#dev 2018-11-01

2018-11-01 UTC
eli_oat, KartikPrabhu, [wiobyrne], jeremycherfas, [jgmac1106], renem and [tantek] joined the channel
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@MozDevNet IndieAuth is a decentralized login protocol that enables users of your software to log in to other apps. Read more about how Dweb is changing auth: https://hacks.mozilla.org/2018/10/dweb-identity-for-the-decentralized-web-with-indieauth/ (twitter.com/_/status/1057875385541685248)
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jeremycherfas https://stream.jeremycherfas.net/2018/tried-to-like-this-post-but-neither
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Loqi [Jeremy Cherfas] Tried to Like this post, but neither Quill nor Omnibear seem able to do so. I wonder whether that is because there is a hashtag in the title? This post may help me find out.
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aaronpk what error did you get from quill?
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jeremycherfas Something went wrong!
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jeremycherfas Your Micropub endpoint indicated that something went wrong creating the post.
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jeremycherfas Not very helpful, but then, that's Known.
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aaronpk ah k yeah
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jeremycherfas Omnibear's error 2was the same, of course. And to be honest, I'm in catching up mode so rather than open Omnibear's debugger, I just thought maybe it was the hashtag in the title and did a little experiment.
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petermolnar wth. "We found a potential security vulnerability in one of your dependencies." - github on my repositories o.O
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aaronpk they've been doing that for a while. https://help.github.com/articles/about-security-alerts-for-vulnerable-dependencies/
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[jgmac1106] [jeremycherfas] might be similar to my error. One sec
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aaronpk deathrow1: here's selfauth (PHP) https://github.com/Inklings-io/selfauth
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Loqi [Inklings-io] selfauth: self-hosted auth_endpoint using simple login mechanism
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[jgmac1106] Nope just a syndication error. I can still publsh
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aaronpk and the wiki page for it https://indieweb.org/selfauth
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[jgmac1106] [aaronpk] if I am using static pages on my domain can I follow that to still indielogin?
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aaronpk you need some server-side code for that to work, but that code doesn't have to be on your same domain.
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[jgmac1106] Okay, thx. Not sure if it is something I will do this weekend... But will need to do soon
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aaronpk deathrow1: and the node.js one for reference https://glitch.com/~befitting-price
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sknebel now that PHP versions have progressed further, selfauth really should be updated to use slightly more saner crypto
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aaronpk I forget what selfauth's policy is on supported php versions
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[schmarty] hopes befitting-price doesn't get cloned too many times as-is.
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[schmarty] i think it needs to be ported again
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sknebel aaronpk: not entirely fix, but we tried to cover as much as possible. I wouldn't go 7.x yet, but "no older than 5.4 or 5.6" is probably an acceptable level by now
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aaronpk oh I agree completely, i'd even personally go back no farther than 5.6, but that's kind of a personal preference of whoever is writing the software
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sknebel right, and there we have a bunch of stuff available we currently don't use
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jgmac1106 can someone check does he have two h-cards in his side widget? I see h-card nested at top and with p-name
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jgmac1106 https://learningwithmoocs.com/
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@jgmac1106 I need to try gRSShopper I am currently using a microsub reader (can subscribe to atom/json/rss) hosted on Aperture and then using the Indigenous app on Android. I will record a quick demo later. It is super cool. #el30 (http://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/1s3Wta) (twitter.com/_/status/1057977224736006144)
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[tonz] [jgmac1106] I see 1 h-card in the side bar, and there’s a second h-card underneath the posting. However that 2nd h-card als had a u-uid. So there are 2 claiming to be authorative.
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[tonz] He uses Sempress theme, I do too, and I decided to remove the uid / h-card references from the author byline as parsers saw 16 authorative h-cards on my front page. I changed that in the Sempress functions.php file in sempress_posted_on (created a child theme to do that)
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[eddie] I don’t really enjoy maintaining database but MAN do I love querying them!
