#dev 2019-02-16

2019-02-16 UTC
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ I only tweet from @withknown, have it set up to where I can choose to syndicate to #mb @microdotblog, my Mastodon Social instance and my Known blog as it's own instance using https://fed.brid.gy had LinkedIn going for a while. (https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/1bB8Ew) (twitter.com/_/status/1096572097621561345)
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aaronpk considers putting in a system notice in everyone's aperture notifications channel apologizing for the mess I made of it this week
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aaronpk i just realized that I can arbitrarily add stuff to the response and as long as it looks the same as a real h-entry it will show up in ppls readers
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snarfed 😈
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[jgmac1106] aaronpk just realized he has way to delver best of aperture this week
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aaronpk oh no
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[jgmac1106] yes you told me why oh no
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[jgmac1106] would have to be human curated so its an oh no but doable for when you add billable services
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[jgmac1106] has anyone tried bridgy fed with a Known multiuser site? The user profiles seem to parse well but the user name is the domain name, so I don't see how it coudl work
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[jgmac1106] says in instructions: Must be used with a single-user theme.
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@t #IndieWebCamp #Austin is next weekend! Get a #website, #ownyourdata, cut back #socialmedia, or hack on #dweb #webstandards. Join @manton2(@microdotblog) @aaronpk(#indieauth #webmention) @dshanske(#WordPress #IndieWeb) & more! RSVP: https://2019.indieweb.org/austin http://tantek.com/t4z22 (twitter.com/_/status/1096600338805731329)
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GWG I'm in the advertisement...
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[tantek] waits for aaronpk to put ads in aperture feeds 😂 (you know, to pay for the hosting :D)
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[tantek] you are part of the attraction GWG 😄
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aaronpk I mean I could...
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GWG [tantek]: I get to unveil a surprise.
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aaronpk wonder who I could sell the ad space to
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[jgmac1106] not ad space, curated content
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[jgmac1106] the best way to deal with discovery might be to monetize it, subscribe to X's aperture "best of feature" 0.99 a wekk
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[jgmac1106] not going to build the house but maybe cover the faucet
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[jgmac1106] [aaronpk] know anything about ownyourgram, Known and multi-photo posting? Think I would need to use article template rather than photo, but looking at documentation that shouldn't matter to ownyour gram
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[jgmac1106] done, switched to json, you are a magician
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@mrkrndvs ↩️ Dave, although I have concerns about Twitter, I do like the way webmentions brings comments back to my site. I am not sure if this is what is meant by ‘gluing apps together’? https://collect.readwriterespond.com/dave-winer-on-the-purpose-of-twitter/ (twitter.com/_/status/1096726532909723648)
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ Currently takes me seven clicks to reply to my own post. I want to let my webmentions to thread well and that's too much work. Think auto reply could get it down to two or three clicks. (https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/d8t71) (twitter.com/_/status/1096745559904391168)
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sknebel what is silo.pub?
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Loqi silo.pub is a Micropub endpoint for hosted blogs like Tumblr, WordPress.com, Blogger, and Twitter https://indieweb.org/Silo.pub
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@mxbck ↩️ @sonniesedge Testing webmentions? :) (twitter.com/_/status/1096758314086662144)
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@janboddez ↩️ Zelfde setup als het andere (Laravel/Blade, met WordPress als back-end interface). Bijna alle pages worden keihard gecachet tot er 'ns iets verandert. Microformats. Zelfde fonts als voordien, maar een nieuw kleurtje. Geen comments, maar webmentions zijn onderweg. (twitter.com/_/status/1096781261882961921)
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@jgmac1106 @mathewin Who should #IndieWeb talk to so we help add webmentions to Galley or syndicate posts back to contributor website? I know common retort Journalists no longer have websites. That's the point. They should. Don't shape other truth online until… https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2019/02/16/mathewin-who-should-indieweb-talk-to (twitter.com/_/status/1096798210704711681)
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@jgmac1106 @mathewi Who should #IndieWeb talk to so we help add webmentions to Galley or syndicate posts back to contributor website? I know common retort Journalists no longer have websites. That's the point. They should. Don't shape other truth online until you… https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2019/02/16/mathewi-who-should-indieweb-talk-to-so (twitter.com/_/status/1096798535335448580)
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[jgmac1106] Looks like Mathew Ingram would like to add IndieWeb tool to the Columbia Journalism Review site...anyone want to help on this project?
