#dev 2019-02-28

2019-02-28 UTC
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[tantek] code written, now to write an issue and test it
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[tantek] and just realized I only need this code for notes / simple replies (comments) on issues, not for original issues, which I write in HTML anyway and thus no auto-tagging happens anyway. oh well, coded but not necessary for the today’s use-case
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aaronpk any other suggestions for sites to add to https://indieweb.org/IndieAuth#Supporting_Sites
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Loqi aaronpk: [tantek] left you a message 2 hours, 14 minutes ago: could you file an issue on https://github.com/microformats/h-entry/issues for u-checkin as a proposed property per http://microformats.org/wiki/h-entry#change_control? Then add it to http://microformats.org/wiki/h-entry#Proposed_Additions accordingly. Thanks!
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aaronpk !tell eddie any reason you don't use the "checkin" property on your checkins?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[tantek] maybe because it's not in the spec? 😜
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aaronpk working on it!
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[tantek] 🙂
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aaronpk ok started https://github.com/microformats/h-entry/issues/15
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Loqi [aaronpk] #15 u-checkin draft property
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[tantek] woohoo!
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Loqi 😃
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[eddie] aaronpk probably accidentally lost it when I switched from Jekyll to Node.js html.
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Loqi [eddie]: aaronpk left you a message 40 minutes ago: any reason you don't use the "checkin" property on your checkins?
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[eddie] I should probably write some tests to just run once a month and basically test each post type at a predefined post url from my site to make sure I don’t break anything
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[eddie] Throw each url through xray and see if I get the expected values
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Loqi I agree
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[eddie] Thanks Loqi!
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Loqi you're welcome
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gRegorLove What are the "follow" and "channels" scopes in Monocle? The auth flow links to /scopes but I don't see them on there.
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aaronpk i think they're described in the microsub spec?
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aaronpk yeah https://indieweb.org/Microsub-spec#Scopes
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gRegorLove Cool, just curious.
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gRegorLove I'm finally getting set up with Monocle and Aperture, not sure why I took so long
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aaronpk waiting to see if it was just a fad?
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ichoquo0Aigh9ie lol
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jacky agh
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sknebel jacky: your client has an interesting choice of alternative username?
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jacky that's the 'default' username I have for ZNC
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jacky then it adjusts depends on which network it connects to (and if it can reclaim the name; people on freenode seem to like 'jacky')
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sknebel don't you have jacky registered?
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sknebel or do people use it anyways?
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sknebel (nickserv at the very least tells people off if they use a registered name, and the owner can throw them off it at any time)
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jacky I have it registered but nickserv on here is slow
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sknebel ah ok
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Zegnat How is NickServ slow? In kicking other people off of the name? That is what GHOST is for
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jeremycherfas What is GHOST
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Loqi Ghost is an an open source blogging software project written in node.js, and also a hosted silo at https://ghost.org https://indieweb.org/Ghost
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jeremycherfas !tell zegnat please disambiguate
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Zegnat ah. Hmm. NickServ has a GHOST command that will kick everyone that is using your nick and free it up for you
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Loqi Zegnat: jeremycherfas left you a message 3 minutes ago: please disambiguate
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Zegnat But that doesn’t feel IndieWeb enough to actually be added to the page about blogging software, haha
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jeremycherfas No, but I have remembered it. Not that I will ever need it.
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Zegnat If you start a private chat with NickServ you can write HELP and it will actually tell you about it
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jeremycherfas Something else I am never likely to do.
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jeremycherfas Well, this is very vexing. Apple Podcasts is missing my two most recent episodes, but they are very definitely in my feed, and I am still 117 episodes away from some mythincal limit that Apple supposedly enforces.
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jeremycherfas But Overcast definitely has the most recent episodes.
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jeremycherfas Although Overcast has different dates for early episodes than the PubDate
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jeremycherfas Not even sure where to begin. Maybe with a direct question to Apple Podcasts.
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[jgmac1106] Apple has waaay too much control over podcasting
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@Snorremd ↩️ True, if we consider the amount of potential IndieAuth deploy targets (all the worlds Wordpress sites) the image looks far more rosy. I do think the new breed of desentralized apps/services (Mastodon, Riot/Matrix.org) should adopt IndieAuth as a good way to desentralize auth! (twitter.com/_/status/1101095273797955589)
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jeremycherfas It does have a lot of control, but I am happy that Overcast, for example, picks up the feed correctly. Don't know about the other catchers, because I don't use them. So the control Apple has is also because it is the one that most subscribers find easiest to use. It is there for everyone with an iOS device (and Windows too, I think).
