#dev 2019-02-19

2019-02-19 UTC
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GWG aaronpk: I figure I'm safe for anything WordPress already leaks...
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GWG https://boffosocko.com/wp-json/wp/v2/users/
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aaronpk lol as long as that's always public sure
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GWG aaronpk: By default, it is.
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GWG You can restrict it by plugin.
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GWG aaronpk: What would the property be in the return?
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GWG For consistency? I'm taking notes
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aaronpk don't know yet
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GWG I've made a note to implement. Because if swentel wants it for Indigenous, I use Indigenous...
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swentel well, it'd be a nice touch :)
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GWG swentel: I told you. Anything you implement, I'll try to implement
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[jgmac1106] interesting challenge to nest this without breaking the h-card wondering and not using a background img
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Loqi [jgmac1106]: [eddie] left you a message 2 hours, 17 minutes ago: if the image icon is grayed out that probably means you don’t have a Media Endpoint. That reminds me I need to add non-media endpoint functionality in the near-ish future
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GWG The WordPress plugins will support, to the extent I can, anything Indigenous for Android supports, because I am a user of that app.
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[jgmac1106] no rush eddie Known installed on homescreen is a decent PWAish like space....except the stupid source code view on mobile
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swentel GWG, I almost have it in pure java now, so no rush yet
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GWG Returning data is always easy
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swentel I have multiple images upload working too now
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swentel but need to work on the presentation there
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swentel which why I decided to just overhaul the complete ui :)
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swentel I should probably do babysteps
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GWG swentel: Android has design concepts...so you can just, as you thought, copy.
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Loqi definitely
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swentel oh, yes, this drawer thing now is from a standard activity I can just add in android studio
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swentel just need to fill in the data
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GWG Tell me if there is anything I can do.
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GWG User wise
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GWG swentel: Look at Google News.
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GWG That wouldn't be a bad model, the Android app, for this.
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swentel I guess I need the most inspiration for a better workflow/UI for creating posts. Alignment and styling of input elements, not not so happy anymore with that part
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swentel anyway
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swentel it's way pas bedtime
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swentel past
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swentel enough experimenting for today :)
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swentel later!
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[jgmac1106] Best first guess. Could use flexbox for datetime but if I am thinking 2-D I alw3try to stay in Grid
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[jgmac1106] That is pretty fragile though, but should allow you to keep the h-card in a single div can't use a ul without a background img that I know
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jgmac1106 ohh forgot no imgs from slack in irc
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[tantek] KartikPrabhu, from a visual design perspective, I think the key is to design each piece like a visual building block, that can snap/align with other pieces
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[tantek] (carrying here from #indieweb discussion)
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KartikPrabhu the problem is whether a post is a reply-context or a reply or a stand-alone depends on the context. CSS does not have such context scopes unless you do other things
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[tantek] I'm talking visual design not CSS. Once you get a visual building blocks design figured out, from that we can figure out the CSS.
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk has the visual building blocks. the CSS implmentation is the problem
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[tantek] Not really. It’s not clear what the necessary points of alignment are among the visual building blocks, not what they actually are
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[tantek] Hard to solve a puzzle if you don’t know what the individual pieces look like nor how many of them there are
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GWG Does anyone use more complex logic on their POSSE to Twitter than defaulting to yes or defaulting to no?
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[tantek] yes
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GWG Can you describe it?
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[tantek] I think roughly: POSSE everything to Twitter except: if it's a reply to Github and has no in-reply-to a twitter URL, OR it's a /like without a like-of a twitter URL
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aaronpk I only posse notes when selected manually, and i automatically posse likes and replies always
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mblaney following up on the discussion about indieauth and multi-user sites last week, I just added that to unicyclic.com and logged into the wiki with only the domain.
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aaronpk oh nice!
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aaronpk and your wiki identity i assume included the full path?
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mblaney oh yes, should've made that clearer :-)
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aaronpk Awesome
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mblaney It's actually improved for the previous case too, because I have a per account setting to specify if you want to always use https for your account.
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mblaney so I can check that when returning the new url too, before I was just using whatever came in.