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GWG What do they use software wise?
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[jgmac1106] trying to find out..I just see one line of javascript
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[jgmac1106] can someone please figure out how to pesos DOS game file saves from archive.org back to my site and then be able to then open the file again?
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swentel GWG, does wordpress micropub support upload multiple files ?
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Loqi swentel: GWG left you a message 23 hours, 15 minutes ago: New features work for me
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swentel oh, cool :)
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Zegnat [jgmac1106]: re #indieweb note that webmentions are not webhooks. Unlike webhooks, webmentions have a secondary validation step, because they are meant to express “A mentions B”. If A isn’t a public online resource, it doesn’t really make sense for a webmention to be sent
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Loqi Zegnat: [jgmac1106] left you a message 1 day, 4 hours ago: it is hacky but figured out way to send students private "post" I send a reply but set it as private in Known. The webmention shows up in moderation... Student doesn't publish it...private post like.. But I can deliver critical feedback
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Zegnat That’s why I find any sort of mention of Webmention (ha!) when one of the two parties is Slack or Email confusing.
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[jgmac1106] yes but if I could use a webhook to get a json of the reply commetn out of Slack >transform that into proper u-in-reply-to>micropub to my site, show up under link you posted as comment
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[jgmac1106] again I don't really know what I am talking about but people do crazy things with slackbots,
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[eddie] Yeah, you could do that. It just wouldn’t be a webmention
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Zegnat Yes, but then the webmention would be your site -> my site. The whole Slack part of the flow never send a webmention.
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[jgmac1106] yes it would, I am getting the micropub reply post, you who posted the link are getting webmention
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[jgmac1106] figured a webmention needs a permalink, thus the PESOS step
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Zegnat That would be something like this then:
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Zegnat Slack -{ ??? }-> Bridge -{ Micropub }-> Your Website -{ Webmention }-> My Website
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[jgmac1106] yes {???} not sure possible
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[jgmac1106] unless you are archiving
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[jgmac1106] I shouldn't be doing this now...but reading about chat history aAPIs
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Zegnat Looks like the ??? could have been Outgoing Webhooks (https://api.slack.com/custom-integrations/outgoing-webhooks) but those are “legacy” and “outdated”
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[jgmac1106] if I can start GitHub issues, publish Trello cards etc with bots and apps this must be doable
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Zegnat It sounds super possible. I am just not sure what the gain is. At the end of that chain I now know that you wrote something in Slack that linked to my site. But because I can’t view the Slack discussion, there will be a severe lack of context
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[jgmac1106] we don't use threads bc IRC, but many slack channels live on threads, doing a book club where half the people are on blogs and half on slack, be fun if I dropped my link I get all the threaded comments, make it THREAD specific attached to the permalink of first post
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@mxbck @sonniesedge what's your blog running on these days? Are you hosting your own webmention endpoint? (twitter.com/_/status/1096823062241136640)
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Zegnat [jgmac1106]: how would you inform everyone on the slack of that fact that the messages will now end up published though?
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Zegnat I do think it is a super interesting way to keep track of a comment thread, don’t get me wrong. I just think putting it on public URLs just for simulating webmentions is the wrong tech.
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Zegnat Instead maybe make a Slack app that transforms a channel into a Microsub server so you can read it in your reader instead of in Slack. That seems closer to the actual use model
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@t73fde ↩️ @jgmac1106 Maybe I should revive my own project to enhance it with #webmentions etc ;) (twitter.com/_/status/1096824720509542401)
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[jgmac1106] but trying to bridge folks who are opn slack and and on slack and blogs. I can say "You are joining my bookclub, all posts are considered CC 0 and we use webmentions and micropub for syndication
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[jgmac1106] if you want irl example join @weareopen Book Club on Digital Minimalism
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snarfed chrisaldrich Zegnat: re email, https://indieweb.org/email#Webmention
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GWG swentel, yes it does support multiple files
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swentel GWG, ok cool, coming to next Indigenous release, just added multiple support to Drupal implementation.
