#dev 2019-03-05

2019-03-05 UTC
astrojuanlu[m], KartikPrabhu and snarfed joined the channel
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snarfed ok all, now that i've shipped rss *output* in granary, would anyone actually use rss *input* support? https://github.com/snarfed/granary/issues/137
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Loqi [snarfed] #137 RSS input
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snarfed eddie said he would at one point, but i'm not sure how serious he was. and i don't plan to do it unless someone actively needs it
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jgmac1106 jacky I know how none of this works but always thought if there was a way a web ring could have a token and then you publish a piece that requires that token as a key…if you were registered member of that ring you had access to the token
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jgmac1106 that way instead of having to add people to share a private post to I could share it with just one ring
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jacky the 'authorization'(?) bit, I think, can be done in a flexible fashion
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jacky I guess this is just a concept of "groups"
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jacky what is groups
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Loqi group in the context of the indieweb (also "indie group" or "indie groups") is a place where people can deliberately share content with each other, not necessarily on their own domain (though likely copied from via webmention etc.) https://indieweb.org/groups
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jacky what is private groups
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "private groups" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "private groups is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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jacky private groups is /private_group
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Loqi ok
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jacky what is private group
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Loqi A private group is a group where the posts, members, and any other content in the group is only viewable by members of the group, a common social silo feature (like on Facebook) https://indieweb.org/private_group
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jacky what is private groups
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Loqi A private group is a group where the posts, members, and any other content in the group is only viewable by members of the group, a common social silo feature (like on Facebook) https://indieweb.org/private_groups
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jacky ;)
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jacky so this is something I'm thinking about
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jacky and have been reading the relevant pages
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jacky I was going to take the cheap route and just PGP encrypt stuff via keybase's Web API
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jacky so I didn't have to hold keys
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jgmac1106 interesting
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jacky yeah and like it already supports rel=me so that's one layer of auto-discovery that can work
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jacky but that's super-specific to keybase
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jgmac1106 https://keybase.io/
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jacky yup
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jacky https://keybase.io/jackyalcine + http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fkeybase.io%2Fjackyalcine
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jgmac1106 I needed a replacement for Hangouts for the family, was going to look at telegra. May look at this instead
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jacky well it's chat only
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jgmac1106 and always on the hunt to replace the third party chat I use on my website
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jgmac1106 and I guess I was just elevetaing the cimplicity of the web ring to a private group..
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jgmac1106 but in a way I want to be a public group with private membership and public or priavte posts
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jgmac1106 so if you were a journalist group and wanted to give your “A-1 Tempeh Sauce” approval to sites that met your standards of “truthiness” they could join your ring, people flipping through the pages would know they met said criteria
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jacky I think I'd want to go the route of "owning my group"
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jacky though going the group via webring would work for larger / less public but not fully private settings
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aaronpk there are definitely benefits to both
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jgmac1106 jacky yes you could own the group. heck if you look at plumbings of actual one webrings it is often one html tables with links numbered 1 to X.
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jgmac1106 do most people leave u-in-reply-to outside of the content or inside of the content? I ask in terms of syndication the mastodon plugin only syndicates the content of my post, better to fix it in the plugin and leave the reply property outside of e-content?
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aaronpk outside please
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jgmac1106 okay, will look to see if I can include it on syndication
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jacky yeah I learned outside is the way to go
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jacky anything inside e-content isn't really "metadata" per se
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jgmac1106 makes sense there, how do you handle sending a reply post to mastodon?
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jacky the post you'd be replying to would go in the "u-in-reply-to" bit
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jgmac1106 just not syndicate it? like if you replied to a post on my website and syndicated that post to Mastond, people want the link for context
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aaronpk the plugin should be picking up the u-in-reply-to URL and sending it as a reply into mastodon
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aaronpk if it doesn't do that, file a bug
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aaronpk (has no idea what plugin you're talking about)
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jgmac1106 https://github.com/danito/KnownMastodon this one, https://mastodon.social/web/statuses/101692388263078896..wait bigger problems the url only goes to the homepage and not the post
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Loqi [danito] KnownMastodon: Syndicate to Mastodon
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jgmac1106 https://mastodon.social/web/statuses/101692388263078896
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Loqi [Greg McVerry] Great post and gets to. The bigger picture of #OER and #OpenPedagogy. Where are the @creativecommons slack channels archived Love to look through them.
