#dev 2018-11-13

2018-11-13 UTC
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snarfed hey aaronpk, how long do webmention.io status pages live for?
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snarfed i'm getting a 404 for one that's 6d old. just checking that that's expected. i didn't find anything about expiration time on wm.io or the github readme
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GWG snarfed: I pushed an update.
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snarfed GWG: thanks!
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aaronpk snarfed: looks like 3 days
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mblaney should the micropub spec mention the same rule about unrecognised properties that was discussed at the summit?
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mblaney at the moment, section 3.3.5 says ignore what you don't recognise, but the updated version would be if there's anything you don't recognise, fall back to the summary.
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Zegnat I don’t think it should be to fallback as soon as there is a single property you do not recognise, right? More like: if no content is defined and no other display can be generated from other properties fallback to summary if available
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@rubenmstb En Psicolingüística no formulario ademais do idioma materno hai que cubrir a variedade. Cun 'Western Galician' supoño que chegará, que non penso que microsubárea Tambre-Barbanza lle diga moito. (twitter.com/_/status/1062308005390307328)
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petermolnar fyi for those who want to upgrade to PHP 7.3 soon: https://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=76975
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petermolnar "PCRE to PCRE2 migration" on https://ayesh.me/Upgrade-PHP-7.3
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@nhoizey ↩️ @vincentlistens Does it mean you have support for Webmentions with @eleven_ty? (twitter.com/_/status/1062371462273753088)
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sknebel webkit had scrollbar CSS (vendor prefixed) for a while too I think
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[dave] Anyone else trying web.dev as recommended in the main indieweb channel?
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[dave] Appears to be part of a group of known issues: https://medium.com/dev-channel/web-dev-status-update-11-12-18-f9b42a693f65
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petermolnar sknebel: I had coloured scrollbar in 99, but only for IE
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sknebel petermolnar: I know they had that. you still can get it in many browsers today
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sknebel was my point
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petermolnar (btw since then I realized it's not worth it: don't mess with things like scrollbars and omnibars)
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[dave] @petermolnar re: 200 while offline: I think the general feeling among proponents of service workers are that they're simply enhancing the existing caching mechanism available in the browser, but it's a fair question to ask and I'm interested in hearing from detractors.
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[jgmac1106] [eddie] yeah a reply field to drop in any particular url, be nice, I didn't know about following people...I need to go and refollow everyone I followed on Mastodon
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[eddie] [manton] In a different channel some of us were just talking about how to reply to a random Mastodon post from Micro.blog. Obviously, right now the only way is through the Micro.blog interface and likely by following someone (unless their post is imported into Micro.blog because of an existing conversation)
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[eddie] but one thing that came up is I'm thinking a "next step" for Micro.blog might be supporting Reply posts in the Micropub endpoint. I know that probably comes with some complexities
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[eddie] but it seems like it might be useful even if it was just a shortcut for the existing JSON API
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[jgmac1106] and I actually thought all my post I syndicated through RSS were actually being published natively...your idea of a microblog micropub client would be awesome...be some time before I have skills to hack on that
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[eddie] jgmac1106 all your posts should be published but RSS doesn't have the capability to communicate replies and the like
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[eddie] so I believe they would just turn into regular posts
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[eddie] but regarding the Micropub endpoint accepting replies, if the target url contained mf2, it could import that mf2 as a native post to create the conversation within Micro.blog, then it could send either a Webmention or ActivityPub ping based on what is available on the url
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[jgmac1106] yeah I was trying to figure out why they showed on timeline but not my microblog site, you helped me with that already...the reply to Mastodon won't be too bad for people I follow...but you cant start with reply....and I can't reply to other sites from micro.blog using the JSON API seems reasonable
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aaronpk [eddie]: yep that basically describes how my micropub endpoint works
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[eddie] For urls that you reply to without mf2 might be a bit more complicated. It could just take the title of the page and put the domain after like standard article posts in Micro.blog
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aaronpk I just show the URL if I can't parse anything from the page
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aaronpk that's the easy version
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[eddie] Yeah that's for a website that shows reply contexts
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[eddie] but in the conversation page of Micro.blog I think you'd need more than a url
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aaronpk ah right, that is a different kind of display
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[eddie] but since the article view of Micro.blog is already well know as a name following by a hyperlinked domain name, I think it would be fitting
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[eddie] to just grab the page title
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aaronpk good point!
