
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jacky that's a good idea thought why replace selenium?
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jacky oh like a implementation runner
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jacky that could make reports?
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AngeloGladding yeah
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AngeloGladding https://lahacker.net/screenshots/jacky.wtf
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jacky I think https://micropub.rocks/ is meant to do that
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AngeloGladding generate a walkthrough with actual in-browser visuals
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AngeloGladding a doctest of sorts
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AngeloGladding more UX/functional than micropub.rocks
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jacky AngeloGladding: oh i didn't see the first highlight
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jacky so I use arrows b/c it's a chain of fall backs
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jacky like I don't want to know where it comes from but it has to grab it from somewhere
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AngeloGladding ahh
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AngeloGladding that's worthy of documentation
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jacky yup! as soon as I iron out some pieces
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jacky I'm writing out entry storage right now
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jacky still debating if i want to do flat file or stuff into the db
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AngeloGladding hah oh man
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AngeloGladding i've oscilated a dozen times
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jacky flat file is very inticing
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jacky but backups would be annoying
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jacky so I think I might sit in the world of object storage
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[Rose] I'm a flat file fan
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AngeloGladding so i've settled upon a particular approach that's rather heavyweight
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[Rose] Possibly because I spend too much time wrangling databases day to day though
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AngeloGladding what is object storage?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "object storage" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "object storage is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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jacky [Rose]: lol so fair
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jacky Object storage is a storage mechanism that manages data as objects as opposed to files
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Loqi ok
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jacky I use https://minio.io for my personal server right now
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jacky to do backups of its pgsql db
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KartikPrabhu "objects opposed to files" is strange wording
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AngeloGladding so i like the idea of flat files for permanence but obviously they can't be queried intelligently
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jacky which is then sync'd weekly to tarsnap
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KartikPrabhu objects can be stored in files too
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jacky right but file assume hierarchy
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jacky objects can be flat and spread out
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KartikPrabhu doesn't know what that means
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jacky I also 100% copied that from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object_storage
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jacky lol
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AngeloGladding are you storing your posts as json?
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jacky nah I thought that but I'm leaning towards YAML or XML
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AngeloGladding ?!
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jacky still likes XPath lol
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AngeloGladding hah
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AngeloGladding ok
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jacky and yaml is what I'm familiar with coming from Jekyll
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jacky jekyll, ansible etc
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jacky KartikPrabhu: does that make more sense from the Wikipedia entry?
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KartikPrabhu not really. too much plumbing talk geared towards CS students
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jacky :/
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jacky tbh the only way I can lazily think of describing it
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AngeloGladding i'm mirroring my json flat files in a SQLite database and using the JSON1 extension https://www.sqlite.org/json1.html to query the JSON using SQL
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jacky would be having a room that's tided and sorted away (using drawers for folders)
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KartikPrabhu folder sounds like a file-system ;)
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jacky vs having a room where everything is _not_ hidden and laid out but you have some way to getting to anything you need in the same constant time
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jacky yeah file systems afaik always had folders
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jacky object storage doesn't _really_ have them
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jacky AngeloGladding: interesting, didn't know you could do that
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AngeloGladding yesterday Zegnat was delighted to learn that git can convert binary SQLite to the textual SQL equivalent before diffing
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AngeloGladding using a simple git hook
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jacky that's a gnarly trick!
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AngeloGladding and this JSON is actually searchable using SQLite's FTS (full text search)
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jacky welp it's late
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jacky o/ tomorrow y'all
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AngeloGladding g'night
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AngeloGladding to complete my thought -- the json flat files are stored in git so that versions can be accounted for
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AngeloGladding it's kind of complicated but kind of covers all the bases
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AngeloGladding permanence, simplicity, queryability, versioned, backupable
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AngeloGladding then there's a redis db for things like webmentions..
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AngeloGladding which syncs to a flat file periodically
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AngeloGladding lol i'll stop there
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AngeloGladding i will definitely have to docment it once finalized -- the absence of such discussion on the wiki had me walking in circles a bit
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[Rose] Hah, building my own micropub endpoint this weekend is actually helping me at work today. Thanks IndieAuth!
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[eddie] [Rose] regarding OwnYourGram, Instagram tends to change its url structure every once in awhile which was breaking peoples photos.
