#dev 2019-03-26

2019-03-26 UTC
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GWG aaronpk: For q=last, what if the last thing uploaded isn't a photo?
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GWG By the way, just implemented Q=last
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[tantek] GWG++ nice work!
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Loqi GWG has 44 karma in this channel over the last year (175 in all channels)
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GWG Adding some query support.
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GWG Do proposed extensions to the micropub media endpoint go in the Github extensions repo, on the extensions page, on the media endpoint page?
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aaronpk use github issues for discussions. as things get solidified we'll work them into the wiki page
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aaronpk if you want you can also add a short summary on the wiki and link out to github for the discussion
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[tantek] aaronpk I think that flow needs a bit better documentation / overview. GitHub issues -> Wiki page -> Spec
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[tantek] I think someone mentioned recently having to check three places as a Micropub developer
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aaronpk tbh there should be enough documentation that a developer writing a micropub server or client should be reading the spec only as a last resort
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[tantek] whoa I'd almost see it as the opposite, that a micropub developer could read the spec, then work their way through test cases to implement, and not have to reference any side-docs beyond that
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aaronpk eh, I write HTML all the time and I've never read the HTML spec
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[tantek] because you've already learned it
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aaronpk and I certainly didn't learn it by reading the spec
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[tantek] sure, it was written (originally) back in the day when specs were like academic outlines
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[tantek] very different from how W3C and other specs are written today
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aaronpk i'm all for specs being readable and everything, but I dont think developers should be expected to start there
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[tantek] they are, for interop
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aaronpk *start*
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aaronpk once you need to get into the nitty gritty then sure they can go read the spec
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[tantek] e.g. browser implementers *must* read the HTML spec very carefully to implement things interoperably
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aaronpk but that shouldn't be the entry point. you should be able to write a functional basic implementation from other less spec-like documentation
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[tantek] ok I could accept that for a "getting started" tutorial for minimal basic functionality
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[tantek] ideally the spec *is* that minimal documentation required for interop
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[tantek] anyway the context of the discussion I referenced wasn't a *new* implementation, but rather getting details right for an existing implementation
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[tantek] I think there was some confusion about how "drafts" should work, as a feature, especially across a mix of mp clients and servers that don't all support it
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[tantek] I'm just the messenger in this example, not yet at the point of coding that with Micropub. I'll get there eventually now that I have https. 🙂
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[eddie] I think that flow is good, GitHub Issues (discussion), Wiki (coalesce from the issues), Spec after wide enough adoption.
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[eddie] I think a benefit to that would be once there has been 1-2 instances of people building based on GitHub issues, it should definitely get a stub on the wiki
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[eddie] That would allow a situation like the one tantek is talking about (essentially someone like manton saying, I want to build a drafts feature, how do I do that?). In that case the person can check the wiki extensions page
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[eddie] Right now there is a Micropub brainstorm page, a Micropub extensions page, the GitHub issues and the spec. So having a page that you arrive at (Micropub extensions) that lists details for active extensions and stubs for prototype extensions would be great
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ For third party open badges. @badgrteam is best. Their values align most with mine. I have been experimenting with webmention badges so I can do it all from own domain and student blogs. Would work with blogspot. I hate att the WordPress… https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2019/03/26/wfryer-for-third-party-open-badges-badgrteam (twitter.com/_/status/1110490980250206208)
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@voxpelli ↩️ True, I myself wonder what I should do with my IndieWeb WebMention endpoint, https://webmention.herokuapp.com/ It’s great to be able to offer such capabilities as a service, but it opens one up to problems like this and it’s not really feasible to have everyone self-host everything (twitter.com/_/status/1110494524411953157)
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Zegnat voxpelli: what part of the webmention receiver do you think will be affected by art 13?
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voxpelli Zegnat: it’s especially article 11 that’s an issue when it comes to that I think
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voxpelli In article 13 I guess it could be an issue if one hosts images or other content scraped from those sites - unsure whether that transfers the liability to the WebMention endpoint
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voxpelli But as article 11 will make it very hard to show any link previews/scraped content at all
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Zegnat I wouldn’t say so, unless that is what the endpoint is actually doing. If you are just validating URLs, that is not a problem.
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Zegnat art 11 is an interesting case though ...
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voxpelli Article 11 will make it very hard to show link previews/scraped content - and that’s pretty much 50% of what the
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voxpelli Webmention endpoint does
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voxpelli (The other 50% being validating that the mention is valid)
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voxpelli And in doing the link preview an endpoint will host text excerpts, images etc that they have scraped from the sender, to ensure privacy, performance and security
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Zegnat Yeah, if your service is being the provider of link previews that may be a problem. hmm
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Zegnat On the other hand, you could also sell webmentions as a service for those who want to police art 11 ;) You will know when someone has linked to you
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@voxpelli ↩️ The carve-outs are time limited to 2-3 years though if I remember correctly, and my webmention service is definitely older than that :P (twitter.com/_/status/1110497018894532608)
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Zegnat wonders how hard it would be to convince work to accept webmentions
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GWG Morning
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Loqi greetings human
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GWG Re Micropub extensions, I guess I should document q=last on the issues and such
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[Rose] Good morning Loqi and indieweb people
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voxpelli And now article 11 and 13 has been voted through in the EU :(
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@freshyill ↩️ Yes! Looks like I got that cdevroe bump! Also… Webmention is in my backlog… what else should I be looking into, indieweb-feature-wise? (twitter.com/_/status/1110539486386114561)
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@c2dev2 ↩️ Haha. It isn't like getting Fireballed. :) I would do: - basic h-feed support in HTML - webmention - indieauth I don't POSSE anymore really (most of my stuff goes to http://Micro.blog, some also to Mastodon, but that is it). Too much to keep up with. (twitter.com/_/status/1110571740281954305)
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GWG aaronpk, if you don't remove the queried last image, it will post, correct?
