#dev 2019-02-11

2019-02-11 UTC
[jgmac1106], [schmarty], [tantek], [cleverdevil] and jgmac1106 joined the channel
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jgmac1106 gwg moved the discussion out of #wordPress and into here but the more I think about the default view in Known should wrap everything in an h-feed. Seems to be easiest thing to do at a global level than per feed. Then the h-feed gets selected dynamically as the user chooses what is on home page or reader selects feeds by filtering post types and/or hashtags
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GWG Not familiar with how Known does it, but it would be good to support h-feed
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jgmac1106 would be pagination issues I know nothign about but it seems logical, it is just a way to display different streams in a ton of different combindations
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[jgmac1106] then people could subscribe to this [eddie]: https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/content/photos/?q=%23IndieWeb
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[eddie] [jgmac1106] I obviously missed part of this convo from the other channel but the only danger about EVERYTHING being in an h-feed is content can be mis-diagnosed as a feed
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[eddie] A page should ONLY have h-feed if it’s actually a feed
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[eddie] Yep, that should have an h-feed
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[eddie] Definitely, that’d be great
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[jgmac1106] yeah everythign in Known should have an h-feed, I can mix and match and build them in any way just need to get at the first page build
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jgmac1106 wait I wonder if it generates it..never threw a link like that at aperture the h-entries just get numbered in parsers
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jgmac1106 randomly there is <a name="feed></a> on every page. is that an error or does that do anything?
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jgmac1106 okay you can follow it by microformats but I don’t know if the h-feed is getting put in in somehow or if aperture just smart enough to handle list of h-entries
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jgmac1106 but @gwg in terms of Parse This I don’t know what it means as Aperture can pick up the feed
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GWG jgmac1106: I just fixed Parse This to do implied feeds
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GWG name = feed would not.
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GWG [eddie]: There are too many cases of feeds that aren't marked up as feeds. My post processor wasn't handling that. I just fixed it.
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GWG Also had to add author tags where I didn't have them, but unrelated other than one exposed the other.
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jgmac1106 ahh well will spend time trying to get it proper. Probably any fix, will file an issue
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jgmac1106 being explicit always better than implicit
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jgmac1106 now I know enough to work on the “how to follow me page” in the morning good night all
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jacky anyone use yourls? https://github.com/yourls/yourls
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Loqi [YOURLS] YOURLS: 🔗 Your Own URL Shortener
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jacky what is yourls
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Loqi short domains are commonly used on the IndieWeb for personal URL shortening, or clever domain hacks https://indieweb.org/yourls
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jacky my domain's already pretty short
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jacky no need for it really
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[eddie] !tell [jgmac1106],GWG Yeah feeds should definitely be marked up as h-feed but in CMSes the other has to be protected against: having h-feed and a single h-entry on non-feed pages. I tried to reply to someone the other day but their single post page had an h-feed on the body so it was detected as a feed with a single post
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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GWG [eddie]: WordPress themes make that mistake all the time
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[eddie] yeah, I think it was a WordPress page. So my fear when I saw [jgmac1106] say “h-feed on all the pages in Known” that if that wasn’t considered he’d end up with the same problem
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GWG [eddie]: This is the reverse problem. When I mentioned it to him, I was referring to h-feed not being on pages where I would expect it
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Zegnat That reverse problem is definitely tricky too. Rather than implying a feed you then need to know when you aren’t looking for the feed :(
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[jgmac1106] Folks will couldn't come up with a scenario, except my static pages (which wouldn't have it) where my Known stream shouldn't be in there
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[jgmac1106] It has like 14.435 different types of metadata.. One extra div shouldn't hurt
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Zegnat Every extra div hurts a POSH developer somewhere ;)
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[jgmac1106] But with that one div I might be able to turn four more into p, spans and lis
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[jgmac1106] Good line though
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jeremycherfas I thought each extra div killed a fairy.
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petermolnar damn, I wanted to recommend this for that one more div: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Tools/3D_View - but it's not available any more
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[jgmac1106] petermolnar looking at the contributor list I know a few of them...wonder if it lives on somewhere. karthikprabhu helped me get my divs down quite small in the resume..