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jgmac1106 https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2019/03/04/great-post-and-gets-to-the-bigger would have been the link, would like the url I am replying to to be included in the toot I am thinking
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Loqi [Greg McVerry] Great post and gets to. The bigger picture of #OER and #OpenPedagogy. Where are the @creativecommons slack channels archived Love to look through them.
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jgmac1106 …but not going to the canonical url of the post needs to be fixed first
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jacky re: private posts
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jacky https://v2.jacky.wtf/post/persona-private-posts
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Loqi [Jacky Alcine] A Persona for Handling Private Posts
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jacky I almost made that a note
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jgmac1106 nica jacky and you brought it back to your invites
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jacky yeah something practical / personal
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jgmac1106 best part is, only people with their own domain can go to Lois’s party
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jacky so like not necessarily
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jacky Lois's site could hold a nickname cache of sorts
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jacky so like if I logged in using some kind of service that allowed me to use Twitter to log in and sent back my Twitter profile URI as the "me" value
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jacky that _could_ work
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jacky granted, it doesn't encourage people to use their own domain
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jacky but it does bridge others outside of the space
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[tantek] yo anyone want to try https://tantek.com/ ?
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tw2113 it loads
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tw2113 otherwise, not sure what i should be checking on :D
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KartikPrabhu [tantek]: I get an "invalid certificatE"
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KartikPrabhu "The certificate is not trusted because it is self-signed."
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tw2113 saw nothing like that
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[tantek] Kartik shift refresh
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[tantek] Thanks tw2113
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tw2113 :thumbsup:
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KartikPrabhu [tantek]: yeah still the same
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gRegorLove lgtm tantek, I get a valid cert from Let's Encrypt
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gRegorLove That first photo is awesome, btw!
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[tantek] Thanks gRegorLove!
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[tantek] Kartik ironically I don't know how to get browsers to release their DNS cache
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KartikPrabhu [tantek]: yeah I think it is DNS. My http cache is disabled for that site for now
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[tantek] It might require quit and relaunch
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jacky tantek++ for HTTPS/TLS!
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Loqi tantek has 25 karma in this channel over the last year (108 in all channels)
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jacky yeah that trail + fog looks amazing
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jacky here's a video demo of openwebauth
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jacky https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7J9BN0z-lLU
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aaronpk is there sound?
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jacky nope
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jacky I watched it thrice not noticing that
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jacky https://web.archive.org/web/20190116101841/https://macgirvin.com/wiki/mike/OpenWebAuth/Home
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Loqi Mike Macgirvin
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aaronpk ok wasn't sure if i was missing something
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aaronpk so if i'm looking at this right, the idea is you visit someone's site and you're logged in already?
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jacky right
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aaronpk it's not clear to me what's happning with the comment thing
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jacky tbh this is like being signed into a reader and viewing one's site as the sole stream
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jacky such that interactions on there look as if it's happening on their "site" (since everyone's site is the same in the realm of UxD)
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aaronpk like was that posting a native comment on the other person's site or was that posting to the commenter's website?
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jacky shrugs
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jacky I think it's viewing the remote site from their own site and commenting to the remote site from their site
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jacky tbh this just reaffirmed two things: people need social readers and people have no problem reinventing wheels lol
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jacky not jabbing
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aaronpk the little i saw about how that magic auth stuff works makes me want to run full speed away from it because it seems to include a lot of crypto stuff in the spec itself
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aaronpk any time you bake crypto into a spec you're giving the spec a finite lifetime because crypto changes
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jacky right
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jacky I'd figure that one could at least specify the kind of crypto used when sending the message
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aaronpk notice how we've been able to keep the underlying crypto of https changing without everyone needing to upgrade their HTML lol
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jacky okay got some more links
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jacky https://zotlabs.com/zap/
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jacky https://framagit.org/zot
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aaronpk ouch that blue
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jacky projects that make 'use' of magicauth/openwebauth
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jacky aaronpk: I said the same thing! lol https://playvicious.social/@jalcine/101696147843459243
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Loqi [Jacky Alciné] @clacke Wow, so that page can make use of https://clrs.cc/ - that blue is VERY harsh
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aaronpk jacky++ i am bookmarking that site
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Loqi jacky has 11 karma in this channel over the last year (46 in all channels)
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jacky it's part of the tachyons suite of thigns
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jacky s/thigns/thing
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jacky http://mrmrs.cc/gradients/ + http://mrmrs.cc/type.css/
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jacky I hope I didn't come off as snarky in my last post
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jacky but I am trying to promote things that are options
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aaronpk is digging up some old notes about indieauth to try to put together a new website about it
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aaronpk found some notes from 2014, hard to believe we've been doing this for so long
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GWG Yes, it is
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aaronpk GWG++ for building the wordpress indieauth plugin
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Loqi GWG has 41 karma in this channel over the last year (168 in all channels)
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GWG aaronpk++ for helping me build the WordPress Indieauth plugin
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Loqi aaronpk has 77 karma in this channel over the last year (261 in all channels)
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aaronpk wonders how quick he can make a nice looking site using https://html5up.net/ and https://icons8.com/ouch
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jacky shouldn't take too long :)
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jacky man that site has a lot of good themes
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aaronpk hm do we have a list of indieauth libraries?