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@Snorremd ↩️ I also started building an IndieAuth server in rust to try to learn the rust language with a real project. https://github.com/snorremd/rusty-cellar-door I never got around to finish it though, much because I don't use any services using IndieAuth for authentication. (twitter.com/_/status/1101096046279774209)
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Zegnat Ah, the chicken or the egg problem. People not finishing IndieAuth providers because there are no consumers, and no new consumers coming up because they don’t see enough providers
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[jgmac1106] https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2019/02/28/snorremd-just-go-to-your-website
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Loqi [Greg McVerry] @Snorremd just go to your website https://snoree.io add link to GitHub account with a rel="me" then add a link to your website on GitHub and you are done....Now you can log into all the cool #IndieWeb blogging tools. Even our web ring https://glitch...
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sknebel ugh
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sknebel a) could you please not confuse RelMeAuth and IndieAuth even more?
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sknebel b) do you really think someone who's been working on an IndieAuth server doesn't know they don't *have to* write their own?
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sknebel c) if anything, we want to *encourage* more options, not tell people it's pointless to write their own
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[jgmac1106] while I might be speaking to "one" I am also speaking to hundreds of others
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[jgmac1106] I will try to clarify
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[jgmac1106] there are layers and layers of audience not just the person you @ mention
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sknebel it looks fairly tonedeaf IMHO ot just jump at any mention of a keyword
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ You know this, since you have enough skill to spin up IndieAuth on your own server, its just neat the way RelMeAuth works when it was done, wanted to share a description for other people who may not know all the ins and out. (https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/1uBNsL) (twitter.com/_/status/1101101289314967552)
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[jgmac1106] sknebel we have been talking for half a day..I didn't just jump on that one.
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sknebel ah sorry, twitter didn't load the context for whatever reason first itme round
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sknebel sorry for jumping on it
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[jgmac1106] but I do need to learn how to say it in an elevator speech
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[jgmac1106] It isn't easy to translate RelMeAuth, IndieLogin, and IndieAuth into 280 characters ina way approachable to multiple audiences
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[jgmac1106] https://twitter.com/jennschiffer/status/1100843087633498112 entire thread
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@jennschiffer how do you prefer to "log on" to a service that's not with another service's auth (twitter.com/_/status/1100843087633498112)
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sknebel yeah, saw that once twitter could be bothered to show more :)
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[jgmac1106] messed this up something fierce: https://jgmac1106homepage.glitch.me/2toPonder.html now to track down the mistake....really made this way too hard in the original layout
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sknebel oh, all manually placed grid items?
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sknebel seems like the ones that are squashed at the left don't have a grid position and now try to automatically fill gaps?
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[jgmac1106] yeah when I was learnign Grid I needed manual conceptually...but now paying for it
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[jgmac1106] I should just scrap it and redesign it to implicit grid....adding a new show is horrible
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[jgmac1106] I need to move each item down the grid manually
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[jgmac1106] ...yeah that is what I will do....won't finish today...but its a better long term goal
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Loqi I agree
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[jgmac1106] I need to peee...actually a p..that is the problem I skipped a letter in the alphabet
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sknebel :D
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[jgmac1106] skenbel++
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Loqi skenbel has 1 karma over the last year
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[jgmac1106] thanks for the help https://jgmac1106homepage.glitch.me/2toPonder.html...now will be stuck with explicit grid for a lot longer since I figured it out
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[jgmac1106] my podcast template gets remixed a lot though I should really take the time to move to implicit grids using fr so as to elominate media queries and make adding shows easier
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sknebel I just forked your page and will play with it a bit
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[jgmac1106] yeah now with the html->rss in granary...podcasting pages got so much easier
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[jgmac1106] I have the first show as a grid embedded in the grid, but that become a first-item and then just use item for older shows...I am really excited....I stopped podcasting because of the mental weight of DRY and trying to do this manually
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[jgmac1106] just got overwhlemed every time I thought about adding a show...but everyone wants to copy my "How to use archive.org to host your podcast approach"
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[jgmac1106] skenbel on another not in the mozillian Telegram chat...everyone complaining about their email 2fa approach for mozillians.org (what replaced Persona)...so wanted to jump in but didn't but wow is 2fa across all of Mozilla properties a mess that IndieAuth could solve
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sknebel [jgmac1106]: https://witty-kilometer.glitch.me/2toPonder.html that roughly the layout you are going for?