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GWG In Quill, sorry
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aaronpk yes, it's like a shortcut to fill in that field automatically
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aaronpk my media endpoint only returns the last upload if it's within about 5 minutes of it being created
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GWG Okay, that explains it
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GWG I think that needs some clarification
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GWG I'll open it on the Micropub extensions issue tracker
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aaronpk great
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GWG aaronpk, how do we get extensions into the spec? The question manton asked... what finalizes it?
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GWG Same as Microformats?
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aaronpk yeah i think that makes sense
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aaronpk or, we don't change the spec, and instead publish new specs as extensions
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aaronpk when it makes sense i think that's a better option
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aaronpk partly because we can't change this anymore https://www.w3.org/TR/micropub/
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aaronpk so i'd like to reduce the amount of changes needed to the core spec unless it's absolutely necessary
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GWG aaronpk, I just want a process of some sort to say things aren't experimental
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GWG Otherwise people never feel comfortable with them
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aaronpk the whole internet is a giant experiment ;-)
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aaronpk we'll see if it sticks
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GWG https://github.com/indieweb/micropub-extensions/issues/10
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Loqi [dshanske] #10 q=last on media endpoint
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GWG I have more thoughts there
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[eddie] !tell grantcodes Does Together support the Micropub Query for Support Vocabulary? (https://indieweb.org/Micropub-extensions#Query_for_Supported_Vocabulary) I thought I remembered you mentioning it at one point, but I can't remember
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[grantcodes] Hmm I don't think so
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Loqi [grantcodes]: [eddie] left you a message 4 minutes ago: Does Together support the Micropub Query for Support Vocabulary? (https://indieweb.org/Micropub-extensions#Query_for_Supported_Vocabulary) I thought I remembered you mentioning it at one point, but I can't remember
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[grantcodes] It might check for supported post types?
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[eddie] That's what this is. The config query provides what post types the server supports
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[eddie] !tell swentel Does Indigenous for Android (and IndieWeb Drupal module) support the Micropub post visibility property? https://indieweb.org/Micropub-extensions#Visibility I think I remember you mentioning that but, not 100% sure
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[jgmac1106] !tell grantcodes, mblaney we did not win the Mozilla Responsible Computer Science Award will loop you both into next grant https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2019/03/26/didnt-win-mozilla-responsible-computer-science-challenge-makes-me-0
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi [Greg McVerry] Didn't win @mozilla Responsible Computer Science Challenge makes me $0 out of $1.59 million on the year with another 200k pending....crappy ...
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jacky just noticing how "simple" it might be to sync browser bookmarks with one's own site bookmarks
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Loqi jacky: Zegnat left you a message 1 day, 8 hours ago: for extracting author (and more) from all sorts of pages you may want to look at some prior art here: https://github.com/zotero/translators - basically extractors for different websites!
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jacky wow I got pings everywhere
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jacky ah everything's in javascript
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jacky D: D:
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jacky is spending a lot of time on browser extensions in the upcoming months
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jacky https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Add-ons/WebExtensions/API/identity is a _thing_ I didn't know of
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GWG Evening
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mblaney
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Loqi mblaney: [jgmac1106] left you a message 3 hours, 26 minutes ago: we did not win the Mozilla Responsible Computer Science Award will loop you both into next grant https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2019/03/26/didnt-win-mozilla-responsible-computer-science-challenge-makes-me-0
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mblaney thanks for letting me know jgmac1106
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mblaney hi GWG
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GWG mblaney, another punt for SimplePie
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mblaney oh yeah?
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GWG Yuphttps://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/36669#comment:19
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GWG Frustrating
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mblaney rmccue was the previous SimplePie maintainer, a shame he hasn't jumped in on that thread yet.
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GWG [eddie]: Thanks for the assist
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GWG mblaney, I know. All he has to do is say... it's been 3 years and I've commented 0 times. Assign it to someone else
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mblaney can someone else say that and make it happen?
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GWG I can say it, but I am not sure anyone cares
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mblaney probably still worth giving it a go with the new interest.
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mblaney in happier news, looks like I'm coming over for the summit again :-)
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mblaney are you staying at the same place GWG?
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GWG mblaney, yes. Will be happy to discuss in chat or meta. Still need a roommate
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mblaney will move to chat
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[jgmac1106] mblaney I will get one to hit eventually. We will hit
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[jgmac1106] The hotel [chrisaldrich] and I stayed in was quite and affordable
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