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jacky hm
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jacky https://indieweb.org/IndieAuth#Implementations might list a few
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jacky actually nope seems like the only 'library' approach would be https://indieweb.org/Wordpress_IndieAuth_Plugin for now
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aaronpk those are mostly servers
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aaronpk actually all servers
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aaronpk which is awesome lol
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aaronpk but also we need clients
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jacky https://github.com/kylewm/flask-micropub
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Loqi [kylewm] flask-micropub: Flask extension to support IndieAuth and Micropub clients.
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jacky oh wait no
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jacky https://github.com/mko/passport-indieauth
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Loqi [mko] passport-indieauth: Passport Provider for IndieAuth
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jacky but that README tho
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aaronpk haha
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jacky I haven't finished this yet https://github.com/jalcine/plug-indieauth
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Loqi [jalcine] plug-indieauth: A module for providing IndieAuth endpoints to your Plug application.
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jacky actually that still doesn't play up to spec
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jacky that's a provider
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jacky nukes
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jacky https://github.com/EdwardHinkle/swift-indieweb client (for iOS/Swift)
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Loqi [EdwardHinkle] swift-indieweb: A Swift Framework that supports standard IndieWeb technologies: IndieAuth, Micropub and RelLink Parsing
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aaronpk sweet
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aaronpk also https://packagist.org/packages/indieauth/client (php)
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aaronpk starts a list
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jacky https://github.com/Inklings-io/laravel-indieauth-client
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Loqi [Inklings-io] laravel-indieauth-client: Laravel package to allow others to login via indieauth
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aaronpk hm this list of implementations is messy
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aaronpk and duplicates a lot of stuff
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jacky :(
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jacky is there like things for devise or omniauth?
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jacky (ruby)
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aaronpk I think there is one
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aaronpk that's the kind of thing i'm thinking
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jacky https://github.com/aaronpk/omniauth-indieauth
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jacky ;)
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Loqi [aaronpk] omniauth-indieauth: IndieAuth strategy for OmniAuth
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aaronpk so if someone is like cool how do I let people sign in with indieauth they have a quick path to find a library
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aaronpk oh is that mine? it might be just for indieauth.com
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jacky hmm
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aaronpk oh it lets you swap it out, it's more like a client for something like indielogin.com
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aaronpk but it doesn't do indieauth discovery for example
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aaronpk might be time to fix that
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aaronpk lol last commit is 2014
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aaronpk crap
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jacky five years
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jacky man
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jacky lol
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jacky I think I can write something similar for Elixir
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aaronpk what have I been doing with my life lol
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jacky I'll need it eventually
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aaronpk hey grant made one for javascript https://www.npmjs.com/package/indieauth-authentication
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aaronpk ok I just reorganized the indieauth page a bunch
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aaronpk plz add any more client libraries you know of here https://indieweb.org/IndieAuth#Client_Libraries
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jacky will do
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jacky oh nice
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[tantek] here goes my first post migration post...
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[tantek] and there's the POSSE copy: https://twitter.com/t/status/1102808937521274885
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@t https://tantek.com/ migration complete. Now with #HTTPS! https://tantek.com/t4zK1 (twitter.com/_/status/1102808937521274885)
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[tantek] well that just leaves H2VX. 48hours to fix it for PHP 7.2
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KartikPrabhu [tantek]: confriming it works now
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KartikPrabhu as in "confirmed"
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[tantek] 🎉
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jacky https://twitter.com/samthor/status/1101283110186967042
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@samthor coming soon: a Custom Element that wraps a <textarea> or <input> to enable autocomplete as well as a slew of other features. (yes, this is just commoditizing the http://emojityper.com input box) https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video_thumb/D0iK6U4V4AABavc.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/1101283110186967042)
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jacky hm I have to fix some of my MF2 parsing for reply contexts
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[dominik] Looks like Instagram changed their URLs. Seems like that confuses both OwnYourGram and brid.gy. I'll try to squeeze in some debugging time later and might be able to post a pull request, but I can't promise anything.