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[eddie] So if you have a media endpoint, OwnYourGram actually uploads the photo to your media endpoint. If there’s no media endpoint, I believe it still delivers Instagram URLs..
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[Rose] I intended to implement my own media endpoint later, but I wasn't getting the instagram URLs at all
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[Rose] I just copied my other one and hacked it a little to get it working as an intermediary service
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[eddie] How strange. Were you returning a media endpoint url from in the Micropub config?
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[eddie] If you hadn’t done anything to config a media endpoint, then that’s odd
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[Vincent] I’ve had a couple of odd instances in the past where OwnYourGram sent partial data. I never got to the bottom of the problem, and if it was my fault through a bug or something else. It was rectified each time by manually resending. Not seen it happen or had a problem for about a month now.
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[Rose] Well it's all good now. I just need to make sure I account for all of this in the new theme that I'm building. E.g. if photos are sent it's a photo post
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[eddie] Ahhh yeah.
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[eddie] What is PTD?
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Loqi Post Type Discovery specifies an algorithm for determining the type of a post by what properties it has and potentially what value(s) they have, which helps avoid the need for explicit post types that are being abandoned by modern post creation UIs https://indieweb.org/PTD
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[eddie] That’s helpful resource, [Rose] 👆
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[eddie] That’s how my theme decides what type of a post it is
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[Rose] I need to add it to the YAML header for Grav, at least for the theme I'm working with. But I suspect many people would like it
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[Rose] So this is perfect, thanks Eddie
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swentel oh grav, I've been wanting to test that out for a while now
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[Rose] I like it, it's easy to manipulate
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[Vincent] how does Grav store your webmentions data, JSON file?
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[Rose] It doesn't right now, I'm using a webmention thing made by Voxpelli. I want to switch to storing it locally in JSON though
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[Vincent] ah I see!
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[Vincent] I’m currently writing to a JSON file, but I’ve been concerned about long build times once it gets bigger over time. Been discussing some options with @netlify and they have some interesting solutions
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[Rose] (I also want to migrate my "microblog" off of my blog blog, so I need to download the webmentions for the old URLs at least)
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[Rose] I was thinking one JSON file per post
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[Rose] Or an sqlite DB
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[Vincent] that seems sensible as an approach
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[Rose] It's unlikely that the file would grow to be insanely large for one post, but even it did that wouldn't be too much of an issue
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[Vincent] I’m using Jekyll at the moment and it’s not great for caching content to reduce all of this. So it re-reads everything on each build.
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[Vincent] Considering moving once I’ve finished all my webmentions stuff
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[Rose] Grav has a folder per post anyway, so it made sense to me to make use of that
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[Rose] I've never worked with Ruby really, which made me a little cautious when looking at Jekyll. I picked Grav because I know PHP
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jeremycherfas Did you actually get it done and fully working [Rose] ?
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[Rose] Which part?
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[Rose] If you mean webmentions, that's tonight I hope. Though I don't think I'll necessarily use PerlKönig's plugin as a base
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jeremycherfas I meant the Micropub, to begin with.
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[Rose] Oh yes, that's ready to implement
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jeremycherfas Cool. I need to work on my templates for display, otherwise I'm ready too.
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[Rose] I want to rewrite the media endpoint next, ideally there will be config file, and this will set everything up: micropub endpoint, media endpoint, webmentions (incoming and outgoing)
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[Rose] However it won't be Grav plugins, at least not for a few months. Just files you put in the folder
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jeremycherfas The existing webmention plugin stores a single data file for received webmentions, IIRC, and has some clever stuff to expose just the entries for a particular page to that page. But because the data are not normalised I found it very difficult to make it look good, and that is why I gave up on it.
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[Rose] Maybe I can take it apart
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jeremycherfas I'm a long way from a plugin, but I do have a config file and modified dgold's Nanopub.
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[Rose] But there's going to have to be something _other_ than running this manually on the command line
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[Rose] Because while I could add a cronjob to do that, I don't think that's a good approach
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[Rose] I think a button in the admin GUI would be a good, user friendly, start
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jeremycherfas To go looking for webmentions?
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[Rose] To send them, receiving is... Well, I should read the plugin code at lunch
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jeremycherfas I'd like to check how aaronpk triggers Telegraph to send. That might doable more easily.
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jeremycherfas On first build of the page.