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jacky just saw this by dustyweb https://gitlab.com/spritely/golem/
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jacky interesting use of magnet links / DHT to spread info but still friendly to the Web (in a way)
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swentel morning
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Loqi guten morgen
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@hugoroyd @voxpelli I notice the webmentions endpoint have some problems with twitter profile pics lately e.g. https://hroy.eu/posts/UserDataManifesto2dot0/#webmentions ideas to fix this? (twitter.com/_/status/1097828636508467200)
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[jgmac1106] okay got the guestbook database built now to see if I can correctly store data on the server and then publish it to the web....without losing days to learning
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Zegnat “database”? That almost sounds like overkill
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[schmarty] [jgmac1106] sqlite could be good for that. single-file database great for small data sets.
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ webmentions work to build your commonplace book: https://indieweb.org/commonplace_book . Rather than forums or Twitter you capture helpful lessons on a #DoOO https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2019/02/19/reclaimhosting-i-set-up-a-database In this post you see the chain of interactions between myself and @Reclaimhosting. (https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/OWLRg) (twitter.com/_/status/1097852033946636288)
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[jgmac1106] I have no idea what i am doing
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[jgmac1106] just trying too keep learn a bit each day. Now have tomorrow's lesson
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[jgmac1106] but it is for an ecommerce business so a database ain't out of the question in terms of scope
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[jgmac1106] but for my website yeah, that does make way more sense
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Zegnat Or if it is just HTML files being created, store the plain HTML files. Also means you need no PHP to run when someone tries to visit it
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Zegnat But that will depend on your scope and what degree of dynamic generation you need.
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[schmarty] aww yeah. i am all about scripts that just write a new block of HTML into an existing page, haha.
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Zegnat I am happy to talk you through some PHP if you are interesting, [jgmac1106]
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[jgmac1106] zegnat knew you would but wanted to wrap my head around the basics, " all about scripts that just write a new block of HTML into an existing page," this is all I want
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[jgmac1106] "just HTML files being created, store the plain HTML files. Also means you need no PHP to run when someone tries to visit " this is what I need to learn then
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[jgmac1106] https://gist.github.com/jgmac1106/fc680e2bf6436a37a3fce699b81e9a9b is what I did
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[schmarty] jgmac1106 you're gonna want to add a step to sanitize the user input before putting it into an SQL statement (or storing it anywhere).
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[jgmac1106] but I am out of learning time today, need to go transition over to teaching, will be doing a lot of webmention badges today
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[jgmac1106] .oooh right I only did on the HTML form
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[jgmac1106] htmlspecialchars
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[schmarty] if your host has mysqli you should consider using that for prepared statements.
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[jgmac1106] but I might just skip the database for now and do the HTML and have zegnat teach me at vHWC-Europe
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[schmarty] haha [Rose] beat me to it
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[Rose] You'll need to use prepared statements to be safe.
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Zegnat If you are going to go and do databases in PHP, this entire thing is basically mandatory reading: https://phpdelusions.net/pdo
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[Rose] PDO is excellent and easy to use.
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sknebel haha, schmarty can see the future: https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/2019-02-19#t1550584843742600 :D
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Loqi [[schmarty]] haha [Rose] beat me to it
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[Rose] Slack bridge 😉
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sknebel I know
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[schmarty] lol slack bridge temporal anomalies
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[Rose] I do like how Loqi reacts to things before they happen sometimes.
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sknebel time travelling dinosaurs? sounds about right
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[tantek] That is a bit odd
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sknebel what?
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[jgmac1106] let's stick to just getting "Or if it is just HTML files being created, store the plain HTML files. Also means you need no PHP to run when someone tries to visit it" have next goal, slow iterations,
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[schmarty] jgmac1106: should be pretty reasonable. my usual trick for this is so put a comment string in your destination file like "<!-- NEW POSTS GO HERE -->".
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[jgmac1106] Who is rose?
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[schmarty] you split on that string, then write the file back in order: everything before the comment, the comment, the new content from your template, and everything after the comment.