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GWG swentel, have a question... if the author is only a URL, does Indigenous display it? It seems to use New
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GWG Just a mystery type Avatar
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GWG Together shows the domain in the same scenario
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swentel GWG, hmm, you only send a url then on the author property, instead of a full object ?
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GWG swentel, sometimes
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swentel GWG, ah, right, I'm always asuming an object
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GWG swentel, sometimes the source does that
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GWG I am adding code to try and add more in the background, but it still should fall back gracefully
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swentel right, I can fix that
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swentel and yes, default, there's an avatar always
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swentel I'm not great in UI's :)
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GWG But in a channel, I can't tell which feed I am looking at.
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swentel right, because you now also don't have a name or url
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swentel if I have a url, but no name I display it where the name is printed
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swentel but for the case of author only being, I need to fix my parsing
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swentel s/being/being an url
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swentel opens an issue
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GWG I am fixing it on my end too. To add the extra info
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GWG swentel I wouldn't be able to talk you into #133, would I? That would be fun to demo in Austin
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swentel GWG, when is austin ?
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GWG A week from today
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GWG I have the query working now
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swentel right
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swentel you might be in luck
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swentel all alone this week :)
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GWG https://github.com/indieweb/micropub-extensions/issues/6
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Loqi [dshanske] #6 Query for Location/Venue
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GWG Me too
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swentel ok, so I need to look into to geo->name
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GWG Yes, it would be the first implementation. And a great demo.
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GWG I don't think anyone has ever demoed indigenous for Android.
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swentel GWG, so I then send 'location' as a property in the micropub post ?
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swentel or h-addr with the coordinates too ?
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swentel let me check what I send now first
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GWG You send a geo coordinate
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GWG If I remember correctly.
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swentel yes
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swentel location: geo:123,123,alt
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swentel and also location-visibility (but that's unrelated)
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swentel so
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swentel now there's a name textfield
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swentel which can be prepopulated by that query
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swentel or you can something in it yourself
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swentel s/can/can type
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GWG Yes, but can you send the name and the coordinates?
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swentel sure
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swentel but where does the name go ?
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swentel different property? 'location-name' or so ?
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GWG https://indieweb.org/location#How_to_determine_the_location_of_a_microformat
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GWG Micropub for WordPress supports a location property with nested properties
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swentel ok, I'll have to look at the code there
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GWG https://github.com/indieweb/wordpress-micropub/blob/master/includes/class-micropub-endpoint.php#L775
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GWG I can always change it to recognize another scheme
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GWG It currently recognizes a location property with a nested geo and a label
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swentel so, this should be fine right:
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swentel $post['location']['geo'] = 'geo:123,123,alt';
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swentel $post['location']['name'] = 'name';
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swentel ?
