#dev 2019-02-18

2019-02-18 UTC
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aaronpk Pixelfed is like mastodon where you shouldn't need a new account for it. In theory if yo user up bridgy fed on your site then people can follow your photos from pixelfed. I'm not sure how well this works in practice yet tho.
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[kevinmarks] !tell kartikprabhu https://kartikprabhu.com/articles/marginalia is giving me no text in chrome
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KartikPrabhu [kevinmarks]: happens with my entire site once I switched to using CSS grid
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[kevinmarks] that seems unfortunate
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KartikPrabhu if you click around a bunch of times so it selects some text, or press F12 to bring up dev tools it will appear!
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[kevinmarks] I toggled Mercury Reader and now I have it without CSS, which is amusing
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KartikPrabhu Chrome's CSS grid is very borken
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[jgmac1106] Yeah finding Chrome doing weirdest things with Grid
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KartikPrabhu well I'll fix it when all borwsers switch to the Blink engine ;)
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KartikPrabhu Firefox++
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Loqi Firefox has 1 karma in this channel over the last year (2 in all channels)
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[kevinmarks] I've been using simple grids with the grid-template-areas: map thing
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@alexbuzzbee I've set up #IndieAuth on my personal site. Now on the two sites that support it I can log in using myself as an IDP. (twitter.com/_/status/1097325846988292098)
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@jgmac1106 There isn't an easy way for all the blogs of #OER to talk. We can build really cool classroom spaces using post types like read, listen, watch, reply and bookmark. can credential using webmention badges. can export xAPI with a tiny bit of work (https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/1fMvvN) (twitter.com/_/status/1097365437136990211)
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[dhewya16] [dhewya16] set the channel topic: IndieWeb development-focused chat - logs at https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/today - bridged with #indieweb-dev in IRC
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ bunch of of us working on #IndieWeb suite tools for activist crowd. I can publish events, RSVP, and connect with webmentions not on Facebook. (https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/Pnxpz) (twitter.com/_/status/1097461627216113666)
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[adam] Can I ask how some people model webmentions in their platforms / sites? In particular I’m thinking about being able to build threads
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[adam] I reply to someone on Twitter -> I can show their tweet and my reply. if someone replies to me, Bridgy sends me that, I display that, all good. but I reply to _that_, that’s going in a separate note
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[kevinmarks] several people show a reply context above so you can see what the in-reply-to is pointing at
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[kevinmarks] others show a full thread, but that requires more notification cooperation
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[kevinmarks] the mastodon markup for it is pretty good
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[kevinmarks] what is reply context?
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Loqi A reply context is the display of what a reply post is in reply to, including linking to that original post with in-reply-to markup, showing some amount of that original post like author name, icon, summary / ellipsed content, and datetime published https://indieweb.org/reply-context
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[kevinmarks] what is salmention?
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Loqi Salmention is a protocol extension to Webmention to propagate comments and other interactions upstream by sending a webmention from a response to the original post when the response itself receives a response (comment, like, etc.) https://indieweb.org/Salmention
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[kevinmarks] not sure if people are still actively working on that
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@tomcritchlow ↩️ Yeah - tough to build and manage though. Next I want to build webmention into the wiki for a slightly social experience. http://Are.na does a pretty good job here but it makes me nervous not being self hosted (twitter.com/_/status/1097495991278845953)
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[adam] It should be possible by chaining in-reply-tos in theory. Bridgy is already doing the original post discovery for me
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[adam] It’s really just about showing the replies underneath replies - more of a display issue than a functional one
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ We can send webmention badges from the #IndieWeb wiki. Sometimes a little recognition goes a long way in supporting gardeners.Might be something to fool around with. (https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/1plbgB) (twitter.com/_/status/1097497448006725632)
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[jgmac1106] [adam] yes my Known site during in educational twitter chat
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[jgmac1106] also have some WordPress examples...ohh crapppp.forgot I need to fix my redirects....
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[jgmac1106] that nav aint perfect could benefit from rel prev and next: https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2019/02/16/story-of-jamaican-music
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Loqi [Greg McVerry] Probably the best four disc box set in history. Tells the story of a music, movement, and people over a four album set.