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Loqi https://indieweb.org/User:Rosemaryorchard.com
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Zegnat [schmarty]: yeah, that would be what I would recommend too
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@jickelsen Geeking out about the decentralized web as well as various indieweb concepts. Gonna try making a tiny profile website for myself to try implementing stuff like Webmentions for cross-website social interactions. https://aaronparecki.com/2018/06/30/11/your-first-webmention (twitter.com/_/status/1097862938273202177)
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swentel GWG, no need for h-card info yet in indieauth, I was able to get the author h-card from the url directly from java :)
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@voxpelli ↩️ The problem is that the URL changes at least when someone changes their own profile pic – my plan long term is to cache profile pictures within the endpoint. Noticed there was no issue for such a thing, so I created one: https://github.com/voxpelli/webpage-webmentions/issues/100 (twitter.com/_/status/1097893844606173185)
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@jgmac1106 Starting to see some great designs of site emerge in #edu407 like https://scsustudent2teacher.wordpress.com and https://edu407lyssmar.wordpress.com I think I need to port my academic blogger badges over to my site so I can issue some webmention badges about digital writing growth (https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/rwnN6) (twitter.com/_/status/1097897014619193345)
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@carenisreading ✌ @Reading "https://aaronparecki.com/2018/05/27/10/indieauth-twitter" http://ing.am/p/58XA (twitter.com/_/status/1097937989131489280)
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[tantek] swentel, when you say, "get the author h-card from the url directly from java" can you elaborate a bit?
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[tantek] as in, how?
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swentel [tantek], use https://github.com/kylewm/mf2j (java mf2 parser)
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Loqi [kylewm] mf2j: In development microformats2 parser for Java
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swentel parses the url used for authenticating with indieauth
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swentel when there are h-card, I find a h-card which has a name, and where the url matches the indieauth url
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swentel which allows me to show the author info then nicely :)
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swentel tested with my site and aaronpk's
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swentel works beautifully
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swentel will test some more before actual release of course, but I'm quite confident
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swentel ideally in the future, the indieauth token endpoint should return that, or maybe another action (e.g. 'profile')
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[eddie] Yeah, parsing the user's h-card works. I use my xray installation for that, but I definitely think the discussions you, GWG and aaronpk were holding yesterday is the way forward
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swentel hehe, yeah, for a moment I contemplated to temporarily run a service just for that, but that felt overkill
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[eddie] Oh yeah, definitely overkill for just the h-card parsing. I use my xray for other things so it was convenient because it was already there
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swentel [eddie], in the iOS version you also have this concept of 'custom' commands right ? Do you simple send a micropub request then ?
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[eddie] I started on them, but never got the UI finished so it was essentially just hard-wired in my copy
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[eddie] It essentially allowed you to preset a body and send a POST to an arbitrary URL
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[eddie] So it wasn't related to Micropub in particular, just webhooks
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swentel oh ok
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[tantek] anyone know if Bridgy supports posting comments to gists? e.g. https://gist.github.com/aaronpk/c40a01bd4ffb8e62dcbb9a9e1bf0759d
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[tantek] Bridgy Publish POSSEing a reply to a gist that is
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KartikPrabhu https://css-tricks.com/social-cards-as-a-service/ cards as a service, might be doable using authorship for h-cards too
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[tantek] what is a card
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Loqi A card in the context of the indieweb are small information summaries—often summaries of specific, external web pages https://indieweb.org/card
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[tantek] davidmead I used to have <article> tags and I dropped them because I couldn't find any consuming use-cases.
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jacky really?
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jacky I use them kinda liberally - when I'm scanning HTML; it's a quick indicator of where I should expect content
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jacky for me, it has been at least
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[tantek] yes really. what is the advantage of <article class="h-entry"> over <div class="h-entry"> ? what consuming tool does anything differently with those?
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[tantek] I feel similarly about <section>
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jacky I don't optimize that for the tool but for my reading and searching (if I do a view source + ctrl+f)
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[tantek] sure, I ctrl+f on h-entry for that
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jacky hmm
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aaronpk yeah i'm bored with the "but it feels nice" HTML style and only use specific tags if there is a clear consuming use case
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aaronpk show me what consuming use case treats contents in an <article> differently and then i will use it, but a vague "but it's better" isn't really useful
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[tantek] aaronpk yes I have completely done a 180 in that regard.