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Zegnat What is divitis?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "divitis" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "divitis is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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Zegnat What is spanitis?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "spanitis" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "spanitis is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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Zegnat Hmm, I am sure that was the term
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[jgmac1106] What is Divitis?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Divitis" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Divitis is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[jgmac1106] nope what is Spanitis?
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[jgmac1106] What is Spanitis?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Spanitis" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Spanitis is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[Rose] What is divitus?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "divitus" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "divitus is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[Rose] What is spanitus?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "spanitus" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "spanitus is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[Rose] Thought I'd just check other spellings...
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[jgmac1106] but not I want to do a comic of some Gladiator fight of Spanitus fighting Divitus
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[jgmac1106] The div count is too damn high
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Loqi http://meme.loqi.me/m/4yyz1Ay0.jpg
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@jgmac1106 Thanks, I fixed it. You get an h-card and webmentions with @blogger but that is more than enough for folks to enjoy the bounty of #IndieWeb, just having a place to call your own is all you need. Everything else just empowers the network. (https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/7ERRk) (twitter.com/_/status/1094933556395155456)
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[jgmac1106] thinking it may be possible to hack a minimum amount of microformats into Blogger:http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdrmacsspot.blogspot.com%2F2019%2F02%2Freply-post-test.html
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[jgmac1106] got the h-entry in there so far
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sknebel kevinmarks's http://epeus.blogspot.com/ shows that you can get basically perfect mf2 on there
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[jgmac1106] do we have a guide??? Tons of people would do that tomorrow
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sknebel don't know? I'd guess he's made a custom theme adding them
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sknebel [kevinmarks]: have you documented somewhere how you got the mf2 for http://epeus.blogspot.com/ ?
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[jgmac1106] Yeah Google+ shut down 4/2. We get that guide out there be a lot of Blogger folks who would want to do it.
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[kevinmarks] Blogger had mf1 in by default for ages (I added that when I worked at google 10 years ago)
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sknebel right, but you got nice mf2
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[kevinmarks] http://www.unmung.com/mf2?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbrandnewdefault.blogspot.com%2F&html=&pretty=on
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sknebel "just" edited your theme? just saw that you can edit them fairly freely in some XML-based thing
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[kevinmarks] looks like they too the hentry off the default now https://yetanotherdefault.blogspot.com/
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[kevinmarks] yeah, bt the default themes are now 4000 lines of cryptic stuff
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@m_andrasch Dezentrale #Webmentions als Ersatz für Kommentarfunktion? https://alistapart.com/article/webmentions-enabling-better-communication-on-the-internet (Auch ggf. wegen #DSGVO und Kommentarspam interessant, wenn man trotz abgeschalteter Kommentarfunktion Antworten zu Beiträgen zulassen möchte via Blogs oder #SocialMedia?) (twitter.com/_/status/1094970730549260293)
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[kevinmarks] the theme language is complicated, yes.
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jgmac1106 I found a revert to clasic theme button
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jgmac1106 this is doable
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jgmac1106 maybe like take five minutes doable while I sit waiting for my laptop
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jgmac1106 Boom! https://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fdrmacsspot.blogspot.com%2F2019%2F02%2Freply-post-test.html
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Loqi Reply post test
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jgmac1106 lose the widget so I have to go add my h-card back but this is doable
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jgmac1106 hey funny thing is I have to use IE to get in input field for chat and then use firefox to read, neither browser has boh features
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jgmac1106 or my school blocks it
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Zegnat That sounds like a bug, jgmac1106
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jgmac1106 but I am really close to a five minute hack on blogger http://drmacsspot.blogspot.com/2019/02/reply-post-test.html
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jgmac1106 looks like i duplicated h-cards by adding a sidebar and I should try to use post footer but if I can do this Google+ people will go crazy
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@jgmac1106 OMG OMG So excited. I think I learned today that by reverting back to classic @Blogger themes and five minutes of hacking on one HTML file you can launch an #IndieWeb blog with proper microformats so easily add webmentions with Bridgy and BOOM! … https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2019/02/11/omg-omg-so-excited-i-think-i (twitter.com/_/status/1094987172791369728)
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[kevinmarks] I did this years ago and can't remember the details. The easiest way through may be to inspect a theme's output and then search for those classes in the theme and add the mf2 ones
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sknebel ok. seems like jgmac1106 has figured out how to get started at least :)
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[kevinmarks] https://github.com/postlight/mercury-parser/tree/master/src/extractors/custom looks like you could add an mf2 parser that looks for h-entry
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[jgmac1106] [sknebel] yes already closeish
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[jgmac1106] Now to figure out if there is a way for a a note... Article and reply easy
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[cleverdevil] It works really nicely.