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[eddie] I feel like I’ve just learned how to program all over again using a dynamic JavaScript backend with posts queryable in my SQLite cache after trying to figure out how to stretch Jekyll and static files into some type of abomination to what it was designed for the last 2 years
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[eddie] I do enjoy it just being a cache though, because I don’t have to stress that much about the database design
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[eddie] Because I have a “rebuild cache” command that will literally just drop all the tables and rebuild everything in less than 60 seconds
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[eddie] It’s also nice because I can add “convenience” data in the database since it’s disposable. So I have a post_type field that is just a string field but it allows me to super easily grab all the posts of a specific type
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[eddie] it uses post-type discovery on a post whenever it is updated so that field always stays accurate, even if I change properties of a post and it’s type changes
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[Vincent] wow nice!
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[Vincent] I’m trying to decide if I ditch Jekyll and move to eleventy. Jekyll is not built for speed and my Webmentions server is Node. So I would rather work in 1 language than 2 if I can
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[eddie] Yeah, it’s tough because Jekyll is nice for static things and for simple small sites but as soon as you start wanting to filter or collect your posts in anyway, I found my jekyll really started getting bogged down.
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petermolnar "Jekyll is not build for speed" - no, it builds speed ;)
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petermolnar but I'm aware of the reuild-everything approach of jekyll
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[kevinmarks] Try Hugo?
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[jgmac1106] [tonz] can you let [pfefferle] know how you did that in the WordPress channel or just do a PR?
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[eddie] hahaha I forgot when I was first testing my cache I was just using 2018 data to be safe. I just had it cache all my posts in the sqlite db now! It went from like 200kb to 2.5mb lol
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Loqi rofl
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[jgmac1106] [tonz], I will also test using SemPress without the h-card plugin...maybe it comes with a native u-uid h-card embedded in post and the h-card widget injects another
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[eddie] [cleverdevil] *sigh* Another Apple Rejection
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[eddie] They don’t like how I am offloading IndieAuth to the indiepaper.io website. I have to port my IndieAuth library code from Indigenous to Indiepaper
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[eddie] Which is something I wanted to do anyway, just didn’t want it to hold up the iOS app
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sknebel that's at least actionable feedback
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[eddie] It is definitely progress lol slow, but progress
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[cleverdevil] Gah!
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[cleverdevil] No fun.
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[cleverdevil] Thanks for handling this [eddie] 🙂
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[cleverdevil] Let me know if/how I can help.
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[eddie] lol my pleasure! Thankfully moving the IndieAuth code from Indigenous into a library is something I’ve been needing to do for awhile
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[eddie] and it’ll benefit the community as a whole so at least something good comes out of this rejection
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jacky heard moving code from Indigenous to a library
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[eddie] ioS
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jacky remembers that [eddie] is talking iOS and :sobs:
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[eddie] iOS *
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jacky lol
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[eddie] haha 🙂
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[manton] [eddie] Does the new iOS app work with Micro.blog's Indiepaper support, by the way? If you haven't tested it, I'd love to try a TestFlight build.
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[cleverdevil] It should work just fine, [manton].
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[cleverdevil] But, it would be good to test to be sure.
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[manton] Cool. Happy to help test if you need it. (Also, sorry to hear about the rejections... App Store review can be a very frustrating process sometimes.)
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aaronpk Wow I'm surprised they care about doing auth that way
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[manton] I don't know the details, but I think opening a web browser to do anything gets extra attention, to make sure you aren't linking to accept payment outside the store, etc.
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[manton] If possible, I recommend adding a special account for Apple to auth with and provide instructions in the review notes to make it easy for them. That's what we do for Micro.blog.
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aaronpk Oh yeah
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[cleverdevil] All that work implementing IndieAuth on the indiepaper.io website for naught!
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[cleverdevil] 😄
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[eddie] Haha yeah, [manton] nailed it. They want me to use the in app browser to do the authentication, not open safari. But then the cookies are limited to the domain you request cookie support for, which means you have to know the user’s domain in advance, which then means you have to detect the authorization endpoint in the app
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[eddie] Yeah, I have a test micropub endpoint that is essentially a Micropub blackhole 🙂 You enter the url and it authenticates through indieauth and asks for a password that I provide Apple, and then it provides a test Microsub and Micropub endpoint. The Microsub endpoint follows a couple rss feeds and the Micropub endpoint just returns 200 to all micropub requests haha
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[eddie] [manton] The Apple rejections are actually at the TestFlight level, but I can either add you as an internal tester on the app if you are interested in testing Micro.blog sooner rather than later, or just let you know once I fix their concerns and re-submit
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[cleverdevil] Its all up on GitHub, too, and pretty easy to build 🙂
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[eddie] That too! lol
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[manton] Oh cool, I'll just build it then.