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GWG But yes, I can issue a PR for that as it should support it
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swentel ok, should be able to code that relatively quickly
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GWG http://microformats.org/wiki/h-adr
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swentel will add a fake response in my controller :)
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GWG Wait, it should be label
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GWG Not name
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swentel ah
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swentel ok
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GWG Because it is an h-adr
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GWG Even though it doesn't have the address elements, it could
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GWG It should be label in my query too then
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GWG Otherwise it is a venue
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GWG I'll fix that today
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GWG Thanks swentel. That will make a fun demo
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swentel ok, I'll get on it an half an hour
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swentel I'll ping you with a post example to make sure it's fine
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[eddie] Hmm interesting so the idea mentioned in IndieWeb about webmention to IRC bridge. The chat logs do have a webmention endpoint via webmention.io
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[eddie] !tell aaronpk does Loqi actually use this repo? Or is this just extracted from what Loqi does use? https://github.com/aaronpk/Slack-IRC-Gateway
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi [aaronpk] Slack-IRC-Gateway: Bridge Slack rooms to IRC channels
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[eddie] !tell aaronpk Essentially I’m wondering if I forked this and either added a webmention.io receiver into it or made a completely separate Webmention.io-IRC-Gatewat
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[eddie] !tell aaronpk I could either build it as it’s own thing and try to run it on AWS lambda so it doesn’t need a server hosting it or I could try to add it into the existing project so it could run on the same server you’re already running it on
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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sknebel [eddie]: note that that's only one direction
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[eddie] That’s all that’s needed
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sknebel then I misunderstood what the idea is
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[eddie] Webmention into IRC with a username being [domain.com]
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[eddie] Gotcha, the idea I’m talking about is you add the chat logs into a Social Reader, write a reply on your own website and send a webmention to the logs, then the webmention is turned into an IRC message
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[jgmac1106] https://github.com/mapkyca/KnownIRC
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Loqi [mapkyca] KnownIRC: IRC Syndication plugin for Known
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[jgmac1106] ahhh a slow read of logs
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[jgmac1106] understand now eddie
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[eddie] Hmm somehow Loqi knows what messages from IRC should be sent to Slack and which should t
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[jgmac1106] I like it, then no opening slack to read back or installing matrix
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[eddie] Yep, exactly
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[jgmac1106] though are chat logs marked up as h-entries?
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[eddie] They are
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sknebel [eddie]: ahh. not sure if that works well with delays etc, but yeah, the slack bridge code probably has some parts then
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[jgmac1106] delay doesn't matter, more for scrollback and slow reads
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sknebel (I know some people have tried POSSE to IRC before, but didn't really seem to stick as all that useful)
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aaronpk that already exists but I turned it off
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Loqi aaronpk: [eddie] left you a message 7 minutes ago: does Loqi actually use this repo? Or is this just extracted from what Loqi does use? https://github.com/aaronpk/Slack-IRC-Gateway
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Loqi aaronpk: [eddie] left you a message 5 minutes ago: Essentially I’m wondering if I forked this and either added a webmention.io receiver into it or made a completely separate Webmention.io-IRC-Gatewat
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Loqi aaronpk: [eddie] left you a message 4 minutes ago: I could either build it as it’s own thing and try to run it on AWS lambda so it doesn’t need a server hosting it or I could try to add it into the existing project so it could run on the same server you’re already running it on
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[eddie] Oh really?
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aaronpk webmention.io has web hooks and Loqi already has a receiver for them
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[eddie] Ohhh did it not work well? Spam or something? Or was it just not used?
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aaronpk I did turn it off before a bunch of improvements to XRay, so it might work better now
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[jgmac1106] still wanna play with a websub chat environment and see if that can be done
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aaronpk also I think that was before we had the -meta channel so it was really noisy in the main channel
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aaronpk so I could turn it back on and have them only go into -meta
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[jgmac1106] but i can't rabbit hole today, can anyone tell me real quick if this looks good: <a class="p-category u-url" value="walldragons" href="https://www.instagram.com/explore/tags/walldragon/">#walldragon</a>
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sknebel [jgmac1106]: delay matters for all the people that get to puzzle what you replied to. I don't think it's a good interface for replying to people
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[eddie] I was thinking specifically about webmentions with in-reply-to
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[jgmac1106] ohh i don;t tink I would mess what works, irc and slack work bc irc and slack work, just doing spaghetti -> wall
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[eddie] I could see any non-in-reply-to going to meta but I think if it is a “reply” webmention, it could go in the same channel and should work okay
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aaronpk hm possibly yeah
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[jgmac1106] [eddie] I have done some of those manually
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[jgmac1106] not in a reader
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[jgmac1106] I want to use the same hashtag on the website but link to the hashtag on Instagram
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[eddie] I don’t think the u-url is needed
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[eddie] Value either
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[eddie] Oh never mind value is needed to remove the #
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[jgmac1106] thx eddie
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[eddie] Yeah I think without u-url it’s good to go [jgmac1106]
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sknebel <a value=""> is not a thing
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[jgmac1106] stupid instagrammers using hundreds of hashtags
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[eddie] Ohhh true sknebel
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[eddie] I didn’t think that part through
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[jgmac1106] data duh
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[jgmac1106] there is no econtent inh-product but I am using one as sometimes you need more than a summary to sell
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sknebel where does it say that e-description is a summary?