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[jgmac1106] but if you click through the comment permalinks all the webmentions are changed. Wish the genesis post displayed them and they stacked
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[jgmac1106] no it would be first post with all threaded webmentions down to to the last one
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[adam] I suppose that’s a challenge, how do you find the first post? And also filter replies that branch out
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[adam] I guess first post is the either the one you’ve viewing or the the one that you’re viewing is in reply to... people can climb further if needed
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[adam] It’d be nice to solve this in a way that others could copy. If I do something arbitrary it’s only so helpful
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[jgmac1106] It does thread on Twitter perfectly though
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[jgmac1106] ...if I remember...takes 7 clicks to accomplish, want it down to one
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Zegnat That is where salmentions would come in: when you get a comment and add it to your page, you send a new webmention to the thing you were replying to so they can also come and fetch it
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[jgmac1106] and this solves discover first post issue
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[jgmac1106] its a different button]
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[jgmac1106] zegnat or any php wizards would love an eye on this https://gist.github.com/jgmac1106/fc680e2bf6436a37a3fce699b81e9a9b its really my first attempt with php
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[jgmac1106] I always edited around it not the php itself
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@tomcritchlow ↩️ @jgmac1106 Thanks - been trying to get my head around webmentions for a while and still haven't figured it out.... (twitter.com/_/status/1097500872224002048)
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Zegnat The PHP there seems fine, it really doesn’t do a whole lot other than write whatever got posted into HTML.
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@jgmac1106 I need to play Battleship with my son but here is an example of a webmention badge form the wiki back to my blog: https://indieweb.org/toolbuilder-badge-jgmac1106 and then displayed: https://archive.jgregorymcverry.com/badges/ think there is mad potential for community and wikis with webmention… https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2019/02/18/i-need-to-play-battleship-with-my (twitter.com/_/status/1097501944774569991)
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jgmac1106 so how do I put that into an HTML page?
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GWG Morning all
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GWG I am thinking of making an unexpected change in my lineup
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Zegnat jgmac1106: you are putting it in HTML, but I am guessing you mean something different.
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Zegnat Do you mean saving it as a separate HTML document?
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jgmac1106 no that is what I mean, just didn’t know if it worked. I can just drop that in do I make <form action="guestbook.php" match the hml page it would be on?
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jgmac1106 I want both the forms and all the entries on the same page
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jgmac1106 a basic single page guestbook, maybe I should just do this in javascript
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jgmac1106 today’s mission was to try and just write the files, sounds like I got that part done
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jgmac1106 so thanks for looking at it for me
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Zegnat I am still not clear what you want to do. Neither PHP nor JavaScript is going to automatically store any data. If you want the form to be submitted and then stored on the server, you will need to have server-side storage code
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[jgmac1106] I see thank you, now I have tomorrow's task to learn. Thx for looking at the templates
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[jgmac1106] and now i have to give up my computer for Carmen San Diego...PESOS DOS save files somehow
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[tantek] We really should add some sort of size reporting to IndieWebify.me tests of home page, post permalink etc
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aaronpk Interesting idea
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GWG I had to change one line in my location code, and I felt bad about sending out an update just for that to everyone, so I'm building a feature.
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[tantek] also for IndieWebify.me, # of first-level additional HTTP requests (i.e. requests you can discern by mere source inspection, e.g. all link rel-stylesheet, img src, object data, iframe src etc.)
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GWG Am I better off, I wonder, finally building venues or building anonymous zones?
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Zegnat Hmm, this CMS looks interesting. The page suggests to me the CMS pages are generated based on the HTML rather than the other way around. https://www.vapid.com/
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[tantek] what is an anonymous zone?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "anonymous zone" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "anonymous zone is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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jacky another CMS option https://www.sanity.io/
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jacky (I really like the site's use of space)
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dougbeal GWG: I really want venues ;)
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GWG Hides actual location automatically if within a radius
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[tantek] what is a geofence
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "geofence" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "geofence is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[jgmac1106] !tell eddie what am I missing to be able to post images with Indigenous iOS on Known https://blog.kevo.glass, the image icon greyed out
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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GWG tantek, yes. It is geofencing I was talking about earlier.
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[tantek] what is geofencing
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "geofencing" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "geofencing is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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GWG Geofencing is a virtual geographic boundary that triggers actions when entering/leaving it.
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Loqi ok
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GWG So, I want my site to automatically hide my exact location when I post from Home and just show the word Home
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GWG So, I can implement that either as a geofence around a single point... I would call that a zone
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GWG Simple implementation
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aaronpk Flickr has this
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GWG Or the more complex venue...