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[cleverdevil] !tell [grantcodes] we should consider using the now open source Mercury Parser (written in Node) in Together for loading full content for articles that don't embed all of their content in their feeds.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[kevinmarks] interesting: https://github.com/postlight/mercury-parser/blob/15f7fa1e27fe6b47c87da40ba4fce9b2db7934ec/src/extractors/generic/content/scoring/constants.js#L115
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[cleverdevil] Oh cool 🙂
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[kevinmarks] they have hentry and hfeed, maybe add hyphenated ones?
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[kevinmarks] can use mastodon for justification 😄
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[jgmac1106] And I can publish tireless posts.
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[jgmac1106] Will publish tutorial tonight
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[jgmac1106] Titeless the
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jacky anyone has "collection" style posts?
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jacky like intermixed with photo, video and what not?
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jacky I'm about to check the wiki but I'm a bit confused on how to store its dominant type
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jacky I'm thinking about opting towards 'photo' first but that's me opting for ease over anything else
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jacky welp lol https://indieweb.org/collection
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jacky ahhh this works actually
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jacky > The prevailing idea on marking up collection posts is that a collection is an h-entry that contains children h-entries.
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jacky but then I think it'd default to be of a "note" type
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jacky this is interesting
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[Rose] There's also the "what comes first in Micropub spec dictates post type" approach.
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[schmarty] ooh, good point. Post-Type Discovery doesn't say anything about (for example) what to do if the h-entry has children
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[Rose] I think it would be logical if it followed the same path?
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jacky :thinking_face:
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jacky I think I might internally introduce a new post type called 'collection' but expose it as a 'note'
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jacky for my system at least
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jacky this way I can do better permalinking of each individual post
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jacky and that'll convince me to do this refactor to have a group of photos have their own permalinks
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jacky or current lists of photos
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[grantcodes] jacky: in my internal post type discovery I add a rule that if there are children then it is a collection. Pretty easy rule to add in
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sknebel please document what you do for collections and what you see doing it on /collection, for things that are in flux that's especially important!
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[grantcodes] [cleverdevil] I could look at switching out the full article parser in together, not checked yet but what makes Mercury parser better?
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[grantcodes] Not sure I have much to add to the /collection page. Apart from I use photo.postrchild.com and I suppose I could check where I add it to my post type logic
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sknebel if it already says how you mark them up (and maybe how you post them through postrchild) then good, didn't check what's there already
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sknebel similarly, causes the ptd change any issues, e.g. does it think posts that aren't intended to be collects are etc
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sknebel (i.e. is an embedded h-card for someone that's mentioned enough to turn it into a collection?)
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[kevinmarks] Children could be replies or citations too, right?
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[schmarty] kevinmarks: maybe! my citations are children h-cites, but other people's replies that i display on my post are "p-comment h-cite", so not listed in children afaik
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[jgmac1106] Does this look like a correct note? https://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdrmacsspot.blogspot.com%2F2019%2F02%2Fthis-is-note-test-hey-folks.html
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Loqi This is a note test hey folks.
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@voxpelli ↩️ More on the proposal: https://juliareda.eu/eu-copyright-reform/extra-copyright-for-news-sites/ Sounds to me like this would pretty severely hurt Webmentions and the @indiewebcamp community, Mastodon community etc. So rather than liberating us from large scale social networks it ensures only they can exist? (twitter.com/_/status/1095053074090131464)
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voxpelli Yay @ EU trying to yet again create laws around digital stuff they don’t understand...