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[eddie] It would look native even if it wasn't
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[eddie] And while if it doesn't receive webmentions or ActivityPub the author might not actually receive a reply, it could build up interesting commentary threads within Micro.blog
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[eddie] aaronpk I was looking at the audience property today and I saw your post that you syndicated to IRC back awhile ago, and that reminded me that i had thought about doing that for awhile
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aaronpk hehe
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[eddie] but i keep coming back to I don't know if it's worth syndicating to IRC if there's no clear easy to way to follow it
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[eddie] My thought though, is start on the IndieWeb chat page
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[eddie] reply to a comment there, any replies targeted at that page could figure out which IRC channel to map those replies to
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[eddie] I could then do a reply with reply-context on my site
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[eddie] and the post would just be appended to the end of IRC
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[eddie] The other thing that would be helpful is that (when it's running and not broken) currently I have a script that sends posts from the chat logs to my notifications channels if I or indigenous are mentioned
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[eddie] So then I could reply to those from my reader
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[eddie] which would be nifty if I didn't want to go through all the logs but I wanted to reply to someone in particular
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[eddie] but *shrug* I keep switching back and forth when I think about it. It's actually possible now that I'm off of Jekyll though
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[eddie] is there a specific reason you didn't continue to syndicate posts?
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aaronpk probably like you said, no way to follow it
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aaronpk I do keep thinking about it now and then
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aaronpk mostly when I have something I want to share here, not as part of normal chatter
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[eddie] ahh makes sense
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aaronpk I think also when I want to share something here, I often don't want it on my home page or sent to my micro.blog or mastodon followers
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aaronpk and I dont have a good UI for making that not get blasted out everwhere
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sknebel and if it is a proper announcement of something on topic, there'S indienews which ends up here
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[eddie] ahh gotcha. Yeah, for replies that wouldn't have to be the case
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[eddie] but original posts that's difficult
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sknebel I feel like if I wanted interaction with IRC it'd be bookmarks
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aaronpk I do still favorite things from the chat logs now and then
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[eddie] I could see that being an unlisted post that's syndicated for me
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[eddie] unlisted for me won't show up in any feeds or on any pages but the permalink
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[eddie] although I guess if you tag it with a tag...
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[jgmac1106] [eddie] I have done reply post to the url of a specific chat
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[eddie] yeah jgmac1106? Did you manually copy it into the chat
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[jgmac1106] not to POSSE IRC but simply not to spam it
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[eddie] or was it just to discuss what was in the chat?
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[jgmac1106] no, I go find the url on chat.indieweb.org and write a reply or usually bookmark
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[eddie] I'm not sure which should win out on an unlisted post with a tag... I'm guessing unlisted, but it would be helpful to have unlisted posts in certain areas like the tag pages since those are manually added
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[jgmac1106] yeah more breakout discussion, then syndicating...
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[eddie] Ahh gotcha
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[eddie] that makes sense
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[eddie] I've linked to the chat logs from posts before
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[eddie] but not done replies
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[jgmac1106] I could give this a whirl: https://github.com/mapkyca/KnownIRC
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Loqi [mapkyca] KnownIRC: IRC Syndication plugin for Known
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[manton] [eddie] Replying to a Mastodon post that isn't already in the timeline is something I want to solve. Usually you can click on the user's Mastodon name in Micro.blog and it will show whatever they've posted, so you can reply there.
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[eddie] Ahh that makes sense. So either in your feed or on their profile page. That makes sense 🙂
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[manton] There should probably be a way to "load" an arbitrary Mastodon post in Micro.blog, though. Just not sure where that would be hooked in.
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[eddie] Yeah, I feel like that's where a Micropub Reply would come in handy. But I having some kind of a textbox where you could put the url would be a simple first step probably
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[manton] So, to support that, I really just need to accept `in-reply-to` in Micropub, right? I wonder why I don't already support that.
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aaronpk quill does something like this already. when you paste a URL in the "reply" field, it goes and fetches the URL and shows a little preview
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[manton] Nice.