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GWG I have been avoiding writing venues
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GWG But if I write these geofenced zones, they would conflict with venues later the way I designed the features in my head
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GWG One would be an option/setting, the other a data structure
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GWG So that is my dilemma
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GWG Do I build the simple feature or not?
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GWG Especially since I have been to talking about the more complex one for a while.
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aaronpk I don't really see why those conflict
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[eddie] !tell jgmac1106 if the image icon is grayed out that probably means you don’t have a Media Endpoint. That reminds me I need to add non-media endpoint functionality in the near-ish future
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi [eddie]: [jgmac1106] left you a message 1 hour ago: what am I missing to be able to post images with Indigenous iOS on Known https://blog.kevo.glass, the image icon greyed out
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GWG aaronpk, so, you'd implement two features that work differently that track locations?
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donpdonp as an aside, id really like it if there were an open database for 'venues'.
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aaronpk openstreetmap?
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donpdonp yea thats prob the best option. i get the feeling its not particularly complete, but usable.
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aaronpk GWG I just mean that it sounds like you can do both, I dont see why they have to be mutually exclusive or two separate features
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GWG aaronpk, they don't need to be
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GWG That's the problem. If I build the geofencing into the venue concept, then it is neater, but if I build it separately, it is simpler to implement just the geofencing
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aaronpk I think I have a fix for the aperture bug that I created last week
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aaronpk probably should not deploy this from the plane again tho
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aaronpk on to a different project
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aaronpk css is so hard
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aaronpk I also keep running into this problem with author h-cards
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aaronpk I often want the photo to be a sibling element of the name in order to get the CSS to work right
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aaronpk I can usually pull it off with some "clever" floats and negative margins but that feels fragile and wrong
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KartikPrabhu flexbox?
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[tantek] I hear JS makes CSS easier 😉
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KartikPrabhu :|
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[tantek] aaronpk do you have a rough sketch of what you're trying to do?
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[tantek] like what aspects are you trying size / align across?
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aaronpk KartikPrabhu: I think flexbox is exactly what doesn't work in this case
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aaronpk https://media.aaronpk.com/Screen-Shot-2019-02-18-14-45-05-4kXx0IcVoy.jpg
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aaronpk obvs the date shouldn't be inside the h-card, but a flexbox solution would cause that
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[tantek] where should the date go?
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aaronpk I got this to work with float:left and a negative margin on the image
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aaronpk the date is the dt-published so it needs to be a child of the h-entry not the h-card
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: so you want the positioning to be as in the screeshot but not have the dt-published inside the h-card?
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aaronpk correct
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[tantek] ahhh interesting
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: this is probably from your site yes?
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aaronpk yes
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aaronpk the same pattern applies on my "like" posts which I am now trying to recreate for all my posts, where the author photo hangs off the left of the text https://aaronparecki.com/2019/01/21/4/
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aaronpk it seems like a flexbox layout would make more sense but I need the photo and name to be in the same h-card element
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KartikPrabhu CS grid with display:contents on the h-card should work
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KartikPrabhu but that depends on how much nesting you are doing with <div>s
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[tantek] "photo hangs off the left of the text" I think needs float. or grid with some negative bottom margin
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aaronpk if I describe it that way yeah but if you look at it it's really a two column layout
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KartikPrabhu [tantek]: I think grid has the ability to hang without negative margins
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[tantek] so maybe grid then
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[tantek] I thought you could put grid-items inside a grid at different "levels" of the markup nested inside the grid
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KartikPrabhu [tantek]: oh no!
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aaronpk I do really need to get better at cssgrid. I don't really have a good understanding of it
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KartikPrabhu Grid only lays out direct children in the Grid layout
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[tantek] maybe I am thinking of subgrid
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KartikPrabhu yes, which is not a thing yet :P
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KartikPrabhu I work around it using display:contents but that has some side-effects with nesting and fragments
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aaronpk now let's see if I can cram a full h-card into just an img tag
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aaronpk er, <a><img></a>
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KartikPrabhu lol
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[grantcodes] Oh, new version of the postrchild bot is up. Not sure how well it works, but it is a bit smarter now 😄
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[tantek] aaronpk you can definitely do that
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[tantek] http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2#hyperlinked_person_image
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aaronpk oh dear, I think the php parser is swapping the order of things
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sknebel ?!