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sknebel ah, I can just look at your fixed site :D
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sknebel [jgmac1106]: https://witty-kilometer.glitch.me/2toPonder.html really basic first step, but doesn't have hardcoded locations for individual entries anymore, but filling automatically
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sknebel with pseudo selector for the first element you maybe could even get all the cards to be exactly identical code
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sknebel nvm, broke something again :D
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sknebel now, stray </div> removed
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[jgmac1106] auto-rows with 2fr 2fr 2fr 2r, embed the grid for the "first-item", set item" to span columns or something was my thinking
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[jgmac1106] I so love CSS Grid, going to be million times easier for people to learn layout
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[jgmac1106] sknebel++
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Loqi sknebel has 42 karma in this channel over the last year (105 in all channels)
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[jgmac1106] perfect!!
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sknebel main thing was doing hte whitespace outside the grid, so you can just let the grid elements fill the spaces
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sknebel one after another
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[jgmac1106] I didnt check how you set groid-gap yet
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sknebel whitespace = the borders left and right. just used margin for now, but could of course be whatever - another grid or ...
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sknebel didn't change the grid-gap
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sknebel yeah, grid is neat
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[jgmac1106] outside the grid...now I have new technique to learn
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[jgmac1106] I usually just leave an empty grid column by leaving a 1 or 2fr
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sknebel yes, but then (as far as I know, maybe just nobody told me the trick yet) you can't let items place themselves because they don't know they shouldn't fill those spots
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[jgmac1106] this one is such a fun example of what not to do..but I love way it looks: https://edu307.glitch.me/index.html its a grid, inside a single item flexbox (why?) in random grid areas
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[jgmac1106] ....that explains so much......
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[jgmac1106] I was sticking with explicit first and then moving on to implicit then areas....to try and really understand...all the minmax and other shortcuts..bot there yet
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[jgmac1106] ...but trying to leave whitespace (as I used empty column) was always thing messing me up
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[jgmac1106] So I would often needlessly embed grids in grids or do blank column trick
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[jgmac1106] hoping to never touch a float again in my life
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[jgmac1106] sknebel what is your glitch username,? I deleted the remix button on my podcast page. Have all the pieces now for a tutorial on indieweb podcast archive.org->show post->mf2 podcast page->granary
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sknebel https://glitch.com/@sknebel
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[jgmac1106] ha ha your entire page is fixing things for me
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@calum_ryan Another great, productive evening last night @HWCLondon fixing bugs, getting stuff working with Webmentions, Indigenous, Microformats, etc.. in the excellent company of @swentel @ohhelloana @loopdouble @iamchrisburnell @voss (https://calumryan.com/note/2460) (twitter.com/_/status/1101120966749499394)
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[jgmac1106] ha no idea you could do column layouts in Grid....I need to get to work...but this is so cool
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jeremycherfas In PHP, is there a way to get the finishing position of strpos(), rather than the start? Or do I have to jump through the hoop of calculating strlen() of the target and adding that to strpos()
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cweiske strrpos
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cweiske oh, you want something different
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cweiske no, strpos + strlen
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swentel or substr with negative start ?
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swentel (not sure exactly what you want to achieve though)
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swentel oh, mm nvm
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jeremycherfas Trying to extract a string from a page. I have a unique target identifier for the start of the string and for the end. Just trying to work out how to extract it, without using grep because grep is hard. :)
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cweiske html?
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jeremycherfas Yes
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cweiske did you consider using domdocument + xpath?
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jeremycherfas Er, no.
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jeremycherfas scurries to search engine.
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cweiske https://cweiske.de/tagebuch/php-xpath-html-xhtml.htm#html
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jeremycherfas Whoa. At the moment I am getting the page content via cURL. Let me experiment.