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[eddie] I think you haven't done it yet because it suggests a possible complexity on where the reply posts go: the blog or the timeline
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[eddie] But I think because people on Micro.blog are trained, you can just send it straight to the timeline for now
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[eddie] Although, it could allow you to collect replies in storage (like you did for webmentions before rolling out any UI)
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[eddie] But yes, in-reply-to with the url of the page the person is replying to is all you need
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[manton] Cool. Yeah, the Micropub endpoint can actually already be used to create @-mentions. Anything starting with an "@" is routed to the timeline as a reply.
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[manton] But in-reply-to is missing.
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[eddie] ohhh interesting!
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[eddie] Yeah that seems like a pretty easy add-on then, routing in-reply-to through as well
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[manton] Yes. I think it's time to add that and deprecate my extra M.b-specific reply endpoint.
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[eddie] Yeah, that would awesome. It would definitely help simplify the API
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[eddie] not that it's complex or anything lol
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[manton] Heh.
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[manton] Yeah, the Micropub endpoint is a monster... Posts, replies, favoriting, Indiepaper... It's a mess.
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[manton] Also, to [aaronpk]'s question from #chat, that Mastodon thread is brought into M.b via ActivityPub replies.
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[eddie] Haha yeah Micropub endpoints can be a beast
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[eddie] mine is in a monolithic crazy file. I need to break it down a bit more into seperation concerns
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[eddie] actually now that I'm free of Jekyll, I have a Post class that is essentially a fancy mf2 object with functions, so I can probably start offloading a lot of my "Micropub endpoint" logic into the actual Post class itself
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[tantek] this is an amazing thread: https://micro.blog/manton/1040840
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Loqi Gargron@mastodon.social
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[tantek] manton++
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Loqi manton has 23 karma in this channel over the last year (68 in all channels)
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aaronpk i just got a webmention from gargron's profile page on micro.blog https://micro.blog/Gargron@mastodon.social
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[manton] Hmm. That seems... wrong?
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[manton] [tantek] It's great to see Mastodon adopt some IndieWeb building blocks.
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[manton] [aaronpk] I assume the source/target was that profile page and your recent reply to me?
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[manton] (Also, I just finally fixed the issue of "update" Webmentions creating duplicates on M.b. Will be deploying the fix this afternoon.)
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[eddie] 🙌🙌🙌
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[tantek] ooh that's a pretty major fix
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[eddie] manton++
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Loqi manton has 24 karma in this channel over the last year (69 in all channels)
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[tantek] manton indeed! It does seem like adding IndieAuth provider support to Mastodon's existing OAuth2 + profile URLs would be very straightforward
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[manton] I hope so too. It'll be a really nice addition to Mastodon.
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snarfed on a related mastodon/AP note, now that bridgy fed supports following (both directions), it's fun to see my followers on mastodon start to accumulate as indie follow webmentions and render nicely: https://snarfed.org/about#comment-2615238
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snarfed even shows off GWG's code that lets wordpress users delegate homepage webmentions to another page (eg /about for me)
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[eddie] awesome job, snarfed!
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[eddie] snarfed++
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Loqi snarfed has 66 karma in this channel over the last year (109 in all channels)
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[eddie] I'm getting excited to try out Bridgy Fed now that it seems like some more things are ironed out a bit 😄
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snarfed yes! even original post (ie Create) delivery is getting close. https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy-fed/issues/33
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Loqi [swentel] #33 Allow creating posts
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snarfed example indie follow mf2 from bridgy fed: https://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ffed.brid.gy%2Frender%3Fsource%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftoot.cafe%2F3d36ccca-de8a-4d5b-b1bc-0be967c2b663%26target%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fsnarfed.org%2F
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snarfed (based on https://indieweb.org/follow )
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[eddie] great! Now I just have to figure out how to get webmention.io (aka xray) to support follow posts haha or I'll need to add another layer of webmention parsing in
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aaronpk urgh i think that's on my todo list
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[eddie] I can always try to hop in there and send a PR when I get around to Bridgy Fed if you haven't gotten there yet
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snarfed does wm.io have to do something special per post type? kinda surprising
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snarfed doesn't actually know much about wm.io
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[eddie] wm.io uses xray
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[eddie] xray's jf2 objects
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[eddie] so it doesn't just hand you the raw mf2
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[eddie] which is nice for dealing with as long as you're not trying cutting edge features haha
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snarfed ah heh
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[tantek] snarfed the comment on your about page from "Egyptian Athletic Champions Association" 😂😂
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snarfed oh god yes, one for the ages
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[tantek] manton, re: de-duping, is that why aaronpk's reply shows up twice at the bottom of this page? https://micro.blog/manton/1040840
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Loqi Gargron@mastodon.social
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[manton] [tantek] Yes. I removed the duplicate, but shouldn't happen again after I finish deploying this fix.