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Loqi does a happy dance!
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voxpelli gives Loqi a surströmming
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Loqi eats the surströmming
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[kevinmarks] Did aperture refetch a lot today? Suddenly all my unread counts are huge and I'm seeing old posts
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Kaja https://php.microformats.io/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdrmacsspot.blogspot.com%2F
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sknebel !mf2 https://drmacsspot.blogspot.com/
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Loqi [Greg McVerry] Liked: Ian O'Byrne
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sknebel [jgmac1106]: first glance: the u-urls on the h-entries don't point to the permalinks, and no h-feed, but good start
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[jgmac1106] yeah getting the p-name directly after the element with tough h-feed
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[jgmac1106] but I think I will be able to do this, ain't building for myself but sometimes working for others is a great goal
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[jgmac1106] https://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdrmacsspot.blogspot.com%2F
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[jgmac1106] ahh but now each post is showing as an h-feed because it is in header not home page...may just have to rely on implied feed
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[jgmac1106] hey sknebel the h-entry item doesn't note how to add permalinks I am thinking just a u-url? http://microformats.org/wiki/h-entry
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Loqi [Tantek Çelik] h-entry is a simple, open format for episodic or datestamped content on the web. h-entry is often used with content intended to be syndicated, e.g. blog posts. h-entry is one of several open microformat standards suitable for embedding data in HTML. ...
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sknebel [jgmac1106]: yes
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sknebel right now they all point to the homepage, not the page for the post
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sknebel [jgmac1106]: looks good now :)
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[jgmac1106] https://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdrmacsspot.blogspot.com%2F2019%2F02%2Fblog-post_33.html
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Loqi [Greg McVerry] Liked: Ian O'Byrne
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[jgmac1106] now if I can squeeze in the h-entry somehow on the entire feed...but I think I may have to leave implied....
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@jgmac1106 a @blogger site that works with #IndieWeb tools,had to revert (should say improve) back to classic themes to edit HTML but with just a few changes I can get webmentions publish post, photo, replies, likes, and bookmarks: https://drmacsspot.blogspot.com/… https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2019/02/11/a-blogger-site-that-works-with-indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/1095069063926169600)
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sknebel If I get their syntax right: <b:if cond='data:blog.pageType != &quot;static_page&quot;'><b:if cond='data:blog.pageType != &quot;item&quot;'> <-- stuff only for feeds here --> </b:if></b:if>
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sknebel or maybe better <b:if cond='data:blog.pageType == "index"'> </b:if>
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[jgmac1106] can you add it here: https://gist.github.com/jgmac1106/1bea040bd2d2f65151b43bff14c6c205?
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[jgmac1106] I don't have any idea what you wrote...getting the h-feed done and we can offer 1000s more some IndieWeb goodness
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sknebel hm, seems like that'S a different template markup style
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[jgmac1106] one html file....If I put the h-feed in the header then its every post as an h-feed
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[jgmac1106] if I don't put it in then every post is a child of the first post...must be a way
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sknebel [jgmac1106]: try https://gist.github.com/sknebel/0236a4f820147c8d226473cd988409c2 ?
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sknebel (seems like they have two ways for making templates, and for one I can'T find obvious documentation...)
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@TechLifeWeb Liked this tweet: Greg McVerry on Twitter: “a @blogger site that works with #IndieWeb tools,had to revert (should say improve) back to classic themes to edit HTML but with just a few changes I can get webmentions publish post, photo, replies, likes, and bookmarks… (twitter.com/_/status/1095072210878939136)
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[tantek] <!here> developers, do you work a Micropub client? Can you make sure your client has an exemplary screenshot in its entry here? https://indieweb.org/Micropub/Clients Thanks!
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[jgmac1106] !tell Skenbel thx will try theme edit and let you know.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[jgmac1106] [chrisaldrich] I have to press pause and get some other stuff done but wonder if Telegraph APi can be used to make a Google Gadget: https://developers.google.com/gadgets/docs/fundamentals
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