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[eddie] swentel: (transferred from #indieweb) yeah, for caching I’m going to be using a local db. iOS has one built in to the frameworks called CoreData. So I’m using that for my channels cache and eventually the posts cache
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[eddie] jeremycherfas: That’s how I send webmentions. I send a POST request to telegraph after I receive a post over Micropub
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swentel [eddie], yep, android has a built-in sqllite db, so handy. Note: for posts, you might want to be aware of https://github.com/swentel/indigenous-android/issues/123
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Loqi [argovaerts] #123 Items not loaded
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swentel although it shouldn't happen, you never know that _id might be empty
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[eddie] Ohhhhh that’s good to know. _id existed but was empty?
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jeremycherfas Eddie do you generate all your posts by Micropub?
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swentel [eddie], apparently newsblur stopped sending story_id in its API
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[eddie] jeremycherfas. Yes, all except my “watch” posts which are created via a command line app
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[eddie] swentel: that seems very strange. 🤔 doesn’t seem like an intentional thing
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jeremycherfas I think for me and [Rose] some posts would be created via the Grav back end, hence the need to think about sending webmentions.
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swentel that's what snarfed though too heh
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swentel s/though/thought
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[Rose] I never use the admin UI for creating posts, I write them on my iPad or iPhone and upload via SSH in Shortcuts. But I'm not normal 😉
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Zegnat “I want to tackle is still the html parsing” - swentel, there be dragons, what is it you need to parse HTML for?
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swentel Zegnat, I need to extract the images for the posts so I can make some sort of gallery viewing in the stream
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swentel Zegnat, the parsing actually goes fine
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swentel it's the java part now to create that gallery that's a though one to implement
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[eddie] Well your workflow could totally be converted to Micropub, [Rose]. But yeah, jeremycherfas that is challenging if you use the built in UI. You could always have a “post created” function that gets run both when a post is saved in the UI or a Micropub request is completed
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[eddie] That is, if Grav has the hooks for that
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Zegnat “the parsing actually goes fine” - famous words, hahaha, but maybe the Java HTML parser is up to scratch, can’t say I’ve used Java
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[Rose] It could be, but the endpoint is currently hard coded to post to /microblog. Which doesn't work
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Loqi Zegnat: lol
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swentel I'm guessing Grav will have events since it's symfony based
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[Rose] It does have events
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swentel Zegnat, well, I'm using jsoup, so I'm good there :)
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[Rose] The Git plugin is a good place to look at that actually because when it checks into Git or pulls from Git is also when you want to run the webmentions check
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swentel Zegnat, it's the rendering part where the dragons appear, need to subclass a couple of built-in default classes in android, always annoying :/
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[eddie] [Rose] oh yeah. I just mean in the future you have more flexibility where you can remove the hard-coded bit 🙂
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jeremycherfas I have switching to the gitsync version high on my list of things to do. It would remove an awful lot of steps, for me.
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[Rose] Well I'm moving the /microblog to me.rosemaryorchard..., which will help
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[eddie] Ohhh git hook makes sense too!
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Zegnat In my experience, there is always some HTML that should technically parse that will trip up a parser. Both PHP and Python microformats parsers have had issues filed because of that, swentel. That’s why HTML parsing is always a red flag to me. (And why some people prefer to abstract it away to the mf2 parsers and never touch HTML themselves.)
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swentel heh
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swentel yeah, I usually hate them as well
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swentel but in a way I'm almost there
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swentel when a post has multiple images, I extract them and use the first one to display as a main image
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[Rose] I would say "just use a regex", but...
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[Rose] > Some people, when confronted with a problem, think
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[Rose] > “I know, I'll use regular expressions.” Now they have two problems.
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swentel and I might keep it like that, and not display them inline in the post
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swentel just need to make sure to ignore spacer.gif lol
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[eddie] Hahaha
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swentel snarfed has those in his posts :)
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[eddie] [Rose]++
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Loqi [Rose] has 1 karma in this channel over the last year (4 in all channels)
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[eddie] Swentel: yeah also look out for Wordpress emoji images
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[Rose] (Source: http://regex.info/blog/2006-09-15/247)
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[Rose] Oh gosh, is WP still using images instead of emoji?