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[tantek] nice
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[eddie] !tell snarfed If I'm using this for my Bridgy Fed Atom Feed, is this whole url what I need to send to the WebSub Hub? https://granary.io/url?url=https://eddiehinkle.com/timeline/&input=html&output=atom&hub=https://switchboard.p3k.io/
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[eddie] I'm guessing so because it looks like the feed presents the entire url including the "hub=" portion as link rel=self
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sknebel [eddie]: yes, has to to work
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[eddie] gotcha :thumbsup:
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[eddie] :crossed_fingers:
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[eddie] whoa! did aaronpk just add follow support to xray already today?
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[eddie] http://xray.p3k.io/parse?url=https%3A%2F%2Ffed.brid.gy%2Frender%3Fsource%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fmastodon.social%252Fc0378b97-81ed-4f0e-b2db-8498101cb798%26target%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Feddiehinkle.com%252F&pretty=true
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[eddie] Also, yay, snarfed! Seems to work! Now to find someone to reply to!
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Loqi giggles
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sebsel nice, because of async webmention verification, I was able to fix a spelling mistake before it showed up elsewhere :P
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Loqi sebsel: [eddie] left you a message 4 days, 23 hours ago: Please bug me about adding subscribing to Indigenous. That was supposed to be in before it went public and I still just haven't gotten around to it
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Loqi sebsel: swentel left you a message 1 day, 2 hours ago: no not all api actions are implemented yet, will happen in https://github.com/swentel/indieweb/issues/250
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[eddie] Ha! That's awesome sebsel
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sebsel haha, and I will bug you, sure :)
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[manton] [eddie] Just noticed this post from you: https://eddiehinkle.com/2018/11/13/20/reply/
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Loqi [Eddie Hinkle] There are a bunch of great Micropub apps for the Web, iOS and Android so I definitely think it would be helpful to add Micropub support.
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[manton] It's an interesting problem of what to do with that. Currently, M.b accepts the Webmention and threads it into the conversation. However, it can't notify Eugen's Mastodon instance because your account isn't using ActivityPub.
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[manton] So he'll never see the reply unless he happens to check the conversation in Micro.blog. I realized about halfway through implementing all of this that there would be some confusing situations like that, but not sure it is really solvable except to prevent M.b users from replying at all in that case.
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[manton] Lemme know if that makes sense or if anyone has brilliant ideas for solving it. 🙂
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tantek__ manton - I saw Eddie's response on Mastodon - scroll to the bottom here: https://mastodon.social/@Gargron/101059395256808997
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Loqi [Eugen 🎄] Reading the #micropub spec. Seems simple enough, would anyone benefit from us adding that? Is anyone using that?
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tantek__ so presumably he's seen the reply!
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tantek__ eddie++
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Loqi eddie has 45 karma in this channel over the last year (72 in all channels)
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[eddie] manton I used Bridgy Fed for that
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[eddie] [manton] however it’s a great question. What to do about M.b users that do something similar without understanding Activity Pub integration
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[kevinmarks] My reply to Manton on micro.blog doesn't show up on the mastodon version 9f the thread but I don't know what would have to change for that to work. https://mastodon.social/@Gargron/101059395256808997
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Loqi [Eugen 🎄] Reading the #micropub spec. Seems simple enough, would anyone benefit from us adding that? Is anyone using that?