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[jgmac1106] guess it doesn't
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[jgmac1106] I only put tht meaning on description
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[jgmac1106] but still in terms of parsing a product, if such tool exists in future will be nice to have a summary and then ability to add long form
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[jgmac1106] nobody will be parsing h-prodcut so what I do doesn't really matter, but someone could build an mf2 version of @snipcart, happily set customers up with someone else geting 2.9%
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[eddie] Yeah I think e-description on h-product is essentially the same intent as e-content on h-entry
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[jgmac1106] ohh okay then what would be p-summary? that would be thign missing
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[jgmac1106] kevo.glass/store just hit buy now to see how the summary gets parsed for the shopping cart
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[jgmac1106] kevo.glass/store.html....really need to learn how you remove html
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[jgmac1106] third darn try: http://kevo.glass/Store.html
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sknebel if a summery property were added, it probably be p-summary, parallel to others
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[jgmac1106] ok thx,
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swentel GWG, ok, widget with textfield and button, show up, with some luck I can release in an hour or so ;)
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[jgmac1106] https://kevoglass.glitch.me/products/number13dragon.html
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Loqi Number 13 "Saphira" https://cdn.glitch.com/dd861f41-b47a-44b7-8b1c-8f3f19d8cf07%2FScreen%20Shot%202019-02-16%20at%203.29.41%20PM.png?1550348999346
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Zegnat (See also http://microformats.org/wiki/h-event#Properties which has summary and description.)
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Loqi [Tantek Çelik] h-event is a simple, open format for events on the web. h-event is often used with both event listings and individual event pages. h-event is one of several open microformat draft standards suitable for embedding data in HTML. h-event is the microfor...
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jacky see I found myself writing notes that are long
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jacky but that's because I haven't added full support for non-MF2 pages when I attempt to reply to them (think replying to a tweet)
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[eddie] aaronpk wondering if there is a solution to the chat’s /today feed. The chat app is built so that it returns the current day’s url in the Location header
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jacky it's a slightly purist stance (but def a limiting one)
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[eddie] xray’s feed discovery on chat’s /today url and gets the Location header and returns URLs that are for the current day rather than a relative date
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[eddie] Aperture uses xray and this ends up subscribing to the current date’s url rather than an evergreen feed url
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[eddie] I’m not sure where you see the issue, with xray or with the indieweb chat logs
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[eddie] I think the two solutions are: adding a mode where xray upon finding mf2 returns the original requested url rather than the Location header url
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[eddie] Or adding a /recent feed to the indieweb chat that actually contains a feed of the day’s stuff dynamically rather than redirecting
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[eddie] jacky I’m confused: what do you mean “full support for non-mf2 pages when replying”
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[eddie] I’m not sure how that ends up with “writing long notes@
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jacky so I can't like an article from the Verge but I can like a post on your site
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[eddie] Hmmm that doesn’t seem right
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jacky since I can't, I end up just "replying" as a plain note with quotations / highlights of parts I'd reply to
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jacky well it's part of my site looking to generate a reply context when it responds to a page
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jacky I have some logic sketched out to fallback to OpenGraph and <link> info if it doesn't find anything
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sknebel [eddie]: I think that'S an an open issue against aperture somewhere :D
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aaronpk hm seems like the 301 vs 302 distinction should apply here
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aaronpk aperture should keep the "today" URL as the one being subscribed to because it got a temporary redirect
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sknebel [eddie]: do you remember this one? :D https://github.com/aaronpk/Aperture/issues/63
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Loqi [EdwardHinkle] #63 Can't subscribe to feed urls that redirect
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aaronpk ha
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[eddie] sknebel I do. I did more investigation today and realized it’s not aperture’s fault
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sknebel ah, ok
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[eddie] That it was either xray or the chat site and I didn’t know which was turkey at fault
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sknebel xray, since the logs send 302
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[eddie] Jacky reply context shouldn’t affect what someone can post
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[eddie] What is reply context?