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[cleverdevil] http://github.com/cleverdevil/Indiepaper-macOS
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[cleverdevil] (In hindsight, should have named the repo Indiepaper-Apple)
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[cleverdevil] 😉
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[cleverdevil] Hmm... was thinking the other day that it might be fun to create a global Indieweb nicknames database service.
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[cleverdevil] IndieAuth with it, and then you can register your identities across platforms.
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[cleverdevil] Offer a nice searchable web UI and a minimal API.
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[cleverdevil] Is this a good idea? Bad idea?
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snarfed [cleverdevil]: my first instinct is, i'd like to see a survey of all of the silo APIs that let you search for users by web site/domain
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snarfed if it's enough of them, don't bother with storing anything yourself, just fan out requests to those APIs
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[cleverdevil] Ah, instead of making a registry, just have a service that can go out and query all around instead.
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[cleverdevil] Thing is: I'd like to be able to search backwards, too.
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snarfed ?
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[cleverdevil] From Twitter to domain, for example.
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snarfed that's easier, just a profile lookup
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[cleverdevil] But, that'd work too, actually.
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[cleverdevil] Hmm.
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[cleverdevil] Good point.
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snarfed (if you store your own copy of all of this data, you then have to try to keep it in sync with all of the silos, which is a horrible tar pit)
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[cleverdevil] Indeed.
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snarfed alternatively for domain => silo, just fetch the domain and look at rel-mes
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[cleverdevil] I wonder if I could just have it be that you always put in a domain.
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[cleverdevil] And it gives you the proper mappings for all of the rel-me links.
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[cleverdevil] (Including rewriting your post for syndication).
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snarfed at which point it's arguably just a little sugar on top of an mf2 parser
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[cleverdevil] That's precisely what it would be.
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snarfed ah, the rewriting, sure, that kind of wants CMS integration
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[cleverdevil] My goal would just to be to make that easier.
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snarfed but that gets very CMS specific. hard to do as a service. memories of https://snarfed.org/2015-11-29_keep-bridgy-publish-dumb
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[cleverdevil] Simply have the CMS send the content up to a service, and then get back a JSON structure for syndication to everywhere.
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[cleverdevil] Then, the CMS can decide what to do with it.
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[cleverdevil] Still, this seems increasingly like it may just belong in the CMS itself./
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snarfed maybe! hard to outsource CMS features to services and keep UX decent though
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[cleverdevil] Not a service...
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snarfed yup
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[cleverdevil] I guess I may just be avoiding writing PHP so I can get this in Known, haha.
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sknebel write a language that compiles to PHP, then write it in that language :P
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[cleverdevil] I have visions of writing something like "@{snarfed.org} Hello, there." and then having Known magically do the right thing for Twitter, Micro.blog, and microformats.
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Loqi [cleverdevil] has 39 karma in this channel over the last year (74 in all channels)
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gRegorLove_ sknebel++ lol
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Loqi sknebel has 25 karma in this channel over the last year (77 in all channels)
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[jgmac1106] I think [aaronpk] keeps a nick database or is playing with one. I was talking about the IndieWeb phone book as well, was wondering if you could just scrap the h-card of different users wiki pages...and if they had a u-url to a social service, or some way like you said to syndicate your h-card to a directory anyone could query
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[jgmac1106] [cleverdevil] you make the plugin I would be the second to install it
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gRegorLove_ What is nicknames cache?
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Loqi A nicknames cache is a way indieweb sites store information about people to improve the user experience of the site owner referring, mention, and/or linking to those people https://indieweb.org/nicknames-cache
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aaronpk Working on it
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[Vincent] It feels like I would want to define my own nickname in my h-card. If it doesn’t exist, then fall back to my name for what is used. People have different handles/nicknames on various social networks that might be old, they would rather not be referred by.