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swentel oh lol, right, never thought about that
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[eddie] Yep
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[Rose] Uh oh
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[eddie] Indigenous for iOS was pulling the first image as a display and then I would get huge super creepy smiles below people’s posts
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[Rose] Hahahaha
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[eddie] Haha pretty easy to hard-code an ignore for it. The url contains something like “core/emoji”
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[eddie] Or something like that
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[Rose] But still
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[Rose] They ought to be using emoji nowadays
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[eddie] Yeah, support is too wide for emoji now
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[eddie] It should just use the native stuff
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Zegnat Those emojis have been used to construct problems with photo post parsing. You can come up with theoretical note posts including an image emoji that would be identified as a photo.
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Zegnat Though thankfully that has only been a theoretical problem. In practice, those blog posts include enough other mf2 data to make sure it doesn’t create an implied photo post
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[Rose] !tell jeremycharfas I'm not sure the Grav plugin is a good place to start. He's not a PHP native (his words) so it's... interesting
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[jgmac1106] Does this seem to make sense as a badging workflow? https://mastodon.social/web/statuses/100854647448126593
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Loqi [Greg McVerry] @Downes I was talking to @zegnat (@martijnvdven) in  #IndieWeb dev channel. Easiest approach to webmention badges will be to use webmentions.io (on each activity page), have PHP form that generates HTML file and uses telegraph to send the mention.ht...
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Zegnat [jgmac1106], you mean that specific post or the entire idea in the thread?
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[jgmac1106] the entire thread, trying to think through the workflow if I had all the skills to make the magic happen
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[jgmac1106] I can manually do it, one badge html file at a time now, but not doable with 100s of people
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Zegnat I’ll have a read through after finishing lunch :)
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jgmac1106 thx, and if anyone is good with css grid trying to figure out how I messed up my h-card on this: https://glitch.com/edit/#!/jgmac1106homepage?path=index.html:67:0 it worked until I moved my <main> to the correct spot….part of my WordPress exit strategy finish page first
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jgmac1106 here is GitHub if you prefer to have contributions tracked: https://github.com/jgmac1106/homepage
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Loqi [jgmac1106] homepage: my domain, mu url, my MEs
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sknebel what's broken about it?
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jeremycherfas !tell [Rose] Yes, I know ... We had some fun times looking at it last year.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[Rose] Jeremy: My suggestion is that I write a new plugin
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[Rose] Or a new setup that works with Grav
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[Rose] Because unpicking that will require quite a chunk of time
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[kevinmarks] this is interesting - editing wikipedia to replace dead links with internet archive ones https://blog.archive.org/2018/10/01/more-than-9-million-broken-links-on-wikipedia-are-now-rescued/
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Zegnat Looking at the thread now, [jgmac1106]
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[jgmac1106] all theoretical, will record podcast later if I have time to explain thking, but I try to reserve M only for teaching duties on Mondays
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[jgmac1106] [stefan] would help with the bots that could trigger micropub, that would be cool. I wrote Slack bots last semester for badge applying by students and it was a super easy script
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Zegnat tries the drawing of flowcharts for [jgmac1106]’s idea
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[jgmac1106] i have flow chart every of idea, but broke my phone, in NYC, stole my son's Nexus 5x but I broke the camera on that year's ago
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[Rose] Find a scanner? 😛
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Zegnat I’ll scan mine :P Show of my terrible handwriting
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jeremycherfas [Rose]++ for taking on a webmentions plugin for Grav
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Loqi [Rose] has 2 karma in this channel over the last year (5 in all channels)
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[jgmac1106] ....think he needs to climb down from mole hill that rocking a phone naked is always best....will use son's tablet....and I did a crappy job...felt like I was planning too much not building enough
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[Rose] I'll see what I can do 😉
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[Rose] But I'm almost certainly going to use Telegraph
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jeremycherfas Makes total sense to me.
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jeremycherfas And X-ray?
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[Rose] What's X-ray?
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jeremycherfas What is x-ray?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "x-ray" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "x-ray is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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jeremycherfas What is Xray
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Loqi XRay is an open source API that returns structured data for a URL by parsing microformats and following other indieweb algorithms, and is part of the p3k suite of applications https://indieweb.org/XRay
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[jgmac1106] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkJbqfV0P18 here is my OG vision that is ALL the parts, the badging is just one part
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jeremycherfas [Rose] ^^^
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[Rose] Can we link X-ray to Xray?