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[kevinmarks] that does sound like something grep would do well though
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cweiske it all depends on your use case
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cweiske if it's a one-time task, use grep
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cweiske if it shall work on multiple pages today and in 2 years, use xpath
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jeremycherfas It is part of converting cleverdevil's listening script, which scrapes the OPML from Overcst, so it will need to work every day, but I do not expect Overcast to change the page structure.
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cweiske OPML is a standard, so it should not change
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cweiske still, OPML is XML, so use DomDocument + XPath
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[kevinmarks] I wrote OPML parsing a while back
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[kevinmarks] hm 15 years ago
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jeremycherfas Ah no, more complex, slightly. I can parse the OPML. That gives me the URL for a podcast episode. Now I want to extract the image URL and the content of the summary on that page.
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cweiske ah
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[kevinmarks] so the podcast feed RSS?
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jeremycherfas Sort of, but Overcast does some stuff to it.
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jeremycherfas With the DomDocument, I don't even need to cURL?
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cweiske yep
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cweiske you very seldom need curl in PHP
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cweiske file_get_contents() is able to fetch http/https
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[schmarty] jeremycherfas: i found many of the episodes in my overcast OPML export had HTML pages that are not very parseable. for now i compromised by pulling the podcast's main image from their RSS feed. in future I think i would pull down each podcast's RSS feed, match with the enclosure URL, and extract descriptions etc.
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[davidmead] crosspost with #known - I think it’s time for Known to have a ‘syndicated link’ field when you post something - Would help with manual, or after-the-fact posting for Instagram, etc. Liked this in GWG’s WP implementations
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jeremycherfas Let me read some more.
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aaronpk 1 hour until .dev domains are normal price
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Loqi I added a countdown scheduled for 2019-02-28 8:06am PST (#6498)
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jeremycherfas !tell [schmarty] Another interesting glitch is that often the original podcast page has og:description content but on the overcast page og:description is empty
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[schmarty] [jeremycherfas] overcast does a good job on their proxy pages but sometimes they lose data.
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jeremycherfas Right. I'm trying to decide whether to have a two step process. If Overcast does not have the summary information, go to the original episode and try there.
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jeremycherfas Very pleased to discover that it is easy to download and store the episode artwork.
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Loqi .dev domains are normal price
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Loqi Countdown set by aaronpk on 2019-02-28 at 7:06am PST
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jeremycherfas Think I'll quit, for today, while I am ahead.
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[jgmac1106] I paid $9 for pocketcast on Android for my history...but it isn't backfilled 😞
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[grantcodes] You can get refunds on the play store [jgmac1106]
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[grantcodes] But pocketcasts is really good
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[Rose] It is! The developers are really nice too.
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[jgmac1106] I love pocketcasr
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[jgmac1106] and they have the data...maybe... hoping over time
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eddiehinkle So looking at https://indieweb.org/The-Open-Graph-protocol and Apple's notes for iMessage previews which rely on Open Graph
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Loqi eddiehinkle: snarfed left you a message 1 week, 4 days ago: hey podcasters, we don't yet have exact audio file size (in bytes) in mf2. how should we represent that? i'm looking at converting to RSS, where it's required. more: https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/2019-02-17#t1550418872983700
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eddiehinkle iMessages requires og:title, and currently our Open Graph protocol page claims it's not required because Facebook doesn't require it
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eddiehinkle Should we just put a note in there that it is required by iMessage? or change that text to not be so flippant that it is optional
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eddiehinkle tantek: I know you feel strongly about this topic lol
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eddiehinkle Apple's iMessage Preview documentation: https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/technotes/tn2444/_index.html
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gRegorLove_ I think it falls back to <title>. Figure 1 there seems to show that.
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eddiehinkle oh! haha my title IS my domain oops
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eddiehinkle oh! haha my title IS my domain oops
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eddiehinkle oh! haha my title IS my domain oops
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eddiehinkle That's why it doesn't seem to be picking it up
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gRegorLove Apple and I think FB recommend og:title not include the site/brand name, so that can be a use-case for it.