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[eddie] Yeah that’s tricky KevinMarks because you sent a webmention to essentially an IndieWeb website (manton’s) but his was in reply to an ActivityPub instance
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[eddie] It’s a whole new world with Micro.blog and Bridgy Fed ActivityPub integration but now we have a whole new set of issues! Haha
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swentel SaltivityPub :)
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[manton] [kevinmarks] Currently the only way it could work is if you enabled ActivityPub support in your account on Micro.blog, and then when replying also @-mention a Mastodon user in the thread to force it to notify Mastodon. Possibly I could code around that second part later by automatically sending it to Mastodon when it's part of an existing thread.
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[manton] But without a user to mention, I'm not sure that would work.
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snarfed glad you're enjoying it [eddie]!
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Loqi snarfed: [eddie] left you a message 48 minutes ago: If I'm using this for my Bridgy Fed Atom Feed, is this whole url what I need to send to the WebSub Hub? https://granary.io/url?url=https://eddiehinkle.com/timeline/&input=html&output=atom&hub=https://switchboard.p3k.io/
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snarfed heads off to follow [eddie] from mastodon
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[tantek] what is WriteFreely?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "WriteFreely" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "WriteFreely is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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snarfed done
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[tantek] WriteFreely is an upcoming [[Micropub]] client per https://writing.exchange/@matt/101060189021992761.
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Loqi ok
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Loqi [matt] @Gargron I'm planning on implementing it in WriteFreely, personally. It'd be awesome if Mastodon supported it too!
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sknebel [tantek]: writefreely is a blogging platform, so it's probably not gonna be a client?
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[kevinmarks] It may be - the model of splitting the front end and the back end using micropub as the api is a good one
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snarfed [eddie]: just fyi bridgy fed sent you a follow from my mastodon user just now, https://mastodon.technology/@snarfed
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Loqi Ryan Barrett
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[eddie] Awesome, I see it snarfed!
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[tantek] sknebel - ah wasn't clear about that about WriteFreely - please fix - I couldn't find a source other than that Masto link
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[tantek] or maybe worth replying to that link asking the author if they're implementing client, server, or both
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kisik21 aaronpk: does telegraph.p3k.io expose an API for batch-sending webmentions to all links in the page like the web ui for /dashboard/send?
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[kevinmarks] I made one for mention.tech
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[Vincent] @kisik21 from the telegraph API docs “If you pass target_domain instead of target, Telegraph will find and enqueue webmentions for all links to that domain” So I believe yes, if you use target_domain instead of target.
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kisik21 [Vincent]: too much parsing on my side, need this to be quick because this is gonna be from CI script in bash. I'm not gonna implement HTML parsing in bash...
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kisik21 [kevinmarks]: /mentionall?url=$url, am I right?
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@nhoizey ↩️ Ok, that’s awesome! I’m currently using @jekyllrb and @AaronGustafson’s plugin for Webmentions, but I’m trying @eleven_ty for another site. (twitter.com/_/status/1062490211698008064)
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@manton2 Rolled out several fixes today for receiving Webmentions, parsing different kinds of usernames, and notifying Mastodon instances. Hopefully all these cross-site interactions will be a little bit more seamless now. (twitter.com/_/status/1062492060748599296)
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GWG Evening
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[eddie] !tell tantek: https://writing.exchange/@matt/101066523112656548
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi [matt] @eddiehinkle.com I would definitely like to support it working as a client -- probably in the web editor, but definitely in our native desktop apps.
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[eddie] WriteFreely << https://writing.exchange/@matt/101066523112656548
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Loqi ok, I added "https://writing.exchange/@matt/101066523112656548" to a brand new "See Also" section of /WriteFreely https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=53869&oldid=53857
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Loqi [matt] @eddiehinkle.com I would definitely like to support it working as a client -- probably in the web editor, but definitely in our native desktop apps.
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aaronpk kisik21: I don't remember actually, but it would be documented on either the telegraph website or in its github readme
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[eddie] Good evening, GWG
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GWG [eddie]: What are you up to?
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[eddie] Working on cleaning up my Bridgy Fed integration. I need to set up automated webmentions for it and also my posts are ending up with content warnings equal to my content, which is strange... I think it’s my p-summary that was messing it up
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[eddie] What about you?