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[tantek] I used to try to encourage the most semantic use of any/every HTML element possible, which then required a lot of extra thinking about which element to use when.
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[tantek] Now I only encourage that within the subset of HTML elements that have a discernible impact in consuming applications. Results in a lot fewer elements to have to think about which to use when.
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swentel screen readers ?
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aaronpk some benefits of specific tags: better built-in styling by browsers with no CSS, keyboard navigation, google as a consumer of h1/h2/h3 tags showing better search results, etc
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[tantek] swentel, if you can cite screen reader documentation that specifically says what different UI they provide for <article> elements, then that would be convincing
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jacky there's https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Guide/HTML/Using_HTML_sections_and_outlines but it has that big warning at the top
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[tantek] jacky yes the outline algorithm has been dead and useless for a long time. many years
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jacky such a shame
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jacky this would be a easy way to do cross-site "reader" modes
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aaronpk first google result for screen reader article tag is https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_HTML5_article_element but that appears to be vague ambitions and doesn't actually tell me if any software uses it, plus they also then go and use 'aria-label="article"' which can apply on any element
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jacky that use of ARIA is prob a compat feature
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jacky but then that pokes a bigger hole in things
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[tantek] Basically, until screen reader or any other consuming software actually bothers to *document* which elements they actually do anything special with, I am ignoring any general vague advice about how such software "could" do something.
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[tantek] Those elements have been around for 10+ years now. If they were going to implement them, they would have by now. Lack of implementation of a standards feature for 10+ years typically is evidence the feature is useless / poorly designed and should be removed.
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swentel or, because most people don't care about them :)
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swentel I'll check with the a11y person next week in Drupal
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swentel he's blind, and using screen readers and keyboard navigation
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swentel and fixing the default core drupal markup
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swentel http://www.weba11y.com/blog/2016/04/22/screen-reader-support-for-new-html5-section-elements/ is interesting
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swentel https://a11yproject.com/posts/aria-landmark-roles/ also (especially role vs element)
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[tantek] swentel++ ooh that weba11y links is quite useful
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Loqi swentel has 23 karma in this channel over the last year (42 in all channels)
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[tantek] looks like enough reason to add nav and article to start with
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[tantek] not sure about header/"Banner" and footer/"Content Information" as announcements.
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swentel yeah I have the same feeling there
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[tantek] like would it make sense to hear "banner" around a reply-context?
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[tantek] and would it make sense to hear "Content Information" around the datetime stamp, location, tags, permalink of a post?
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swentel not sure, I'll ask next week :)
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swentel checking default templates in drupal core
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swentel so it's currently <article> <footer> metadata <footer> <div> content </div> </article>
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[tantek] odd to see footer before content in the document order
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swentel when I add the microformats, dt-published etc for instance will end up in <footer>
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swentel (yeah don't know why either)
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swentel reply-context and the reply itself would end up (in my current case) in the div element inside
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swentel author (u-photo) info also goes into <footer> element
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[tantek] I guess I could see how author info could semantically go into the footer
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[tantek] if that's really the meaning of footer then it's unfortunately named
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[tantek] TBH I'm a bit surprised to see documentation / testing of <section role=main> instead of just <main>
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[tantek] I will note that <section> without a role doesn't have any impact documented in http://www.weba11y.com/blog/2016/04/22/screen-reader-support-for-new-html5-section-elements/
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[tantek] swentel++ thanks you've now given me my one "easy" hack for this weekend at IWC Austin: https://indieweb.org/Falcon#HTML5_semantic_elements_for_accessibility
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[tantek] and then of course I'll have to blog about it
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swentel hehe cool :)
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swentel it sometimes feels weird to add a lot of extra wrappers too, or change elements
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swentel I've had to do that quite often when I was still core maintainer
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[tantek] good to know there's an actual impactful reason to do so!
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[jgmac1106] Bringing the photo reply conversation here. [davidmead] I would be very interested in photo replies with Known... Would fit right in with what I am trying to do with webmention badges