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Zegnat Sure
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Zegnat X-ray is /XRay
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Loqi ok
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Zegnat ;)
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[Rose] Oh, that's easy
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[Rose] Thanks!
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Zegnat complaints loudly about things being in video format
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jeremycherfas just gets on with life instead.
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Zegnat Hahaha
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Loqi awesome
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[jgmac1106] okay will do next one with just img and audio, I need to redo it knowing what I know anyways
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[jgmac1106] so you use any prototyping apps on android?
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Zegnat Doesn’t matter much [jgmac1106]. It is nice and short.
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Zegnat Grabbing a quick download of the vid so I can go back and forth without having to reload youtube
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[jgmac1106] this was before my summer of microformats...thinking would change....may record, be interesting way to capture my learning
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[jgmac1106] I can go find my bot script...but why bot over automation....character count used to matter.....plus marketing...Jetsons./..sci-fi
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[jgmac1106] [stefan] really interested in thinking about bots as also micropub clients fo quick tasks
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[jgmac1106] like badge application
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[Rose] I wonder if a bot would work better than a push based system
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[jgmac1106] off to work, shifting gears to phonemic awareness....
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[jgmac1106] [Rose] for me its a scale problem, if I teach 4 classes with 25 students each and eight modules per class......need effective way to collect post. relying on students to tag fails 100% of the time, success rate was way higher when they used slack bot to apply
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[Rose] Ahh, yes
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[jgmac1106] For @downes the scale would be even more complex e-learning 3.0 will probably draw 1,000+ unique participants is my guess
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[jgmac1106] graduate students = OG bots until we figure things out
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[Rose] Hehe
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[Rose] What else are student assistants for? 😉
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Zegnat [jgmac1106], this would be how I imagine the MVP, as we talked about and described in your first post on the thread: https://i.imgur.com/MOPGYWj.jpg
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Zegnat Don’t mind the wobbly lines
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Zegnat I have a hard time keeping track of who posts to where in your final workflow ... is the instructor posting badges through micropub from their own site? Is there some sort of site-per-course model being applied?
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Zegnat ([jgmac1106] the video is using the word “micropub” wrong, but you already acknowledge that you are getting to “the edge of [your] knowledge” so I guess that is fine.)
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Zegnat Micropub are not the lines into the reader. Micropub would describe the lines going from the reader / omnibear-like-tool out to the students’ own sites.
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Zegnat Just leaving that here as commentary while watching the video. If you’ve since gotten better grip of the jargon, just skip, haha :D
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Zegnat Flow chart is very interesting. I think one thing that is important to work into it is that a webmention is always from one URL to another URL. You can’t just click a button (you mention thumbs up and down) to then send a webmention. Clicking that button will have to create some sort of page with an accessible URL, it can then send a webmention from that URL to (in your case) the student.
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Zegnat Of course that step could be made invisible to the end-user. They may never see that a page was created on their behalf. But to get a clear idea of what is neccessary to make it work it shouldn’t be left out imo
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[jgmac1106] @zegnat...and yes the video was filmed in May...I knew way less then I do now, though still not much
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[jgmac1106] but yeah you pretty much summed it up, should be an easy workflow...if I have time I will re-do how I think the entire #indieweb LMS ecosystem could work, especially now that the course and syllabus template is done(ish).
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[jgmac1106] I have the assessment system done with https://app.reviewtalentfeedback.com though I can't convince Ambesh to open source it yet....he is A little embarrased by the legacy code as we were starting off and B...currently employed and doesn't want folks knowing all his side gigs.....
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[jgmac1106] hoping to get a small grant from the state to redo our user creation, role provisioning, and authentication...which will fix a ton...off to prep for class. thx @zegnat for diagram
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Zegnat Let me know if you think that simplest flow would work for your classes, as a minimum viable product
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[jgmac1106] it would...would get me all I need from here: https://github.com/jgmac1106/webmention-badges/blob/master/examplebadge.html
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Zegnat Is that the HTML you expect for a badge page?
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[jgmac1106] yes, I tried to build the php form in that php branc.h...but you know how that went
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[jgmac1106] but I am also open to feedback if that is a badge choice of markup. currently using e-content the criteria for what I would eventually want as p=criteria
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Zegnat I am not sure I would use e-content. As that is the main content of the item. And I am not sure the main content of the badge is the criteria of the badge ...