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[jeremycherfas] I wonder whether something like Atom’s Teletype Plugin https://teletype.atom.io/ would be an interesting thing for the online IWC
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[grantcodes] Or if you prefer vscode [jeremycherfas] https://visualstudio.microsoft.com/services/live-share/
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jeremycherfas Right; the principle is the same. I'm assuming they don't act as a bridge from one to the other.
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[grantcodes] No, I doubt they would work across editors
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jacky perhaps forgoing that and using something like https://tmate.io/
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jacky *foregoing
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[tantek] [dominik] what happened to IG URLs? Can you summarize?
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[jgmac1106] we tried so hard to add dual coding into Bramble (what Thimble was forked on) got real close when the plug was pulled on the project
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[jgmac1106] there is an odd google doc hack that I think someone connected to GitHub that I have seen teachers use, will have to track it down, they use plain text in a google doc
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[dominik] They seem to have them with and without usernames now: https://www.instagram.com/dominik/p/Bulid-jHiVd/ and https://www.instagram.com/p/Bulid-jHiVd/ point to the same image.
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[dominik] I'm not too sure at which point they show which one and they don't redirect from one to the other.
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[jgmac1106] collaborative cloud coding is totally the future over the local dev environment, espcially watching these kids start on platforms in Kindergarten and pre school, working together will be expectation
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jeremycherfas All very well for people who work in the terminal, jacky
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jacky wow that's a clever trick to flicker out scripts
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jacky jeremycherfas: true
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jacky I remember there being some cross-editor solution
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[tantek] [dominik] ugh that’s annoying. Two URLs for the same resource. Any real canonical linking from one to the other at least?
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[tantek] rel=canonical that is
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jacky that points to the one with the username
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[dominik] Yeah. And the og:url points to the one without.
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jacky LOL
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jacky they really don't care
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[dominik] I think the one with the username is new, I haven't seen that one before.
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[tantek] I haven’t either. They were doing a query string sometimes like ?photo_taken_by=username
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[dominik] Their API seems to return the one with the username.
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snarfed [dominik]: thanks for the heads up! how do the new IG URLs confuse bridgy and OYG?
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[dominik] And of course I spoke too soon - OwnYourGram and brid.gy both use the "old" style URL and it works fine. I had a bit of code that tried something clever with the rel=canonical URL.
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snarfed ah ok
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aaronpk *whew*
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aaronpk OYG doesn't really do anything with the permalinks
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aaronpk XRay on the other hand...
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jacky oy all of this to sign into keybase https://keybase.io/docs/api/1.0/call/login
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aaronpk wait what
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aaronpk they make the app collect the user's password?
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aaronpk "the second round of the protocol, the client computes the password hash"
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aaronpk :smh:
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aaronpk just use oauth come on people
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aaronpk https://github.com/keybase/keybase-issues/issues/831
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Loqi [smichaelsen] #831 Provide oAuth login to keybase API
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jacky five years
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jacky going to punt on that for my MVP
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aaronpk yeah
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jacky b/c that's a wee bit more complexity than I'd like
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aaronpk also don't make people give you their keybase passwords
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aaronpk just ...no
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jacky and I'd have to use client side crypto to satisfy this
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aaronpk you could do what i did with indielogin.com and have them use their pgp key to sign a challenge
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jacky yeah that'd work
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jacky I really wanted keybase in there
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sknebel linked from that issue, a mention of indieauth.com (although only mentioning openid): https://github.com/keybase/keybase-issues/issues/1767#issuecomment-449659436
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Loqi [wiktor-k] I know this issue is super-old but [IndieAuth](https://indieauth.com/pgp) allows signing in to sites with PGP keys. IndieAuth works as an OpenID provider, presents the user with a challenge to sign and after signing confirms the identity (there is ev...