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eddiehinkle I was seeing my domain name and thought Apple completely ignored the <title> but in my genious back when I was testing my new theme I put my domain name as my only title text
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eddiehinkle lol that would mess things up
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eddiehinkle Looks like its time to fix that up
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eddiehinkle Yep, confirmed it's optional for iMessage too so the current instructions on that page works
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@PinoBatch ↩️ You can build a traditional comment section if you're willing to moderate it. You can also add #Webmention protocol support so that when other site owners reply to your posts on their own sites, the replies show up on your site too. https://indieweb.org/Webmention (twitter.com/_/status/1101196951075385344)
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[cleverdevil] !tell [aaronpk] found a feed that Aperture doesn't seem to like - https://dixiemech.com/updates?format=RSS
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[cleverdevil] (This is a Squarespace site)
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[kevinmarks] You can launder it through unmung http://www.unmung.com/feed?feed=https%3A%2F%2Fdixiemech.com%2Fupdates%3Fformat%3DRSS
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[tantek] eddiehinkle, yes you can depend <title> instead of og:title for the iMessage use-case AFAIK. Worth documenting that (and docs you found) on /iMessage if you like!
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snarfed [tantek]: i have lots of inline ratings on eg (scroll down) https://snarfed.org/books , https://snarfed.org/beer , and most other pages linked from https://snarfed.org/lists
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snarfed er sorry wrong channel
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swentel GWG_, sending published date, only relevant for note and article I guess ?
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GWG_ swentel: Isn't it relevant for anything you are publishing?
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swentel GWG_, well, it seems weird for a reply or like for instance
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swentel (at least weird to me)
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GWG_ It is just the time and date it was posted.
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swentel mm right, I'll add it everywhere :)
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GWG_ swentel: I use the offset in the published date to change the display to show what timezone it was posted in.
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GWG_ So, for example, all my posts from Austin were GMT-6, as opposed to GMT-5, my normal timezone
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swentel right, I was going to ask that if it was necessary
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swentel as I'm currently sending Y-m-d H:i which works fine for me
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GWG_ swentel: Isn't ISO8601 Y-m-d\TH:i:sP ?
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GWG_ swentel: The reason sending timezone offset makes sense is that where you are isn't always where the server is. So, without the timezone offset, the time you posted won't match, as the server will assume the default.
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GWG_ I used to have this problem with photographs all the time when I went on trips
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swentel hmm, ok, I'll have to play with it a little
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swentel I'm in London now, and the date picker sets timezone offset to 0000 now
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swentel which I guess is right
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swentel (I hate date and time)
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GWG_ swentel: Yes. But remember, your phone syncs up with the network it is on to change the time.
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GWG_ That is a great advantage when trying to make posts.
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swentel right, but, in my case, when I send that, I still get an hour later for the post
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swentel because Drupal does strtotime, and my site is set to Europe/Brussels
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swentel that's why I didn't really care about the TZ when sending
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swentel it's of no use to me, but I'm fine sending it
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GWG_ swentel: I appreciate it. WordPress stores both a local and a gmt time string for each post. I had to add a parameter to let it identify when the post came from another location.
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GWG_ The way the Micropub plugin works is that when there is a timezone offset, it converts the time appropriately.
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swentel alright, it's in :)
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swentel hmmm
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swentel I leave it empty by default though
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swentel should I prefill with default, or send 'now' in the request?
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GWG_ swentel: Do you intend to do future posts? You would do a scheduled post by adding a published date in the future. If that isn't a feature you want to add, then just always send now with no UI.
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GWG_ If you do, then send now by default, and have a time icon allowing you to pick a future time.
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swentel So currently it's a textfield with a placeholder: "'Publish date - leave empty for 'now'" - which means sending nothing.
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swentel s/which/where 'now'
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swentel however, I guess for your case with timezones, I should really send the actual date, always right ?
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GWG_ But even with now, as I said, it would help me if it was sent.
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GWG_ swentel: Correct
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swentel ok, got it
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swentel will change that in the code
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GWG_ swentel: I started writing an entire article on Indigenousd
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GWG_ swentel: I started writing an entire article on Indigenous
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swentel ooh, looking forward to that
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GWG_ I meant, I am writing an entire article using indigenous
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swentel aaaaah hehe :)
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GWG_ I should write one about Indigenous too, though you've seen me mention it, if you follow my feed
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swentel yes I do
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Loqi it is probable
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GWG_ swentel, I endorse the product
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swentel hehe, I know
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swentel so awesome
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swentel default date works
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swentel just send in london where it's 11 pm
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swentel on my site, it already says march the 1st
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swentel which is fine for me, cool :)
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swentel pushing
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GWG_ Great
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