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Loqi A reply context is the display of what a reply post is in reply to, including linking to that original post with in-reply-to markup, showing some amount of that original post like author name, icon, summary / ellipsed content, and datetime published https://indieweb.org/reply-context
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aaronpk the fallback of reply context should always be just the URL you're replying to
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[eddie] jacky take a look at this as well: https://indieweb.org/reply-context#Minimal_text_reply_contexts
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[eddie] Ways to use the url to present a little more info in certain cases
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jacky hm okay
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jacky I _kinda_ don't like the auto-magic expansion of silo-specific links
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GWG Eddie, why do you on your all page, have a top level h-card and a feed with an author property?
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GWG It confused my code
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swentel GWG, I'm sending this
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swentel geo:51.019903,3.7716038,0.0;name=Melle Vogelhoek
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swentel that should be fine too right ?
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swentel (can't get nested objects posted, p3k::Request doesn't allow me to do that)
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swentel (at least at my side)
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ Touch a bit too many parts for my skill, think we should plan on a future where POSSE to silo doesn't touch core, I would want null post to have all webmentions in comments then null-1 until last, the twitter or Bridgy plugin to thread (does… https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2019/02/16/mapkyca-touch-a-bit-too-many-parts (twitter.com/_/status/1096894053864665088)
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GWG swentel, yes, that should be doable
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GWG I can parse it
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swentel ok, then I'm done :)
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GWG I believe geo uri allows it
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swentel yep, found on https://indieweb.org/Micropub
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swentel well, not sure actually if name is in the spec, let me see
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swentel you can add additional params though it seems
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GWG swentel, basically if someone implements it correctly, they should just ignore what they don't need
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GWG I will implement support for the name parameter
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GWG I need to write a unit test though
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swentel ok, committed
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swentel will release tomorrow
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GWG Gives me time to test a release
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swentel I've updated the UI a bit there
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swentel it's a bit nicer
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swentel at least I think so
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swentel next up
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swentel multiple pictures
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tw2113 random-ish question...anyone ever create an app/setup that acts as a self-hosted GoodReads app?
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swentel hmm, schmarty made something like that I think
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tw2113 honestly, i think WP would make a good possible app to utilize with some post types and everything, and add in GR api support to pull in book data :D
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swentel https://indiebookclub.biz/
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gRegorLove very very basic read posts; wouldn't call it a full Goodreads replacement :)
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swentel hmm yeah .. :)
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gRegorLove Great if you want to keep track of to-read, reading, finished reading though, and publish them on your own site via Micropub
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gRegorLove No friending or social aspects
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swentel ah, not schmarty, sorry :)
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gRegorLove np
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gRegorLove Funny you mention it, I'm working on publishing the open source today.
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gRegorLove what is goodreads?
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Loqi Goodreads is a silo for keeping track of books, reviews, and reading progress https://indieweb.org/Goodreads
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tw2113 honestly it wouldn't be difficult to set up a post type to store each book and then the rest would be either taxonomies or meta data for current status, etc
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gRegorLove WordPress Post Kinds plugin supports the read posts from indiebookclub
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tw2113 and i have some stuff started already for at least showing API data https://github.com/tw2113/Goodreads-In-WordPress
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GWG I could stand to improve read posts
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GWG As someone who is interested in bibliographic data... I have some ideas I have yet to implement
KartikPrabhu and [jgmac1106] joined the channel
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[jgmac1106] when does a read post become an h-review rather than an h-entry?
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GWG [jgmac1106]: Lots of debate there
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gRegorLove I lean towards "never," separate posts.
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gRegorLove Finished reading: https://gregorlove.com/2019/02/finished-reading-artemis-by-andy/ Then a review: https://gregorlove.com/2019/02/review-artemis/
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Loqi [gRegor Morrill] Finished reading: Artemis by Andy Weir (ISBN 9780553448146)
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gRegorLove The mf properties on read posts are very much experimental and will likely converge on something that works for reads, listens, watch
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gRegorLove Whereas h-review is better established and those properties probably don't make sense there
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[jgmac1106] makes sense to me gRegorLove