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aaronpk heck keybase could implement indieauth as their OAuth API since users already have URLs on keybase.io and that'd avoid them needing to do client registration for API keys
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jacky I'm down to github, gitlab and itch for relmeauth
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jacky from a list of like 10 services lol
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jacky I could squeeze Twitter in there but I'd be rewriting a URI
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jacky s/URI/URL/g
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[tantek] URL++
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Loqi URL has 1 karma over the last year
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jacky I recently (re-)learned the difference between URN, URI and URL lol
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jacky I kinda want that on a poster to keep in my office
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aaronpk i'm sorry
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jacky lol it wasn't so bad
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[tantek] jacky, URNs are for ashes, and URI just means someone is dating themselves in terms of what decade they learned web architecture. In practice there's no need to refer to anything except URLs
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[tantek] https://url.spec.whatwg.org/
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[schmarty] [jgmac1106]: https://squoosh.app/
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jgmac1106 that was the one, thx
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[schmarty] it's just "a" one. i had it in my pinboard bookmarks.
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[tantek] what is image compression
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "image compression" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "image compression is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[Vincent] [jgmac1106] https://imageoptim.com/ This tool will automatically work out the best compression tool to use for the image type, you dragged on to it. And then apply the compression. If you are willing to wait a bit and turn on Guetzli in the advanced settings it will really squash those JPGs. I try to squash all my images for mobile readers more than anything else
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jacky more into the world of openwebauth (though I might have linked to a rendered form of this): https://framagit.org/zot/zap/blob/dev/spec/OpenWebAuth/Home.md
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[Vincent] image compression is a type of data compression applied to digital images, to reduce their cost for storage or transmission.
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[Vincent] what is image compression
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "image compression" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "image compression is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[Vincent] image compression is a type of data compression applied to digital images, to reduce their cost for storage or transmission.
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Loqi ok
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aaronpk jacky: nice find. that is a way clearer explanation of what's going on
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aaronpk there's still a little bit of handwaving here which i'm not clear on how this actually works in practice
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aaronpk "for an actor to visit another site as an authenticated viewer, he/she first redirects to a service which can create digital signatures on their behalf and which is provided a destination URL"
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aaronpk it is a summary though so that's fine, tho i can't find the actual description of that mechanism
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aaronpk also they seem to punt on key discovery
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aaronpk i can probably sketch out a roughly equivalent version of this using indieauth endpoints
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jacky aaronpk: I think this is the most definitive resource outside of their code
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jacky that said
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jacky I got the domain for the event platform idea
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jacky going to keep it _super_ simple (hopefully)
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jacky not even a ical export lol
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aaronpk oo fun
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aaronpk jacky: there's anothing thing about this openwebauth which I don't like, which is that the site you're logging in to has to accept this "owt" query string parameter on every page
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jacky I think it's an attribute of how Zot works; it's mostly client-side
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aaronpk sure but still
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aaronpk there are ways to use URLs better and reduce the attack surface of your authentication even in client-side apps
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jacky hm those tokens are also tossed often
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jacky yeah I'll just push this into the Wiki in the event someone else comes across it in curiousity
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jacky what is openwebauth
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "openwebauth" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "openwebauth is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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aaronpk ohno lol
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aaronpk our wiki is going to be the first google result for openwebauth so quick
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jacky OpenWebAuth is the authentication protocol utilized by [Zot6 https://framagit.org/zot/zap]; making use of Webfingers, HTTP Signatures and token generation for headless authentication.
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Loqi ok
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jacky aaronpk: lol in this case, people will run away _faster_
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aaronpk ok filled it out a bit more
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jacky oh I need to get on y'all wiki game lol
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jacky gotta work on a 'project' theme
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jacky and a template
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[tantek] Webfingers? Is that what you use to make TCPiramisu? 😉
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[jgmac1106] that is classic
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swentel GWG, pushed new release with checkin post type, so update will ping soon :)
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jgmac1106 stick a minimal h-card button in your rich text or WYSIWYG editor. When you highlight a name and just stick in someone’s url
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@depone @mattmcmanus could you help me out with a link to the recipeyou are using for Instapaper sending out webmentions – https://mcmanus.io/notes/2018/09/11/my-micropub-endpoint-is-now-hit-when-i-like-an-article-in-instapaper #IndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/1103058514300362752)
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@ChrisAldrich ↩️ I think that #PressEdConf19 could be held online and actually use WordPress; it would require participants to be using #IndieWeb philosophies & technology/plugins like Webmention and perhaps one of the more modern feed readers that are using Microsub. https://boffosocko.com/2019/03/05/radio-edutalk-27-02-19-pressed-wordpress-and-education-twitter-conference-edutalk/#I%20think%20that%20such%20a%20conference (twitter.com/_/status/1103060117082107904)
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GWG Just tested a checkin, going to need a PR
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