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[jgmac1106] yeah...that was the only way I could get the comment to display on wordpress blogs the way I wanted only reason I did it that way
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Zegnat I might create a quick demo form for creating a badge and sending the webmention ... no promises though
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sknebel does WP use summary if available?
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sknebel summary for the feedback and content for everything *could* work
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[jgmac1106] the main content of a badge is the link to the students post with with evidence, and the link to the criteria, with hopefully a description of criteria...one day will propose u-evidence and "u-criteria p-summary" as i will build a teacher dashboard that will consume these
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[jgmac1106] I think so @sknebel will experiment tomorrow,
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sknebel but the details aren't that important, that's easily tweaked once something is running
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[kevinmarks] If you put e-content on the badge as you want it to appear, you should be able to have p-criteria inside the e-content too.
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tantek__ what is caching
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "caching" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "caching is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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Zegnat Not sure anyone shared this yet, but seems somewhat interesting: https://medium.com/@shevski/how-solid-is-tims-plan-to-redecentralize-the-web-b163ba78e835
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Zegnat via: https://cubicgarden.com/2018/10/08/personal-data-stores-are-the-new-grey/
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tantek__ bingo: "I want to see user research that identifies real problems users have with the current status quo which Solid will solve well enough to overcome switching cost and inertia."
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tantek__ now we just need to get Irina blogging on her own site :)
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tantek__ Zegnat, feel free to add those to /Solid
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GWG Hi, snarfed
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snarfed hey GWG!
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GWG I was thinking of you in regard to finally getting Micropub out
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snarfed GWG: sounds great!
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[jgmac1106] the verified claims is a strange group...99% of interactions on the web just me clicking around, don't need a verified assertion for that
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tantek__ [jgmac1106]: yeah that's a good summary :)
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tantek__ my website (posts, blog etc.) will soon have existed before and after Google+
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tantek__ "The consumer version of Google+ currently has low usage and engagement: 90 percent of Google+ user sessions are less than five seconds."
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tantek__ I'm confused, G+ pages consistently took more than five seconds to load
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tantek__ so how are they counting those as sesssions?
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tantek__ or is it 5 seconds *after* a page has loaded?
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[schmarty] i was thinking it as just long enough for the user to realize they had opened a G+ page and close the tab.
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aaronpk looollllll
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jeremycherfas schmarty++ for irc improv
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Loqi schmarty has 15 karma in this channel over the last year (73 in all channels)
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[eddie] 😆
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[eddie] I think you are right schmarty because I’ve done that before!
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[kevinmarks] https://plus.google.com/+FumiYamazaki/posts/PxchxKjgTur
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tantek__ schmarty how do we report indiewebring websites that seemingly break the ring?
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tantek__ (feels dev like)
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[schmarty] tantek: I’m too nice and letting ringbreakers stand for now, because the ring is randomized and a break is easy to recover from. Next update I want to do is to make the link check a webmention.
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tantek__ cool
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tantek__ do they get put on probabtion? 😂
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[schmarty] Maybe! I could put them in a probationary iframe. 😂
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[jgmac1106] just do it by their emojis, no links, semiprivate hazing
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[jgmac1106] wow that sounds like a really bad phrase please forget I ever typed it
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jgmac1106 I think I did this wrong bc the p-name in the span would then include the u-url for twitter: I just added <a class="u-follow-of p-name" href="https://www.stillbreathing.co.uk/">Still Breathing</a> by <span class="h-card p-name"> Chris Taylor <a class="u-url" href="https://twitter.com/mrwiblog/">@mrwiblog</a> </span> to the #IndieWeb section of my following page at <a
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jgmac1106 href="https://jgregorymcverry.com/following">https://jgregorymcverry.com/following </a> . I used to just use twitter as h-card p-name but that feels wrong
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jgmac1106 how would other people write that post?
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tantek jgmac1106: in short, too much markup
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tantek I feel like some of these patterns are things that we could document / or code into indiewebify.me as things to warn against
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KartikPrabhu also not on the site yet and hard to read markup on IRC
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tantek e.g. "h-card p-name" is almost always going to be wrong
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tantek and frankly, overdoing it
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tantek I believe Zegnat already noted this last time you brought this up jgmac1106
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jgmac1106 here is link…yeah I was trying to do that from memory, I run into two blog types, one where the url and person share same name, and one where the blog is a title