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[kevinmarks] you can with p-nickname; for other social networks it would be in their h-card or in their url structure
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[sebsel] [Vincent] I see nicknames more as personal to the owner of the nicknames-cache. It’s what I like to call people, my own way of quickly typing their name
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[Vincent] [kevinmarks] thanks, somehow that one slipped me by
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[kevinmarks] see also https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/AccountDiscovery
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[cleverdevil] So, that's not what I mean by nicknames.
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[cleverdevil] I mean "give me a map of a domain name to that user on other services and how to @-mention them on that platform"
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[kevinmarks] you mean autocomplete over your addressbook?
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[cleverdevil] Sort of.
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[Vincent] [sebsel] that’s an interesting issue you have raised there. Who gets to decide what people are called if its “your” site.
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[cleverdevil] I want to be able to @-mention a domain name, and then when syndicating to target platforms, transforming the content to match the expected output.
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[cleverdevil] So, I could write "Hello, @{snarfed.org}" and syndicate to Twitter, and it would translate that to "[snarfed]" (or whatever appropriate).
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sknebel lol, the Slack-IRC bridge turned that @ into brackets :D
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[cleverdevil] Autocomplete would *also* be nice.
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[kevinmarks] as part of the social graph API at google (RIP) which crawled rel=me and rel=friend and FOAF, we also built https://github.com/webjay/sgNodeMapper which understood how to map between uid and nicknames and url for various social networks
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Loqi [webjay] sgNodeMapper: "The Social Graph Node Mapper is a community project to build a portable library to map social networking sites' URLs to and from a new canonical form (sgn:// URLs)." The project was originally hosted on Google Code.
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gRegorLove There's people's preferred nicknames, which they can advertise, then there's private, personal nicknames you might store for your own usage, e.g. "mom"
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gRegorLove There was recent talk of that, though I don't see it on /nicknames-cache
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sknebel I think the latter are also sometimes called "pet names", I think someone mentioned that in the SocialCG discussions a few times
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[kevinmarks] so you'd still need to map those to something on your local site
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[sebsel] I like the “mom” example!
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[cleverdevil] My thinking is that I'd write to the domain name, and then behind the scenes, my site would fetch the domain, parse for an h-card, and magically do the right thing.
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[cleverdevil] But, having an additional layer on top where I can define my own nicknames for certain domains would be nice too, I suppose.
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gRegorLove Ah right, pet names was the term
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sknebel what is pet name?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "pet name" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "pet name is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[kevinmarks] but you wouldn't want 'mom' or 'boo' or 'petal' showing up in your own post, woudl you?
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sknebel yes, it's internal
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sknebel hm, mostly spelled as one word actually
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[kevinmarks] so you still need a petname to local public name mapping as well as remote silo @'s
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sknebel yes
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sknebel although that could be just the "normal" name from the h-card, not a nick
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[kevinmarks] so an autocomplete across several of them could work
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[kevinmarks] noterlive has something a bit liek that
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[kevinmarks] as it pulls twitter nick, text name and URL
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[kevinmarks] makes buttons for each person
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[kevinmarks] and publishes one to twitter and the others to the HTML
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[cleverdevil] On my site, I'd likely always render it as an <a href="domain">Nickname</a>
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sknebel what is petname?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "petname" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "petname is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[cleverdevil] (Oh, I mean Pet Name, not Nickname)
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sknebel A petname is a local, typically private, nickname for a user, similar to how the entries in a phone's telephone book have user-defined names, e.g. "Mom".
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Loqi ok
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GWG sknebel, we could have a session on it
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sknebel nickname caches and related? sounds like an idea.
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GWG I have always wanted to add a contact list into my website that acted as a nicknames cache and if I added a carddav integration, it could sync to my phone
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[kevinmarks] If you want code for the autocomplete part, https://leaverou.github.io/awesomplete/ is great
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sebsel GWG yeah! And then let it fetch h-cards to keep the contactinfo up to date. Then people can update their own info in my phone's contactbook
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sebsel aka then my phone always knows Zegnat current weight
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gRegorLove haha
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gRegorLove "syncing Zegnat's h-card... your contactbook storage is now full"
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