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aaronpk lemme make a small test case
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aaronpk https://pin13.net/mf2/?id=20190218230751448
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aaronpk the h-card gets put after the plain URL value
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gRegorLove I think there's an issue for that
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sknebel yep
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aaronpk I will fix my markup to not include the redundant h-card anyway
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sknebel https://github.com/microformats/php-mf2/issues/212
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Loqi [sknebel] #212 wrong order of property values (if nested object is present?)
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KartikPrabhu wait when did that plain url become a thing!?
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sknebel ?
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KartikPrabhu oh wait nvm
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KartikPrabhu has forgotten parsing rules now
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swentel Hmm, do we have a service somewhere that would return me the author of a url ? specifically, I need the author main image. I don't want to write a mf2 parser in java :(
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aaronpk ah cool
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[tantek] what is xray
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Loqi XRay is an open source API that returns structured data for a URL by parsing microformats and following other indieweb algorithms, and is part of the p3k suite of applications https://indieweb.org/XRay
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swentel hmm that would give me a feed, but, to be me more specific, I need the h-card for the owner of the site/url
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swentel I guess I could loop over that json, but not ideal
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GWG swentel, what for?
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swentel GWG, revamping the Indigenous UI. With a drawer, which shows the author info at the top (a bit like gmail)
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[tantek] swentel pretty sure XRay will give you authorship info
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GWG swentel, the new Gmail for Android?
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aaronpk swentel: is the microsub server not giving you enough info?
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swentel GWG, a bit like this: https://postimg.cc/JDBb4kJx/2dd18f98
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aaronpk that kind of thing was supposed to be left up to the microsub server to avoid exactly the problem you said "I don't want to write a mf2 parser in java"
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GWG I wasn't, but I fixed that on the back end
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swentel aaronpk, that's totally fine. See the screenshot. I want to display more information about the account/url you are authenticated with (name, author, image)
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aaronpk ah sorry slow internet here
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swentel heh no worries :)
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aaronpk omg this is worse than medium
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aaronpk why does an image sharing website need to send me notifications
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swentel lol
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KartikPrabhu I asked the same thing
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GWG swentel, why can't you query the backend for that?
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aaronpk ah I see what you're doing! that should actually be part of the indieauth flow
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aaronpk the indieauth server should be able to give you that info
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swentel mm yeah, makes sense
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GWG aaronpk, how?
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aaronpk there are two places I would add this in the flow. the step that returns you the token currently also returns the "me" url, and that's a good place to also return a full h-card
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aaronpk second, the token endpoint can return the h-card when it's queried using a token, since it also currently returns the "me" url given a token
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aaronpk this is basically equivalent to openid connect's "userinfo" endpoint so there's precedent here
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GWG I am happy to implement that
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swentel mm yeah, that would help, and it makes sense to ask the indieauth server indeed
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GWG Is it best in both places or just one?
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aaronpk I think both, not sure yet
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aaronpk apps that are doing purely login, not getting a token, will only talk to the authorization endpoint, so they'd need it from there
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aaronpk or actually
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aaronpk this is more like the "profile" scope in openid connect
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aaronpk needs some more thought
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aaronpk but basically the two use cases (login only, vs getting a token for micropub/microsub stuff) need to be able to get that info somehow
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GWG aaronpk, need to look up the profile scope then
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aaronpk yeah that might be the way to go
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GWG A scope?
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GWG I would imagine you don't always want to share as much
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aaronpk yeah, depends on whether name + photo are considered something people may not want to share with the site they're logging in to
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aaronpk (additional profile fields are treated separately in openid connect, like email and address info, so should also be separate here too)
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GWG aaronpk, varies doesn't it?
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aaronpk well it's only important if someone wants to be able to choose on an app-by-app basis which apps get to see that info
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aaronpk if you never want to share that with any apps then your server can just never return the info
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aaronpk (e.g. it becomes a server config issue not a spec issue)
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GWG aaronpk, seems easy enough to implement
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aaronpk yes should be
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aaronpk i'll have to add a microformats parser and h-card finder to tokens.indieauth.com so that it can do it for people's arbitrary sites, but when a site has a built-in indieauth provider it should be straightforward
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GWG aaronpk, will you have a profile scope?
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aaronpk probably not since my name and photo are public